Yes, specially in this episode, I defo agree. If you turn off your brain and enjoy the fireworks, it's a good episode
Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
To be fair, the actual madness (schizophrenia) is usually triggered by a serious trauma. She had lost 2 of her "kids" and 2 of the closest friends, as well as being ignored (and even betrayed) by her current lover/nephew, betrayed by a trusted advisor, whom she had to kill... and not many people seem to like her all of the sudden, despite of all of her losses.
You don't go back to the woman who hired someone to kill you and your brother, no matter how in love you are. It's inconceivable to me that this is how it will end in the books.
Not necessarily. She could for example have gone after Tyrion's/Sansa's/Jon's heads for some perceived treason regarding Jon's claim, turning up her previous conflicts a couple of notches. Or she could've focused her destruction on the red keep (as an escalation of her anger for Cersei). Both would've been logical escalations of her previous behaviour and both could have been sufficient to give her character a much much darker shade, bordering or crossing on/into mad.
So much moaning, makes it near impossible to enjoy this thread which is a real shame. I am fully convinced that people already make up their minds before even watching the episode, how many times are people gonna repeat "this is poor writing". Genuinly what do people want from the show, there are still constant twists and turns, great action, some excellent finishes to character arcs. Makes me wonder how people enjoy anything in life if its viewed down a microscope like this.
That's what annoys me. Yeah I should accept the situation now with the show but switching my brain off to watch this was not what made the show great. It's basically 2 gone from a great written show with some quality to action to just action
Hahaha wow, okay wasnt expecting it to be like THAT.
I loved this episode
Can imagine the outrage over utterly destroying a charactera carefully crafted over 8 seasons though.
I loved this episode
Can imagine the outrage over utterly destroying a charactera carefully crafted over 8 seasons though.
Aye she could have inched closer to madness before breaking, no doubt. Even in that case though there would have to be a break between somewhat-justifiable actions (which going after someone like Sansa who was plotting against her would be) and the overtly unjustifiable actions that are coming.
Once you accept that the endpoint is her becoming the antagonist, there has to be a point where she crosses that line. At which point the writers have to decide how close they can bring her to that breaking point before that twist happens. Not close enough and they're accused of not developing it properly, too close and it robs the breaking moment of shock, which a twist is supposed to have.
Personally I thought they did enough to lay the ground for the twist, the problem is that this season is too sped up because of the shorter season structure. I think if last week's developments had taken place across two episodes (the first showing her increasing paranoia at winterfell, the second her losing a dragon and friend) then it would have felt more natural, even though the story beats would be exactly the same. The mini-films structure fundamentally isn't suited to a TV show, I think.
I feel you, as soon as heard that the season was shortened in terms of episodes, my expectation was lowered.
I'm glad it's almost over, I'm sure most of the actors are too
I thought she was strategically attacking with the sun on her back and right on top of the ships which made it harder for the scorpions to be oriented and aimed well. I could be wrong though.
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Just seen the overall rating for this episode. Has there ever been a show this big that seems to have fallen so spectacularly in critical reviews (not just internet fans).
This destruction wasn't just about winning the war though it was a warning to anyone who'd think about giving serious thought to anyone but her as the ruler. She basically told John all she has is fear and now she'll use that fear to bring every other major house under her grip.
As far as actions go this was well written. She was triggered by John disobeying her and then varys trying to commit treason.
How did we go from this mastery of character development, acting, writing even score, to the absolute shit show that we have been forced to view this season is beyond me.
I feel like GOT died a long time ago. And this is some weird bootleg version of it like when your mom says "we have at it home"
Sad times.
Regarding the scorpions, again, I think that this point is overblown. Dany lost her first 2 dragons to carelessness, as she (and them) weren't even thinking that anything can hurt them. When Rhaegar (the second one?) was killed, he wasn't expecting anything like that — got the first arrow, panicked and remained an "easy" target. Plus we have to assume that Euron is an übermensch that mastered the art of shooting perfectly, but that can be believed in a fantasy story.
The only truly shocking part was that they didn't spot his fleet in the first place.
Now in this series Dany
1. Attacks with the sun at her back, making it harder to spot her
2. Minimises the surface of her dragon by flying straight at them — Rhaegar made himself a bigger target as they attacked him from his side
Plus not everyone is as overpowered as Euron — the guards on the walls had very limited training, if any. And they are in panic, obviously, don't discount that.
The only truly shocking part was that they didn't spot his fleet in the first place.
Now in this series Dany
1. Attacks with the sun at her back, making it harder to spot her
2. Minimises the surface of her dragon by flying straight at them — Rhaegar made himself a bigger target as they attacked him from his side
Plus not everyone is as overpowered as Euron — the guards on the walls had very limited training, if any. And they are in panic, obviously, don't discount that.
Critical review authors write for clicks and people are looking at the episode as some kind of affront to their favorite character.. Rating slide is hardly surprising. When the ratings are high people would bitch about that bc omg it wasnt that good etc. Ned should ve never protested and helped kill Dany. Blame Ned!
It feels like the season 8 we are witnessing is the end to a different version of GoT than we had seen.
And somewhere out there, in a different universe, there exists a season 8 that would have made perfect sense as an ending to our own s1-7.
And somewhere out there, in a different universe, there exists a season 8 that would have made perfect sense as an ending to our own s1-7.
I can't understand why there appears to be levels of surprise at Dany losin
Shit, the quality is down from the early series, but the criticism is disproportionate. Comparing the writing to Lucas is risible.
Almost all the points are overblown. Everyone's lost their fecking minds. At the point it was suggested that Dany's "heel-turn" was worse than Anakin Skywalker's switch to the darkside was the point when I gave up.
Shit, the quality is down from the early series, but the criticism is disproportionate. Comparing the writing to Lucas is risible.
The IMDB rating was already at 7.2 or something like that before the episode even aired last night.
There are a lot of criticisms to level at season 8 but much of it comes from a position of loud unbridled nerd rage on the internet that is more pleasant to ignore.
There are a lot of criticisms to level at season 8 but much of it comes from a position of loud unbridled nerd rage on the internet that is more pleasant to ignore.
Once again, its not a problem of what is happening in the story, its how and why its happening they seem to have forgotten or put 0 effort into. Love island tier character development and screenplay the past 2 seasons.
Ok I have seen this opinion many times but I wonder how many folks saying that (not targeting you specifically) rewatched the show shortly before S8. I get the sense people played up the previous seasons to an unrealistic degree. Upon rewatch S8 does feel rushed at times but I honestly don't see the major drop in quality. Dorne's season was far more jarring imho and does truly feel like the oddball out.
Yep.
Though some of the comments in the other direction can be equally as daft as the harshest criticisms. "Just switch your brain off" yeah, great, except the show started in the exact opposite way to that.
But all in all, I still don't see how they'd have ended this to please everyone. Not with the shortened defined ending point, and not with the shear amount of characters and 2 big bads to take on.
I'm of the opinion it could be a hell of a lot worse, bad rather sadly I'm actually glad it's ending.
There are people suggesting that there hasn't been enough ground work put into:
1. Establishing Dany might have the capacity to go a bit mental
2. That Jaimie might value Cersei over all other things
3. Showing Arya training to be an assassin
These themes have been focused on extensively for years.
There is a difference between criticising validly and just ignoring hours and hours of screen time. It's really got a bit strange.
Season 7 was pretty mixed for fans but still gained very good critical reviews and the first two episodes of this season did very well too but it really takes a nose dive from episode 3 (which I actually enjoyed, faults and all). Have a feeling next weeks will be even lower.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/game-of-thrones/s08
Just catching up with the season - but can someone explain Bronn magically teleporting at Winterfell, bow in hand and breaking into the room where Jamie and Tyron where having a glass of wine, and extracting some castle in return for not killing them? That whole scene was so fecking bad. Like what the actual feck.
No, that scene is inexplicable.
I think the problem isn't so much *what* happened but rather how it has been presented to the audience. The devil's in the details and the details have been pushed to the side to make room for essentially nothing but major plot points to fit the equivalent of 2000+ pages into 13 episodes. And that has been felt the most in this year especially.
Maybe that take is also more prominent in people who read the books so we had a whole slew of possible theories on how they'd get to certain endings and with virtually none of those being the case, there's more dissatisfaction than there would be otherwise. It was always going to be a difficult task to have TV showrunners satisfactorily tie up loose ends on 5000+ pages of dense plot in 13 or so episodes so maybe we shouldn't be mad. For me, though, the end result almost seems to show a disdain for the source material, like D&D are all too happy to just finish things off and not be particularly bothered with how it all happens. So for those of us who've waited this long, especially nearly 2 years for this last season, it just sucks.
yup, I forgot about that, though given the forgetfulness of the show D&D might too.
The most surprising thing there is how well reviewed season seven was.
Imo the episode where they went beyond the wall remains the single most dissapointing and stupid of the entire series.
Especially now Jaime is dead.
I doubt they will, but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the last ep has Tyrion in shit for releasing Jaime and Bronn once again has to fight for him to get his castle finally.
I wouldn't put it past them.
After thinking more about the last episode, Jaimes decision to suddenly go back and hold arms with Cersei was ridiculously, unforgivablly daft.
Agreed. The scene with them all walking and talking was straight out of TWD and absolutely gringeworthy. This series, for all it's flaws, is far better than the last.
See, I can't agree.If he hadn't gone back to Cersei, it'd be daft.
Why?
Either go back to kill her, or go don't go back.
Don't go back to suddenly join her. She literally wanted to kill him via Bronn for fecksake. That's enough to break any infatuation. I'd understand the obsession with one another if it was mutual. But one way? Even still, if we accept Jaime loved Cersei more, that should still go out the window when she's trying to take your life for fecksake.
Someone made an essay on Dany and her "dragon" nature which GRRM said was spot on, and it puts what she did in this episode into more context than it just being about her going "mad".
https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...grrm/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthro...grrm/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I quote:
This is not to say Dany will become some cackling, one-dimensional "evil" villain. She will surely continue to care about those she loves, use violence against some people who legitimately deserve it, and free some more slaves if she happens to come across them.
I still dont understand how anyone can make sense of Dany deliberatly burning thousands of civilians alive after the enemy surrendered. It makes no sense. She literally risked her life and army a few episodes ago to save the world. She makes a point our of not being like Aerys who is jesus now compared to her. The transformation is terrible writing.
It reminded me a bit of Anakin in Revenge of the Sith.
Oh and The mountain vs Qyburn
Oh and The mountain vs Qyburn
Madness or just her nature, whatever way, she was always going to go off the deep end.
I'm not sure people keep saying it's different to the mad king either, he wanted to do the exact same thing except he had no dragon so wanted to blow the whole city up (and everyone in it) with wildfire.
I think the major gap between seasons has allowed a more realistic assesment. Still a huge show but not the cultural force of old, and finally being called on issues that have been building for years.
