Yves Bissouma / Signs for Spurs

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Red the Bear said:
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@golden_blunder Sorry mate couldn't help it.
I agree that we probably shouldn't have gone for him due to the controversy, just making a dumb joke that's all : )
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No worries. These guys can all get their pants in a knot but no way United would touch him even if he was free. Clearly we haven’t been looking at him. We’re linked to every other midfielder but him
Crying over spilt milk? More like crying over rotten milk that’s still in the fridge
 
How the hell can people think that we should be in for him ? No offense to Spurs, but no one cares about what they do. The moment United are included, the whole focus would be on us. We also have our own situation to manage which we have no idea how it would turn out.

Right call to stay away. The last thing we need is a bad PR.
 
No way we was signing Bisouma after getting our fingers burnt by Greenwood who will probably never play for the club again even if he's not charged due to backlash from Womens Rights Charities, fans (our own and opposition fans) and Sponsors... hence why Bisouma is so cheap he's a £50M Premier League proven midfield player going for a bargain bin price of £25M Brighton can't wait to offload him and you have to wonder why.. It's a major risk that you could end up losing the investment..

good smart decision by the club to not touch Bisouma with a barge pole. Spurs obviously have no morals.

Brighton practically giving him away says a lot.
 
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Rozay said:
Club will deal with any situation as they arise, but United have lost no sponsors over Greenwood and lost none over Ronaldo (whose case was only dismissed yesterday). If Bissouma was on trial, my stance would be different, but he isn’t, and isn’t even under charge, so he should be allowed to live his life.

Athletes unfortunately face sexual allegations from time to time. In every high profile sport. Sponsors don’t all jump ship because of an allegation. And Manchester United themselves have had players in a similar boat, one who is a sponsor’s dream in Ronaldo. We’ve also signed Robin van Persie who was previously arrested on suspicion of rape. We’ve had Jonny Evans accused of rape while with us. It happens in the game. Spurs’ sponsors are not all going to run away now because they sign a player who isn’t even facing criminal proceedings.
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Re greenwood they all dropped him sharpish from boot deane, fifa etc. you can bet your bottom dollar sponsors would have been on the phone with United seeking assurances over their actions. They obviously got them

btw I remember Johnny Evans case being over quite quickly as the girl admitted to telling porkies
 
Rozay said:
The media haven’t mentioned it at all for 8 months, even when it was at arrest and bail stage. I cannot see them ‘having a field day’ with anything if we signed him, now that it is at a far less serious stage. They don’t even speak about Greenwood. People think that it would be acceptable for the media to just start dragging a man who hasn’t be charged with anything. It wouldn’t happen, there would be little to no mention of it at all, because the national news isn’t a blog site. They would face charges themselves if they decided to ‘have a field day’ based on unproven allegations. We’re not even allowed to discuss Greenwood’s case on fecking Redcafe. There would be no media storm at all.
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What are you talking about, they would face charges? For what? Saying that we now have two players who have had serious allegations made against them, as well Ronaldo and an ex player in Giggs. Of course it would be a talking a point, United are not missing out on this player because he is shit, we are not morons, and we have had no links to him whatsoever despite needing midfielders and him being on his last year. Its obvious that we are not looking at him at all because of the allegations. Had MG not been a problem then yeah we might have taken the chance, but there is no way the club wants to attract anymore attention for players who have been the subject of sexual allegations.
 
bond19821982 said:
How the hell can people think that we should be in for him ? No offense to Spurs, but no one cares about what they do. The moment United are included, the whole focus would be on us. We also have our own situation to manage which we have no idea how it would turn out.

Right call to stay away. The last thing we need is a bad PR.
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Not according to his legal defence team @Rozay
 
bond19821982 said:
How the hell can people think that we should be in for him ? No offense to Spurs, but no one cares about what they do. The moment United are included, the whole focus would be on us. We also have our own situation to manage which we have no idea how it would turn out.

Right call to stay away. The last thing we need is a bad PR.
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So you think if say, Liverpool, who people give a shit about, signed Bissouma - all the headlines will suddenly be about a sexual allegation? A sexual allegation that has made no headlines since it happened no less.
 
I'd actually completely forgotten all about the allegations until I clicked into this thread :lol:
 
Rozay said:
So you think if say, Liverpool, who people give a shit about, signed Bissouma - all the headlines will suddenly be about a sexual allegation? A sexual allegation that has made no headlines since it happened no less.
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Liverpool aren't already associated with the Greenwood, Ronaldo and Giggs situations, two of which are still ongoing.

It doesn't take a genius to realise the narrative would be different if in that context we signed another player still officially under investigation for a sexual assault case, on social media if not in print.

We have enough of this type of baggage as is at the moment.
 
Redcy said:
What are you talking about, they would face charges? For what? Saying that we now have two players who have had serious allegations made against them, as well Ronaldo and an ex player in Giggs. Of course it would be a talking a point, United are not missing out on this player because he is shit, we are not morons, and we have had no links to him whatsoever despite needing midfielders and him being on his last year. Its obvious that we are not looking at him at all because of the allegations. Had MG not been a problem then yeah we might have taken the chance, but there is no way the club wants to attract anymore attention for players who have been the subject of sexual allegations.
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Libel. Defamation.

Why on earth would papers start talking about allegations that have not been progressed about a player? As I said, they don’t even talk about the existing ones. How many pundits or journalists do you see openly talking about Greenwood’s case? A player who has some degree of evidence against him, is under suspension from the club and is currently on police bail. But their focus will apparently be on an unproven and unprogressed allegation against Bissouma because that’s really how the media work. They will stay a million miles away from references and inferences about Bissouma’s allegations because there are media ethical codes about such things.
 
Rozay said:
So you think if say, Liverpool, who people give a shit about, signed Bissouma - all the headlines will suddenly be about a sexual allegation? A sexual allegation that has made no headlines since it happened no less.
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They very much would. But Liverpool wouldn't touch him for that reason. There hasn't exactly been much in the press about Greenwood lately either because nothing has changed. If we sold him then they would start the articles about him again straight away. They just need an excuse.
 
sullydnl said:
Liverpool aren't already associated with the Greenwood, Ronaldo and Giggs situations, two of which are still ongoing.

It doesn't take a genius to realise the narrative would be different if in that context we signed another player still officially under investigation for a sexual assault case, on social media if not in print.

We have enough of this type of baggage as is.
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It doesn’t matter. So people only speak about such if there is seemingly a ‘pattern’, but otherwise, they wouldn’t care? So the fact that - in light of Spurs’ move for Bissouma, there has been zero mention of these allegations is because the media have all agreed that they are entitled to their one before they start talking about it? Even on social media. Even the Gooners don’t seem interested.

And Ryan Giggs has nothing to do with us in any case, all reaching now, and I heard zero word about Ronaldo when we signed him.

We don’t have any baggage. The problem is people trying to group. Even Greenwood AND Ronaldo together has not created any sort of negative reputation about Manchester United and has caused zero media conversation about any sort of pattern or ethos at our club. Much of this talk is all imaginary and unfounded to me. Stick your head outside of Redcafe and nobody has anything to say about Bissouma, which is the real reason no noise is being made about him moving to Spurs, not because it isn’t Manchester United (or Manchester City).
 
mctrials23 said:
They very much would. But Liverpool wouldn't touch him for that reason. There hasn't exactly been much in the press about Greenwood lately either because nothing has changed. If we sold him then they would start the articles about him again straight away. They just need an excuse.
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So what types of headlines do you think you would see if Liverpool signed Bissouma, a man who has not been charged with any offence?
 
Red the Bear said:
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@golden_blunder Sorry mate couldn't help it.
I agree that we probably shouldn't have gone for him due to the controversy, just making a dumb joke that's all : )
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:lol:

Hugely talented player and that is a bargain.
But could be a huge mistake from Spuds if there is any more to these allegations.
 
Rozay said:
So you think if say, Liverpool, who people give a shit about, signed Bissouma - all the headlines will suddenly be about a sexual allegation? A sexual allegation that has made no headlines since it happened no less.
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To be honest No. Liverpool are darlings of English media. The best ever team in PL. I doubt they care about them as much as us.

I don't disagree at all that he is a great player and would have been a great fit but the timing is just bad for us. We are no way committing ourselves to a second case in 6 months and rightly so.

Headlines or not, it's just not worth it.
 
Would have been good for us from a playing perspective. Isn’t it frustrating that we still haven’t scouted and bought a young talent with a similar playing profile. It’s not like our playing squad is endowed with such a player for the past 2-3 seasons.
 
Rozay said:
It doesn’t matter. So people only speak about such if there is seemingly a ‘pattern’, but otherwise, they wouldn’t care? So the fact that - in light of Spurs’ move for Bissouma, there has been zero mention of these allegations is because the media have all agreed that they are entitled to their one before they start talking about it? Even on social media. Even the Gooners don’t seem interested.

And Ryan Giggs has nothing to do with us in any case, all reaching now, and I heard zero word about Ronaldo when we signed him.

We don’t have any baggage. The problem is people trying to group. Even Greenwood AND Ronaldo together has not created any sort of negative reputation about Manchester United and has caused zero media conversation about any sort of pattern or ethos at our club. Much of this talk is all imaginary and unfounded to me. Stick your head outside of Redcafe and nobody has anything to say about Bissouma, which is the real reason no noise is being made about him moving to Spurs, not because it isn’t Manchester United (or Manchester City).
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1) There has been plenty of talk about Bissouma's situation on social media today. Just search "bissouma assault" on twitter. Just because it hasn't appeared on your timeline doesn't mean it isn't there. And that's a fraction of the discussion that would have taken place had he moved to Manchester United.

2) We are very much associated with the Giggs situation. Because aside from his past ties to the club, we made the decision to invite him into the director's box for Ronaldo's homecoming despite him having already been charged with assaulting two women at that point. And were criticised for doing so at the time. If he is convicted in the future, that criticsim will re-emerge.

3) If you think the Greenwood and Ronaldo situations haven't negatively impacted the club's reputation then you can't have been on social media over the last year. It's been a constant source of negativity and criticism towards the club and the attitudes of (some) United fans. As for the media, while they're currently forced to be circumspect due to the ongoing legal process that won't always be the situation. With it being extremely likely that Greenwood will not play for the club again even if he isn't prosecuted, there will be plenty of opportunity for the club to again be criticised for its handling of the situation once that comes to a head. Even more so if in the meantime we opt to sign another player with allegations against him.
 
CloneMC16 said:
We were never signing him with Greenwood on our books. Terrible PR. I think most teams would have been wary. Spurs are willing to take the risk. This seems to have progressed really fast. I didn't see any reports linking him to them.
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It’s an eye opener when you realise nobody cares :lol:

I mean not one single bad press about the club has happened since MG11 and neither would it continue is we signed Yves.

It’s all social media hype. The blood on the hands the club ‘probably’ has about MG11 would be eye opening (Zero to no evidence of this). But I bet it would never come to light and we will continue to make tones of money.
 
sullydnl said:
1) There has been plenty of talk about Bissouma's situation on social media today. Just search "bissouma assault" on twitter. Just because it hasn't appeared on your timeline doesn't mean it isn't there. And that's a fraction of the discussion that would have taken place had he moved to Manchester United.

2) We are very much associated with the Giggs situation. Because aside from his past ties to the club, we made the decision to invite him into the director's box for Ronaldo's homecoming despite him having already been charged with assaulting two women at that point. And were criticised for doing so at the time. If he is convicted in the future, that criticsim will re-emerge.

3) If you think the Greenwood and Ronaldo situations haven't negatively impacted the club's reputation then you can't have been on social media over the last year. It's been a constant source of negativity and criticism towards the club and the attitudes of (some) United fans. As for the media, while they're currently forced to be circumspect due to the ongoing legal process that won't always be the situation. With it being extremely likely that Greenwood will not play for the club again even if he isn't prosecuted, there will be plenty of opportunity for the club to again be criticised for its handling of the situation once that comes to a head. Even more so if in the meantime we opt to sign another player with allegations against him.
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Honestly you said it yourself. Your time line. What social media let’s you see is not always reality.

Hip Hop music trends on my YouTube all the time. I would have to believe it’s the most popular musics out here. Your YouTube might suggest different.
 
Great signing for them if he doesn't get charged. Too much of a risk for us though unfortunately, it's the right move to pass on him.
 
£30m.. the type of signing we should be building our squad with.. he's class. Very strong in the tackle and excellent on the ball, he reminds me a little of Viera.

I'm not surprised because it's long been known what our club is like when it comes to transfers. Chase after £80m players and a defender every summer when the squad needs about 6 players, and that too with a lack of any proper scouting.. just going after players the manager knows. In that sense Ragnick was right.. quelle surprise we got rid of him.

And people bringing up the sexual allegations stuff.. do you think Spurs haven't done their due diligence? He's no longer on bail, the case centres around his friend in a public night club, it wouldn't take a genius to look into the case and see what's gone on. The cheap price is because he's in the last year of his contract.
 
sullydnl said:
1) There has been plenty of talk about Bissouma's situation on social media today. Just search "bissouma assault" on twitter. Just because it hasn't appeared on your timeline doesn't mean it isn't there. And that's a fraction of the discussion that would have taken place had he moved to Manchester United.

2) We are very much associated with the Giggs situation. Because aside from his past ties to the club, we made the decision to invite him into the director's box for Ronaldo's homecoming despite him having already been charged with assaulting two women at that point. And were criticised for doing so at the time. If he is convicted in the future, that criticsim will re-emerge.

3) If you think the Greenwood and Ronaldo situations haven't negatively impacted the club's reputation then you can't have been on social media over the last year. It's been a constant source of negativity and criticism towards the club and the attitudes of (some) United fans. As for the media, while they're currently forced to be circumspect due to the ongoing legal process that won't always be the situation. With it being extremely likely that Greenwood will not play for the club again even if he isn't prosecuted, there will be plenty of opportunity for the club to again be criticised for its handling of the situation once that comes to a head. Even more so if in the meantime we opt to sign another player with allegations against him.
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I am on social media everyday. I have not seen the reputation of United damaged at all regarding Ronaldo and Greenwood. I’ve seen Mason Greenwood’s reputation damaged, and that’s about it (not even Ronaldo particularly).

My timeline isn’t tuned into pub talk, I’ve seen nobody from the media or world of sport speak about Bissouma at all today. Similarly to the fact that I haven’t seen United questioned regarding the other two. I don’t doubt that individuals may have something to say. Individuals have plenty to say about Bissouma on Redcafe, so it stands to reason. However, nobody else seems to care, the man has continued his career with Brighton seemingly without the club coming under any pressure at all, and if his recent Brighton career was mirrored at United, I would have zero problem with the level of conversation.

As for Giggs, he is accused of committing an offence years after he stopped working for us. He is his own nan, and was employed by a different football institution at the time even.

Fact is, nobody (who has any sort of voice) cares about Bissouma’s ‘case’. And I find it ridiculous to imply that the media simply don’t care about a Brighton player sexually assaulting someone but would if he simply played for Manchester United. In fact, the insinuation is that they also don’t even care about a Spurs player being accused of sexual assault, but would have only fired up their typewriters should the player join United.

Kurt Zouma of West Ham kicked a cat, with evidence, and it was a huge news story for more than a week. If Bissouma’s ‘case’ was a proper case or in anyway substantiated, there would be plenty of talk about it, especially in the wake of Brighton continuing to play him - instead of the articles they have instead written about how brilliant a player he is.
 
Rozay said:
Seemingly, ‘case or not’ either.
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Whether he has a case or not, it’s still UNCLEAR.
hence why they aren’t queuing up round the block for signing him.
it’s probably unfair but not many would take that chance with millions of pounds. Mud sticks
 
Rozay said:
Seemingly, ‘case or not’ either.
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He is still under investigation though. Surely you can see why the club would feel uneasy about going for him? It is entirely relevant to bring up Giggs, Ronaldo, Greenwood. There was loads of talk about it when Ronaldo signed, you must not have been paying attention. Greenwoods case has had a big impact though of course, and signing a player who is under investigation will inevitably be a bad look.
 
So your view Rozay is the only reason we have missed out on him is because we are incompetent? The reason dozens of teams who could have been in for him is because they are incompetent? Give me a break, you dont think his agent would not be trying to hawk him around for a better price and deal. We are not in for him because we know how it could appear and we don't want negative press. People are not talking about Greenwood right now because they could be legally held attributable for that and any impact on the case.

I already said I think its sad, because the lad has been told he has no charges to face. Unfortunately mud sticks, and its something society does to any man accused of sexual allegations, hundreds of people are affected by being publicly outed for things they didn't do. "No smoke without fire" and all that, but we are staying away solely because of that, not some ignorance or lack of competence. As a club we fear the backlash and PR it could generate.
 
Of course we couldn’t go after him. “Manutd, home of those accused of assault” The headlines write themselves. Don’t be silly.
 
FFS. He’ll be one of those Moussa Dembele type signings where we’re left scratching our heads wondering why the feck we didn’t try for him.

Ah well, Declan Rice for £150 million it is.
 
Hard to see us signing that type of player now he's gone off the market, yes I understand what people are saying about the case but don't you think Spurs looked into it.
 
So what, do Tottenham not fear the negative publicity? Where is it? Everyone's talking about a backlash but no one seems to care?

It's different for United? Please, no one cares because there's likely no case and a 5 minute discussion with the lawyer involved will tell you everything you need to know. No charges 9 months later, not on bail, the original case being a complaint against one of him or his entourage in a public club.

Everyone's too worried about PR when we should be worried about another crap window where we overpay for our new manager's ex players because we have not recruitment strategy. I don't even think we weren't looking at him because of the PR, we weren't looking at him because of how bad our recruitment department is. Look at the last 5 years, we spend £110m every year on an marquee £80m player and a £30m defender. A great player to build the team for £25m? No thanks.
 
Rozay said:
Seemingly, ‘case or not’ either.
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Yet, maybe. Under investigation still.

United brand sells… everything. Including clickbait and social media crap, there’s plenty out there already with Spurs buying him.

We buy Bissouma and it’d be tenfold, the media would lump Giggs, Greenwood and Bissouma together to create some narrative, the usual 2+2=5 with us … which would then be everywhere. Really not worth it, maybe Spurs think it is and have some clause in his contract to cover themselves if charged. Their call.
 
Lots of people getting their knickers in a twist over this one but it is impossible to judge until we see who we do end up buying this summer and even then you have to give it a season to see if our business works out and also whether Bissouma flourishes at Spurs or becomes another example of a big star from a smaller club who wilts under the expectations after a big move.

I don't believe we were ever in for him and that also goes for City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, PSG, Bayern, Madrid etc. so maybe Spurs have got a bargain or maybe he just isn't all that when all is said and done.
 
bosnian_red said:
He is still under investigation though. Surely you can see why the club would feel uneasy about going for him? It is entirely relevant to bring up Giggs, Ronaldo, Greenwood. There was loads of talk about it when Ronaldo signed, you must not have been paying attention. Greenwoods case has had a big impact though of course, and signing a player who is under investigation will inevitably be a bad look.
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Under investigation doesn’t mean anything in and of itself. We don’t even know if Bissouma directly stands accused by anyone of sexual assault. He has not been charged, despite the Police having every opportunity to do so. He has also faced no sanction by Brighton, who likely know a little more detail than ‘he is under investigation’ - and I suspect they also care about their reputation. He is also being pursued by Spurs, who I imagine have also done some basic due diligence into what ‘under investigation’ means in this particular case. And lastly, there is zero media conversation about it.

And yes, I clearly did miss ‘loads of talk’ about it when we signed Ronaldo. I saw every broadcast on the news channels and read many articles and the conversation had nothing to do with his case. Therefore, if you are telling me that the conversation was indeed happening, somewhere, it was clearly of little relevance or consequence. And this is the most famous footballer in the world we are talking about, not Yves Bissouma.

Mason Greenwood is Mason Greenwood. It seems that most people have the common sense to not equate any allegation with the word ‘sexual’ in it to ‘like Mason Greenwood’. And even Mason Greenwood has caused little to no damage to the reputation of the club. It has caused damage to the reputation of Mason Greenwood, and huge inconvenience to the football team of the club, sure.

Ultimately, I cannot buy any implication that the only reason it is not bad press for Tottenham Hotspur to sign a player under investigation for sexual assault is because they don’t currently have another player who stands accused of the ‘same’. Or because they are apparently too small of a club for the media to care about that sort of thing. I can assure you that there would be a lot of talk if they signed Mason Greenwood instead. And there in lies the difference.

And Giggs is not employed by Manchester United.
 
marktan said:
So what, do Tottenham not fear the negative publicity? Where is it? Everyone's talking about a backlash but no one seems to care?

It's different for United? Please, no one cares because there's likely no case and a 5 minute discussion with the lawyer involved will tell you everything you need to know. No charges 9 months later, not on bail, the original case being a complaint against one of him or his entourage in a public club.

Everyone's too worried about PR when we should be worried about another crap window where we overpay for our new manager's ex players because we have not recruitment strategy. I don't even think we weren't looking at him because of the PR, we weren't looking at him because of how bad our recruitment department is. Look at the last 5 years, we spend £110m every year on an marquee £80m player and a £30m defender. A great player to build the team for £25m? No thanks.
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Released under investigation is the current equivalent to bail.
 
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