Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild

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Just going to drift until another season is lost as usual. Decisiveness and ambition lacking as always.

“You have had two years and things are still chaotic and unpredictable, despite a vastly superior squad to many teams who have started far better and look far more organized. We need to act now to see what can be achieved this season with a young, talented squad”

That should be the conversation at a club like United, but we will be here in December calculating how many wins we need and who needs to mess up to scrape into Top 4 again.
 
VP89 said:
Newcastle and Leipzig were both late flurries. PSG was a late goal and Brighton as you say, we should have been spanked in.
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That's very disingenuous. We were in relative control in all of those games except the Brighton one (which we won regardless). Palace, Spurs, Arsenal, and potentially Chelsea (with the caveat that both teams put out shameless displays) are the ones that you can point to as evidence that we've been way below par.
 
RedSky said:
You are of course turning a blind eye to our record away win run and our long unbeaten run last season, that wasn't a collection of sporadic wins, that was a long run of consistent form.

It's clear we're in bad form right now though and with games coming every 3/4 days it hurts us. But, we have a run of decent fixtures coming up and that should allow us to build some proper form and get the points on the board. I also think these high pressing teams are destined to collapse fairly quickly in the league, they won't be able to sustain those levels of performance with this schedule and I feel Ole is actually doing a good job right now rotating our players and keeping them fresh with the long term view in mind. We're avoiding injuries too which is something of a miracle if you consider what we used to be like.

I do agree with part of your post though, Ole isn’t the real deal and he won’t get us a title. He seems like a cup run Manager and someone who knows how to improve the squad but ultimately lacks the skillset to take the team to the final level, I feel the same about the coaching staff and have done for a few years now. I'm ok with that for now though as I feel the squad is still a long way off challenging anyway. It requires actual investment from the owners and that's extremely difficult.
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Exactly this.

A club the size of Utd, together with Utd’s history, I’d say it’s absolutely imperative we win titles.
 
Harry Harries said:
That's very disingenuous. We were in relative control in all of those games except the Brighton one (which we won regardless). Palace, Spurs, Arsenal, and potentially Chelsea (with the caveat that both teams put out shameless displays) are the ones that you can point to as evidence that we've been way below par.
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We controlled Newcastle, and we got a goal to settle us vs Leipzig, but we weren't in full fledged control until the 2nd. They were playing around us and we were able to contain + break.

We controlled Chelsea in the second half when they didn't want to control and preferred to sit back. Newcastle we certainly dictated the game but it took >80 minutes to get the winner + Ole making the change she should have made before kick off to fix it.

I think we can point to the following matches as us being below par:

- Brighton
- Palace
- Tottenham
- Arsenal

Whilst these are fine/good performances:

- Newcastle
- PSG
- Leipzig.

not exactly filling anyone with confidence.
 
RedSky said:
You are of course turning a blind eye to our record away win run and our long unbeaten run last season, that wasn't a collection of sporadic wins, that was a long run of consistent form.

It's clear we're in bad form right now though and with games coming every 3/4 days it hurts us. But, we have a run of decent fixtures coming up and that should allow us to build some proper form and get the points on the board. I also think these high pressing teams are destined to collapse fairly quickly in the league, they won't be able to sustain those levels of performance with this schedule and I feel Ole is actually doing a good job right now rotating our players and keeping them fresh with the long term view in mind. We're avoiding injuries too which is something of a miracle if you consider what we used to be like.

I do agree with part of your post though, Ole isn't the real deal and he won't get us a title. He seems like a cup run Manager and someone who knows how to improve the squad but ultimately lacks the skillset to take the team to the final level, I feel the same about the coaching staff and have done for a few years now. I'm ok with that for now though as I feel the squad is still a long way off challenging anyway. It requires actual investment from the owners and that's extremely difficult.
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This is a fair and balanced post..
 
VP89 said:
We controlled Newcastle, and we got a goal to settle us vs Leipzig, but we weren't in full fledged control until the 2nd. They were playing around us and we were able to contain + break.

We controlled Chelsea in the second half when they didn't want to control and preferred to sit back. Newcastle we certainly dictated the game but it took >80 minutes to get the winner + Ole making the change she should have made before kick off to fix it.

I think we can point to the following matches as us being below par:

- Brighton
- Palace
- Tottenham
- Arsenal

Whilst these are fine/good performances:

- Newcastle
- PSG
- Leipzig.

not exactly filling anyone with confidence.
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That's exactly the problem that I imagine pretty much everyone is in agreement with. The huge, logic-defying swing from beating last year's CL finalists and semi-finalists a week apart with some absolute shit-on-a-stick football played in between. That inconsistency isn't good enough for a team like United. He's got to go, in my opinion. When and who replaces him are the more difficult questions.
 
Adnan said:


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Its a fair assessment. I mean not only is the form up and down, but the identity is lost too. I dont know what system he likes anymore, what style he's trying to play and what attacking patterns he wants to implement. One thing Neville was right on, we went into Arsenal not knowing what we'd do we if we were a goal down. Arteta had Arsenal planning the game from minute zero and it showed.

Of course there are isolated examples where Ole shows he has completed a masterclass but on their own they are insufficient.
 
VP89 said:
Newcastle and Leipzig were both late flurries. PSG was a late goal and Brighton as you say, we should have been spanked in.
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This gold fish mode or selective memory isnt something new, it was like that under JM just different bunch, just found it funny that AWB mentioned those away wins like they were proper trashing.
 
The next 6 games sort under the "winnable" category, and should all end with a W so this nonsense can take a rest.
 
His record is reasonably good given the situation he inherited. Granted it could and should be better. All this talk by x pro’s and journalists about philosophy and clear identity are a load of bollocks in my view. We play games to win, you change your style/approach depending on who you play. I don’t see why you need a specific style or a philosophy to be deemed a good manager,
 
Fredo said:
He has Phelan, Carrick and McKenna, how many more does he need? Are you saying they are all bad? Phelan did a great job with SAF in his later years, if those aren't enough for Ole then we change Ole.
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Phelan was in Australia as a director, he wasn't even in management when he was brought back. And the football was awful when he was working with Ferguson. Mckenna's the guy who aced the job interview and Carrick has zero credentials beside playing for Ferguson. And then you have a relegation manager overseeing the mess and is just happy to be there and wont rock the boat or challenge the owners anyway because he knows very well he will never get a better job in his life.

All of our coaching team are on work experience, the whole thing is not serious.
 
Tom Cato said:
The next 6 games sort under the "winnable" category, and should all end with a W so this nonsense can take a rest.
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This should only stop when he proves he can cope with a team who are constantly pressing us all over the pitch. Also when he responds to us going behind in a game which I am still yet to see either
 
VP89 said:
and if they don't it's I assume not nonsense?
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No. But i fully expect a good number of wins. This absolute lambasting of the manager at every opportunity is a bit tiresome. Some posters (not necceserily you) can't wait for the team to do poorly so they can be proven right.
 
croadyman said:
This should only stop when he proves he can cope with a team who are constantly pressing us all over the pitch. Also when he responds to us going behind in a game which I am still yet to see either
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Have we not played several teams that press us all over the pitch and beaten them repetetively?
We have come from behind several times.

At this point I'm not sure why you're arguing when your points aren't things that have actually happened?
 
Tom Cato said:
No. But i fully expect a good number of wins. This absolute lambasting of the manager at every opportunity is a bit tiresome. Some posters (not necceserily you) can't wait for the team to do poorly so they can be proven right.
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Fair enough.

And if we fail to win 6/6 even in our next two games, is it still a nonsense to crticisze? My point being he's on the edge even with some who supported him.
 
I can't fault Ole for trying a diamond or 4222 against Arsenal seem as we hammered Leipzig with something similar, and everyone was getting excited that perhaps Ole has finally cracked the Pogba puzzle. But we all realized a few days later that Pogba is a not a PL level midfielder. He's like a Veron, he needs too much time on the ball, doesn't have the defensive intensity/focus required and he is not cut out for the PL, even though he can still be an important squad player here for when Bruno needs a rest.

The biggest worry is that it appears Ole completely botched the transfer window. We can all blame Ed for Cavani which is a player I doubt Ole wanted, but Ole going for Van De Beek instead of Partey now looks like madness, unless VDB suddenly becomes a major first XI player which is looking unlikely.

If it indeed turns out that a poor transfer window leads to more poor performances in the coming games, then that's unforgivable and Ole will have to get the boot. I'd give Ole one final chance to turn it around but one more result like the Arsenal result and he should get the boot.
 
But just to give a bit of perspective here - or highlight the margins.

We've actually not been scored on by the opposing team from open play in the last 5 games. We have 2 own goals (Shaw v Newcastle and Martial v PSG) and then 1 Penalty.

Defensively, the team is very, very good.

A stretch of games with PSG, Chelsea, Leipzig and Arsenal, 2W 1D 1L isn't exactly a disaster. It's only not good because of a extremly lackluster start to the season thanks to the absolute lack of a pre-season. Every other team that ended the season when we did got off to an equally poor start, and have since had a easier run of games. The next sequence of games bar PSG is very winnable, and needs to be won if the team is going to compete for top2-3 and titles this season.
 
Champagne Football said:
I can't fault Ole for trying a diamond or 4222 against Arsenal seem as we hammered Leipzig with something similar, and everyone was getting excited that perhaps Ole has finally cracked the Pogba puzzle. But we all realized a few days later that Pogba is a not a PL level midfielder. He's like a Veron, he needs too much time on the ball, doesn't have the defensive intensity/focus required and he is not cut out for the PL, even though he can still be an important squad player here for when Bruno needs a rest.

The biggest worry is that it appears Ole completely botched the transfer window. We can all blame Ed for Cavani which is a player I doubt Ole wanted, but Ole going for Van De Beek instead of Partey now looks like madness, unless VDB suddenly becomes a major first XI player which is looking unlikely.

If it indeed turns out that a poor transfer window leads to more poor performances in the coming games, then that's unforgivable and Ole will have to get the boot. I'd give Ole one final chance to turn it around but one more result like the Arsenal result and he should get the boot.
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Don't worry he isn't going anywhere despite how the results are going. The board are happy for him to keep bringing out his smiley demeanour and save money
 
Tom Cato said:
But just to give a bit of perspective here - or highlight the margins.

We've actually not been scored on by the opposing team from open play in the last 5 games. We have 2 own goals (Shaw v Newcastle and Martial v PSG) and then 1 Penalty.

Defensively, the team is very, very good.

A stretch of games with PSG, Chelsea, Leipzig and Arsenal, 2W 1D 1L isn't exactly a disaster. It's only not good because of a extremly lackluster start to the season thanks to the absolute lack of a pre-season. Every other team that ended the season when we did got off to an equally poor start, and have since had a easier run of games. The next sequence of games bar PSG is very winnable, and needs to be won if the team is going to compete for top2-3 and titles this season.
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Fair point that, not sure I'd go as far to say defensively we're very very good mind but still. But it's criminal to have us looking so clueless in attack with the players we have, and its been that way for fair too long. I don't see any clues that its changing anytime soon.
 
Ole is now beginning to be as incisive as Trump: "Results can sway the whole picture every time...."
 
VP89 said:
Its a fair assessment. I mean not only is the form up and down, but the identity is lost too. I dont know what system he likes anymore, what style he's trying to play and what attacking patterns he wants to implement. One thing Neville was right on, we went into Arsenal not knowing what we'd do we if we were a goal down. Arteta had Arsenal planning the game from minute zero and it showed.

Of course there are isolated examples where Ole shows he has completed a masterclass but on their own they are insufficient.
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I'm surprised people are still waiting for an identity to start showing. I guess these are the same people who said it takes time and a proper preseason 12 months ago. The fact of the matter is tactical systems start to show from week one, not week 100. What takes 100 games is its efficacy. LVG didn't suspend his system till he had spent x00m and Pep didn't wait till he had his players in. Ole uses a free system or a non-system or whatever tag one might want to call it. One of the reasons I think he won't win competing against the likes of Klopp. Things really evolved since Fergie retired and all his disciples have failed in management because they are trying to emulate him
 
Tom Cato said:
But just to give a bit of perspective here - or highlight the margins.

We've actually not been scored on by the opposing team from open play in the last 5 games. We have 2 own goals (Shaw v Newcastle and Martial v PSG) and then 1 Penalty.

Defensively, the team is very, very good.

A stretch of games with PSG, Chelsea, Leipzig and Arsenal, 2W 1D 1L isn't exactly a disaster. It's only not good because of a extremly lackluster start to the season thanks to the absolute lack of a pre-season. Every other team that ended the season when we did got off to an equally poor start, and have since had a easier run of games. The next sequence of games bar PSG is very winnable, and needs to be won if the team is going to compete for top2-3 and titles this season.
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Perspective is everything, and I take your points. Another perspective is that going back to the end of last season we've taken 3 points from a possible 18 at OT in the 6 home games. That is absolutely unacceptable. Our away form is outstanding, but this inconsistency is the root of the frustration at the minute. I've always been Ole in, but I am worried now. I can't explain that Arsenal performance - most worryingly we looked apathetic and lacked passion. Passion is the bare minimum we should have when playing for that shirt, even more so against a traditional rival like Arsenal.
 
Woodward should sack him not only for the performance on the pitch by his players but Ole for sitting in his chair and doing feck all while all the disaster is happening on the pitch.
 
Tom Cato said:
But just to give a bit of perspective here - or highlight the margins.

We've actually not been scored on by the opposing team from open play in the last 5 games. We have 2 own goals (Shaw v Newcastle and Martial v PSG) and then 1 Penalty.

Defensively, the team is very, very good.

A stretch of games with PSG, Chelsea, Leipzig and Arsenal, 2W 1D 1L isn't exactly a disaster. It's only not good because of a extremly lackluster start to the season thanks to the absolute lack of a pre-season. Every other team that ended the season when we did got off to an equally poor start, and have since had a easier run of games. The next sequence of games bar PSG is very winnable, and needs to be won if the team is going to compete for top2-3 and titles this season.
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Or Ole has failed in getting results against top teams which he is usually good at ( epl only)

We already are 4 points down from last year to hit just 66 points (remember 66 points will not even get top 6 this year)
 
Tom Cato said:
No. But i fully expect a good number of wins. This absolute lambasting of the manager at every opportunity is a bit tiresome. Some posters (not necceserily you) can't wait for the team to do poorly so they can be proven right.
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Even if we lost all 6 you’d still find an excuse. So it’s YOU that wants to be proven right.
 
Ole was brought in to steady the ship, change the negative culture around the club post Jose, get us back into the Champions League, and strip the squad of deadwood whilst changing the transfer strategy by bringing in young hungry footballers into the squad. I would say he has done a good job with most of this. Not outstanding but a good solid job. However, he was never realistically hired to get us back to the top, winning premier leagues. That would be deluded to even think that. Therefore, it could be argued that he has done his job and has reached his limits. That is where I feel he is now at with his time as our manager. He has built some excellent foundations after the Jose fiasco.

However, in my opinion, it is now the time to thank him for all his efforts and move on to a new top tier coach that any of the other top sides in the PL or Europe would be delighted to have as their manager. One that can deliver a modern coached system that brings out the best in the assorted talent put together by Ole and the Board. If we stand still right now, we risk teams like Everton, Leicester, Wolves, Southampton, Arsenal & Spurs all bypassing us very soon rather than us closing the gap on the top two as was the ambition at the start of the season. Now is the time to act, and it's not 'knee jerk' or 'cut throat' because it's six games into a PL season, but because its nearly two years into the Ole managerial experiment, which has run its course in my opinion.
 
Ole has done well. He stabilized club and signed some good players (maybe overpaid a little :drool: ). But now it's time to go and let real manager to take over. Enough with this loyalty bull... Bring in Poch please. Don't wait till New Year - it will be too late. Writing is on the wall and if people can't see it that's too bad.
 
Mainoldo said:
Even if we lost all 6 you’d still find an excuse. So it’s YOU that wants to be proven right.
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Ole has no excuse not to do well this season(top 4). People used squad depth, injuries, lack of preseason and lack of quality players as an excuse but we've solved all of that. Unsurprisingly I'm already seeing new excuses about him not being backed and some even suggest none of the new players were his choices
 
Greck said:
I'm surprised people are still waiting for an identity to start showing. I guess these are the same people who said it takes time and a proper preseason 12 months ago. The fact of the matter is tactical systems start to show from week one, not week 100. What takes 100 games is its efficacy. LVG didn't suspend his system till he had spent x00m and Pep didn't wait till he had his players in. Ole uses a free system or a non-system or whatever tag one might want to call it. One of the reasons I think he won't win competing against the likes of Klopp. Things really evolved since Fergie retired and all his disciples have failed in management because they are trying to emulate him
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Yes I remember when people said he needed his players to play his style of play. He spent 125m on a defensive full back when he wants his fullbacks to attack and a very slow CB when he wants to play a highline.
 
Tom Cato said:
But just to give a bit of perspective here - or highlight the margins.

We've actually not been scored on by the opposing team from open play in the last 5 games. We have 2 own goals (Shaw v Newcastle and Martial v PSG) and then 1 Penalty.

Defensively, the team is very, very good.

A stretch of games with PSG, Chelsea, Leipzig and Arsenal, 2W 1D 1L isn't exactly a disaster. It's only not good because of a extremly lackluster start to the season thanks to the absolute lack of a pre-season. Every other team that ended the season when we did got off to an equally poor start, and have since had a easier run of games. The next sequence of games bar PSG is very winnable, and needs to be won if the team is going to compete for top2-3 and titles this season.
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Nuance instead of blanket statements? Heathen! Seriously, good post, thank you.
 
Keep him. Let him construct the team he wants. If in 5 years time we are still not challenging for the title then sack him.
 
Tom Cato said:
But just to give a bit of perspective here - or highlight the margins.

We've actually not been scored on by the opposing team from open play in the last 5 games. We have 2 own goals (Shaw v Newcastle and Martial v PSG) and then 1 Penalty.

Defensively, the team is very, very good.

A stretch of games with PSG, Chelsea, Leipzig and Arsenal, 2W 1D 1L isn't exactly a disaster. It's only not good because of a extremly lackluster start to the season thanks to the absolute lack of a pre-season. Every other team that ended the season when we did got off to an equally poor start, and have since had a easier run of games. The next sequence of games bar PSG is very winnable, and needs to be won if the team is going to compete for top2-3 and titles this season.
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Thank you for providing some calm and sense around here
 
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