Would you sell Pogba to finance a deal for Sancho?

[Carl]

If Pogba wants to stay then absolutely not. A midfielf of Pogba, Bruno and Matic/Fred/McSauce had potential to be excellent.

However, if he wants out then we should absolutely move him on. Especially if it means sorting out our right wing problem.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't really follow the OP but my answer would be no. Simply because one player wouldn't be enough, it would make no sense to definitely weaken one area just to potentially improve an other one. Now if you tell me that Sancho is the only RW available and that you can bring a cheaper player that can match or surpass Pogba then yes.

 

[dalriada]

Fosu-Mensah's loan spells at Palace and Fulham were indeed terrible. Absolute nightmare. I just can't see someone who hardly starts in bottom teams could earn a place at United.

At both clubs he seems to have started out very promisingly then faded as the season progressed - he played 24 matches at Palace but very little after February. At Fulham he played 13 times, then seems to have fallen out of favour with Ranieri, but his injuries make conclusions difficult. I wouldn't judge a player solely on loan performances - some clubs use loan players well, others very poorly. I think, from what I saw in the second team, he merits the year extension if Ole wants to assess him.

Fulham were a rabble that season, but I wouldn't call Palace under Hodgson a bottom team, although I accept they were playing badly under De Boer when TFM arrived there.

 

[seegoblu]

Sancho is not the only solution to our RW problem. He might be ideal (young, English and talented) but he is not the only player who can slot in and make the position theirs.

So, if the only way to afford Sancho is to sell Pogba AND Pogba wants to go, THEN you sell Pogba take the existing transfer kitty PLUS the Pogba sale proceeds and allocate them between RW and a creative CM replacement for Pogba. What would that look like? Perhaps Sancho and Camavinga.

If, however, Pogba wants to stay then I would devote the transfer kitty to a RW. Who you target really depends on the amount of the kitty. Is there enough to get Torres from Valencia? Chiesa from Fiorentina? Dembele from Barca? A loan for Coutinho?

What I wouldn't want to happen is for Pogba to stay for a year while we try to fix our RW with a "less than Sancho" option, and then Pogba leaves in 2021 and we are then potentially worse off in two positions than had Pogba been sold this summer.

 

[hmchan]

At both clubs he seems to have started out very promisingly then faded as the season progressed - he played 24 matches at Palace but very little after February. At Fulham he played 13 times, then seems to have fallen out of favour with Ranieri, but his injuries make conclusions difficult. I wouldn't judge a player solely on loan performances - some clubs use loan players well, others very poorly. I think, from what I saw in the second team, he merits the year extension if Ole wants to assess him.

Fulham were a rabble that season, but I wouldn't call Palace under Hodgson a bottom team, although I accept they were playing badly under De Boer when TFM arrived there.

I agree some clubs don't use loan players well, but for me loan performance eventually reveals whether a player deserves a chance in the first team, and that's the purpose of loaning out the player in the first place. Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck were regular starters and performed excellently in their respective loan spell, that's why they caught Fergie's eyes and earned themselves a place at United. If a player struggles in a weaker team, I don't think he has the quality to play for the parent club with a higher ambition.

The gap between U23 football and first team is really huge (especially after our relegation), that's why players have to be loaned out to prove themselves and develop. Chong has been magnificent in the U23 over the past few years, but he is nowhere near the required standard for the first team. Pereira, arguably one of our worst players nowadays, was our Reserve Team Player of the Year. There are so many examples showing that the level of U23 football is just too low to judge a player.

I admit I haven't seen Fosu-Mensah's performance in the youth team, but I basically watched every of his game at Palace and Fulham. His defensive positioning, tackling and one-on-one defending were absolutely terrible and he was directly responsible to many conceded goals. He just managed to play just because there were so many injured players, and he became out of favor due to the emergence of Wan-Bissaka.

 

[DSG]

What's the problem of having 2 creators in midfield? You still have an extra slot for that Fabinho type of player to protect the defence, just like Fernandinho + de Bruyne + Silva for City. Prioritizing the money on Sancho is one thing, and it totally depends on personal preference, but we certainly need another creator in midfield. In the past few years, Pogba has been the only creator in midfield, which is one of the reasons why we struggle to break down defences. The first part just doesn't make sense to me.

It’s not that having an extra creator is bad. It’s not. But when that extra creator doesn’t track back defensively or give effort defensively, especially in such a deep position, it’s hard to justify playing him there.

Our defensive record is much better this year. Part of that is the additions on the defensive unit. Part of it is Pogba has played very little and his replacements are much more active defensively.

 

[Red00012]

My own opinion is that if Pogba wants to go then yes. If he thinks Manchester is his home then no.

 

[Pavl3n]

Sancho is not the only solution to our RW problem. He might be ideal (young, English and talented) but he is not the only player who can slot in and make the position theirs.

So, if the only way to afford Sancho is to sell Pogba AND Pogba wants to go, THEN you sell Pogba take the existing transfer kitty PLUS the Pogba sale proceeds and allocate them between RW and a creative CM replacement for Pogba. What would that look like? Perhaps Sancho and Camavinga.

If, however, Pogba wants to stay then I would devote the transfer kitty to a RW. Who you target really depends on the amount of the kitty. Is there enough to get Torres from Valencia? Chiesa from Fiorentina? Dembele from Barca? A loan for Coutinho?

What I wouldn't want to happen is for Pogba to stay for a year while we try to fix our RW with a "less than Sancho" option, and then Pogba leaves in 2021 and we are then potentially worse off in two positions than had Pogba been sold this summer.

No one wants that to happen, but people can imagine that happening, because such scenario feels like United of the past 4-5 seasons.

I just watched the Romano interview on the United Stand and he talked both about Sancho and Pogba.
First off, Sancho is our top target. As Romano said, we are in love with him and he's a top target, however the whole COVID situation has put uncertainty on this transfer. Dortmund want the money, nobody knows when football will be played, nor when transfer window will be opened.
With regards Pogba, he hasn't made his mind - does he stay, does he leave? I think the whole Mourinho confrontation pushed Pogba towards thinking about a transfer and you don't need to give Raiola a second chance to start working on a move. Juve want their big transfer for the next summer window and their target is Pogba. Real are also very interested, but last summer was a bit too early for his transfer, so they'll jump in the mix. Which is sort of good news, because we can start a bidding war.


However Ole jumps in the mix here. The whole feel about our team, the most recent transfers, the success Bruno has had, the good run we had before season halts, introduction of Mason and his apparent trajectory of improvement, Martial and Rashford's obvious improvements and the clear desire to sign Sancho, who seems like he would slot perfectly on the right wing, has held Pogba sat right on the fence. On top of all, COVID has hit a lot of teams financialy and as Romano mentioned in that interview, a lot of teams will be trying to do player swap deals, rather than straight cash deals (even if the structured installments fall somewhen in the future).

Hypothetically, if there was no COVID and all we had to worry is how to get money to sign Sancho - I might be open to sell Pogba to fund Sancho's deal. Especially since we have Bruno.
But in that situation - it will be really hard to pull off a deal for Pogba.

I think he stays. And if we manage to somehow collect 30-40m by offloading Lingard, Jones, Rojo and Sanchez(although he might only go on loan again) then we could invest the difference and bring Sancho as the only signing this coming transfer window.

 

[hmchan]

It’s not that having an extra creator is bad. It’s not. But when that extra creator doesn’t track back defensively or give effort defensively, especially in such a deep position, it’s hard to justify playing him there.

Our defensive record is much better this year. Part of that is the additions on the defensive unit. Part of it is Pogba has played very little and his replacements are much more active defensively.

We had the second best defensive records in the league in 16/17 and 17/18, conceding only 29 and 28 goals respectively with Pogba as a regular starter. This season with the introduction of Maguire and Wan-Bissaka we have conceded 30 with 9 games to play. Is it really much better? You may argue that he doesn't have the best defensive awareness and workrate, but on the other hand I don't think he is that poor defensively. Statistically, he had more defensive partcipation than many highly-rated no. 8 such as Yaya Toure.

 

[MadDogg]

It’s not that having an extra creator is bad. It’s not. But when that extra creator doesn’t track back defensively or give effort defensively, especially in such a deep position, it’s hard to justify playing him there.

Our defensive record is much better this year. Part of that is the additions on the defensive unit. Part of it is Pogba has played very little and his replacements are much more active defensively.

Our defensive record was much better in 16/17 and 17/18 than it is this season. Last season is the bigger outlier and shouldn't be included in these discussions because we had a manager who was deliberately fecking us over to make a point in the first half of the season, a defensive midfielder who was terrible all season and a goalkeeper who was average for most of the season and then atrocious in the last few months.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Lots of rumours last few days of clubs stepping up interest in him. One or two sources saying he won't sign a new deal at the club either.

Bruno was signed to replace him. People just can't bring themselves to admit it. If he doesn't sign a new deal this summer then next summer is value will drop like a stone as all we will have left on him is the automatic 1 year extension clause. He's got to be sold for me. He clearly wants out and no way should we be giving him Sanchez money and risking destroying the squad harmony again.

Fanboys are going to have to come to terms with his departure eventually. I've been watching United 30 years and seen better players than him leave us in the past.

 

[dalriada]

I agree some clubs don't use loan players well, but for me loan performance eventually reveals whether a player deserves a chance in the first team, and that's the purpose of loaning out the player in the first place. Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck were regular starters and performed excellently in their respective loan spell, that's why they caught Fergie's eyes and earned themselves a place at United. If a player struggles in a weaker team, I don't think he has the quality to play for the parent club with a higher ambition.

The gap between U23 football and first team is really huge (especially after our relegation), that's why players have to be loaned out to prove themselves and develop. Chong has been magnificent in the U23 over the past few years, but he is nowhere near the required standard for the first team. Pereira, arguably one of our worst players nowadays, was our Reserve Team Player of the Year. There are so many examples showing that the level of U23 football is just too low to judge a player.

I admit I haven't seen Fosu-Mensah's performance in the youth team, but I basically watched every of his game at Palace and Fulham. His defensive positioning, tackling and one-on-one defending were absolutely terrible and he was directly responsible to many conceded goals. He just managed to play just because there were so many injured players, and he became out of favor due to the emergence of Wan-Bissaka.

At the risk of going too much off-topic in a Pogba v Sancho posting:

OK, interesting to see your view having watched his matches at Palace and Fulham, which I admit I haven't, but your criticisms coincide with what I've seen from some Palace supporters.

I agree with your general points about the purpose of loaning out and the level of U23 in their second tier, which are well argued. Nonetheless, I wouldn't judge him solely on his record at a loan club, and I suspect that's the reason for the one-year extension - he's been out a while following knee surgery, so Ole and his staff maybe want a look at him in their own environment before they decide whether he stays or goes. With talk of a tempting offer for Dalot and the probable departure of Rojo and perhaps Jones, maybe he's also being kept as backup.

 

[rotherham_red]

Lots of rumours last few days of clubs stepping up interest in him. One or two sources saying he won't sign a new deal at the club either.

Bruno was signed to replace him. People just can't bring themselves to admit it. If he doesn't sign a new deal this summer then next summer is value will drop like a stone as all we will have left on him is the automatic 1 year extension clause. He's got to be sold for me. He clearly wants out and no way should we be giving him Sanchez money and risking destroying the squad harmony again.

Fanboys are going to have to come to terms with his departure eventually. I've been watching United 30 years and seen better players than him leave us in the past.

Where are you hearing that? Juve have already seemingly dropped out of the race as per Paratici's comments, and Madrid have their own financial issues with Covid-19 and the stadium redevelopment.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Where are you hearing that? Juve have already seemingly dropped out of the race as per Paratici's comments, and Madrid have their own financial issues with Covid-19 and the stadium redevelopment.

Juve and Madrid continue to be linked with him almost daily. Inter rumoured to be interested too.

At the end of the day its all speculation but if he is planning on staying why hasn't he signed a new deal and why does his brother and agent never shup the F up about him wanting to go?

I honestly think we have to take a page out of Liverpools book. Suarez wanted out so they flogged him. Coutinho did too and so he left. They have never looked back once. No player is bigger than this club.

 

[Dve]

According to Paul Ince, we should sell Pogba, but not sign Sancho. For him, that´s win win.

 

[Shimo]

Lots of rumours last few days of clubs stepping up interest in him. One or two sources saying he won't sign a new deal at the club either.

Bruno was signed to replace him. People just can't bring themselves to admit it. If he doesn't sign a new deal this summer then next summer is value will drop like a stone as all we will have left on him is the automatic 1 year extension clause. He's got to be sold for me. He clearly wants out and no way should we be giving him Sanchez money and risking destroying the squad harmony again.

Fanboys are going to have to come to terms with his departure eventually. I've been watching United 30 years and seen better players than him leave us in the past.

Think it's more of a case of wishful thinking on your part. Bruno was bought as a much replacement for Pogba as much as Harry Maguire was, as in he wasn't at least under Ole. Bruno from the off took the place of Lingard/Perreira who were starting in the #10 position, both of whom were on the bench or in the stands once he arrived. Had he been bought as replacement for Pogba, he'd have slotted into where Fred has been playing.

Just do yourself a favor and accept he is going to stay, whether he really wants to go or not is irrelevant, neither Juve or Madrid wanted to pay what it would have taken last summer and they certainly are not going to now.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

According to Paul Ince, we should sell Pogba, but not sign Sancho. For him, that´s win win.

If Pogba doesn't want to be here and won't sign a new deal then we should flog him as his value will be very low next summer. This might be our last chance to get a decent price for him.

As for Sancho...... He's talking nonsense. He's perfect for how Ole has us playing. However the season being in the balance and Covid-19 might stop that happening.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Think it's more of a case of wishful thinking on your part. Bruno was bought as a much replacement for Pogba as much as Harry Maguire was, as in he wasn't at least under Ole. Bruno from the off took the place of Lingard/Perreira who were starting in the #10 position, both of whom were on the bench or in the stands once he arrived. Had he been bought as replacement for Pogba, he'd have slotted into where Fred has been playing.

Just do yourself a favor and accept he is going to stay, whether he really wants to go or not is irrelevant, neither Juve or Madrid wanted to pay what it would have taken last summer and they certainly are not going to now.

Im sorry but when we signed Bruno in January it looked 100% sure Pogba was off this summer and he still might be.

No doubt if he stays another year because the virus stops his move happening you lot will be taking that as his undying love for the club etc. You're the ones who are boring.

 

[JPRouve]

Im sorry but when we signed Bruno in January it looked 100% sure Pogba was off this summer and he still might be.

No doubt if he stays another year because the virus stops his move happening you lot will be taking that as his undying love for the club etc. You're the ones who are boring.

It never looked 100% sure that Pogba was off, I have never understood how anyone ended with that certitude.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

It never looked 100% sure that Pogba was off, I have never understood how anyone ended with that certitude.

Only the endless comments from his own brother and agent, not to forget the endless speculation, but yeah you must be right. Hahahahaha.

Honest to god..... What has Pogba been doing on his socials to brainwash you all? He clearly wants to leave. Why can't you admit it?

 

[davidmichael]

Would people be happy if we got £50 million plus Valverde from Real or £70 million plus Rabiot from Juve ? I’d love Valverde from what I’ve seen of him and him alongside either Fred or McTominay with Fernandes further ahead could be perfect.

 

[romufc]

Would people be happy if we got £50 million plus Valverde from Real or £70 million plus Rabiot from Juve ? I’d love Valverde from what I’ve seen of him and him alongside either Fred or McTominay with Fernandes further ahead could be perfect.

£50m and Valverde would be great but I doubt Real will give us Valverde. They probably offer us players like Bale, Kroos, James which is a no go.

Rabiot is more trouble than is worth tbh.

 

[Mr. Christian]

I know that there’s a separate thread for both these players in this forum,but this is a very specific question,hence I”ve decided to start this thread.Theres been a lot of speculation recently that United can’t sign big,unless they sell big this summer...So the only way how we can possibly stump up the cash for Sancho would be to sell Pogba.Would you personally be in favour of such a move??

I personally think that the arrival of Fernandez has significantly reduced the importance of Pogba.I actually reckon we desperately need a top quality RW more than a player like Pogba...A front 3 of Rashford,Martial and Sancho(with Greenwood consistently getting games) could be a formidable attacking unit.All 3 of them can interchange and the fluidity of this formation can wreak havoc on most defences.I would personally be in favour of selling Pogba to finance Sancho.Whats your view?

In short... Yes.
As talented as Pogba is, does he really want to play for Utd? With the arrival of Fernandez especially, Sancho would be an exceptional acquisition. If Pogba wants to commit to Utd then we have to see.

Namely, how he performs when the league starts again and if he wants a new contract.

I think a big problem is his agent, the rotund pizza man who appears to be more interested in money than anything else!

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

In short... Yes.
As talented as Pogba is, does he really want to play for Utd? With the arrival of Fernandez especially, Sancho would be an exceptional acquisition. If Pogba wants to commit to Utd then we have to see.

Namely, how he performs when the league starts again and if he wants a new contract.

I think a big problem is his agent, the rotund pizza man who appears to be more interested in money than anything else!

His agent is the main problem no doubt. But the 2nd problem after his agent is actually us not be able to challenge or win major trophies. The main reason he came here was because he believed we could win EPL & CL especially under Mourinho. He's 27 and was 26 last year, he realised that he needs to win something especially when initially when he joined, he spoke about winning ballon dor and last year, he didn't think we could win something.

Don't know whether he's changing his mind now after watching us beating lot of top teams. Ole might be able to convince him that "you will be the final piece for us to challenge the league since we keep losing points against the outside top 6 teams".

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

No.

Sancho is a creator. Bruno is a creator. We don’t need Pogba as a creator in a deep lying role. We need a Fabinho type who is a shield for the back 4 and transitions the ball quickly from defense to attack.

You are another who doesn't get it. Apart from lack of a right winger. The reason United has so many issues is the center of midfield has only 1 creative player. Whilst every other competive opponent has at least 2. That is why we tend to finish behind them.

I find it hilarious that people seriously think Sancho would get adequate supply to operate further upfield if the only creative outlet in midfiell was taken out.

Rashford, Martial and Greenwood are finishers. Sancho is needed to unlock the defense.

not when his supply lines could be very easily shut off...

 

[croadyman]

You are another who doesn't get it. Apart from lack of a right winger. The reason United has so many issues is the center of midfield has only 1 creative player. Whilst every other competive opponent has at least 2. That is why we tend to finish behind them.

I find it hilarious that people seriously think Sancho would get adequate supply to operate further upfield if the only creative outlet in midfiell was taken out.


not when his supply lines could be very easily shut off...

Yeah there is absolutely no doubt that we still need another midfield creative outlet if Pogba leaves whether Sancho signs or not.

 

[UpWithRivers]

If Pogba doesnt go then he must sign a new contract. Raiola is a snake. Fact. If he cant get Pogba out he will just say wait till next year and then you will have 1 year left and Utd will be forced to sell. Or wait 2 years and go on a free and ask for whatever wages you like. Im quite sure this is the way its going to go. Its a stupid idea to swap Pogba for Sancho. You are weakening and strengthening at the same time so staying static. But its simple. Hey Pogba we want you to stay. Heres a new contract. What do you think? No? Ok. Bye Bye.

 

[Jeppers7]

Pogba has been replaced. He's called Bruno. We signed Bruno in January knowing that Pogba would very likely be leaving in the summer and then Covid-19 happened. So Pogba might have to stay yet again. And we probably won't be getting Sancho.

If you look at where they both play, ones a 6-8, the other is 8-10. Very different players.

 

[Norris]

Yes. In a heartbeat.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

If you look at where they both play, ones a 6-8, the other is 8-10. Very different players.

This is over simplistic. Bruno can play both roles as he plays deeper for Portugal. Also Pogba hasn't signed a new contract and he could and probably still will leave us.

Also Pogbas best 4 months in a red shirt came from further forward where he was excellent. I have never thought he was that good from deep. He gives the ball away in bad areas at times by trying too much. He also loses his man and doesn't track runs and it costs us goals.

Madrid again linked with him today. Juve and Inter said to want him. If he wants to stay why hasn't he signed a new deal?

 

[EireRed_GS]

yes.

as good as pogba can be when he wants to be, and how much i would love to see him get playing beside Bruno.... As long as his agent is pulling the strings, i'd get rid.

I just wouldnt be bothered with the club and dressing room being disrupted every season when the same old shite pops up again and again. The clubs better off moving forward without having to stop to deal with that every now and again

 

[ivaldo]

This is over simplistic. Bruno can play both roles as he plays deeper for Portugal. Also Pogba hasn't signed a new contract and he could and probably still will leave us.

Also Pogbas best 4 months in a red shirt came from further forward where he was excellent. I have never thought he was that good from deep. He gives the ball away in bad areas at times by trying too much. He also loses his man and doesn't track runs and it costs us goals.

Madrid again linked with him today. Juve and Inter said to want him. If he wants to stay why hasn't he signed a new deal?

You start off by saying the poster is being overly simplistic in his approach and then end with this.

As for trying too much and giving the ball away from deep; you can't pass to what isn't there. The creative burden was solely on Pogba. It was his job to make everything happen, and I mean everything. We are actually seeing some structure and fluidity in our play now. Players are finding space, off the ball movement is more intelligent. Put Pogba into the team over our last 10 games and he'd be significantly improved. Put him in a team with someone like Bruno and it could be magical.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

You start off by saying the poster is being overly simplistic in his approach and then end with this.

As for trying too much and giving the ball away from deep; you can't pass to what isn't there. The creative burden was solely on Pogba. It was his job to make everything happen, and I mean everything. We are actually seeing some structure and fluidity in our play now. Players are finding space, off the ball movement is more intelligent. Put Pogba into the team over our last 10 games and he'd be significantly improved. Put him in a team with someone like Bruno and it could be magical.

Dont want him anywhere near our team whilst his brother and agent don't shut up about him wanting to go to Spain or Italy. These are people he can control and tell them to stop but he doesn't.

Squad morale best it's been for ages.

 

[DSG]

We had the second best defensive records in the league in 16/17 and 17/18, conceding only 29 and 28 goals respectively with Pogba as a regular starter. This season with the introduction of Maguire and Wan-Bissaka we have conceded 30 with 9 games to play. Is it really much better? You may argue that he doesn't have the best defensive awareness and workrate, but on the other hand I don't think he is that poor defensively. Statistically, he had more defensive partcipation than many highly-rated no. 8 such as Yaya Toure.

Our defensive record was much better in 16/17 and 17/18 than it is this season. Last season is the bigger outlier and shouldn't be included in these discussions because we had a manager who was deliberately fecking us over to make a point in the first half of the season, a defensive midfielder who was terrible all season and a goalkeeper who was average for most of the season and then atrocious in the last few months.

A few things here...

Tactically, Jose set us up to not concede in those seasons. A big striker, emphasis on pure strength. I would argue that Pogba was pretty damn irresponsible in that system, hence his ongoing feud with Jose. I would venture a guess that we conceded more than Mourinho’s previous teams, and that was partly due to Pogba.

Secondly, there is the eye test. Pogba frankly did not give a shit when we were playing tough away matches at mid table clubs. He’s soft. It’s not like this is a new opinion. The pundits have been saying this for two years.

He cost, what, 89m? Plus his wages of 300k per week. Plus he’s injured fairly frequently. Plus his agent is a twat. Plus he’s not a leader. And he always wants out. And defensively, he’s indifferent.

Does he have moments of brilliance? Yes! Is he a top 10 talent? Yes, probably. That doesn’t mean that we are a better TEAM without him.

 

[DSG]

You are another who doesn't get it. Apart from lack of a right winger. The reason United has so many issues is the center of midfield has only 1 creative player. Whilst every other competive opponent has at least 2. That is why we tend to finish behind them.

I find it hilarious that people seriously think Sancho would get adequate supply to operate further upfield if the only creative outlet in midfiell was taken out.


not when his supply lines could be very easily shut off...

I guess my definition of creative player and yours are different. To me, a distributor is not a creative player, just ensuring ball movement to the creatives.

I concede that City has multiple creative players, and have the great fortune of having KDB, who is both creative and defensively sound.

I’m trying to figure out who is the creative midfielder in the Liverpool side...

Chelsea? Mason Mount and then Kante/Kovacic and Jorginho (both distributors).

Leicester, Maddison, then Ndidi and Tielemans, both distributors.

Arsenal, with Guendouzi and Torreira as distributors. Ceballos and Ozil...

If you’ve watched Dortmund, you’ll see they use a midfield 3 of Delaney, Witsel and Brandt. Sancho is their main creator, and the midfield tries to distribute to Sancho and Hazard. Witsel is particularly excellent in this role in my opinion.

My point is that much of the creativity to unlock defenses has moved out to the wings. Secondly, since quick counter attacking and the high press has entered the game, you need at least two high work rate, disciplined midfielders who can support a high press as well as have the defensive awareness to break up quick counter attackers and get back quickly to defend. That’s not really what Pogba is good at.

 

[MadDogg]

Does he have moments of brilliance? Yes! Is he a top 10 talent? Yes, probably. That doesn’t mean that we are a better TEAM without him.

Perhaps we should give him a chance to show what he can do when the actual team around him is decent. During his time here he has had to contribute almost every single bit of creativity and control of the team all by himself. His midfield partners haven't contributed to that at all, the attackers ahead of him have consistently been poor at giving him options or taking advantage of the chances he has given them, and in general the shape of the team when we have had the ball has been atrocious. Pretty much every time over the years that the rest of the team have risen to the occasion for a good period, Pogba has shone arguably the brightest. So now that we have Bruno to share the creative duties, Rashford developing into a top player and hopefully Martial doing the same up front, plus Ole of course actually encouraging us to attack, it'll be interesting to see if that gives Pogba the foundation to significantly improve his consistency.

Now I certainly have question marks over whether a three man midfield with both he and Bruno will work (without also signing an out and out defensive midfielder), but I'd like to see it given a chance before forgetting it. The potential upside if it does work is huge.

Of course it will ultimately depend on whether he wants to stay or leave. If we do get this season going again and things simply don't work, I expect he'll still want to leave and we will look to do so if we get a good offer. I don't blame him for that as he'll have been here for four years where we've been shit - almost all top players would want to leave in that situation. On the other hand if it does work and we play good football and get back into the CL for the following season, there's a fair chance he'd like to stay here now that it looks like we're finally getting our shit together. And of course if that has happened then it means that Pogba has slotted back into the team and done well on both the individual level and contributed well to the team.

 

[DSG]

Perhaps we should give him a chance to show what he can do when the actual team around him is decent. During his time here he has had to contribute almost every single bit of creativity and control of the team all by himself. His midfield partners haven't contributed to that at all, the attackers ahead of him have consistently been poor at giving him options or taking advantage of the chances he has given them, and in general the shape of the team when we have had the ball has been atrocious. Pretty much every time over the years that the rest of the team have risen to the occasion for a good period, Pogba has shone arguably the brightest. So now that we have Bruno to share the creative duties, Rashford developing into a top player and hopefully Martial doing the same up front, plus Ole of course actually encouraging us to attack, it'll be interesting to see if that gives Pogba the foundation to significantly improve his consistency.

Now I certainly have question marks over whether a three man midfield with both he and Bruno will work (without also signing an out and out defensive midfielder), but I'd like to see it given a chance before forgetting it. The potential upside if it does work is huge.

Of course it will ultimately depend on whether he wants to stay or leave. If we do get this season going again and things simply don't work, I expect he'll still want to leave and we will look to do so if we get a good offer. I don't blame him for that as he'll have been here for four years where we've been shit - almost all top players would want to leave in that situation. On the other hand if it does work and we play good football and get back into the CL for the following season, there's a fair chance he'd like to stay here now that it looks like we're finally getting our shit together. And of course if that has happened then it means that Pogba has slotted back into the team and done well on both the individual level and contributed well to the team.

I don't disagree with what you've said here.

Clearly, if we don't need him to finance a move for Sancho, maybe you keep him. I'm not AGAINST trying him out in a side that includes Fernandes and Sancho.

I was responding to the OP who asks a legitimate question: If you could have either Pogba or Sancho in the side, but can't have both, who would you want?

For me, it's Sancho and it's not close. I think his impact will be greater than a healthy Pogba playing as part of a pivot in a 3 man midfield.

 

[MadDogg]

I don't disagree with what you've said here.

Clearly, if we don't need him to finance a move for Sancho, maybe you keep him. I'm not AGAINST trying him out in a side that includes Fernandes and Sancho.

I was responding to the OP who asks a legitimate question: If you could have either Pogba or Sancho in the side, but can't have both, who would you want?

For me, it's Sancho and it's not close. I think his impact will be greater than a healthy Pogba playing as part of a pivot in a 3 man midfield.

I'm tempted to agree, but I don't think the deal hangs on selling Pogba. I believe we can buy Sancho with the money we have (plus what we make from selling Smalling and a couple of other squad players), but perhaps any significant deal after that might depend on Pogba.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don't disagree with what you've said here.

Clearly, if we don't need him to finance a move for Sancho, maybe you keep him. I'm not AGAINST trying him out in a side that includes Fernandes and Sancho.

I was responding to the OP who asks a legitimate question: If you could have either Pogba or Sancho in the side, but can't have both, who would you want?

For me, it's Sancho and it's not close. I think his impact will be greater than a healthy Pogba playing as part of a pivot in a 3 man midfield.

I don't think it's that easy to say. Juventus' Pogba looked like a beast because he played in a functional and complementary midfield, and I think it's the same for Sancho right now with Dortmund's attack. And that's not to diminish either of their talents, but it's more to say it's hard to tell their actual impact until they play in our team.

If Sancho were to sign he'd be one of our best attackers, but it remains to be seen if he'll actually live up to the now sky high expectations. Pogba is one of our best performers, yet is seen as a disappointment due to the massive expectations. Hopefully the same isn't repeated for Sancho.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I guess my definition of creative player and yours are different. To me, a distributor is not a creative player, just ensuring ball movement to the creatives.

Ball distrubition/circulation has never been creativity. The two can never be conflated. United has ba circulates in Matic, Fred and Mc Tominay. Yet it had next to no impact on our creativity. It's not by coincidence.

I concede that City has multiple creative players, and have the great fortune of having KDB, who is both creative and defensively sound.

His defensive game is of no relevance to the issue at hand. Namely having 2 creative players on the center of midfield

I’m trying to figure out who is the creative midfielder in the Liverpool side...

Liverpool are the only elite side that has no creative players. Their gegen pressing system is the creator, with the fullbacks as their biggest distribution channel.

Chelsea? Mason Mount and then Kante/Kovacic and Jorginho (both distributors).

Even a Chelsea posses Kovavcic and Jorginho as proper deep play makers rather than mere circulators. With the likes of Barkley or Mount operating ahead of them. If they had a more clinical attack, they'd be rooting trans to shreds a a result.

Leicester, Maddison, then Ndidi and Tielemans, both distributors.

Tielemans is a creative like Pogba.

Arsenal, with Guendouzi and Torreira as distributors. Ceballos and Ozil...

Arsenal operate with Xhaka deep and Ozil ahead

If you’ve watched Dortmund, you’ll see they use a midfield 3 of Delaney, Witsel and Brandt. Sancho is their main creator, and the midfield tries to distribute to Sancho and Hazard. Witsel is particularly excellent in this role in my opinion.

Dortmund though play similar football to Liverpool. With a less Workman like set of midfielders.

United play nothing like Liverpool or Dortmund. We have always been at our best with a creative midfielder like Robson, Scholes or Carrick right in the heart of our midfield. Even in a more defensive role like Ince, Keane and lastly Carrick all occupied. With a second striker/number 10 like Cantona operating ahead of them. With the wingers as the outlet for stretching teams and in the CR7 years adding regular goals....

Since Fergie left we have suffered badly because we no longer have that. This season alone Matic, Fred and Mctominay have been in fine form as circulators. But creatively we were dire without a Pogba type. Till we added a Bruno. Now just think the difference having both would make.

My point is that much of the creativity to unlock defenses has moved out to the wings.

I'm convinced people are conflating assisting with play making. Playmaking that runs creativity has NEVER left the heart of midfield. Infact these days unless you operate like a Liverpool it is all the more crucial due to pressing.

Secondly, since quick counter attacking and the high press has entered the game, you need at least two high work rate, disciplined midfielders who can support a high press as well as have the defensive awareness to break up quick counter attackers and get back quickly to defend. That’s not really what Pogba is good at.

People have this idea Pogba can't hack it defensively in a 2 man pivot because they constantly over look the fact he has had to consistently abandon his pivot partner to force creativity for United further upfield. Due to being the sole creative presence down the center for years. Causing tactical issues in the center of the pitch. Which at one time forced us to shift to a 4 -3-3- which exposed the dearth of having once creative central player all the more . Which in turn has exposed our dearth of a right winger.

With a player like Bruno around, It's is less likely to happen. Besides with a Bruno around I don't see the issue: Bruno can comfortable operate deeper with Pogba as the 10 instead.

If we add a Sancho to that we'd be finally a properly balanced side with a two flank threat. For even a Mere James' being around had improved our two flank threat just this season.


Above all my point is simple. If a Pogba goes, he should be replaced with a similar player, not a wide player. Preferably one comfortable as pivot player. United need and Keane or Veron ( Witsel/Partey, Fabian Ruiz or Thiago Alcantara type if you will) if he leaves. Not a Fabinho type. Then and only then would we be able to unlock the full benefit of adding a Sancho.