Yeah maybe we have been too hasty
Maguire | he stays!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Yeah, hopefully after this summer (& with the team continuing on an upward trajectory this coming season) we’d have cleared out most of our overpaid deadwood and the teams value/earnings would at least resemble some par against their achievements.
Which is weird really, however much we have paid for him doesn't dictate the current market. Keeping him also means we are paying his wages that is above average. It's like a fancy car if you don't use it anymore better to sell it because the cost of maintenance + tax will only add up and the value will go down year by year.
I think so too. Maguire's value will go down further next year as he'll be 31 and approaching 32... add to that is the minimum gametime he'd have had by then. He'll be in decline to the eyes of most club due to lack of gametime+his age.
Yeah we definitely need to improve in that aspect
One of United's strengths is the defence, Maguire adds depth and would need replacing if he was sold...so you don't sell him on the cheap!
It's not about overrating. These are basic functions in a side. A fast mobile one and your header more physical one is as old as the back 4 itself. Maguire requires a mobile CB to do the jobs he's not equipped for. It's not a revelatory statement.
You put both CB's high up the pitch and isolated against a rapid forward and it's only one of them it's going to have been foolhardy to do with.
Zouma's attributes are invaluable to West Ham for affording them flexibility.
The reason we finished in 14th was a terrible first half of the season with an utterly dysfunctional midfield (Rice surging forwards left Soucek in a role he is relatively poor at due to his passing skills) Paqueta not knowing what to do due to this also. When we pulled back into a more standard setup in the 2nd half, we were 10th for the 2nd half of the season.
Our defense also lacked both Zouma and Aguerd at times last season due to early injuries. Once they came together we tightened up again.
Maguire may or may not be a little better than West Ham defenders (but its not clear cut as some say) but when your having to spend 60m on wages+fee, I want something beyond a little better in a position that we already have relative strength, especially when we have a somewhat limited budget due to ffp with large gaps that need filling first.
What should we sell him for?
I mean Maguire will know the score now, he isn't top dog anymore, and is 4th choice CB, if he's happy with that then fair enough, I'd rather we have him coming on as a sub, or as back up when others are injuryed than plently of others.
I just get the impression that a high end new CB isn't in the plan this window, so some budget buy, or Weghorst type defender loan signing isn't very appealing.
I just get the impression that a high end new CB isn't in the plan this window, so some budget buy, or Weghorst type defender loan signing isn't very appealing.
We can still hold out for as much as possible and not just jump at someone’s first offer.
Or you sell your 5th-6th ranked CB "cheaply" and you replace him with a player that is a gamble with upside. The alternative being that you keep the player, don't get 20m for him, pay his higher wages and replace within 24 months without the 20m-25m that you rejected.
Let's hope the come back with 25. And let's hope we accept it. If we don't, we risk losing 40 millions for our 5th choice. Let's not repeat the Romero mistake.
If a better offer comes in sure, but I’m really sceptical about it. We have a short window left to sell him for something. Otherwise if the window closes and we’re stuck with him his value will approach ground zero and on top of that with a new ball playing keeper and probably even more proactive approach from the back, not only his value will nosedive further but he will cost us points.
20m for him in this market and considering all the other factors around him and other defenders that changed clubs in the last year or two is pretty fair value for me.
I'd hope everyone on the Cafe would see £20 million as a joke.
The counter argument about his high wages is also daft imo, as when does the selling club care about wages, its not United's problem.
To answer your question, I think around 30-35 would be reasonable, the English tax exists for everyone not just the Top 6.
That’s what I was going to mention earlier, it’s not just us who should have to pay the English tax, and wages, it’s down to the buying club to worry about that. They know the situation when they enter their bids.
Club would probably want £40-50m to sell him in cuckoo land. West Ham bid £20m.
Obviously price belongs in the middle. Cant expect more than £30m for a 4th choice player on top 20 players in the league level wages
Obviously price belongs in the middle. Cant expect more than £30m for a 4th choice player on top 20 players in the league level wages
We should take 20 if that is all that is offered. He won't play unless we have meaningless games, and his value will only continue to decrease if we don't shift him this window. He's also costing the club 10 million a year on wages to warm the bench.
He was good enough 7 years ago and still is now at a push
We have to take into account his wages. Westham's highest earner gets about 150k a week and this guy is around 200k. Will he accept to take a paycut for more game time. To shift him we have to compromise on the fee. I think difference is split at 30m and every is happy.
His career is starting to look really crap.
The tax exists when there are potential buyers and for players on an upward trajectory. So far Maguire only has one which is Westham and theyre not even serious about it hence the 20m. Its not like we have a bidding war, everyone knows the manager doesnt fancy him and he is a hard to sell player. Chances are next season its gonna be harder to find potential buyers. So we will probably sell him for a decent value but the tax? Forget about that. Whatever fee hes going to be let go for will be a dwarf compared to the amount we spent for him, it will be closer to his actual value. You do realise we got Mount for 55m right? Sometimes circumstances play a part. Its not always "sell high because english".
I don't think United are desperate to sell tbh...only City and Newcastle conceded fewer goals in the league last year.
Why weaken the team by selling Maguire on the cheap? Makes zero sense.
Not really, no. We have a strong manager now who won't play players based on their price tag or salary or deemed status.
Think he’s a straight loss for the club at 20m because of amortization no?
If we don’t buy anybody to replace him and don’t have to subsidize his wage then it will be a small ish profit I think. For transfer fee alone yes it will be a £7m loss, but his book value also includes his ~ £10m wage.
That being said, still a shit deal. West Ham has the money, they can at least fork out 10m more.
Yes, Evans is more useful than Maguire.
Its a tough one to call but sure, if he was willing to fill such a role I think he'd be ideal. He does strike me as someone who's better when playing every week though, so were I him / his representative I'd be suggesting moving to a Fulham / Lazio type club.
Tough call. I'd much prefer seeing him on the teamsheet than McTom.
Fair play. I'm damaged from years of bad negotiation but to be fair, he's a very valuable player for lower down teams.£25m is not outrageous.
No he doesn't
Am I the only one don't mind Maguire to remain at the club if the only offer we could get is 20M from WH?
Let's not forget Martinez and Varane are both injury prone as per their records last season (not so much for Martinez). Then we are left with Lindelof and Shaw. But we need Shaw at LB.
As many had said, with Onana playing high line sweeper roles it could also help Maguire. I think we need a CB if Maguire leave and 20M can't get you a decent CB like Maguire for replacement.
We will also again have like 60 us game next season?
Let's not forget Martinez and Varane are both injury prone as per their records last season (not so much for Martinez). Then we are left with Lindelof and Shaw. But we need Shaw at LB.
As many had said, with Onana playing high line sweeper roles it could also help Maguire. I think we need a CB if Maguire leave and 20M can't get you a decent CB like Maguire for replacement.
We will also again have like 60 us game next season?
You're forgetting the amount of bad press we get because the media like their English players and Maguire himself doesn't help giving 100 interviews per season.
We need to bin him and get a CB ready to step in a few years or challenge the starting XI. Kim Minh Jae would have been perfect but now he's gone to Bayern, we can try to get some other promising CB in.
I don't see 20m as a joke; I see Maguire's wages reflective to his quality as a joke.
No, his wages are not a 'daft' argument. Most players (most people) will not accept wage cuts, even if they're already rich. This obviously limits his transfer value because mid table teams (Maguire's level) cannot afford large transfer fees AND high salaries. Especially for an aging player with no sell on value.
Name me a player over 30 purchased by a mid table club for over 30m on over 180k pw? I'll wait...
This is one transfer that doesn't really bother me. His replacement will be pretty much the same package (higher fees + lower wages). He stays he will be 4th CB at the club and might miss out for England. If he leaves great good luck to him. He is not the team captain anymore so doesnt really bother me.
Then West Ham can't afford him...tough shit! its not United's problem.
Again I'll say it, United had the 3rd best defensive record last year, you don't turn a strength into a weakness, just to flog a player at bargain bin prices.
The same posters saying to get rid of Maguire will be the first to moan when United get ripped off overpaying for his replacement.
Isn’t Jonny Evans in line for that gig?
Jonny Evans on a free will do as 3rd choice rcb, 4th choice lcb. I think we should get Maguire off of the wage bill.
It is United's problem because no one else seems to want him, and we want rid of him.
It's not the worst idea to keep Maguire if we can't get a reasonable fees for England international first choice CB.
We need cover for CB and if Maguire left we will also need to spend the money on his replacement.
We need cover for CB and if Maguire left we will also need to spend the money on his replacement.
Seems unlikely to me he'll leave this summer. West Ham might be in for him but seems like they'll go for McTominay.
I was frustrated about Maguire situation but do agree with you now. De Gea left and that means we don't have to pay for his huge wages anymore so Maguire as a 3rd/4th choice and not him not being captain anymore is a different situation. I'd even say Maguire could have a solid season now without a pressure of being United captain and having better GK behind him passing wise.
Football is not a 'normal' job though.
Maguire will have to take a wage cut if he wants to extend his international career,
Newcastle paid very close to £30m for a 30 year old Chris Wood the other year, only for Wood to then take a pay cut to join Forest.
He probably won’t, hence the bid being £20m.