The word.
Religion, what's the point?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
This deserves the John quote but I'm going to bed and can't think of something clever to do with it. 1:1, I'm sure you know it.
Religion is a beautiful thing, it brings people together, drive past a church or a mosque on a Sunday morning and look at how happy those people are when they are chatting away with their friends as they leave,
Not all religious people blow things up and not all religious people are cruel to their women, that's one of the sad aspects of life how because the actions of one religious person - people tar them as 'all the same' etc. at the end of the day as long as they aren't harming people then good on them for having a faith and believing in it.
Not all religious people blow things up and not all religious people are cruel to their women, that's one of the sad aspects of life how because the actions of one religious person - people tar them as 'all the same' etc. at the end of the day as long as they aren't harming people then good on them for having a faith and believing in it.
If I didn't know about my religion (buddhism) then I doubt I would be having a certain personality I try to show to society face to face.
Jesus was just a common man who managed to gain a large and loyal following.
And who has ever said that Jesus was God.
Quite agree with you on that.
There are far too many occasions when people are not able to give a cogent response and post some daft emoji instead thinking it is clever.
Many mainstream Christian religion think the trinity, god the father, god the son god the holy ghost, are all one god in essence with Jesus the physical incarnation of god on earth.
At least that was what I was told as a kid. It was very confusing so maybe I've got that a bit wrong. I never understood why Jesus would say why have you forsaken me if he was in fact also god.
There are many things that bring people together, not just religion.
And it is a known fact that people will always be happier amongst other like minded people, many of whom will be their friends.
I don't have a problem with people having a religious belief.
But what I simply cannot understand is how reasonably intelligent people can actually believe in the gospels eg, which claims to quote verbatim what one person was supposed to have said, or did when that gospel was actually written down tens or even hundreds of years after the event.
We have all heard of Chinese Whispers....
Understood and thank you.
I do believe that there was a man called Jesus.
But do not believe he was the son of God. He could have said just about anything and his loyal following would have believed it, assuming they did.
And as for the holy ghost, I will leave that with you.
I'm not even sure if he existed or if he did he is now a conglomerate of more than one person and then embellished upon.
That is the point. Nobody now knows for sure. It could be true but it could easily not be true.
But on balance, I am prepared to accept that there was a person who was called Jesus.
https://reasonsforhopejesus.com/can-you-be-a-christian-if-you-dont-believe-in-the-resurrection/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...dont-believe-resurrection-says-former-queens/
Some people who have studied the religion and the Queen's Chaplain agrees with you.
There's something profoundly weird about using official doctrine to say what someone who doesn't accept that very doctrine has to believe.
If a Christian doesn't believe that the Gospels are a 100 % accurate representations of Jesus' life and what he said, then using what Jesus supposedly said as reported in the Gospels is obviously circular and falls flat on its face: If they don't believe that Jesus said a particular thing, then pointing out that according to the Gospels he did say that thing doesn't matter. If a Christian doesn't accept the Church's authority, but rather sees it as a powerful political institution, then citing Church doctrine is obviously nonsensical. Heresy is contrary to the orthodoxy, so pointing out that something is heretical is meaningless when talking to someone who rejects the orthodoxy. Of course it's heretical, that's the point!
If a Christian doesn't believe that the Gospels are a 100 % accurate representations of Jesus' life and what he said, then using what Jesus supposedly said as reported in the Gospels is obviously circular and falls flat on its face: If they don't believe that Jesus said a particular thing, then pointing out that according to the Gospels he did say that thing doesn't matter. If a Christian doesn't accept the Church's authority, but rather sees it as a powerful political institution, then citing Church doctrine is obviously nonsensical. Heresy is contrary to the orthodoxy, so pointing out that something is heretical is meaningless when talking to someone who rejects the orthodoxy. Of course it's heretical, that's the point!
So if you read 10 newspapers and not every newspaper gives an identical account of an event, does that mean the event didn’t happen?
No, I'm not talking about what did or did not happen, I'm talking about what a Christian can believe in while still being a Christian. Which is a lot. It doesn't matter that it's not in line with the Catholic church if the Christian in question is not a Catholic, and it doesn't matter if it's contrary to something Jesus said according to the Gospels if the Christian in question doesn't believe that the Gospels are a 100 % accurate representation of Jesus' life. Which of course is a perfectly reasonable thing for a Christian to believe, if they think that the Gospels are accounts written, changed and evolved by men, rather than an unchanged result of divine revelation or something like that.
Times have changed people aren’t are stringent with their following of a faith, not many will even fast or say prayers on certain days which is fine it’s just the way of the world. The fundamentally important thing which I think even priests accept is you try and follow as best you can, it’s just faith it’s not a competition.
I don't know what makes stories like these more tragic, if the religion in question is a lie, or if it's true.
Modern Christianity in the west is basically viewing yourself as having a direct line to a personalised god, who believes everything you do and demands nothing from you(Be it changing your social views, believing in miracles against science, having to go to church, etc)
It turns Jesus into a prototype pick n mix John Lennon or the guy who writes the all inspirational quotes at hallmarks.
That’s not to say this is a bad thing as organised religion is the fecking pits. But it is hard to argue against because it so individualistic that it’s almost meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
It turns Jesus into a prototype pick n mix John Lennon or the guy who writes the all inspirational quotes at hallmarks.
That’s not to say this is a bad thing as organised religion is the fecking pits. But it is hard to argue against because it so individualistic that it’s almost meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Less stringent?
I can have a party round my house that will achieve the same thing, without those nasty brutal wars/terrorism/kiddy fiddling/bigotry side effects.
It's the abuse of power that is so common within religious groups that is so scary imo.
Yes?Less stringent?
Depends on who you’re inviting.
Christianity. Which is what my conversation with @Cheimoon is about.
Bud, I posted an emoji because he said his wife agreed with me.
I’m not a Christian. I don’t believe in god. I am, however, having a discussion with people about the nature of the Christian religion as it pertains to Christians. If you’d like to join it after knowing the full context of the discussion, feel free, but you might want to read back the last couple pages.
Often, yes, but not here. @Carolina Red made a joke with the emoticon (responding to me commenting on my wife), and I made a joke back (linking the emoji to me saying he could have the last word). All in good fun.
If I have offended you in any, please accept my apology.
I am in a similar position to you in terms of my beliefs.
I was actually commenting on the widespread use of emoji instead of written posts.
But anyway, have a good day.
I see Elizabeth Moss is trending on twitter as she's actually talking about Scientology more.
I admire her sticking to her guns in the sense as an adult she still truly believes, on the other hand I have no idea how hard it is to break away from something you were born and indoctrinated in to even if you wanted to. Thankfully.
I admire her sticking to her guns in the sense as an adult she still truly believes, on the other hand I have no idea how hard it is to break away from something you were born and indoctrinated in to even if you wanted to. Thankfully.
Yep, as would all the other non-heretical denominations / sects.
I mean, case in point, those “Christians” would be once again going against the exact words of Jesus Christ…
John 11:25-26:
"Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?'"
Luke 24:
“38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” …
44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” 45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.”
No worries. All is good. Have a good one
Tell that to the millions who have been slaughtered in the name of religion. 'You don't believe in the mythical God that I do therefore I hate you and must kill you' has been a motif of religion since the crusades! There has been no bigger killer in the history of mankind than religion.
I I think it helps when you're not actively trying to indoctrinate someone in to those practices. I have no problem with people believing whatever they want to believe (although if I'm going to believe that someone sent their only Son to Earth to save mankind, I'd prefer it to be Superman, but that's just me) but the big problem I have is when people either (a) mock atheists and believe they're better than them because they have a religious faith or (b) go the way of the Christian Right at this point and push your most stringent doctrines on to the wider population.
Its not that weird in a thread titled Religion what's the point though is it? Out random on the streets, then yes fair enough.
It is pretty central to the theme of finding out what people believe and why they believe in it.
I think if you come into this thread and say you are a Christian and believe in Jesus you might want to pre-empt any misunderstanding caused by using the term, when in fact you have a fairly unique interpretation of that particular religion.
Muslims believe that Christ existed but they are not Christians are they? So its a fair point to make that believing in Christ isn't the final definition it comes with other strings attached, well normally it does anyway.
Exactly
I’m guessing you aren’t American?
I can get behind the younger generations having less stringent belief systems, but the dominionist movement here in the US partially negates your assertion. If anything there’s been a crystallization of fundamentalism here recently, unfortunately showcased in our state level politics, the politics that is truly impactful on its citizens.
I don't get your Muslim point, because yes even though they believe he existed and that he was a prophet, they don't believe that he has anything directly to do with God.
I as an atheist also believe that Jesus existed, but that has nothing to do with believing in him. No one has ever claimed that, in this thread or any other place. The strings you're talking about would be that Jesus is God, or the Son of God, or the divine, or any other formulation along the same lines.
With about 2.5 billion practicing Christians in the world the chances of having some that take it to the extreme is quite likely but not generally considered the behaviour of the most of them.
For instance I saw a lady with a amplifier shouting to people in the town square about “God will save you” this to me is extreme behaviour and only self gratification, but this is one in a city of thousands of Christians.
He’s pointing out that believing Jesus existed and that his teachings were good isn’t what makes you a Christian… because Muslims believe that but aren’t Christians. Thomas Jefferson, now famously, edited the miracles out of his copy of the Bible and believed Jesus to be a great moral teacher, but rejected his immaculate birth, resurrection, and divinity. Jefferson was a Deist, not a Christian. The bare fact is that the Judeo-Christian god, through his incarnation as Jesus, tells exactly what Christians are supposed to believe about him in order to gain salvation. According to the words of Jesus, rejecting these things removes you from that group, no matter what you call yourself.
Edit: also, Paul had this to say about the importance of Christ’s resurrection in 1st Corinthians 15: 13-17 and 20-22
“13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.”
“20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead,the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.”
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Which is perplexing to some extent. The definition of Satan in the Hebrew is to describe an entity (singular) meaning he who opposes. It is reformed around describing an individual.
The best description I've heard concerning Christian doctrine and Islam is that they are superficially similar in some regards but fundamentally different.
Quite right.