Only if the family eventually gives consent. If they don't give consent, those deaths disappear into the ether and don't get captured in these statistics at all
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
Only if the family eventually gives consent. If they don't give consent, those deaths disappear into the ether and don't get captured in these statistics at all
14 deaths in over 3000 cases. 29 days since the first case, I believe.
We've tested almost 50k people or something. That's about 1% of our entire population.
That means we have a less than 0.5% death rate so far. And that's confirmed cases. They estimate that the actual number of infected is between 2 and 7 times higher than the number of confirmed cases.
After a week of stable figures it now seems to had a couple of bad days, fully expect some stricter rules to come in force over the next couple of days. Maybe starting with isolating Stockholm.
Isn't that a stupid way to go about things? There is no need to give out the details of the person who passed away, but the stats need to be captured. Else how would the govt decide what scale of help is needed for the public.
Right, can we get some sort of penalty shootout between italy and Sweden as they've played extra time all night?
It would depend how late we are talking. This type of reporting could caused a slow trickle of deaths to incomes over a long period and not be broadly reflective. And as already mentioned if the families don't give consent the deaths won't be captured.
I can easily see a situation where the NHS is so overwhelmed that there simply isn't the time or resources to ask for consent.
Small data/recent surge. There simply hasn't been enough time for people to progress from contracting to dying. In South Korea the CFR was a fraction of what it's now until recently.
Its madness, its something the government needs to explain as a matter of urgency.
Look, we all know that these are difficult times for everyone, we don't need it constantly pushed in our faces by the self appointed experts on here, or those selectively posting the most "bad news" tweets they can find
There are loads of positives coming out of this, if people on here are too wrapped up in their conspiracy theories to see them then that's their problem
People are looking out for each other more, especially the old and vunerable
People volunteering more
People connecting more with their families through being together or home schooling
People realising that money is not the be all and end all
People realising what is really important
People realising that the people whose jobs are really important are actually those in food production, logistics, delivery, the care system and, of course, the NHS - often those who are paid the least
People seeing the benefits of socialism rather than capitalism and greed
Benefits for the environment
More awareness of mental health
People out exercising or walking as families that would never normally do so
The acceleration of a move towards remote working and the flexibility that this brings
The time to reflect or read or whatever
Its dodgy as feck.
Consent from family should absolutely not be required to report cause of death. Its just a number, not here is John Bloggs who died of coronavirus.
The only possible reason to do that is to hide the real numbers.
Yeah, it doesn't seem to make sense, so I'm still skeptical of it. Even if so, you'd have to imagine that somebody is still compiling all the raw data somewhere and that's whats being used to make decisions at the top level, because it's ludicrous otherwise
I’m not sure about what you mean about deaths being too random because nobody knows how the virus kills peopleAll that matters is the opinion of the doctor that signed the death cert. Do they believe that the patient died as a result of COVID-19 infection? This might not always be something they know with absolute certainty but they’ll always be be pretty damn confident of their opinion. They have to be. The death cert is a legally binding document.
Cases, on the other hand, are widely acknowledged as being a wildly inaccurate way to assess disease burden, for obvious reasons. Countries like the UK and US have been doing many multiples fewer tests per capita than countries like South Korea, so will - completely inaccurately - report their number of cases as being many multiples lower, despite this not being the reality.
Anyway, this is a bit of a pedantic discussion but deaths are definitely being used as a useful way to track the pandemic, in the knowledge that just looking at positive cases can be very misleading.
Here’s some data being followed closely in Ireland. Collated by one of our main universities and shared on behalf of the professional body which represents all Irish General Practitioners (ICGP). With cases such a poor metric, the #deaths/million is arguably the most important in knowing how severely a country has been affected.
Last edited:
Oh we’re on the same page there pal, I’m well aware that Stockholm and most major cities are likely to become disaster zones. They don’t make field hospitals for nothing.
Right, this Sweden argument is boring the tits off most of us. Go and create a separate thread if you want to bang on about it.
They've tested a lot more than other countries per million population but still haven't tested THAT much. Basically until we know how likely it is to go completely symptomless and identify all who have antibodies despite having had not symptoms previously, we will not know the real mortality rate, it's all guess work.
We are approximately 14 days behind Italy, but we're not seeing anything close to their numbers. At the same stage their death rate was almost 10 times higher, if I'm not mistaken.
I know that our death rate will go up over the next weeks, but by how much is hard to say. As of this moment, the death rate is 0.5% at the absolute worst. Probably closer to 0.2%. Two weeks from now it may rise to South Korean levels, though I doubt it.
Probably true, but I think it's good that these untimely deaths are being publicised just so young people realise that the 'rona is no joke.
Here in Jakarta, news of the death of an otherwise fit, presumably healthy and successful 32-year-old man has sent panic on WhatsApp groups and the like, at least in my circles. I see this growing anxiety amongst people around my age to be a step in the right direction, especially in places like here (Indonesia) where an official lockdown, be it full or partial, to my astonishment hasn't been put into force.
Panic is rarely a good response, but it annoys me when people don't take the situation seriously. Especially if their reasoning is "it's just old people, so who cares?". Those people probably deserve to have some anxiety.
The whole grocery situation is a complete mess, so there are no delivery slots available for new customers, the supermarkets dont space out the replenishment of their stock throughout the day which makes it pointless turning up the stores in the evening as the shelves are pretty bare, it creates a stupid situation where everyone is forced to turn up at the store all the same time early in day to get their shopping.
Judging by paparazzi photos of them when they're out shopping, that's nothing special.
Also, they're really struggling with this aren't they?
it's not yet resolved in Asia. there are now second waves of the virus in Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea. this isn't going to be some 'one time fix', whereby locking down once solves all our problems. it won't. i dont think people appreciate that there will be a series of lockdowns for the next 12-18 months, so the timing of these lockdowns becomes the most important thing. you lockdown to ensure your healthcare isn't overwhelmed - that's priority #1. you don't just lockdown for the sake of it or because eventually one day your healthcare services will be overburderned (whenever that may be), because this problem isn't going completely away for some time yet.
Back off Brussels!
I remain sceptical but I really hope you're right and they aren't just walking blindly into a shitstorm.
I agree. It's all estimates now. (I personally reckon it would stabilise at 2-3% in a spherical country in a vacuum
).I went to Tesco at 7am and went right in...although I'd forgot my Mum's token so needed to get change for the trolley...fecking ballache. They had a bloke on the door stopping couples and only letting one person shop. Inside it was not busy and they were keeping people apart at the tills. I was in there bloody ages and when I came out the queue to get in was around the car park, but people were three feet apart.
I couldn't get flour but everything else I needed was available. Parmesan, balsamic, horseradish, mozzarella, mint clubs and Spitfire ale were my main gets.
I couldn't get flour but everything else I needed was available. Parmesan, balsamic, horseradish, mozzarella, mint clubs and Spitfire ale were my main gets.
Perhaps we are discussing separate things here. I am talking about what is most useful in tracking the progress of the virus, you seem to be talking about assessing the impact on the country.
Do you really need consent to report the numbers?
Solid choice.
I went to our Tesco's about 9.30 a.m. There was a guy there who would not let you in until you used their wipes and disinfectant spray on your trolley. I was wearing gloves as well. It was pretty quiet and same here, they have markers at the tills to keep people the correct distance apart. I got most things, of course there was absolutely no paracetamol, which I would have liked to buy, they were limiting some things like frozen chips to three per person and you could only get one lot of milk. I am not planning to go to any big supermarket for a couple of weeks now, it will be my local Co-op for anything I do run out of.
The use of the war on terror rhetoric(''We can't let this virus defeat us)just shows how deeply backward parts of the UK population are.
It's brilliant when you actually get a solid mint chocolate club!
My local co-op had nothing and they aren't even attempting to keep people separated or limiting how much you can buy. The Tesco Express literally opposite had the separation boxes outside and were limiting how many people in the shop at once, but again weren't limiting items so although had much more than co-op, they still had things missing.
I have never apologised so much in my life, if I go an inch too close to someone outside, it's 'Sorry! Sorry!' How difficult is it too wash your bloody hands. They should be washing their hands anyway. What is wrong with these people?
Yeah, I made a similar comment a few days ago. This isn't the aftermath of a terrorist attack. We need to behave appropriately.
I went to Aldi on Tuesday, for certain things. They were letting 30 in at a time, when someone came out another could go in. There was plenty of room inside, you could get a lot of things, excepted limited milk available again, they were limiting you to two paper products, so got toilet rolls and a big paper towel, for some reason baked beans have been cleaned out and I couldn't get minced beef, got some today at Tesco. I wouldn't want to be in the house with the family eating all those beans.