Would you take Conte at United?

[Bastian]

This is what I don't understand Conte's team play a much better standard of football compared to Ole's and the coaches currently at United. I think it's such a lazy argument, even if statistics show Solskjaers team has had more possession, the team are not effective on the ball which makes such a point redundant.

Conte wouldn't be my first choice but when you consider how bad this season can potentially be, it's hardly the worst option. If the DOF is supposedly in effect he should dictate the terms of player purchases and a midfielder transferred on his regard. Conte on a 1-2 year deal and using this squad is far more robust then seeing how Solskjaer fairs.

I'm not arguing he isn't a million times better than Ole. He absolutely is. I would just far far prefer someone of the ilk of ten Hag with the football he plays and I'd rather wait for titles and enjoy the football in the meanwhile (seeing young players given chances). If that means having to wait until summer, I'd rather get in an interim manager. I also don't think having such a combustible manager like Conte would mesh with the owners/board, just as with Jose.

 

[Revan]

Why does it have to be mutually exclussive? Sir Alex has shown that. Klopp has shown that. Even Spurs have show that getting a successful manager who will be here long term(as long as you back him) is more beneficial than chopping and changing every 2 years.

It does not need to be. However, long-term for the sake of long-term is a fecking disaster as we saw with Moyes and Ole.
Hire a great manager. As long as both he is happy with the club and club will him, continue the parternship. A bit like Liverpool did with Klopp.

Conte won it because there was a power vaccum at the time. There was no peak Pep, Tuchel and Klopp in the league. The second season he finished below Jose in 4th.

Both Pep and Klopp were in the league. Mourinho too.

 

[EtH]

Anyone who thinks Conte is another Mourinho is seriously deluded

True. He is neither as good as Jose in his pomp or as bad as the current version. He is however a negative manager with a toxic personality.

So there’s that.

 

[adexkola]

That is not completely true. The board checks fans' opinions, we have proof of it from last year. If fans would have been going batshit crazy as Madrid or Barca fans go, he would be out tonight.

What proof? The board checks the Caf? I have to see this.

 

[Flytan]

interim and then ten hag is the smart call but the board I doubt will have the savvy

I mean that's fine and all but we still. Have 3/4ths of the season left. Top 4 is still attainable. Interim just feels like we're giving up, we have good options out there that could still get us top 4. Give Conte a 2 year deal, if he doesn't earn the job to the level he was expected to, you fire him.

What do we have to lose? We are in a desperate situation. The club has the players to win, go for it, if it fails, deal with the aftermath later. Nothing is worse than just sitting still and doing nothing

 

[Enigma_87]

You'd think a fanbase that went through Jose Mourinho's football would be wiser than this. But nope, I keep hearing the dreaded similarities again: "He is going to win us trophies" "He is going to make us defensively solid"

Lads, he will feck off in 2 years while leaving behind the likes of Ashley Young and Lukaku. And then we'll need another rebuild and 500 million pounds to be competitive again. Antonio can feck right off.

Unlike the PE teacher that spent 450m that got us to nowhere?

It's not like having Lukaku now is worse than Mata on 160k contract sitting somewhere in his home.

 

[Revan]

What proof? The board checks the Caf? I have to see this.

European Superleague and fan invasion in Old Trafford, which among other things, made one of the Glazers directly start communicating with MUST and fan fractions.

If Old Trafford would have been booing Ole today, I think he would be off**. Instead, they cheer him, so the losers in charge would still persist with 'the plan'*.

* Let's be fair, there never was a plan.
** Before you criticize me for not going there to boo him, yes sure, but that's another debate. And yes, fans have the right to boo or cheer, whatever they want. If they cheer, for their sake, hopefully they also enjoy the match.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Don't think a manager like Conte is the answer. It's simple, get someone who's shown a propensity for success that also prefer's an attacking side. That's it. Ten Haag or Zidane are the two obvious managers for me. I like Potter too but you can't go with another completely unproven guy after this Ole run.

 

[Enigma_87]

Chelsea are being looked down upon simply because they have a sugar daddy and they can afford to burn through cash. They have no soul or morals for that matter.

Traditional teams like United and Ajax are different. You need to win with a certain style. At Ajax you need to play attacking football or your own fans are going to boo you even if you win. At United you need to do so while creating stability and promoting youth. Neither which Conte is good at.

And speaking of teams that win the CL. Both Pool and City have proven that you don't need to change manager every 2 years to be successful. Why can't we emulate them?

Pretty sure United have outspent Chelsea ever since Conte was managing them. Win with style it one of the bollocks United is in such state ever since Fergie left.

Sacking and hiring managers is the norm in the current time. Alas some continue to live like 20 years ago.

 

[Will Singh]

I’m not a Conte fan but I can’t see how thinking long term works out in today’s game? We can get Pep and he can be sacked to and then we build again, so what’s wrong with getting a manager for short term? What we need is a DOF who sticks to a long term plan for the club and we sign a certain type a player which trumps the managers choice unless it makes sense for our clubs criteria. In today’s world a manager can come and go but players stick around….

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Our fanbase needs to realise, the club needs someone to manage the team - not a step dad for the fanbase.

Find another way of getting over your daddy issues. See a therapist or something.

Couldn't have said it better.

Give me Conte. Give me someone who can slap these primadonnas about and force them to play for each other and win something. We are so far from what a team is supposed to look like its almost breathtaking we have beaten anyone at all.

I wasn't about the Conte life, now I think I feckin need it

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Unlike the PE teacher that spent 450m that got us to nowhere?

It's not like having Lukaku now is worse than Mata on 160k contract sitting somewhere in his home.

Honest question: Do you genuinely believe we have gotten no where since the Mourinho debacle? Because I look at the side that he left and the one we have currently and it's already a clear upgrade (and don't mention money because Jose spent a ton too). We also have done better than I think many expected in the league during Ole's time here. There's no doubt he needs to be sacked and clearly can't handle managing at the highest level tactically, but I have a lot more optimism in another manager being able to come in and have immediate success (a la Chelsea and Tuchel) than I did when Jose was fired.

 

[mancan92]

If you think Conte is like Mourinho or LVG then they aren't worth listening to. Both those managers were past their best. Both clearly over the hill. Not a manager who is literally on top of his game.

 

[lsd]

A manager who believes a strong midfield is the key to winning football.

Who believes his team should play with intensity and know what they are doing at all times and who will demand they take on board and do as he instructs.

Sign me up.

 

[Caesar2290]

It does not need to be. However, long-term for the sake of long-term is a fecking disaster as we saw with Moyes and Ole.
Hire a great manager. As long as both he is happy with the club and club will him, continue the parternship. A bit like Liverpool did with Klopp.

I agree. Long term based on sentimentality always leads to disaster. Ole and Moyes are excellent examples of that. Klopp and Poch are excellent example of long term based on meritocracy though. My argument was that we should strive for the second option.

From a pragmatical standpoint of view: do you trust our board to appoint the right manager?
Me neither. So why would you want them to do it on regular basis. The chances of them fecking up are only going to go up. Where as if they appoint a manager evert
Keyword is peak. Klopp and Pep were still assembling their sides at the time.

Both Pep and Klopp were in the league. Mourinho too.

Keyword here is "peak". Both Pep and Klopp were still assembling their teams at the time.

And speaking of: did you notice how most of Conte's league titles are when there is a power vaccum in the league?

His Juve side won it as both Inter and AC Milan were both losing their best players and imploding back in 2012. His Chelsea side won it the year after Leicester won it with no clear contenders for the title. His Inter side finished just 2 points above Atalanta and 2nd before Juve imploded(by appointing Pirlo) and Conte had a clear run for the league.

When you look at it from this angle, it's not that impressive really. He has yet to go head to head with the league bully and win. That's why I'm not so sure he cant take on both Pep and Klopp and win.

 

[EtH]

If you think Conte is like Mourinho or LVG then they aren't worth listening to. Both those managers were past their best. Both clearly over the hill. Not a manager who is literally on top of his game.

Yes a manager who struggles to get out of the CL group stages playing shite football and self destructs in two years time.

We could only be so lucky.

 

[Enigma_87]

Honest question: Do you genuinely believe we have gotten no where since the Mourinho debacle? Because I look at the side that he left and the one we have currently and it's already a clear upgrade (and don't mention money because Jose spent a ton too). We also have done better than I think many expected in the league during Ole's time here. There's no doubt he needs to be sacked and clearly can't handle managing at the highest level tactically, but I have a lot more optimism in another manager being able to come in and have immediate success (a la Chelsea and Tuchel) than I did when Jose was fired.

The squad is as good as the manager manages to build a team out of it. We have bunch of individuals that might be better under the next manager, might not.

AWB, Maguire don't strike me as good options for a progressive high line, high press manager. There's 100+m of investment not really there. Pogba is on the way out and a possible problem as a character if he decides to stay on. We don't have a CF (have two in their deep 30's), midfield is in shambles and Bruno's form has dropped significantly.

We have Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho and one of them should be on the bench every game, whilst all of them are at their peak or need significant game time to develop.

Zero options at RB, bar AWB who is useless going forward.

Still have players on high wages like Martial(should be sold), Mata, Bailly, Jones or very much past it or waste of space (Matic, Grant).

And then there is Cristiano who doesn't fit that well high press.

With the benefit of hindsight I'd wait a bit to call this squad a great success compared to what Mourinho left. Whose midfield btw is still our first team option 450m later.

 

[Oranges038]

What about the manager setting the blueprint, what if the results aren't good enough straightaway, how long do we give him?

Straight away? Like 4/5 games or 10 games?

 

[BlueHaze]

Would I take Conte ahead of Ole? Yes, any day of the week.

How long would it take before he fell out with the board? Probably a week...

 

[Mcking]

Straight away? Like 4/5 games or 10 games?

10-15 games, a decent amount of games to base a decision on.

 

[Rampant Red Rodriguez]

Juventus won six consecutive titles after Conte left, Chelsea has won a UEFA Champions League title since Conte left, and has one of the best squads in the league. Inter Milan are in a better position than they have ever been.

The notion that Conte would leave us with a poor squad is a common misconception based on the fact Mourinho left us in a poor condition, and Mourinho and Conte are both great, successful managers.

Just complete dickhead managers?.

Them clubs seem better run internally than us, as are Leicester, Liverpool, Brighton and every club barring WBA and Norwich. Even Newcastle will turn it around with the money they will be spending soon and organising in the offices they will be doing.


We have to progress, with or without the managers input, and that is an important reason why we are shit. As is not buying a DM this gone summer ffs

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

The squad is as good as the manager manages to build a team out of it. We have bunch of individuals that might be better under the next manager, might not.

AWB, Maguire don't strike me as good options for a progressive high line, high press manager. There's 100+m of investment not really there. Pogba is on the way out and a possible problem as a character if he decides to stay on. We don't have a CF (have two in their deep 30's), midfield is in shambles and Bruno's form has dropped significantly.

We have Greenwood, Rashford, Sancho and one of them should be on the bench every game, whilst all of them are at their peak or need significant game time to develop.

Zero options at RB, bar AWB who is useless going forward.

Still have players on high wages like Martial(should be sold), Mata, Bailly, Jones or very much past it or waste of space (Matic, Grant).

And then there is Cristiano who doesn't fit that well high press.

With the benefit of hindsight I'd wait a bit to call this squad a great success compared to what Mourinho left. Whose midfield btw is still our first team option 450m later.

I agree there are issues you can pick out with players, but my point was that this squad is a hell of a lot more malleable for whoever comes in next compared to what Jose left. Obviously the style is super disjointed and there's no cohesion, but the general level of talent is miles better I think that's hard to dispute. Who stays and fits into the next mans plans is a different discussion obviously.

 

[wolvored]

And if Ten Haag doesn't get off to a good start, then what?

Any manager coming here will get at least 2 years as long as they can get top 4. Maybe even get another chance if they dont in the first year.

 

[adexkola]

European Superleague and fan invasion in Old Trafford, which among other things, made one of the Glazers directly start communicating with MUST and fan fractions.

If Old Trafford would have been booing Ole today, I think he would be off**. Instead, they cheer him, so the losers in charge would still persist with 'the plan'*.

* Let's be fair, there never was a plan.
** Before you criticize me for not going there to boo him, yes sure, but that's another debate. And yes, fans have the right to boo or cheer, whatever they want. If they cheer, for their sake, hopefully they also enjoy the match.

Those events were interactions driven by actual fans protesting inside and outside of stadiums. It is well known that there is a gap (in terms of support for managers, other issues) between fans who are mostly online, and fans who go to games. The latter have a good amount of influence, but there's a cap on that: as a counterexample, Lampard would have stayed longer if it was up to Chelsea matchgoing fans. Their board is just ruthless. Ours isn't. They should be the target of @Skills' threads, not us online fans who's opinions don't mean shit.

If 90% of fans on here are #OleIn it has no impact on what the club does.

And of course you knew I'd ask for you to make it to the stadium to make your thoughts known but as always you're one step ahead of me.

 

[wolvored]

I agree. Long term based on sentimentality always leads to disaster. Ole and Moyes are excellent examples of that. Klopp and Poch are excellent example of long term based on meritocracy though. My argument was that we should strive for the second option.

From a pragmatical standpoint of view: do you trust our board to appoint the right manager?
Me neither. So why would you want them to do it on regular basis. The chances of them fecking up are only going to go up. Where as if they appoint a manager evert
Keyword is peak. Klopp and Pep were still assembling their sides at the time.

Keyword here is "peak". Both Pep and Klopp were still assembling their teams at the time.

And speaking of: did you notice how most of Conte's league titles are when there is a power vaccum in the league?

His Juve side won it as both Inter and AC Milan were both losing their best players and imploding back in 2012. His Chelsea side won it the year after Leicester won it with no clear contenders for the title. His Inter side finished just 2 points above Atalanta and 2nd before Juve imploded(by appointing Pirlo) and Conte had a clear run for the league.

When you look at it from this angle, it's not that impressive really. He has yet to go head to head with the league bully and win. That's why I'm not so sure he cant take on both Pep and Klopp and win.

The only bit of optimism, which I could be completely wrong, is that it would be Murtough and Fletcher bringing in the new manager if Ole isnt sacked this year. Deadwood Woodward leaves end of the year and Arnold will be taking his financial duties and M&F the footballing side.

 

[Dancfc]

I agree. Long term based on sentimentality always leads to disaster. Ole and Moyes are excellent examples of that. Klopp and Poch are excellent example of long term based on meritocracy though. My argument was that we should strive for the second option.

From a pragmatical standpoint of view: do you trust our board to appoint the right manager?
Me neither. So why would you want them to do it on regular basis. The chances of them fecking up are only going to go up. Where as if they appoint a manager evert
Keyword is peak. Klopp and Pep were still assembling their sides at the time.

Keyword here is "peak". Both Pep and Klopp were still assembling their teams at the time.

And speaking of: did you notice how most of Conte's league titles are when there is a power vaccum in the league?

His Juve side won it as both Inter and AC Milan were both losing their best players and imploding back in 2012. His Chelsea side won it the year after Leicester won it with no clear contenders for the title. His Inter side finished just 2 points above Atalanta and 2nd before Juve imploded(by appointing Pirlo) and Conte had a clear run for the league.

When you look at it from this angle, it's not that impressive really. He has yet to go head to head with the league bully and win. That's why I'm not so sure he cant take on both Pep and Klopp and win.

Surely the fact he took over a 10th place Chelsea in an absolute state counters any supposed "weaknesses" in the opponents? United, City, Liverpool and Spurs all comfortably finished above Chelsea in 2016 and strengthened further, pretty much every neutral fan and pundit said the title race that season was Jose vs Pep with Klopp as a potential dark horse. No one rated our chances going into that season whatsoever.

As for Juve, the very first season he still had to content with Milan with peak Silva and Ibra and Napoli with the Cavani, Lavezzi and Hamsik axis, it was hardly a Celtic while Rangers were in the lower leagues situation.

 

[Enigma_87]

I agree there are issues you can pick out with players, but my point was that this squad is a hell of a lot more malleable for whoever comes in next compared to what Jose left. Obviously the style is super disjointed and there's no cohesion, but the general level of talent is miles better I think that's hard to dispute. Who stays and fits into the next mans plans is a different discussion obviously.

But that's the issue though? Just having bunch of individuals doesn't make it a great team. I bet many Barca fans were salivating at the options of having Coutinho, Dembele, Griezmann, etc - the talent was there but did it realize?

It's an even worse mishmash of styles that we had since Jose left.

Take Klopp and Pep's teams. Put players like AWB, 36 years old Cristiano, Fred and McT and they won't look half as good despite being great managers. Pools midfield was nothing special individually. Hell Salah, Mane, Firmino would these guys be our top options when they went Pool?

It's not only about individual timing but also momentum and when it clicks for certain players.

You are also pinning our current squad to be an absolute success based on what certain players showed for different clubs, but that's never given.

It's like our team has been compiled from a pawn shop, there's no logic behind some of the purchases in all of our windows so far under Ole.

 

[Revan]

Those events were interactions driven by actual fans protesting inside and outside of stadiums. It is well known that there is a gap (in terms of support for managers, other issues) between fans who are mostly online, and fans who go to games. The latter have a good amount of influence, but there's a cap on that: as a counterexample, Lampard would have stayed longer if it was up to Chelsea matchgoing fans. Their board is just ruthless. Ours isn't. They should be the target of @Skills' threads, not us online fans who's opinions don't mean shit.

I think @Skills post is exactly targeted at them. Or well, to all United fans who have fetishism for the manager. With many of them being both fans who go to games, and who post here.

And of course you knew I'd ask for you to make it to the stadium to make your thoughts known but as always you're one step ahead of me.

Not an oracle, I am afraid. Just remembered that you did so the last time around.

 

[hobbers]

Inject Conte in my veins.

 

[Oranges038]

10-15 games, a decent amount of games to base a decision on.

That's what Ole got. Then he got the full time job based off those results.

 

[northender]

Conte would immediately create a more solid defence, and instill greater discipline and intensity into the way United play. He has challenged for, and won, the league at every big club he's been at.

The only doubt would be how United's midfield options would fit into his preferred system, but top managers like that find a way to make it work, like he did converting Moses into a wing back at Chelsea for example.

Would he last years and years? Probably not, but most coaches don't anymore. The days of managerial dynasties like Wenger and Ferguson are long gone. It's industry standard practice to change the head coach every few years, and I don't think United have really got their heads around that. Look at Gary Neville for example constantly harping back to the sackings of Van Gaal and Mourinho. There's no shame in a club changing the coach.

 

[Mainoldo]

Sure, I’ll explain. You obviously weren’t aware Inter were in the CL and went out in the group stage in 2019 when they came second in Serie A.

Your mistake.

Hands up I got it wrong. Was two seasons. But I stick by he hasn’t had champions league winning teams. Juve was a new team and so was Inter. New team into the Champs league that is.

 

[DutchCruijff]

We'd go straight to 3 ATB.

And you know what, that's EXACTLY what we need.

 

[lex talionis]

Don't think a manager like Conte is the answer. It's simple, get someone who's shown a propensity for success that also prefer's an attacking side. That's it. Ten Haag or Zidane are the two obvious managers for me. I like Potter too but you can't go with another completely unproven guy after this Ole run.

Zidane is available, but would he take this job? Doubtful.

 

[Rightnr]

Personally, I don't think he'd suit us ahead of a Zidane or a Ten Haag but I'd give him a caretaker job for the season and reassess afterwards - but really afterwards, not 10 games before the season ends.

The equivalent of a summer fling as a managerial appointment if you wish.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Conte is an excellent league manager. Only Pep is probably clearly better in that regard.

My worry with him is his poor record in Europe, but the talk that he'd leave us in a dismantled state is nonsense.

I'd prefer other managers, but he's an excellent manager.

 

[peridigm]

I think the club learned a lesson with Jose and won't make that mistake again. We're learning a lesson in appointing someone with United "DNA" now and hopefully won't make that mistake again.
As a matter of fact, there seems to be a trend with our last 4 managers all choosing former players as coaches.
Moyes - Neville
LVG - Giggs
Jose - Carrick
Ole - Carrick & McKenna

Can we please stop with this trend?

 

[Seij]

Conte is an excellent league manager. Only Pep is probably clearly better in that regard.

My worry with him is his poor record in Europe, but the talk that he'd leave us in a dismantled state is nonsense.

I'd prefer other managers, but he's an excellent manager.

Agreed. Has Conte left his 3 most recent clubs in shambles? Has he really left those clubs in worse shape than when he took over? Leaving on a bad term with the owners does not equal leaving the team in ruins.

I've even had someone try to tell me that Conte failed at Juventus because they were already winning league titles before him and he didn't succeed in Europe. Apparently, that person conveniently forgot that Juve finished 7th for two seasons before Conte was hired, and in his first season, he won the league without losing a single league game and started off their complete dominance in the league for a decade.

There's no "next SAF" who will win titles with us for the next 25 years. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get Conte in for short-term success and when someone who looks like a good long-term fit becomes available, decisively go for that person instead of dilly-dallying with Ole who isn't going anywhere even after spending 400M.

 

[Waynne]

Getting these managers is a stop gap fix to the underlying problems with this club.

Vision and direction.
Those are two principles the higher ups have routinely failed at for close to a decade.
Nothing, NOTHING will fundamentally change at United if we don't get someone in charge of the footballing side who has a clear vision and direction the club needs to go into.
Firing/hiring managers will ultimately bring us back to the same state disjointed state we are currently in.

I don't want Ten Hag. I don't want Conte or Zidane. Give me a best in class director of football with a clearly defined vision. Back him with every penny the club can afford and the rest will fall into place.
It might take another 2-3 years to bear fruit but you at least know we have some sort of an identity on and off the pitch.

 

[Daengophile]

I’ve been against it but maybe this side could do with a defensive coach to implement some actual structure - and a manager who doesn’t indulge everyone.

That hits the nail on the head