Why can't you answer his question?
Religion, what's the point?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Why can't you answer his question?
No problem I’m not offended, people have different believe systems I get it I’m not here trying to convert anyone just giving a different view, thank you as well for not patronising me.
There is many different ways to do evil, you would know when you do. I am no saint not by any means but I would know if my intentions were evil.
Thanks. I enjoy learning new stuff.
But, again, nothing bad can be done in the name of religion?
And yet you've almost certainly at some point in your life done something that Christians of the past would consider evil.
Missed the AM Radio the first time. How fecking true. AM Radio was the OG radicalizer before 2000ish.If he has no response for this then I don't think we were in a sincere discussion.
Yes, there has been bad done by people interpreting or misleading people to do bad and religion has been used as a way to do this, but that’s not what religion should be.
I don’t think the things mentioned would necessarily be considered evil, but not living to gods will.
No doubt, don’t think anyone is saying that.
A cherry picked form of religion, in this particular case christianity (hell, multiple different cherry pickings) is at the core of far right extremism in the US. It just fact, no two ways about it. And unfortunately I believe we will see more of this terror in the coming years before the next presidential election.
How do you determine what God's will is, if not the Bible?
No doubt. I think evil will persist as long as good does it’s part of why people believe or pray it’s just the way of the world.
Case in point…
It's not even that simple to me. People speak of religion as the driving factor for many bad things yet when you break it down is it?
If your religious involvement is a couple of hours in church on a Sunday then I don't believe religion has influenced you
In the South, it's a heck of a lot more than a couple of hours a week. It's your entire social circle and social calendar.
If those two hours play into the motivation to commit crimes, then religion has most certainly helped influenced someone. It could be the lynchpin.
That's a strawman, though. It's not really what we're talking about.
Big facts
Come on now it's not a straw man. I was having a conversation with Dewey but generally religion is blamed for many bad seeds committed by individuals.
That Chechen bloke who killed people in France was described as a Chechen Muslim. Yet he has moved to France when 6 months old. Committed the crime when in his mid to late 20s, parents not radicals etc so why blame Chechnya?
It's a small factor though no?
I mean 7/7 was committed by men born and raised in UK. Partiers and drinkers and university students. But because they went to mosque for half an hour on an occasional Friday that is the biggest influencer?
Kids in America shooting up schools with easy access to weapons is a religious failing?
Fair enough but then what's the percentage who engage in terrorism related incidents?
If the entire social circle etc is so big and involved then would there not be a lot more?
Surely you're not arguing that 7/7 was not about religion, though? We can find many causes and reasons, long-term and short-term, but it came down to religion in the end, don't you reckon?
Presumably you also believe that of all the people you're comfortable with labeling as Islamic terrorists, right? Because if so then I don't really see what this changes wrt. Christian terrorists like Breivik.
Well, they elected Trump once, so…
I’ve never read the Quran but I’d be pretty sure it’s teaching would be the exact opposite of what those who have murdered people in Allah’s name would be.
If I wanted to dig my heels in, I could agree with this yes, that anyone that properly follows a Religion would/should never do these things.
But, for argument’s sake and people using Religion for evil means then I think we can see were evildoers will use it as a tool.
I know what you mean about someone being called a Christian terrorist, when in fact they are most likely an evil racist.
I argue that it can be the most important motivator among many.
Watch the clip above. What‘s their motivation to be anti-LGBTQ?
Can't feel more empowered than when God is of the same opinion as you. Religion plays a huge role for a lot of extremist views. From being anti-LGBTQ, anti-abortion or just having a really sexist view.
I know many say that different religions are being interpreted the wrong way and that's probably true but religion is responsible for a lot of shit that's going on.
Like so many things, it is very much down to interpretation. Islam is essentially a defensive religion about how Allah was supposed to have to the prophet Muhammad that he should go back and tell his people how Allah wanted them to live their lives based on certain pillars of behaviour.
You can easily look up condensed versions of the Quran.
Can I ask a question to non religious people?
Don't you find it problematic that your moral compass changes with the wind? Something acceptable today won't be acceptable in 50 years, and something acceptable 50 years ago won't be accepted today.
This isn't the case within the organisation of a religion where the moral standard doesn't change (sticking to Islam as it hasn't really changed much in contrast to christianity)
Don't you find it problematic that your moral compass changes with the wind? Something acceptable today won't be acceptable in 50 years, and something acceptable 50 years ago won't be accepted today.
This isn't the case within the organisation of a religion where the moral standard doesn't change (sticking to Islam as it hasn't really changed much in contrast to christianity)
Firstly, I'd take issue with the contention that my moral compass shifts like the wind because I'm an atheist. It's a blatant misrepresentation.
As for the spriit of the question, attitudes of society change over time and as we learn and grow we realise that certain ways of behaving weren't right and caused harm to others. Also with advances in science we learn that what was taken as fact even a hundred years ago was wrong.
Aren't you concerned about adhering to a 1500 year old code of morality despite everything we've learned in the interim?
In my opinion a refusal to grow, learn or adjust our attitudes is infinitely worse than being open to new ideas.
1 - I think its unfair and just crazy to dismiss the concepts and societal norms of previous societies as being wrong, only because of the current societal norms that we adhere to. I believe completely we should grow as a society, and understand each other better in terms of our physical, emotive and health needs. An example is mental health, our society is doing a lot of good work relating to this which wasn't evident in previous societies. At the same time, we're moving away from the typical family setting, and one factor this is based on is our sexual desires/needs and I don't agree with that.
2 - I agree 10000% in science and reasoning based on intellect. If science clearly clearly disproves something then it makes no sense to go against that.
3 - Not at all, because what Islam provides is a base set of moral/societal conducts which last the test of time, however, at the same time it allows for the space to grow as a society and not be so limiting in terms of growth.
How the feck does a non religious person's moral compass "change with the wind"?
Do you think morality stems from or originates with religions?
Why do you think religious morality is consistent across the time? This thread's last few pages show that is clearly not the case nor is morality even consistent across individuals considering themselves to be of the same religions.
There are many moral factors which have changed, sometimes rapidly, compared to previous societies. The only thing constant is the desire for more money and more sex
Although you're right and the majority of religious people display some hypocritical characteristics (as do all humans), you cannot deny that religious text advocates the same moral and societal understanding across all generations.
The only things that have remained constant are the desire for more money and sex? Such a strange statement. Positive morality is equally constant.
You do get that concept of avarice being seen as a bad thing doesn't originate from religion? Religion didn't teach us stealing and murder were bad things. Morality is not from revelation but is innate in the intelligent and social creature that we are as a species. This is why the basic tenets are of what are seem as good or bad are the same across tome, geographies and religions. The basic ideas of what is or isn't moral has, broadly, remained constant. There will of course be variants (notably around sex and the general obsession in religions with what other people do with their bodies).
And yes, a societies morality can shift and this, fortunately, helps temper and counter the intransigence of religious dogma. Indeed, you see this in the direct contradictions within religious texts too: as an example, Jesus being anti slavery but the old testament advocating for it, as long as it's the right people enslaved.
So do human societies from which religions spring. Religions, literally, don't exist outwith human society.
The old testament and all bibles are corrupt in the sense that they've been altered and changed. Religion has taught us that murder, theft, stealing the rights of others, gambling, and alcohol are extremely harmful to individuals and societies.
Yes indeed. You are quite right.
One of the best things about humanity is our ability to learn and adapt to changing circumstances.
Just think about what life would be like if that had not happened.
Mortality rates, health and medicines and all the scientific developments that have benefitted humans.
But more than anything, education.
Some religions just want the masses to learn about and stick to what the Bible, for example, tells them.
Why should we be afraid of change?
No. Human societies create religions which include these basic and obvious moralities.
Otherwise you are suggesting the morality comes from religion.
And of course religious texts get corrupted. They also reflect the subjective opinion of the authors and subsequent editors. This is partly why they mightn't be the best way to guide yourself morally and why most religious people just ignore huge chunks of the texts as they form their morality.