Would you take Rangnick back (As a DOF and NOT a manager)?

golden_blunder said:
Maguire great in his first season but consistency hasn’t applied to all his time here. Fail
Sancho - weak mentally. Bought for right but better on left. Fail
Bruno - really? His goals and assists alone worth every penny. Hit. whether we can build a new side with him is a different question
AWB - most improved under ETH. He’s a good fullback. Hit
DvB - just can’t adjust to PL and now injury prone. Miss. Oh and I don’t think ole picked this one.
Dialo - too soon to tell. Huge potential
James - we got our money back so what’s wasted?
Ronaldo - forced on ole by the club and was the catalyst for it all falling. Fail
Telles - overhyped. Fail
Ighalo - short term loan. Not the worst.
pellestri - too soon
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I think, you are pretty generous towards AWB. When we bought him for 50, that wasn't what it is today. It was a good amount of money and what we get for it, wasn't a hit. Granted, I wouldn't call him an outright fail but when we are honest, those things shouldn't just be binary. All in all - I would agree with your assessment. It makes the heart bleed. And while the trend has been getting more positive with ETH, I think, there is still so much room for improvement that to me, it is borderline unheard of, that the owners aren't having their guys making overhours to pay for external expertise to finally close the distance to the better teams.

GazTheLegend said:
Let me.preface this by saying it's not a hill I'm going to die on but add a bit of background.
We aren't the only football club buying players.
We aren't the only team spending hundreds of millions.
We aren't the only side who signs duds.
So if your club finishes 2nd, 3rd and second again, that means that some of those players were good enough to be better than at least another 17 teams in the league. That's logical, right? If all those players you've just mentioned were really as bad as Redcafe seems to think they are, we'd be finishing dead last every season on the fumes of the moaning alone.

Now as to whether that means they're successful because they didn't win titles I don't know. But it's my personal opinion that the players we signed under Solskjaer are better than the players we signed under Jose, van Gaal and Ten Hag, generally speaking. Yes we've had some absolute disasters on the recruitment side but here we are again under Ten Hag saying the same things as always.

I'm open to the idea that I'm wrong, like I said I'm obviously not HAPPY with any of the names you've mentioned but there'd a longer term context to think about too.
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The bolded part: no, it isn't logical. Because the league position depends not only on your own decisions but also on the decisions of the other teams, luck and coincidence. Buying Maguire for 80 million would have been a mistake even if all the other PL teams would have spent double the amount for equally good CBs. Paying 90 million for Antony would have been a mistake even if we win the league as long as Antony isn't taking a lead role in it.

I would agree with you, some of the players aren't as outright bad as they are described by frustrated fans but that doesn't make them good automatically. Not being bad doesn't mean you are good. If you pay 50 million for a fullback, that kind of does a job and is to a degree usable 5 years later, than that can be worse than paying 50 million for a fullback who really contributes to on-the-pitch success.
 
To answer the OP: yes. We are in no position to be picky, we need every help possible to get recruitment right AND to finally get something going that ensures continuety above the coach level. RR might not be the most attractive name but we are in a situation where it is better to bring in RR than bring in nobody. He has an eye for talent, he has an eye for football meta, for squad composition and he knows a thing about functional process in a football club. I'd even bring him in as a consultant to Murtough but we simply have to bring in more expertise for the football aspects. If there are people better suited than him, fine, not going to cling on him but something needs to happen.
 
Definitely not. 6 months of him being involved was more than enough.
 
Sky1981 said:
But he's not free. For 50M you'd expect something else.. at least PL ready. Not a player with such glaring weaknesses that needs 3 years to address.

And there's so much to modern full back than just tackling and defending. Why spending 50M and fixing nothing. Can we honestly say we spend 50M and the Right flank is much better than whoever before him? Even now Dalot is first choice?
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Dalot is playing because AWB is out. Last season AWB became first choice, he displaced Dalot once he was back from injury and started the vast majority of games until the end of the season. He also started this season as first choice, he was sub for Brighton and then was injured.

You're still looking at the fee wrong - you pay for the age of the player as well as the ability (look at bloody Havertz) - no one is saying he's been a revelation but you're being overly critical. If you hate AWB fine but at least have some perspective, he's a decent RB.
 
Yes.

We need to stop giving managers so much power over the recruitment policy and have an objective pair of eyes guide the process.
 
Surely we could do better, and the idea that he's some kind of hot prospect that multiple top clubs across Europe would be interested in is obviously bizarre (the guy is 65 years old, ffs).
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
Title is self-explained. We had the hottest prospect in the DOF field of Europe, shoved him into an interim manager role with power, then labelled him as a fraud because he was not a good manager.

And after 1 year, people are still scratching their heads about our football structure, the role of Murtough, why our scouts didn’t support us with good names enough…etc.
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No.

Why?
 
Obviously not going to be taking him back at this point, and it may well be as others say and he was a bluffer all along that we're better rid of. Can't help but think that's a view heavily driven by the results, though, and I can't say he was wrong in his diagnosis of the squad.

The main thing is we, as usual, went about it in the weirdest way possible. If we wanted him in to consult on the overall structure, he should've been hired as that from the start, not someone responsible for short term results. Might've got a couple of decent players out of it at least. If that would've put ten Hag off, fine, the manager shouldn't be getting involved with how we're run.
 
Definitely yes! DoF is his role and he is excellent at that. It's typical of the Glazers mis- management of the club that they employed him as an Interim Manager, understandable given the circumstances, but then sacked him from the role he was recruited to do, because disrespectful players treated him as a Supply teacher and under performed.
 
Kind of weird that if you changed this thread title to simply do you want a DoF it’d be near a 100% unanimous ‘yes’ but because it’s Ralf - who seems a bit of a prick but has a good track record - it’s very split which seems basically based on his time here as manager (which is a different job).
 
Of course I would. He was a very good DoF at Red Bull teams, just cause he is a mediocre coach doesn’t mean that he wouldn’t be an improvement on the useless Murtough.
 
gajender said:
He is so damn good that his last DOF job was in Russia I guess it's just not United but the whole footballing world who are missing out on his Genius .
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It's as simple as this really. I have no idea how people can rate this guy so highly but think that the managers we've had since SAF are totally clueless about football when they all achieved far more than RR here.

It's probably this idea that he's been credited as the inventor of gangnam style pressing, as though it was a revolutionary discovery in football that players being fitter, running more, closing down their man quicker, are things no one would ever have considered might work to your team's advantage. His genius didn't get him to the top of football, nevermind keep him there.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
Title is self-explained. We had the hottest prospect in the DOF field of Europe, shoved him into an interim manager role with power, then labelled him as a fraud because he was not a good manager.

And after 1 year, people are still scratching their heads about our football structure, the role of Murtough, why our scouts didn’t support us with good names enough…etc.
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He was due to be a consultant/DoF after, that was the agreed approach. However because he was quite open about our issues and obviously Glazers didn't want to hear anything about it, he was pushed out and paid off.
 
I possibly would but any DoF from the outside wouldn’t happen while the Glazers remain here because the Glazers don’t want their boat rocked. Their internal appointments are two or three degrees of separation from the Glazers themselves. They just want to cash the cheque and blindly throw money at it when it’s in trouble.

They just want people who smile, say yes a lot and don’t do anything that upsets their activities.
 
Wasn't he the guy behind the structure that is in place at the Redbull teams. I'm sure we can all admit he was/is right about the state of the club, he was just the only person to have the balls to say it out so openly.

A proper club is run from top to bottom. A proper CEO, a DOF, a manger and scouting team. All of them have to be on the same wavelength.

DOF should be behind the decision making of how the team should be playing and hiring a manager on that.

The manager should be communicating with the DOF and scouting team about what positions they need improving. Explain the type of player they want, is it a skillful winger or a creative one etc...

Scouting team should be out there looking at various clubs and narrowing down a list of players to bring back to the manager and DOF, giving their stats and their opinion, this includes reports on temperament and work rate etc.

Manager communicates to the DOF about what player they feel will benefit the squad going forward present and future for the team. This should include another 1 or 2 players similar if player A fails to materialise.

DOF goes to the CEO, gives them the report on the 2 or 3 players and the managers recommended for his squad. They then work together getting the transfer over the line. No fecking about, if team A doesn't seem to want to sell or are holding out, use team B and team C against them.

This all should be put into plan by the end of March, not the middle or end of the transfer window.

But it seems no one talks to each other about anything or does their homework and we act like that kid that rushes their work 5 minutes before class regardless if the work is correct or not.
 
Plant0x84 said:
This is a truly terrible post, in a frankly ridiculous thread.
Why would you want the whole club dismantled? Where are these ‘hungry youngsters’ that are ready to replace our best players? It’s widely accepted that our academy isn’t great recently. How would being more than rubbish help us rebuild? You want to be like City so bad we have to drop to League 2 to emulate their wilderness period? Do you even support United? There is very little care for the club in this post - it’s all self interested nonsense. :wenger:
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I’ll rather we’re rubbish and have players who actually want to play for us than watch the current batch of clowns who can only work hard for 20 mins each game before giving up.

It’s a fact that too many people involved in the club doesn’t deserve to be here.
 
I wouldn't take Ralf back to be honest. Our problems are far deeper than whether or not EtH has a DOF. The club needs a nuclear reboot beginning with a full sale, followed by a top to bottom assessment by the new owners and resulting long term plan. If the guys that bought City could take a smaller, perennial mid table side and turn them into 7 x league winners in 12 years then we should be able to do the same.
 
I like Ralf and appreciated his hard truths when he was here. Said the quiet parts out loud. But I think we can do better for DOF. Doesn't matter though. The entire club footballing structure needs to be gutted and re-organzied. Will never happen with the Glazers still here. The balance of the player power is so far out of whack, we're just going to keep firing managers because that's easier and less costly than selling / releasing problem players, so the cycle will continue. ETH won't last the season at this rate and we'll start again with no actual difference being made.

Also, I don't give a toss about his managerial stint with us. It was an impossible situation that nobody could have come through with any positives.
 
No.

If being able to state the obvious is all that's needed to be a good DoF, half of this site should send in their resumes then. That he pinpointed the obvious and some of the advice was not heeded (for whatever reason) doesn't make him some oracle or potentially competent DoF, it just means the people who were supposed to have listened are incompetent.
 
Absolutely. He also knows exactly what a proper, efficient football structure looks like (Leipzig) and not only that he was one of the people to set it up. The results speak for themselves - RB is a talent factory, and their directors are good enough to be poached by Bayern and Chelsea too. He would have the appropriate contacts to improve the scouting network, the recruitment, the medical team... everything.
 
What is the point in threads such as this? It’s never going to happen, so why even ask?
 
Thought it was a mistake at the time and even moreso now we've seen how naive EtH is.
 
Ragnick was pretty bad and not media savvy. Don't need another loose canon mouthing off.
 
My dream team.
1)Marina Granovskaia as negotiator for player transfer and sales.

2) Director of Football whose job is more than just identifying players, together with the manager. But who has to through delegation ensure every United team beneath the first team squad is managed and playing in the right way. This goes all the way down to our youngest age group. So he will be hiring and firing coaches and managers of our under 21, under 18 and youth teams. He will also be signing players that are close to joining the first team and those 2-10 years away from being in the first team squad. This could be Ragnick, but while he he’s great at identifying players and knows the style of play. He is a bit crap at identifying coaches.

So we have DoF managing overall Manchester United for medium and long term. Manager managing United first team squad for short, medium and ideally long term in liaison with DoF for player acquisition and how the team will line up in 2-3 season. Who will be out, who will replace say for example Varane in a 2 years.

Marina negotiates all transfers. Keeps us FFP compliant. Makes sure we don’t get ripped off for purchases and sales
 
m1tch said:
It's as simple as this really. I have no idea how people can rate this guy so highly but think that the managers we've had since SAF are totally clueless about football when they all achieved far more than RR here.

It's probably this idea that he's been credited as the inventor of gangnam style pressing, as though it was a revolutionary discovery in football that players being fitter, running more, closing down their man quicker, are things no one would ever have considered might work to your team's advantage. His genius didn't get him to the top of football, nevermind keep him there.
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Rangnick has build to clubs/club networks from the ground of lower league football on the trajectory to CL football (Hoffenheim and RB clubs lead by Leipzig). That's what people hope for - that he could build a club structure from scratch and just get rid of the current dysfunctional United setup.

Which isn't a typical DoF role, it is far more special. He definitely is a prick and loves himself speaking too much, which is why he is a bad fit as DoF for every decently organised club and didn't work in the role after leaving RB. There just are few projects that need someone like that.
 
The issue has been, and always will be, the absence of ANY strategic vision for the club. We finally put Murtough in place to presumably direct that, but who knows if he's up to the job or not. What I do know is that strategic planning often takes years to bear fruit. The lack of it is seen in how we hired successive managers with contrarian playing styles, necessitating complete overhauls of the squad.

If ETH goes, you need to pick up a coach whose style and approach is fairly similiar, but presumably he just executes it better. It is the only way to build in a singular direction and create long term success. It's not a problem changing coaches, it's a problem when the turnover of coaches doesn't conform to a singular strategy. Ultimately, right now, when you strip the club down to the bones, the only people who are constants at the club - and therefore ultimately reflective of the long term prospects of the club - are The Glazers, Arnold, Fletcher, and Murtough. That is who we rely our fates on. They are the ones responsible for institutionalising a culture and a plan. We know the Glazers are greedy cretins who know nothing about running a club, we know Arnold is a yes man appointed from within by the Glazers, we know Fletcher is in his first serious job post football, and we know Murtough has no previous DoF experience.

The only way the club will ever work is with a robust organizational culture, and a long term strategic vision. What are our competitive advantages for example? Other than spending loads of dosh? Do we recruit better than anyone else? Do we analyse data better than anyone else? Do we create a unique organisational culture better than anyone else? Do we have a proprietary plan for pre-identifying managers and screening them thoroughly? Do we have a deep spread of qualitative and quantitative metrics by which we assertain if a player is (a) the right fit on the field for a pre-determined style of play, (b) represents good value, and (c) fits culturally off the pitch within our organisational culture? The answer to all those questions is feck no.

Hence, every manager, and every player that comes through the door is ultimately going to be susceptible to the prevailing organisational culture we have, which appears to be one of commercial interest, player power, and chaotic planning. We are fecked basically, until the ownership changes, because these things come from the top.
 
Said what we all wanted to hear/ were all thinking. It's only reason why people want him as a DOF but it's not going to make him a good DOF.
 
Am I wrong in thinking he was going to be the man to bring in players for ETH without having to purge the Dutch league?
but once he saw what was behind the old Trafford curtain, thought he’d rather shit in his hands and clap ?
 
I think he's a terrible manager, but if his sole job was to identify players for the manager's system, and he was on good terms with him, be that ETH or someone else in the future, then yes, I'd probably take him back.
 
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