Xavi Simons: any good?

Krny said:
Only seen him play live once and he was shocking. (Vs The Rangers UCL Qualifier) horrendously poor. A boy against men, not sure if he can be the level PSG are looking. I expect them to be looking to make a quick buck out of him rather than bringing him back to play.
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He was rolled into the XI fairly slowly in the first few games and was a bit hit and miss, but not long after those first few games he (and even moreso after Gakpo left) became the engine for PSV, with him ending up (shared?) top scorer in the Eredivisie not being a surprise at all.

His move is getting criticized and I kinda get it, young player moving to big club very soon/early tends to cause problems, but it's also such a black-and-white analysis.

It's Luis f'n Enrique, the biggest question is if he views him as an Iniesta type or an Olmo type. If the second he'll be tried plenty, if it's the former, he'll be a starter. If there's one coach who's player profile over player name, it's pretty much Enrique. I think it's a good choice of his to work on his talents at a higher level, though I do get how it's dependent on at least one of Neymar and Mbappé leaving, since I do think he's more of an Olmo type, and since it's not a National Team, it's pretty difficult to just ignore your big stars. ETH kinda won his chess game against CR, but that's ETH and it still didn't look too pretty.

I hope I'm right, though. His prior spell at PSG he seemed a little overrated to me (though I have to admit I didn't watch closely), but the past season he was so so good and the Enrique-timing turns this whole return around. I do hope he'll develop more as a 10, but we'll have to wait and see, since you can't get more Pep-barcaesque 4-3-3 than Enrique.

JPRouve said:
Indeed but he negotiated the deal because he didn't want to leave permanently in the first place. So while PSG and Simons could have changed their mind, they basically did what they intended to do from the beginning.
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The deal worked out very well for him, because I can imagine with Galtier staying (and Messi of course), he would've waited another year or opened up his options more by signing the new PSV contract. With the seemingly new direction PSG is going in this summer, him having a better season than he probably expected to have, especially backed up by the numbers he can show on his resume, he can walk in as one of their biggest prospects under a coach that doesn't shy away from following his vision, with less concern than average whether the players are prospects or more experienced players.
 
appleman said:
The deal worked out very well for him, because I can imagine with Galtier staying (and Messi of course), he would've waited another year or opened up his options more by signing the new PSV contract. With the seemingly new direction PSG is going in this summer, him having a better season than he probably expected to have, especially backed up by the numbers he can show on his resume, he can walk in as one of their biggest prospects under a coach that doesn't shy away from following his vision, with less concern than average whether the players are prospects or more experienced players.
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I do think Enrique's arrival changed a lot of things, because pretty much any signal before that was about him staying at PSV (and it was understandable considering Galtier had an appalling attitude towards youngsters).

The news of him coming back to PSG today was totally unexpected, not a single journalist saw it coming.

Now we'll see where he ends up, either on loan for an extra year if Neymar and Mbappé stay, or with a role at PSG (according to reports).

Him leaving on loan would be surprising to me though considering the team needs homegrown players for CL quotas.
 
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Simons isn't actually playing for PSG next season: they've loaned him out to Leipzig for the year:

 
This kid has a bit of growing left to do but some pundits are being real cnts as usual. Hyping him into the stratosphere before the game and then shitting on like he can do no good when he has a poor game. If someone doesn't see how good he is though they haven't watched him play before today.
 
Staying at Leipzig for one more season or going to Bayern, if PSG figure out how to sell without having to pay the sell-on to Eindhoven.
 
Pogba 0.5 in some sense. The guy is super talented and gifted, but very raw and not rounded. He oscillates between moments of top class, and really dumb plays a lot. He's picked two great leagues where that's afforded, but can't see him doing great in the PL/La Liga as of now.

Still very young, and seems very motivated.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Pogba 0.5 in some sense. The guy is super talented and gifted, but very raw and not rounded. He oscillates between moments of top class, and really dumb plays a lot. He's picked two great leagues where that's afforded, but can't see him doing great in the PL/La Liga as of now.

Still very young, and seems very motivated.
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Is this satire? If there's any league in which you can get aeay with bad decision making. It is the EPL.

That aside, you couldn't have given a less accurate description of Simons if you tried. Pogba, my gosh. What's next, Bellingham like Busquets?
 
Zehner said:
Is this satire? If there's any league in which you can get aeay with bad decision making. It is the EPL.

That aside, you couldn't have given a less accurate description of Simons if you tried. Pogba, my gosh. What's next, Bellingham like Busquets?
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How so?

Try reading please. It is about how Pogba was quite a bit of a highlight player at Juventus, where you could see his immense quality/talent. I feel the same with Simons. Not sure why I'm trying to explain this to you.
 
AjaxCunian said:
How so?

Try reading please. It is about how Pogba was quite a bit of a highlight player at Juventus, where you could see his immense quality/talent. I feel the same with Simons. Not sure why I'm trying to explain this to you.
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But Xavi Simons is definitely not a highlight player, he has excellent decision making and has lots and lots of good plays outside of highlights. He has a decent passing accuracy for the position he plays, he has excellent statistics in terms of ball progression, he knows when to dribble and when to release the ball. That's completely different to somebody like Pogba who had a habit of dangling on the ball and missing the right moment for a pass, especially since Pogba played in CM and Xavi in CAM.


Ish said:
Interesting. How so?
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In terms of tactics, the EPL is still the least streamlined top league. Italy has its catenaccio, Spain has its juego de posicion and Germany has its gegenpressing and while the EPL has adopted those styles by employing managers such as Guardiola, Arteta, Klopp, Conte, Pocchetino, etc., in comparison, English football is more about individual moments of brillance. Critics call that robotic but however you call it, you're definitely more in a tactical corsett and expected to make in game decisions based on the shared vision among the team. You will get called out if you don't.

IMO, the often quoted physicalness of the EPL has much to do with that. Most tactical approaches aim at creating numerical supriority in certain areas of the pitch. But in English football, one on one duels are as important as nowhere else.
 
Zehner said:
But Xavi Simons is definitely not a highlight player, he has excellent decision making and has lots and lots of good plays outside of highlights. He has a decent passing accuracy for the position he plays, he has excellent statistics in terms of ball progression, he knows when to dribble and when to release the ball. That's completely different to somebody like Pogba who had a habit of dangling on the ball and missing the right moment for a pass, especially since Pogba played in CM and Xavi in CAM.




In terms of tactics, the EPL is still the least streamlined top league. Italy has its catenaccio, Spain has its juego de posicion and Germany has its gegenpressing and while the EPL has adopted those styles by employing managers such as Guardiola, Arteta, Klopp, Conte, Pocchetino, etc., in comparison, English football is more about individual moments of brillance. Critics call that robotic but however you call it, you're definitely more in a tactical corsett and expected to make in game decisions based on the shared vision among the team. You will get called out if you don't.

IMO, the often quoted physicalness of the EPL has much to do with that. Most tactical approaches aim at creating numerical supriority in certain areas of the pitch. But in English football, one on one duels are as important as nowhere else.
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Funny that the strengths you mention, are mainly his biggest weaknesses so far for the Dutch NT. In the top 6 leagues ( PL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, Eredivisie as per UEFA-5 year ranking), from what Ive seen the Bundesliga is generally where attacking players thrive with huge amounts of space. The Bundesliga being faster than the Eredivisie and more physical, but still huge amounts of space. Whenever he doesn't get that, I find his decision making rather very poor, though his talent still evident.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Funny that the strengths you mention, are mainly his biggest weaknesses so far for the Dutch NT. In the top 6 leagues ( PL, Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, Eredivisie as per UEFA-5 year ranking), from what Ive seen the Bundesliga is generally where attacking players thrive with huge amounts of space. The Bundesliga being faster than the Eredivisie and more physical, but still huge amounts of space. Whenever he doesn't get that, I find his decision making rather very poor, though his talent still evident.
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There have always been players who couldn't reproduce their club form for their country at any point in their career, even proven worldclass players such as Aguero, Lampard or Gerrard. Simons is young and he can still turn things around, right now it could be down to nerves. He doesn't play like that for Leipzig.

Regarding the Bundesliga making attackers shine: I think that used to be a correct yet overstressed argument for years but now it is somewhat of a moot point since the Bundesliga had an average of 3.22 goals per game and the EPL 3.28. For context: The last time the Bundesliga averaged more goals per game than that was in 87/87. It's also the first time the EPL averaged more than 3 goals. But in general, I find it very superficial to approach things like this. I believe Bundesliga teams are in general more ambitious since many are trying to play high lines and enforce high turnovers. That means that the way to the goal is shorter and that you find more space inbehind. But that's not down to the league but to the team. If you played like this in the EPL, you'd produce the same situations with the same kind of space and the current all time high for the EPL is a testament to this since EPL teams have been doubling down on European tactics left, right and center.

So down to the common playstyle, it used to be the case that you find more space inbehind in the Bundesliga than in the EPL. But on the contrary, EPL clubs granted you much more time in the midfield. Sometimes when you watch a random EPL fan as a supporter of a German team, it used to look like a flashback to earlier days with so much space in the center of the pitch. That is incredibly condensed in the Bundesliga for example. There are very few teams that sit back and defend, the only really successful one (not this season, mind) being Union Berlin.
 
Scores extremely few goals for Holland, but this one looks important. Think he only has 1-2.

Would be ridiculous to jump on the bandwagon based on pretty much 1 goal.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Scores extremely few goals for Holland, but this one looks important. Think he only has 1-2.

Would be ridiculous to jump on the bandwagon based on pretty much 1 goal.
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He had a great Bundesliga campaign. He is REALLY good.
 
Acrobat7 said:
He had a great Bundesliga campaign. He is REALLY good.
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I just really doubt players from the Bundesliga if Sancho or Mkhitaryan with insane stats can’t make it here. Could be a United problem too, as Jude worked out at Real. But since we are at a United forum then players not making it here is a big risk. I just wouldnt splash big on someone like him when we already have Bruno who’s better. Transfermarkt values Simons at 80m euro and that’s just way too much imo.
 
ROFLUTION said:
I just really doubt players from the Bundesliga if Sancho or Mkhitaryan with insane stats can’t make it here. Could be a United problem too, as Jude worked out at Real. But since we are at a United forum then players not making it here is a big risk. I just wouldnt splash big on someone like him when we already have Bruno who’s better. Transfermarkt values Simons at 80m euro and that’s just way too much imo.
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There are several Buli players who made it in the PL. Therefore, I am too tired for this argument again. And again. And again. According to the German media it is between Leipzig and Bayern to sign/loan Xavi.
 
Acrobat7 said:
There are several Buli players who made it in the PL. Therefore, I am too tired for this argument again. And again. And again. According to the German media it is between Leipzig and Bayern to sign/loan Xavi.
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I understand you’re tired. Name one good signing coming from Bundesliga to United.

Here’s the list of the 5 players United signed.

Schweinsteiger
Kagawa
Sancho
Mkhitarian
Hargreaves (injured over 70% of the time)

Sure, it’s worked out for other clubs, but United have a terrible record. Only hope is to trust stats and regression to the mean.
 
ROFLUTION said:
I understand you’re tired. Name one good signing coming from Bundesliga to United.

Here’s the list of the 5 players United signed.

Schweinsteiger
Kagawa
Sancho
Mkhitarian
Hargreaves (injured over 70% of the time)

Sure, it’s worked out for other clubs, but United have a terrible record. Only hope is to trust stats and regression to the mean.
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Well, then it is because United is bad/unlucky at buying/scouting and not because Buli players are shit per se.
But as I said, it is an old and in my opinion boring discussion that I will not prolong.
 
Acrobat7 said:
There are several Buli players who made it in the PL. Therefore, I am too tired for this argument again. And again. And again. According to the German media it is between Leipzig and Bayern to sign/loan Xavi.
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I don't think he's a drastically talented player certainly not of the ilk of a Musiala or Olise who you'll observe in Germany. Comparing him with a player of similar position and profile in Olmo and there's considerable differences from a technical standpoint.

I think he's a player that will need a good system to help enhance his influence.
 
Redstain said:
I don't think he's a drastically talented player certainly not of the ilk of a Musiala or Olise who you'll observe in Germany. Comparing him with a player of similar position and profile in Olmo and there's considerable differences from a technical standpoint.

I think he's a player that will need a good system to help enhance his influence.
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Olmo is great but also 5 years older and always* injured.

* Obviously not „always“ but it is an issue: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/dani-olmo/verletzungen/spieler/293385
 
KirkDuyt said:
He's definitely all that. Not for Oranje though so far.
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Thanks for confirming KD. Thought I was going mad because I keep on hearing how good he is and then I’ve watched him almost exclusively only for your NT and he’s…been fairly meh. Assuming hes much much better at club level?
 
Ish said:
Thanks for confirming KD. Thought I was going mad because I keep on hearing how good he is and then I’ve watched him almost exclusively only for your NT and he’s…been fairly meh. Assuming hes much much better at club level?
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Yeah for sure. He just doesnt really fit Koeman's system or something.
 
ROFLUTION said:
I just really doubt players from the Bundesliga if Sancho or Mkhitaryan with insane stats can’t make it here. Could be a United problem too, as Jude worked out at Real. But since we are at a United forum then players not making it here is a big risk. I just wouldnt splash big on someone like him when we already have Bruno who’s better. Transfermarkt values Simons at 80m euro and that’s just way too much imo.
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Sadly, Bruno will have to be replaced eventually. Simons is not just one of the best #10 available, he's one of the best #10s out there period. He would be an excellent signing for us and at pre-peak age as well. It's unlikely that we can get anyone now or in the near future for that position that's a better option than him. We already missed out on Bellingham, Palmer and others as well in recent years, simply by not acting.
 
I’ve put I other pms es on here I thought United should go after Olmo, not that Simons is bad though. I thought he was going to Bayern though.
 
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