Zinedine Zidane - 3 time CL winning manager without a job

If you sign Zidane and tell him "treat United as you would treat Madrid" yes, I would sign Zidane.
If you think about long projects, young new players from academy, etc probably another profile would be better. I believe in him and surely he would do great setting other goals but would be over complicating the decision.
If you need to see a clear football style then I don't think you will. It will be compact, flexible, resistant and competitive but cloudy at times.

He is a very intriguing person, it is difficult to know what he thinks, but after what I observed and different rumors:
-He studies, analyzes and helps the players more than it seems. As you have mentioned, it is seen in training.
-It is very hierarchical, if the top player shows commitment and level, he will play.
-I can't imagine him creating a complex web of tactics. In other words, in the field, he is not going to correct Pogba, he is going to call him and reach an understanding with him, where as top players they will understand what is failing.
-It is said that he repeatedly rejected the signing of Bruno Fernandes, which was one of the many confrontations with the CEO (rumored after his farewell letter).
-He believed that football would become more and more physical, with more versatile players, and with great intensity. Nothing new for the Premier followers.
If you sign him, my first transfer bet would be Aouar.
 
Escobar said:
How can you not rate Zidane? He literally ticks most boxes that would be important as a United coach. And don't come with the "he only managed one team" argument - so did Pep, so did Fergie....
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Not sure you know your football history buddy.
 
cyberman said:
Plenty of Madrid fans criticised his get it wide and cross it in approach.
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I know Real madrid fans and they are the worst in football. They boo Ronaldo for christ sake, Varane was "shit" because he left and Ramos a "has-been" they are spoilt children who turn on their own players, even legends with one bad kick of the ball. Their opinions on football mean less to me than Obertan's united career.
 
passtheball said:
Good post.

Even SAF lost a CL final with prime Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Berbatov, Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra etc. etc. in the team. He failed twice against Barcelona in CL finals. Zidane managed to beat them in La Liga, which has been dominated by Barcelona in the past decade or so (8 titles in 12 seasons since 08-09).

Takes a special kind of United fan to wonder whether a manager who has won more champions leagues than SAF will be an upgrade on Ole.
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Only some United fans compare Ole to Zidane, Tuchel, Rodgers or Poch. Those other teams fans who don’t rate Zidane, sure as hell don’t consider Ole an EPL level manager.
 
JPRouve said:
@sullydnl but none of that supports the part that I bolded, the idea that he is tactically involved or savvy.

What you described is that he isn't talkative in the media and isn't dogmatic when it comes to tactics. Both of these things are true the former was already the case when he was a player and the latter is obvious when you see Real Madrid play and adapt to what they have and who they play. But it doesn't mean that he isn't tactically involved, the world of management isn't strictly divided between head coaches that are 100% man-management and head coaches that are 100% about their system. And the fact that you described him as between Ancelotti and Lippi is a testament to that, first because you named two italian managers and italian managers are all developed into a tactic heavy culture but you also mentioned two managers that are different one that is a bit more on the man-management side of things while the other was very pragmatic and put a huge emphasis on tactics with little room for improvisation.

And in general what you say at the end is a big issue currently. People are being hoodwinked with fancy words and principles that aren't even new or special. Zidane's tactics aren't simpler than Guardiola's tactics, if anything the likes of Guardiola and Klopp have the most basic systems around, the most complicated that I know is from Simeone and people generally don't like it. The thing that separates Klopp and Guardiola with the rest is that they have the ability to teach those simple principles to a point where the players are able to execute at a higher speed than their opponents(and they also have better players) but there is nothing special about it.
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I didn't say he wasn't tactically savvy in the bit you bolded, just that he wasn't system-orientated. Something the extensive coverage of his time at Madrid made pretty clear.

There's a quote from a piece in the Independent today regarding Sancho:

At Borussia Dortmund, Sancho was playing in a system where there were all sorts of triggers about what to do and when. One feeling is that United’s play isn’t currently technical enough for Sancho at this stage of his development.

The message is more “take them on, son”. At Dortmund, teammates were coached to play all manner of runs that served as signals as when Sancho should go or pass. At United, they make far fewer runs, and many of them just attract defenders. This is one reason Sancho hasn't looked himself. There just isn’t the same integration as at Dortmund. There are only better individuals.
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Whether true in Sancho's case or not, that idea of a regime focused on individuals rather than the technical details of how a system functions is what I'm personally tired of percieving when I watch United under Solskjaer. The seeming lack of emphasis on pre-prepared, thoroughly coached patterns of play and a seeming reliance on individuals producing improvised moments of inspiration is something that has frustrated me throughout Solskjaer's reign.

I don't want to make it sound like I'm comparing Zidane to Ole (because that would be both reductive and stupid) but Zidane's Madrid (succesful though they were) didn't play in a way that suggests he would bring the sort of dramatic shift I want to see in that regard. New and special or not, I saw a massive difference between Zidane's Madrid and those more Pep-influenced sides in terms of how pre-prepared and structured their general play was and pretty much none of the coverage of Zidane's regime at Madrid has provided any evidence to suggest what I saw was incorrect, that actually that Madrid was every bit as structured and thoroughly coached in the details of how to play as those system-based sides. In terms of praise he received for being tactically savvy, it was generally in terms of how adaptable his tactics were, which I'm far less interested in.

If you want to describe Pep's tactics as being just as simple as Zidane's and his system being one of the most basic, that's fine by me. But whatever the difference is that makes Pep (and other managers') attacking play seem so much more pre-prepared and heavily coached than Zidane's, that's what I want.

Perhaps it's also what's reflected in @carvajal's post above when he mentions a "cloudy at times" football style and not correcting players like Pogba on-field. The last thing I want is for our new manager's style of football to be "cloudy", at any point.
 
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carvajal said:
If you sign Zidane and tell him "treat United as you would treat Madrid" yes, I would sign Zidane.
If you think about long projects, young new players from academy, etc probably another profile would be better. I believe in him and surely he would do great setting other goals but would be over complicating the decision.
If you need to see a clear football style then I don't think you will. It will be compact, flexible, resistant and competitive but cloudy at times.

He is a very intriguing person, it is difficult to know what he thinks, but after what I observed and different rumors:
-He studies, analyzes and helps the players more than it seems. As you have mentioned, it is seen in training.
-It is very hierarchical, if the top player shows commitment and level, he will play.
-I can't imagine him creating a complex web of tactics. In other words, in the field, he is not going to correct Pogba, he is going to call him and reach an understanding with him, where as top players they will understand what is failing.
-It is said that he repeatedly rejected the signing of Bruno Fernandes, which was one of the many confrontations with the CEO (rumored after his farewell letter).
-He believed that football would become more and more physical, with more versatile players, and with great intensity. Nothing new for the Premier followers.
If you sign him, my first transfer bet would be Aouar.
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Yeah no thanks.
 
United fans would be the only ones to reject both Conte and Zidane for silly reasons. It's getting funny !
 
Widow said:
I'm still unsure about Zidane.

He managed and won with a very good Madrid side and hasn't been anywhere else.
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Think of it this way, at least he won something in his time with Madrid. Our current manager hasn't won anything in nearly a decade.
 
Weird to say of a 3x CL winner but his next job will define him, I think he'll flop wherever he goes, for me he's just Ancelotti with skinny jeans
 
Does he have any patterns? Apart from male pattern baldness, obviously.
 
GlasgowCeltic said:
Weird to say of a 3x CL winner but his next job will define him, I think he'll flop wherever he goes, for me he's just Ancelotti with skinny jeans
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Ancelotti who after Milan did an excellent job for PSG and then won La decima with Real Madrid? Ancelotti was also a significantly older manager, while Zidane may fail in his next job, he is a young manager and in theory should still be developing.
 
Escobar said:
How can you not rate Zidane? He literally ticks most boxes that would be important as a United coach. And don't come with the "he only managed one team" argument - so did Pep, so did Fergie....
What Zidane has done at RM has been incredible, there is no doubt about that. If he can replicate that at another team, how knows, but he has proven twice that can be a bloody great manager with tons of further potential. And, he's without a job
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I'm not coming with any argument as I previously pointed out "for some reason"

I can't put my finger on it, just gut feeling. I know he ticks boxes of being successful ect but just don't think he'd be a good fit for us
 
Reducing Zidane to his 3 CL wins blatanly ignore that he won the league vs Messi and Suarez with no one but Benzema scoring goals on his side

Ramos was the 2nd top scorer in 19/20 and Casemiro the 2nd top scorer in 20/21

-Zidane won a league title after Lopetegui/Solari got totally blasted by Valverde's BARCA the year before.
-He then fought until the last matchday with 65+ injuries and would've arguably won if not for some shaddy VAR against Sevilla
-CL semifinals with once again an unfit squad, he was forced to rush back players and start Marcelo, easily smashed Liverpool in quarters
-3 wins 1 draw vs Atletico last season, has hugely positive records against both Barca and Atletico as a manager, in the CL beat Juve twice, Liverpool twice, Bayern twice, PSG once,Atletico twice

Labelling all his achievements as being carried by a great squad is blatanly false
 
Zidane's last season in his first stint they did play more attractive football and controlled games, the previous two they got by with quite unremarkable football. We wouldn't see a dramatic change in style but more correct calls and instructions then over time better football. I think he would be a very good appointment to oversee the players we have. He proved himself in my eyes when coming back and winning the league again without Ronaldo and aging players unmotivated when two other coaches came in and failed. He seems really good at finding solutions to problems and to win and obviously has a special aura and stature. He reminds me a little of Sir Matt in his character and strong look in his eyes.
 
redshaw said:
We wouldn't see a dramatic change in style but more correct calls and instructions then over time better football. I think he would be a very good appointment to oversee the players we have.
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This is what many are missing. He's not coming in to rebuild us, he's coming in to maximise our squads potential. We're playing like a plucky mid table side at the moment with world class internationals. Even if the football isn't amazing under Zidane he'll at least have us performing again.
 
sullydnl said:
I didn't say he wasn't tactically savvy in the bit you bolded, just that he wasn't system-orientated. Something the extensive coverage of his time at Madrid made pretty clear.

There's a quote from a piece in the Independent today regarding Sancho:



Whether true in Sancho's case or not, that idea of a regime focused on individuals rather than the technical details of how a system functions is what I'm personally tired of percieving when I watch United under Solskjaer. The seeming lack of emphasis on pre-prepared, thoroughly coached patterns of play and a seeming reliance on individuals producing improvised moments of inspiration is something that has frustrated me throughout Solskjaer's reign.

I don't want to make it sound like I'm comparing Zidane to Ole (because that would be both reductive and stupid) but Zidane's Madrid (succesful though they were) didn't play in a way that suggests he would bring the sort of dramatic shift I want to see in that regard. New and special or not, I saw a massive difference between Zidane's Madrid and those more Pep-influenced sides in terms of how pre-prepared and structured their general play was and pretty much none of the coverage of Zidane's regime at Madrid has provided any evidence to suggest what I saw was incorrect, that actually that Madrid was every bit as structured and thoroughly coached in the details of how to play as those system-based sides. In terms of praise he received for being tactically savvy, it was generally in terms of how adaptable his tactics were, which I'm far less interested in.

If you want to describe Pep's tactics as being just as simple as Zidane's and his system being one of the most basic, that's fine by me. But whatever the difference is that makes Pep (and other managers') attacking play seem so much more pre-prepared and heavily coached than Zidane's, that's what I want.

Perhaps it's also what's reflected in @carvajal's post above when he mentions a "cloudy at times" football style and not correcting players like Pogba on-field. The last thing I want is for our new manager's style of football to be "cloudy", at any point.
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I suppose the potential drawback to taking the approach you desire is the possibility that the current squad is not a good fit for any of the likely candidates to implement it, and thus we would once again require an extensive recruitment overhall and, by extension, a few more years and hundreds of millions spent for the project to begin bearing fruit.

Whereas perhaps a pragmatic, problem-solving tactician such as Zidane is exactly what our current very-talented but un-balanced squad needs in order to get the best out of what we currently have?
 
carvajal said:
If you sign Zidane and tell him "treat United as you would treat Madrid" yes, I would sign Zidane.
If you think about long projects, young new players from academy, etc probably another profile would be better. I believe in him and surely he would do great setting other goals but would be over complicating the decision.
If you need to see a clear football style then I don't think you will. It will be compact, flexible, resistant and competitive but cloudy at times.

He is a very intriguing person, it is difficult to know what he thinks, but after what I observed and different rumors:
-He studies, analyzes and helps the players more than it seems. As you have mentioned, it is seen in training.
-It is very hierarchical, if the top player shows commitment and level, he will play.
-I can't imagine him creating a complex web of tactics. In other words, in the field, he is not going to correct Pogba, he is going to call him and reach an understanding with him, where as top players they will understand what is failing.
-It is said that he repeatedly rejected the signing of Bruno Fernandes, which was one of the many confrontations with the CEO (rumored after his farewell letter).
-He believed that football would become more and more physical, with more versatile players, and with great intensity. Nothing new for the Premier followers.
If you sign him, my first transfer bet would be Aouar.
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Where would you rank Zidane out of all the RM managers since and including Del Bosque?
 
2cents said:
I suppose the potential drawback to taking the approach you desire is the possibility that the current squad is not a good fit for any of the likely candidates to implement it, and thus we would once again require an extensive recruitment overhall and, by extension, a few more years and hundreds of millions spent for the project to begin bearing fruit.

Whereas perhaps a pragmatic, problem-solving tactician such as Zidane is exactly what our current very-talented but un-balanced squad needs in order to get the best out of what we currently have?
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And the fact that only few system managers are actually successful, even someone like Guardiola has repeatedly failed in the CL since leaving Barcelona. For the most part they don't even provide longevity.
 
Yeah, Zidane is not good enough. What has he done? He only won at Real Madrid. He has to go to Germany to win titles there with Borussia Dortmund win trebles with Nottingham Forest only then will he be good enough and worthy to take over the great Ole. Am I doing it right?
 
Whoever we bring in, give them a 2 year contract and if it’s not working/looking very promising move them on. Other coaches have shown that they can change a team in a short amount of time.
 
Would much, much prefer Conte or Ten Hag to Zidane.

Both of them are very tactically astute whilst I've heard a lot from Madrid fans that Zidane wasn't the most tactically aware of coaches and depended on very much his man-management skills which, after watching Ole, I'm not keen on at all.

Not to mention the EPL is a different kettle of fish, a league where he doesn't have a great command of English.

Conte #1 for me.
 
2cents said:
I suppose the potential drawback to taking the approach you desire is the possibility that the current squad is not a good fit for any of the likely candidates to implement it, and thus we would once again require an extensive recruitment overhall and, by extension, a few more years and hundreds of millions spent for the project to begin bearing fruit.

Whereas perhaps a pragmatic, problem-solving tactician such as Zidane is exactly what our current very-talented but un-balanced squad needs in order to get the best out of what we currently have?
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Agreed.

I mean, this guy literally tick all the boxes except for the obsession of a fixed philosophy. Which actually make him even a better candidate imo.

Strelok said:
Tbh imo the ones with some "philosophy" don't suit our current situation at all.

Defensive approach? no we want attacking football.

Possession based football? well our squad is built for fast, direct football. We'll have to buy a lot to implement that. And I guess we've had enough with LVG.

High pressing? Gegen? well the feck it's gonna work with Ronaldo up top.

So someone who has an attacking approach, know how to and can handle the big megastars, the pressure and win us things. In short, Zidane imo.
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Strelok said:
Agreed.

I mean, this guy literally tick all the boxes except for the obsession of a fixed philosophy. Which actually make him even a better candidate imo.
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The type of football you are describing simply does not work. It sounds more like sunday league stuff.
 
Hammondo said:
The type of football you are describing simply does not work. It sounds more like sunday league stuff.
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So in your opinion what type of football should I describe there?

The current trend is possession based or high pressing/ gegen pressing I think?
 
Strelok said:
So in your opinion what type of football should I describe there?

The current trend is possession based or high pressing/ gegen pressing I think?
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A team needs direction, it needs a tactical understanding of how its approaching games to win. Label that as you like, but it needs something, what was in your post was "none of the top directions could work for our players, so we should not use any", it should be the other way around, we should be picking players to suit an approach.
 
Hammondo said:
A team needs direction, it needs a tactical understanding of how its approaching games to win. Label that as you like, but it needs something, what was in your post was "none of the top directions could work for our players, so we should not use any", it should be the other way around, we should be picking players to suit an approach.
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We're talking about the current "philosophies"/approaches in football.

According to you, what kind of philosophies/ approaches should I describe there?

Something is not a philosophy or an approach.

And yes, none of the current top hyped philosophies or approaches would work for us with our current situation. So we need a pragmatic manager, who could have that something to win us things, like Zidane. You got that?

Tbh it starts to do my head talking to you.
 
DutchCruijff said:
Would much, much prefer Conte or Ten Hag to Zidane.

Both of them are very tactically astute whilst I've heard a lot from Madrid fans that Zidane wasn't the most tactically aware of coaches and depended on very much his man-management skills which, after watching Ole, I'm not keen on at all.

Not to mention the EPL is a different kettle of fish, a league where he doesn't have a great command of English.

Conte #1 for me.
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With a username like that you’d think you’d have more desire to play good attacking football.
 
Zidane saying he’d be open to managing us is like me saying I’d be open to dating Bella Hadid.

I’d rule him out just for the seeming lack of enthusiasm.
 
Strelok said:
Bang on.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. There's no fixed best tactic that would fit every teams. The best tactic is simply whatever bring out the best of the players available to you.

I've never liked the philosophy ones despite the huge recent trend and hype toward them. Imo Pep is a prime example. His philosophy worked perfectly with Xavi, Iniesta and Busquet at Barcelona. But not with Bayern and to some extend not with City. He's been trying to recreate his prime Barcelona but imo it'll never work unless he somehow would acquire a midfield one or two level above the other top midfields in Europe.
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Zidane is probably the most similar manager to SAF style at the moment (and to add he is also a very good and underrated tactician unlike ours who is like Wish.com SAF)
 
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