Foreign secretary advice to LGBT fans.... Be respectful

[Drawfull]

Obviously those brown lives lost are not very important for the media here.

Those lives lost (and the treatment of the workers in general) have been at the absolute forefront of all coverage of the problems with having the WC in Qatar that I've seen. Moreso than the LGBT problems, which granted are being given more airtime now the tournament's around the corner.

But in a wider context, yes, Middle East problems are treated with less importance than say stuff happening on the West's doorstep but I don't think that's unfair. Should The Guardian, for example, provide live coverage of the war in Ukraine for its Australian (or indeed, west-coast American) readership? Or does it accept that interest levels drop the further you are away from the problem? The world's a big place, and we all have our own issues which in turn prioritises the stories most newsworthy to the audience.

 

[The Boy]

Those lives lost (and the treatment of the workers in general) have been at the absolute forefront of all coverage of the problems with having the WC in Qatar that I've seen. Moreso than the LGBT problems, which granted are being given more airtime now the tournament's around the corner.

But in a wider context, yes, Middle East problems are treated with less importance than say stuff happening on the West's doorstep but I don't think that's unfair. Should The Guardian, for example, provide live coverage of the war in Ukraine for its Australian (or indeed, west-coast American) readership? Or does it accept that interest levels drop the further you are away from the problem? The world's a big place, and we all have our own issues which in turn prioritises the stories most newsworthy to the audience.

It's a good point, when I worked as a journalist in the UK, one of the very first things I was told was ...

"an earthquake in Iran killing tens of thousands versus a nurse killed on the streets of Manchester, the nurse story should always get the higher billing"

 

[HTG]

Blame FIFA then. FIFA goes where who pays them the most money.

Can Singapore host an event as per your criteria? Carrying drugs is capital punishment there.

What about India? Sedition is a crime there.

China? Lots of archaic laws curtailing human rights and committing genocide in Uighur.

What about the US? Adultery is still a crime in some states.

Also the US and it’s allies committed war crimes and human rights violations in both Afghanistan and Iraq and got away scot-free. Why is that acceptable?

I shed tears for the migrant workers who died by the thousands in 40+ heat in modern slavery conditions in Qatar to construct these stadiums, with no choice available to them compared to football fans who are being asked to follow the "rules" of the host nation and will leave in a couple of weeks. Obviously those brown lives lost are not very important for the media here.

I too think we should play out discriminated people against each other. That’s a reasonable and fair approach. You want rights for queer people? In that case modern slavery is somehow your fault and I’m blaming you for it.
By the way, discriminating against those migrant workers is part of the very same culture and laws that discriminate against queer people. Both are symptoms of the same issue. It’s not about one or the other. It’s about both issues.
So criticising one of these things while telling other people to just suck it down and get over themselves shows that you seem to be very selective in the kind of laws that you want people to adhere to. Because these dead migrant workers, these slaves, are legal. So I wonder why you think about them as an issue, but queer people should just follow the law.
Sounds almost as if you just don’t give a shit about queer rights.

 

[Wibble]

The propaganda in the West is breathtaking. No country is perfect and that includes those in the North West. We'd have boycott every world cup otherwise.

What part of the criticism is propaganda? Their homo/transphobic laws? The abysmal treatment of foreign workers?

Data and reporting is probably better now but death and injuries to foreign workers from place like India, Philippines, Pakistan and Bangladesh have historically be massively under reported through the Gulf states.

This dock accident was officially reported as killing 29 people when I lived there and the real figure was nearly 100 higher. A friend was on duty at the hospital at the time and counted the bodies.

https://gulfnews.com/today-history/march-27-2002-29-killed-in-dubai-drydocks-accident-1.2000654

 

[Wibble]

It's a good point, when I worked as a journalist in the UK, one of the very first things I was told was ...

"an earthquake in Iran killing tens of thousands versus a nurse killed on the streets of Manchester, the nurse story should always get the higher billing"

I don't think it happens as much now but I remember that in the 70's even the BBC, when reporting on big events like massive overseas earthquakes, reported 10's of thousands and deaths quickly and followed by how may English speaking people were killed (or something like that).

 

[JagUTD]

It's quite obvious the advice is being given so people can avoid the very real risk of being arrested and jailed. Because once that happens, well, there's not a whole lot that can be done.

And really the advice should be to everyone, because these places will quite happily jail you for any sort of public affection. In fact, the advice should be not to travel at all.

People might think the World Cup and the attention it brings will protect them, but take a quick look at the last few world cups and ask yourselves, what positive influences did the World Cup bring to South Africa, Brazil and Russia?

 

[LoneStar]

Imagine telling someone to be respectful and mindful of their custom/culture when going to another person's house. And that being considered controversial....

Who is it that is forcing these people who are offended to go to Qatar? If you don't want to watch it, don't watch it. No one cares. If anything blame Fifa, since they awarded Qatar with the world cup.

While human rights should be a fundamental right to everyone, it's hilarious how the West choose to single out certain countries while being okay with all the other atrocities, as long as they benefit from it. Bunch of fecking hypocrites.

 

[HTG]

Imagine telling someone to be respectful and mindful of their custom/culture when going to another person's house. And that being considered controversial....

Who is it that is forcing these people who are offended to go to Qatar? If you don't want to watch it, don't watch it. No one cares. If anything blame Fifa, since they awarded Qatar with the world cup.

While human rights should be a fundamental right to everyone, it's hilarious how the West choose to single out certain countries while being okay with all the other atrocities, as long as they benefit from it. Bunch of fecking hypocrites.

What about the players and personell of the teams who have to go there for their job? They can’t just stay at home. They aren’t being accommodated by the hosts. They can’t choose. They simply have to suffer discrimination.
People aren’t bad guests. Qatar is just an incredibly shitty host.
People who make claims like these are just ok with what Qatar is doing and can’t be bothered about queer people. And they don’t give a shit about culture. They just like to see the discrimination. They aren’t pro culture, law or religion. They are pro discrimination and homophobia. That’s about it.

 

[Marwood]

Imagine telling someone to be respectful and mindful of their custom/culture when going to another person's house. And that being considered controversial....

Who is it that is forcing these people who are offended to go to Qatar? If you don't want to watch it, don't watch it. No one cares. If anything blame Fifa, since they awarded Qatar with the world cup.

While human rights should be a fundamental right to everyone, it's hilarious how the West choose to single out certain countries while being okay with all the other atrocities, as long as they benefit from it. Bunch of fecking hypocrites.

You go to someone's house and they're being physically abusive to their children.

What do you do? Respect the culture of the house and ignore it?

 

[Siorac]

It would be counter productive but you do you I guess.

Counter-productive to what?

Hosting a World Cup isn't some sort of divine right. There are many countries that will never get to host one, regardless of human rights, simply because they are too small/poor/lacking in infrastructure.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Speak for yourself. It wasn't fine.

Didn't see any countries threatening to boycott it, wearing shirts in protest for it, cities refusing to broadcast matches in public because of it. So yes, there is a big racist element in this.

Oh and this doesn't add that Russia had already invaded and taken over Crimea before then and were in a war over eastern Ukraine.

 

[Wumminator]

fecking hell,

The amount of people justifying horrendous homophobia by saying “it’s their culture” is ridiculous.

I’ve seen a poster in this thread basically say “no one complained about Russia” when he’s the one going to Qatar.

Whole thing is a joke. I’d be banning some of the bad faith actors in this thread.

 

[Siorac]

Those lives lost (and the treatment of the workers in general) have been at the absolute forefront of all coverage of the problems with having the WC in Qatar that I've seen. Moreso than the LGBT problems, which granted are being given more airtime now the tournament's around the corner.

And those issues were downplayed by exactly the same kind of people who are in this thread assuring us that everything is perfectly fine and if you don't like it, don't go.

 

[LoneStar]

You go to someone's house and they're being physically abusive to their children.

What do you do? Respect the culture of the house and ignore it?

These kind of shitty comparisons serve no purpose at all. Are you really equating no PDA to child abuse? Why stop there? The hosts could be Nazi war criminals in a cult killing babies.

 

[Tarrou]

Didn't see any countries threatening to boycott it, wearing shirts in protest for it, cities refusing to broadcast matches in public because of it. So yes, there is a big racist element in this.

Oh and this doesn't add that Russia had already invaded and taken over Crimea before then and were in a war over eastern Ukraine.

this might jog your memory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2018_FIFA_World_Cup_controversies

 

[Marwood]

These kind of shitty comparisons serve no purpose at all. Are you really equating no PDA to child abuse? Why stop there? The hosts could be Nazi war criminals in a cult killing babies.

Well you drew the comparison to going to somebody's house. I'm absolutely comparing punishment for being gay to child abuse. Both are abuse. If you see either, you should say something. Not stay quiet because you're "in their house."

 

[hasanejaz88]

this might jog your memory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2018_FIFA_World_Cup_controversies

Give me examples of teams actively protesting the world cup during qualifiers, like many did. Or major cities in France and Germany refusing to have public viewings of matches. Or teams changing they kit to protest the tournament.

This whole media criticizing is nonsense and has no weight compared to what's happening now, there have been much higher calls for teams to boycott this tournament than Russia.

 

[Siorac]

this might jog your memory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2018_FIFA_World_Cup_controversies

The "why wasn't Russia criticised?!?!?!??" angle is possibly the very worst take in a thread full of absolutely hideous ones. "You're racist because of something that I made up and has zero factual basis".

 

[RoyH1]

It's crazy to read a British foreign secretary saying this. "Don't do gay things, luv!"

 

[Tarrou]

Give me examples of teams actively protesting the world cup during qualifiers, like many did during qualifiers. Or major cities in France and Germany refusing to have public viewings of matches. Or teams changing they kit to protest the tournament.

This whole media criticizing is nonsense and has no weight compared to what's happening now, there have been much higher calls for teams to boycott this tournament than Russia.

why do I need to give specifics that are exactly the same?

there was a shit-tonne of blow-back about that world cup as that link shows, and attempting to claim otherwise is just plain disingenuous

it probably makes sense that there is more calls to boycott this one anyway

- it's being hosted in a non-football country
- they had to move it to the winter and disrupt everyones seasons
- the laws in Qatar are even more draconian than Russia

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Give me examples of teams actively protesting the world cup during qualifiers, like many did during qualifiers. Or major cities in France and Germany refusing to have public viewings of matches. Or teams changing they kit to protest the tournament.

This whole media criticizing is nonsense and has no weight compared to what's happening now, there have been much higher calls for teams to boycott this tournament than Russia.

Almost as though there are more/better reasons to protest this WC than there was to protest against Russia at the time…

 

[jeepers]

Yeah I hope they are foolish enough to go there and stand up to the government. PDA is feckin disgusting, regardless of whether it’s a straight or LGBTQ+ couple doing it.

I was in Tokyo pre-covid queueing up for one of my favourite ramen places and this couple (obviously tourists) a few spots ahead started sucking each others’ faces off and it completely ruined my appetite and my day.

 

[hasanejaz88]

why do I need to give specifics that are exactly the same?

there was a shit-tonne of blow-back about that world cup as that link shows, and attempting to claim otherwise is just plain disingenuous

it probably makes sense that there is more calls to boycott this one anyway

- it's being hosted in a non-football country
- they had to move it to the winter and disrupt everyones seasons
- the laws in Qatar are even more draconian than Russia

Almost as though there are more/better reasons to protest this WC than there was to protest against Russia at the time…

Yes because invading sovereign countries, murdering innocent people and supporting tyrants in others countries certainly weights less than having to play the world cup in the country of the current Asian Cup champions in December

That's why I suppose everyone will celebrate the next world cup being played in the US.

 

[Siorac]

Almost as though there are more/better reasons to protest this WC than there was to protest against Russia at the time…

Well, I'm not sure about better, at least from a human rights point of view. In an ideal world, the occupation would have seen Russia immediately stripped of the right to host the World Cup. And their "gay propaganda" laws are pretty fecking abhorrent even if not quite on the level of Qatar.

There are better reasons to protest it from a football perspective - disrupting a season for no reason other than giving it to a country where the weather is unbearable in the summer - but this thread isn't about that.

But again, the whole premise that there weren't serious criticism or calls for boycott against Russia is just straight-up false. It isn't true. At all.

 

[Wumminator]

Yeah I hope they are foolish enough to go there and stand up to the government. PDA is feckin disgusting, regardless of whether it’s a straight or LGBTQ+ couple doing it.

I was in Tokyo pre-covid queueing up for one of my favourite ramen places and this couple (obviously tourists) a few spots ahead started sucking each others’ faces off and it completely ruined my appetite and my day.

What the feck are some of you people on?

 

[Drawfull]

It's crazy to read a British foreign secretary saying this. "Don't do gay things, luv!"

What was he supposed to say?

 

[HTG]

What the feck are some of you people on?

It’s called homophobia.

 

[Marwood]

What was he supposed to say?

He could remind people that there are risks with being openly gay. I think that would be fair.

He probably shouldn't instruct people to temporarily turn off who they inherently are. Nor did he need that slightly pro Qatar, sympathetic to them angle he seemed to have.

 

[moses]

If you're entering a country you have to respect its laws unless you want to be behind bars. Whatever those laws may be. It's moronic to do otherwise. So that statement is perfectly fine.

People know what laws are. The statement was tone deaf. It was legitimising the codifying of discrimination.

 

[Adisa]

Thank God the General Forum and Current Event forum don't have a lot of active members on the football forum cause this thread is a cesspit.
Just one question, should a gay footballer be allowed to kiss his partner at the world cup?

If you choose to host an international tournament then you have an obligation to accept some universal norms of visitors. It's not a two way compromise where you meet half way on discrimination, the host has to align.

James Cleverley could easily have said we except people to be respectful of local culture but at the same time discrimination shouldn't and won't be accepted. It's not difficult is it, why he choose to not take a firm stance says more about the Tory party right now.

Thread should have ended here.

 

[moses]

Didn't see any countries threatening to boycott it, wearing shirts in protest for it, cities refusing to broadcast matches in public because of it. So yes, there is a big racist element in this.

Oh and this doesn't add that Russia had already invaded and taken over Crimea before then and were in a war over eastern Ukraine.

Have you really never seen criticism of Russia's LGBT policies? That's quite strange.

 

[Bole Top]

There are certain rules and laws in the country; if not observed, one gets punished. if you do not like it, do not go there. if you want to boycott it, then do so. Any national team can decide not to travel there if it's a major problem. Any country can stop any relations with Qatar if they wish to do so.

it isn't, that's the thing. even the gay players themselves wouldn't refuse to participate. hell, just recently there was an interview with one of them from MLS and he said he would have no problem with going to Qatar. and the other one, from Australia, said he dreams to play in Qatar regardless.

histerical online community have more problems with Qatar as a country than actual participants. business as usual on internet, not that I'm surprised.

 

[JinnerJamie]

I think his wording was wrong but his intentions were noble enough.

As an openly gay man myself, if I were to be going to this World Cup (I’m not) I wouldn’t respect their laws but I would follow them. I think everybody should look into the background of any country they’re travelling to be that laws, traditions and values so that you can have as safe as possible trip.

 

[HTG]

Thank God the General Forum and Current Event forum don't have a lot of active members on the football forum cause this thread is a cesspit.
Just one question, should a gay footballer be allowed to kiss his partner at the world cup?


Thread should have ended here.

People are going to say they shouldn’t because that’s the law. And if we learned one thing from nazi Germany, it’s that the law is always good and just.

If straight players had some balls, they’d kiss each other as a sign of protest. They obviously won’t.

 

[moses]

it isn't, that's the thing. even the gay players themselves wouldn't refuse to participate. hell, just recently there was an interview with one of them from MLS and he said he would have no problem with going to Qatar. and the other one, from Australia, said he dreams to play in Qatar regardless.

histerical online community have more problems with Qatar as a country than actual participants. business as usual on internet, not that I'm surprised.

So name a few gay players we will see there.

 

[moses]

I think his wording was wrong but his intentions were noble enough.

As an openly gay man myself, if I were to be going to this World Cup (I’m not) I wouldn’t respect their laws but I would follow them. I think everybody should look into the background of any country they’re travelling to be that laws, traditions and values so that you can have as safe as possible trip.

Exactly. It goes without saying we obey laws unless we want to suffer the punishment. Its the idea we should respect the law that is ridiculous.

 

[Bole Top]

So name a few gay players we will see there.

I can only name gay players who openly said they would go if they were called.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Thank God the General Forum and Current Event forum don't have a lot of active members on the football forum cause this thread is a cesspit.
Just one question, should a gay footballer be allowed to kiss his partner at the world cup?


Thread should have ended here.

If hes doing it in public?

No.

And thats because PUBLIC DISPLAYS OF AFFECTION ARE ILLEGAL IN QATAR.

Seems like (as usual) most of the posters are just here to get offended or looking to be offended.

If its such and issue boycott the World Cup, are any of the posters on here actually

You want to go there then you have to respect their laws, if you don’t then guess what we will read about you in the Sun/DM and you can be all outraged then.

 

[moses]

I can only name gay players who openly said they would go if they were called.

So none.

And the reason nobody will boycott is money and sponsorship. They are ignoring the situation, not agreeing with it.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Didn't see any countries threatening to boycott it, wearing shirts in protest for it, cities refusing to broadcast matches in public because of it. So yes, there is a big racist element in this.

Oh and this doesn't add that Russia had already invaded and taken over Crimea before then and were in a war over eastern Ukraine.

Oh stop with the Russia sht. Its a straw man argument. Two wrongs dont make a right. We are talking about this World cup. You can do this sht for anything. Ok I murdered her but what about the Iraq War? How many people did they kill? Sure I stole from the kid but is that really as bad as what Weinstein did? Stop moving the argument. Its small minded logic. Yeah Russia are fk heads and yeah the world cup shouldn't have been held there but Quatar are fk heads too and we are talking about them now