We've won the 'most points since Bruno joined' and the 'most points from January to December (currently)' leagues. Essentially these are clearly the most important metrics to measure Ole by. So lads, he's just won us some sort of double.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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I’m certain Bob gave all the credit for Schmeichel, Solksjaer, Irwin, Bruce, Sharpe, Pallister, Stam, Evra, Hernandez, Vidic, Ronaldo, Ince, Kanchelskis, Johnsen, Park, Carrick, Rafael, Valencia, DDG to our great scouting network that went to utter shite the very day the great man retired.
Hell, at the point he retired we were all still believing that Smalling and Jones were going to be the future Vidic and Ferdinand
I think the point Ole inners are trying to make is that with more players like Bruno in the squad, Ole can do well. If you give Ole a Lewandowski I am sure we will win more matches.
I just don't see Ole winning anything major unless you give him a team like Real gave Zidane.
They make a silly point though. The stat points to an immense key man risk on Bruno, not toward Ole being a capable manager.
I’m certain Bob gave all the credit for Schmeichel, Solksjaer, Irwin, Bruce, Sharpe, Pallister, Stam, Evra, Hernandez, Vidic, Ronaldo, Ince, Kanchelskis, Johnsen, Park, Carrick, Rafael, Valencia, DDG to our great scouting network that went to utter shite the very day the great man retired.
Hell, at the point he retired we were all still believing that Smalling and Jones were going to be the future Vidic and Ferdinand
I still believe that Jones could be the next Duncan Edwards if he can get off the injury table.
Ole is a good man manager as evidenced by players giving their all even now. We have won so many matches after going behind. It is a combination of having great players and Ole's man management. Unfortunately his overall tactics and in-game tactical management is pretty poor.
If you give Ole the squad Real gave Zidane he probably can win something.
I don't see great man management. The way we start in all our games it's evident they aren't starting with aggression or intent. His handling of Romero is poor, I also feel he mis judged who should be his captain.
I think its clearly inconclusive on that front.
Managers live and die on results. He'll take stick for losing to RBL, and likewise he'll get credit for a strong & consistent run of league results in 2020. It doesn't matter how they get there.
Analysis has to be fair, and that is where this forum is suffering badly because agendas are so rife that is it preventing fair analysis. Not altogether, but it gets lost in the traffic. This whole key player thing is IMO unfair analysis. Who cares if we have a star player that makes us a better team. If he does get an injury we'll have to find a way to cope, but he hasn't so far so it doesn't need to be discussed or used as a critical tool.
My biggest worry is that we stagnate for too long, and demoralize players who will then want to leave.
We made a good signing in Bruno Fernandes, but if he suddenly decides to move to something bigger because we are soul destroying, we're fecked again.
We made a good signing in Bruno Fernandes, but if he suddenly decides to move to something bigger because we are soul destroying, we're fecked again.
Progress.
Exactly.
The very moment Ole started playing Lingard and Pereira as the creative hub with no idea of how to play any different, he should have been sacked. Without Bruno we'll be back to struggling to score more than one goal a game; he has no clue how to get creativity from elsewhere.
Doesn’t mean shit when you crumble when it matters most. Like a Europa league semi, or an FA cup semi, or a game to qualify for knockouts. What’s the point of being in great form since Bruno came (not Ole) if we’re still failing when it matters?
True.I know i've told this anecdote before, but when Ole was at Molde he invited people from United to look at Haaland. He scored 4 in 20 mins as a sub at age 16 and we could have had him for a couple of millions. The people who decided against buying him then should be drawn and quartered
Yeah I will always blame WOODY and those clowns around him for missing out on Klopp as manager. He should never have replaced Gill in the first place then maybe we wouldn't be in this mess now
That is consistency.
Ole is consistently scoring points totals, which most of the time would get you 4th-6th place.
Standards have been lowered by Woodward (after all, to get CL money, we just need top 4) and fans have completely accepted this.
I don't care for 4th place, I want 1st (or a close run title chase in 2nd). I also want Cup finals. I don't see Ole achieving any of these metrics.
And you think that if we are 2 pts from the top, that we'd be able to sustain a title challenge?
If you say, "yes", then I'll leave someone else to reply to you.
Yeah that is a very valid concern and could well happen if things don't improve enough
I’m almost 60 years old and I have no longer time with this spineless snowflake. Who gives a shit about his or anybody else’s feeling. When the clown is sacked I will celebrate with a bottle of Champagne!
Let’s call a spade a spade.Fkng worthless and the sooner we move on the better. See ya all when we are free! (Now I will take a swim in the ocean, 24C and clear blue sky)
Let’s call a spade a spade.Fkng worthless and the sooner we move on the better. See ya all when we are free! (Now I will take a swim in the ocean, 24C and clear blue sky)
It becomes a problem when agenda driven posters use a players impact on the team to put credit to the manager. In truth, the Bruno effect is likely an inevitability under most managers. Its not like Ole has taught him anything new.
I don't have a problem with pointing to how great our form has been since Bruno arrived so long as its used to credit Bruno. When he's not in the team, our team is shite. That differentiates him from the manager by way of impact. It's all through him or its nothing at all. That's not what we should be about.
We've slowly moved into the race so your theory not based on evidence at the momentin the league.
Embarrassing post
I'm firmly in the Ole out camp now but i also agree with a piece i saw in the newspaper today by Chris Sutton. It might do us well to stick by Ole until the summer. He is never going to be the right guy, but he can keep us ticking over with half a chance of getting top 4 and give us time to find the right replacement.
Poch in August with months of planning and a full pre season is a much more appealing prospect than Poch rushed in next week after Ole is sacked.
Poch in August with months of planning and a full pre season is a much more appealing prospect than Poch rushed in next week after Ole is sacked.
What is the role of a manager? To build a team that gives his club the best possible opportunity to achieve strong results. A large part of that is recruitment. Bruno rightly receives plenty of credit for being an exceptional player. The manager who signed him should also receive plenty of credit for signing him. That's just how its always worked. If signing Bruno has made our team better and led to better results, that's a textbook example of good management.
Its ironic that you use the phrase 'agenda driven' in your post, because its surely incredibly agenda driven to even be talking about this. You're trying to turn a massive positive into a negative for no other reason than because you don't rate Ole and you want to attack him.
What I dont get is this "lets give him until the end of the season" logic. I mean havent we've seen enough already? we will enter good and bad patches depending on players form but we all know Ole is not building anything special. Lets forget the lack of a cohessive attack structure, just our formation. Does anyone know how will we set up on our next 5 matches? We dont even have a defined starting XI, after 2 years Ole is still experimenting with formations.
At this point its just gambling and hoping it clicks, when we had the good run after the covid break last season we played with the same formation match after match, there I thought well we have found our style, then suddenly Southampton found that if we got pressed we were nullyfied. So what did Ole do? start over again, feck me. It seems one step forward and two steps back. We need a coach with playing patterns witth identity and a clear vision so we can focus on get the kind of players we need to develop that style.
Ole's signins are not logic with what we promote, we want to play high line pressing? why bring one of the slowest CBs in the game and a rightback who offers very little in attack? we brought VDB and it seems we dont have a plan for him, he doesnt really suit any position. Whats the reasoning behind those signings?
All those who say Ole is leaving the fundations blabla etc, thats pure bullshit to justify that even when he doesnt get results theres something bigger behind it. Next manager who comes in will most definately ask for new players. No manager comes to a new club and says hey whoa thats exactly the squad I need.
Its frustrating how we are wasting time, the standards have lowered, its enfuriates me that we are in a deep crisis and theres no urgency to get out of it. How can we say well its been shitty but lets give him another 6 months just in case, what kind of loser logic is that?
At this point its just gambling and hoping it clicks, when we had the good run after the covid break last season we played with the same formation match after match, there I thought well we have found our style, then suddenly Southampton found that if we got pressed we were nullyfied. So what did Ole do? start over again, feck me. It seems one step forward and two steps back. We need a coach with playing patterns witth identity and a clear vision so we can focus on get the kind of players we need to develop that style.
Ole's signins are not logic with what we promote, we want to play high line pressing? why bring one of the slowest CBs in the game and a rightback who offers very little in attack? we brought VDB and it seems we dont have a plan for him, he doesnt really suit any position. Whats the reasoning behind those signings?
All those who say Ole is leaving the fundations blabla etc, thats pure bullshit to justify that even when he doesnt get results theres something bigger behind it. Next manager who comes in will most definately ask for new players. No manager comes to a new club and says hey whoa thats exactly the squad I need.
Its frustrating how we are wasting time, the standards have lowered, its enfuriates me that we are in a deep crisis and theres no urgency to get out of it. How can we say well its been shitty but lets give him another 6 months just in case, what kind of loser logic is that?
Have never seen opinions on a manager so diverse that the worst puts him as PE teacher and the best, Pep Guardiola.
Sorry but I disagree. The only reason we signed Bruno was because McTominay got injured and Pogba was already injured and we were short in midfield. There was absolutely no long term planning by the board or Ole when they signed Bruno.
Not to mention that our main January target was Haaland. The summer before, Bruno was available, he was going to Spurs but they couldn’t agree on a price tag, and Ole didn’t go for him (maybe because he wanted to trust Pereira snd Lingard).
There were many circumstances that forced Ole and the board to get Bruno at the last minute. He was never their main target. They just got lucky that nobody else was in for him. Let’s not rewrite history.
The lets give it until the end of the season is probably because people would like a change,however nothing is gonna happen while we are only a couple of pts off top 4 and still in the ropey league too.
Yeah we definitely only signed Bruno due to the fact McTominay & Pogba were both injured at the same time. I know that is probably hard to accept but there was certainly no hint of it until late in that month
There is nothing agenda driven from my side, I said that there is nothing negative about the stat. My gripe is trying to vindicate the manager when it's evidently one player carrying the team.
Your point about recruitment and what management is, would be exactly why Ole has been bad. A managers job is to get the team as a whole performing better than the sum of its individual parts. Ole had not been able to reflect this.
Moreover you point to recruitment - Ole mis spent £80m on his center back choice, going for a player who had the same weaknesses as his partner. People saw it as an incorrect allocation of resources before he kicked a ball. Ole brought in Wan Bissaka who may well be a good full back but not capable of the overlapping runs Ole clearly implies he needs. He also hasn't made James look remotely like a Premier League player, despite having a strong campaign with Swansea and looking completely different for Wales.
There is almost nothing you can point to with recruitment to vindicate Ole. Bruno is continuing the form he had for a year before he joined United and his character and mindset isn't just a sudden influence from the manager. He always had this. Moreover The Athletic reported that Bruno was losing confidence in Ole himself.
So whatever way you spin it Ole doesn't come out looking great. This ridiculous suggestion that I'm spinning a positive to a negative is just showing you're not reading the posts, so I will repeat - our great form since Bruno arrived points to a great statistic to show how vital Bruno is to us. Not how good a manager Ole is. Take our last Premier League game as an example of how we look when we aren't with Bruno, despite still having an abundance of quality in the team.
No I don't think that. Was responding to "66" points jab. By that logic title should be won by the team who gets 70 point?
Whats the criteria for young in football though? Under 25, 24, 23, 22, 21? We have Matic, De Gea, Pogba, Bruno, Mata, Maguire, Telles, Cavani, Martial, Fred, Bailley, Lindelof, and Shaw all played this year and are 25 and over. In fact there are more 25 and over players than there are under. I left out Jones, Rojo, Romero, Grant and Ighalo.
I think you're misunderstanding the point that I'm trying to make, and by the way I always read every word of a post before I respond to it.
I'm not here claiming that Ole has made Bruno into the player that he is. Im saying that it doesn't matter. The part that Ole deserves credit for is for filling in a position that was a giant problem for us with a great signing. Thats what he is supposed to do. Its good management.
By the way, it is very agenda driven. Sorry, but it is. If I heard an opposition fan spinning a criticism against their manager for signing an excellent player I'd think they were idiots (which I don't think you are) or else so blinded by a personal agenda that they are choosing to reach pretty hard for a stick to beat them with.
If the answer is Poch you get him now as he is available. No point waiting. More time he has more his team will shape up.
If the answer is German hipsters or Southampton dude you wait till end of summer to get them if they are not willing to come now.
If the answer is Ole then get a transfer kitty of 300-400 million ready.
Anyone sitting on the fence just ask yourself this simple question, could another manager get more out of this current group of players? If the answer is yes then there you have it he’s not the right man for the job.
Not the most reliable sauce but
People that back Ole (both Ed and his fans) can't see that Ole will never get us to the top unless he has the superior team to all others
We'll need better players with any manager to get back to the top.
But less players with a top class manager than with a mediocre manager.
And more if we get the next manager wrong, again.
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