Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[VP89]

This kind of comment gets funnier every time I see it. Obvious adjustment, obvious lineup, obvious transfer. Everything is so obvious to the armchair manager in hindsight.

There is literally proof in the pre match buildup of many posters pointing to 352 vs PSG and hitting them on a counter. Pointing to Shaw as a third center back with Telles as the left wing back too.

Various football podcasts actually eluded to PSG playing to Ole's traditional counter tactics well before kick off. What the feck are you on about?

Did you actually expect us to play a 4231 against them before the game? If so you probably need to give your head a wobble.

 

[lRed]

They have also been clinging to Ole's record in the big games, which was good last season but only before lockdown. Since the restart, including yesterday's result, the record in big games stands at Played 7, Won 2, Drawn 2, and Lost 3 at an aggregate score of 8-13. His big game effectiveness is only going to get worse since opposing managers are figuring out that as long as they don't let United space in behind for our fast attackers, they can completely blunt us. This team gets no attacking coaching; it is the most obvious things to see.

What do you know about football to say "This team gets no attacking coaching; it is the most obvious things to see."
It's not your job, you don't train with the team, you know nobody at the club, stop judging by having not a single clue.

 

[Zen86]

There is literally proof in the pre match buildup of many posters pointing to 352 vs PSG and hitting them on a counter. Pointing to Shaw as a third center back with Telles as the left wing back too.

Various football podcasts actually eluded to PSG playing to Ole's traditional counter tactics well before kick off. What the feck are you on about?

Did you actually expect us to play a 4231 against them before the game? If so you probably need to give your head a wobble.

Throw enough shit at a wall and some of it will stick, eh Captain Hindsight

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

There is literally proof in the pre match buildup of many posters pointing to 352 vs PSG and hitting them on a counter. Pointing to Shaw as a third center back with Telles as the left wing back too.

Various football podcasts actually eluded to PSG playing to Ole's traditional counter tactics well before kick off. What the feck are you on about?

Did you actually expect us to play a 4231 against them before the game? If so you probably need to give your head a wobble.

I don’t know what you are moaning about the formation for. Why playing 5 defenders when Lampard was just gonna sit back? Just because it worked against certain team doesn’t mean it will work yesterday.

In fact it was the right decision to go 4231 than 5 defenders. The 5 defenders meant to play on counter against team that push higher and attack like PSG was. And yesterday, Lampard was completly the opposite of PSG. We created the same amount of chances as the one against PSG with that 4231.

 

[TheGame]

It's not hard to set your team up to counter against a shite PSG side when you have quality players like Bruno, Rashford and Pogba on the pitch. There's little tactics involved in that when you're the underdog. Will you be clamouring to say the same thing if PSG rock up to OT in a months time with a full squad and tear us a new one?

A shite PSG who reached the CL final literally a couple of months earlier. Also Pogba didn't start the game.

 

[TheGame]

Should have been sacked after Spurs game.It still hurts me in my stomach when i think about that game.

Take some Rennie, that should sort it.

 

[Anustart89]

If the club had any sort of ambition, this season would be the perfect season to take a risk and be proactive. None of the teams look very good so any team could be a dark horse for the title.

Ole obviously has ideas as to how he wants to play but he’s unable to implement them. I just came to think of how many times he has said he wants us to score easy goals. Disregarding penalties, how many tap-ins have we scored during his tenure? Are we regularly seeing runs to set up tap-ins from our players? Does Ole think he’s a guy with a magic lamp where he just needs to say what he wants the team to do many times and a genie makes it happen?

I don’t know what he sees in James either. He has pace, but not a clue as to what to do with that pace. And then on the other wing he has Mata who has absolutely no pace whatsoever. What was his plan? Counter with the left side and play possession with the right? Team selection was basically standing with one foot in either playing style and the end result being neither.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Yes we've started poorly. But our last 3 games, have been good.
Newcastle W
PSG W
Chelsea D

All good results in reality. We have a game in hand. We would be in 6th place above Chelsea and Arsenal and only 3 points behind 1st and 2nd placed Everton and liverpool if we were to have played and won the game in hand.

Its very early still so cant be too judgemental of Ole.

We were actually shite against Newcastle - who are a totally awful side - bar the last 20 minutes after DvB came on. Most on here were slating the performance up until that point. We were brilliant against PSG and then back to looking absolutely hopeless against Chelsea. It's not good enough.

 

[RedSky]

If the club had any sort of ambition, this season would be the perfect season to take a risk and be proactive. None of the teams look very good so any team could be a dark horse for the title.

Ole obviously has ideas as to how he wants to play but he’s unable to implement them. I just came to think of how many times he has said he wants us to score easy goals. Disregarding penalties, how many tap-ins have we scored during his tenure? Are we regularly seeing runs to set up tap-ins from our players? Does Ole think he’s a guy with a magic lamp where he just needs to say what he wants the team to do many times and a genie makes it happen?

I don’t know what he sees in James either. He has pace, but not a clue as to what to do with that pace. And then on the other wing he has Mata who has absolutely no pace whatsoever. What was his plan? Counter with the left side and play possession with the right? Team selection was basically standing with one foot in either playing style and the end result being neither.

I'm hoping with James it was Oles way of giving James a test to see where he is performance wise in relation to whether he can trust him later down the road. As currently the performances James has put in really doesn't suggest he should be anywhere near the first team squad let alone starting matches. Once Martial is back and Mason/Cavani are fit I'll be staggered if he even makes it on the bench. That's probably the last time we see him start for a while as he simply has no attacking threat.

 

[Judas]

I think the frustrating thing is Ole created his own problem yesterday with the bizarre team selection. I'm sure he'll get it right midweek, but against Arsenal? Wouldn't surprise me if its another head scratcher.

 

[Dve]

We were actually shite against Newcastle - who are a totally awful side - bar the last 20 minutes after DvB came on. Most on here were slating the performance up until that point. We were brilliant against PSG and then back to looking absolutely hopeless against Chelsea. It's not good enough.

28 shots, 14 on target. 63,6% possession. High intensity, quick and accurate passing from start to end. One of the best matches under Ole.

 

[TwoSheds]

So because we didn't score against a team whose GK and CB were top 2 candidates for MotM Ole's shit? Is that really what we're saying in here? We outplayed Chelsea and got a point, anyone trying to use that performance as a stick to beat our manager with is mental. By all means hold your opinion, talk about your opinion, but to use that game as evidence is pure insanity.

 

[Robbie Boy]

28 shots, 14 on target. 63,6% possession. High intensity, quick and accurate passing from start to end. One of the best matches under Ole.

Wow stats. Yeah Newcastle played to let us dominate possession and try to get quick counters with Saint Maxim. They didn't even bother trying to do anything with the ball. Sorry but first half we were horrendous. We spent the half fannying around with the ball creating feck all proper openings.

High intensity, quick from the start and "one of our best matches under Ole" . Your bar is ridiculously low and you're being incredibly harsh on Ole who has a fair few very good performances. Good 20 minutes after DvB came on and swung it, that's it. The rest was amateur stuff against a god awful side who gave us the ball for 90 minutes.

 

[Suvvernmanc]

We were actually shite against Newcastle - who are a totally awful side - bar the last 20 minutes after DvB came on. Most on here were slating the performance up until that point. We were brilliant against PSG and then back to looking absolutely hopeless against Chelsea. It's not good enough.

We were very good against Newcastle. did you actually watch it?

Chelsea are not shite either. It was a game where we probably cancelled each other out but with us having the better chances. There were some great individual performances from the likes of Lindelof, Scott and Bruno. The best players on the pitch were Thiago Silva and Mendy.

Maybe you are just a very negative person in general.?

 

[Longshanks]

We were actually shite against Newcastle - who are a totally awful side - bar the last 20 minutes after DvB came on. Most on here were slating the performance up until that point. We were brilliant against PSG and then back to looking absolutely hopeless against Chelsea. It's not good enough.

Absolutely hopeless is a bit harsh for yesterday, Chelsea are a good side on a similar level to us they came with a gameplan sat deep took minimal risks and were well organised.

We were the better side and on another day nick it 1-0. A draw against chelsea is not a bad result and the performance was ok. Could it of been better? Of course but you don't get 10/10 every game.

If drawing against a close rival is 'absolutely hopeless' what would be acceptable?

 

[Robbie Boy]

We were very good against Newcastle. did you actually watch it?

Did you, serious question? I have a feeling you caught the highlights or just looked at the stats.

Newcastle are appalling and they had 7 shots on target all season prior to facing us. The first half was poor yeah. We marginally improved second half and DvB totally turned the game when he came on. We had a good last 20 minutes but that certainly wasn't the tempo we played at all match. Weird you can't praise Ole for seeing what was needed and addrssing it

 

[Mainoldo]

Did you, serious question? I have a feeling you caught the highlights or just looked at the stats.

Newcastle are appalling and they had 7 shots on target all season prior to facing us. The first half was poor yeah. We marginally improved second half and DvB totally turned the game when he came on. We had a good last 20 minutes but that certainly wasn't the tempo we played at all match. Weird you can't praise Ole for seeing what was needed and addrssing it

Next time just point the last sentence out to him first. So it’s highlighted your not criticising the manager. Then you can actually have a proper debate.

I agree and disagree however. We played well after conceding. We added a cutting edge however when he made the subs. But when you have quality like Pogba and DvB coming on it’s not hard to imagine. Especially against a team the level of Newcastle. We did the same against Brighton in the cup.

 

[Acole9]

So because we didn't score against a team whose GK and CB were top 2 candidates for MotM Ole's shit? Is that really what we're saying in here? We outplayed Chelsea and got a point, anyone trying to use that performance as a stick to beat our manager with is mental. By all means hold your opinion, talk about your opinion, but to use that game as evidence is pure insanity.

I agree with you. Crazy that a draw against Chelsea who are a good side and people think Solskjaer should be sacked. I think we had the better chances yesterday but in the end a draw was probably a fair result.

 

[Suvvernmanc]

Did you, serious question? I have a feeling you caught the highlights or just looked at the stats.

Newcastle are appalling and they had 7 shots on target all season prior to facing us. The first half was poor yeah. We marginally improved second half and DvB totally turned the game when he came on. We had a good last 20 minutes but that certainly wasn't the tempo we played at all match. Weird you can't praise Ole for seeing what was needed and addrssing it

We scored a goal in the first half. We had a goal disallowed in the 1st half. We had a near goal cleared off the line in the 1st half. We dominated possession and had created loads of chances.. in the 1st half.

I am the 1st one to criticize when we're poor. The Newcastle game was not one of those times. The caf can be toxic sometimes and we read some rubbish on here. You post is definitely one of those times.

 

[VP89]

I don’t know what you are moaning about the formation for. Why playing 5 defenders when Lampard was just gonna sit back? Just because it worked against certain team doesn’t mean it will work yesterday.

In fact it was the right decision to go 4231 than 5 defenders. The 5 defenders meant to play on counter against team that push higher and attack like PSG was. And yesterday, Lampard was completly the opposite of PSG. We created the same amount of chances as the one against PSG with that 4231.

My problem is that Ole decided to implement the system passively. He didn't really stick to one or the other, and just stuck in the middle to play out a draw.
His personelle decisions were weird too. An unnecessary emphasis on Maguire (who daftly gave a penalty away if VAR made the right call), a bizzare choice of James, an odd decision to bring on Pogba and then shaft Bruno to the right for 15 minutes.

Also you don't need to share stats, I saw the game. We had better chances but the whole fixture was played out FAR too passively. This is the main gripe I have. If you play a 433 and then have us approaching the game passively it just comes across conflicting. This is United at OT, either play 352 and hit them on a quick turnaround or control the game and dominate for a 433. We didn't really look set out to do either, and we looked more than happy to get a draw.

It's not a BAD result and we could have actually won. But when we desperately need to get a strong performance at OT it wasn't right to set us out so passively, and the personelle decisions were baffling too. That's my opinion.

 

[VP89]

Throw enough shit at a wall and some of it will stick, eh Captain Hindsight

You evidently don't know what hindsight means.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

My problem is that Ole decided to implement the system passively. He didn't really stick to one or the other, and just stuck in the middle to play out a draw.
His personelle decisions were weird too. An unnecessary emphasis on Maguire (who daftly gave a penalty away if VAR made the right call), a bizzare choice of James, an odd decision to bring on Pogba and then shaft Bruno to the right for 15 minutes.

Also you don't need to share stats, I saw the game. We had better chances but the whole fixture was played out FAR too passively. This is the main gripe I have. If you play a 433 and then have us approaching the game passively it just comes across conflicting. This is United at OT, either play 352 and hit them on a quick turnaround or control the game and dominate for a 433. We didn't really look set out to do either, and we looked more than happy to get a draw.

It's not a BAD result and we could have actually won. But when we desperately need to get a strong performance at OT it wasn't right to set us out so passively, and the personelle decisions were baffling too. That's my opinion.

A team who wants to go attack aka us yesterday will always be forced to play passive against a top team who park the bus with quality attacking threat for counter aka Lampard Chelsea. Go Re-watch all those opposition teams playing against United’s Mourinho.

You are making zero sense with your 352 argument. There is a reason why we only play that against a team who wants to attack & score because it suits us for counter attack. The fans including you got no clue what Lampard was going to do but Ole somehow did his research and knew that Lampard was going to park the bus that’s why he didn’t go for 352 because it won’t work.

 

[James Peril]

A shite PSG who reached the CL final literally a couple of months earlier. Also Pogba didn't start the game.

I believe five out of the seven players behind the front trio weren’t playing against us. No Verratti (didn’t play the final either), no Marquinhos, no Thiago Silva, no Bernat... instead Herrera, Gueye from Everton and some other chap. None of their starting midfielders, had to throw on Everton-Moise Kean instead of Icardi to chase a goal. But sure, no point in adding those details to the agenda here. PSG with this injury crisis/corona isn’t even on par with Arsenal when their two golden boys aren’t producing the goods. On the day, I’d take only Neymar and Mbappe as sure starters for United. Maybe Kimbembe too.

 

[lysglimt]

Honestly, a literally anyone could have said to defend with a back 3 and hit them on a counter. Most people on the caf were churning out the same system days before kick off for fecksake.

Ole deserves a wealth of praise for PSG but don't claim he was out there with a tactical masterclass. He switched to an obvious adjustment. Frustratingly this week he switched back to an odd system that wasn't as suitable, which brings back questions again. Not because it's an isolated incident, but because he's done it many times.

There is a huge f difference between a tactical masterpiece - and being tactically inept.

My comment was made to someone claiming he was tactically inept - if that was the case, he would never be capable of getting any kind of praise, because he would be too dumb.

Having said that - if you think any manager in the world can beat PSG by as you claim it "defend with 3 at the back and hit them on the counter" - why would you need good managers ?

 

[VP89]

A team who wants to go attack aka us yesterday will always be forced to play passive against a top team who park the bus with quality attacking threat for counter aka Lampard Chelsea. Go Re-watch all those opposition teams playing against United’s Mourinho.

You are making zero sense with your 352 argument. There is a reason why we only play that against a team who wants to attack & score because it suits us for counter attack. The fans including you got no clue what Lampard was going to do but Ole somehow did his research and knew that Lampard was going to park the bus that’s why he didn’t go for 352 because it won’t work.

Yeah, you didn't read my post. Although I would have liked a 352 (we can disagree on whether this was good or not), I made it clear my gripe was his failure to implement the decided system in a manner which adequately controlled the game.

And you ignored the personelle gripes and mid game tactical decisions of playing Bruno on the right.

 

[lysglimt]

They have also been clinging to Ole's record in the big games, which was good last season but only before lockdown. Since the restart, including yesterday's result, the record in big games stands at Played 7, Won 2, Drawn 2, and Lost 3 at an aggregate score of 8-13. His big game effectiveness is only going to get worse since opposing managers are figuring out that as long as they don't let United space in behind for our fast attackers, they can completely blunt us. This team gets no attacking coaching; it is the most obvious things to see.

The only thing obvious here is that you should stay a newbie - because you bring very little to this discussion

 

[Zen86]

You evidently don't know what hindsight means.

Sure I do, your posts are full of it. Full of other things as well for that matter.

 

[VP89]

There is a huge f difference between a tactical masterpiece - and being tactically inept.

My comment was made to someone claiming he was tactically inept - if that was the case, he would never be capable of getting any kind of praise, because he would be too dumb.

Having said that - if you think any manager in the world can beat PSG by as you claim it "defend with 3 at the back and hit them on the counter" - why would you need good managers ?

Oh yeah I don't think PSG is a reason to think he's tactically inept don't get me wrong. Im just saying it's an obvious system to deploy, that's all.

Nonetheless he deserves bags of credit for it so I don't want to Dock any points against him. My issue is his errors vs Chelsea, specifically setting them out to play passively and the personelle choices.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Yeah, you didn't read my post. Although I would have liked a 352 (we can disagree on whether this was good or not), I made it clear my gripe was his failure to implement the decided system in a manner which adequately controlled the game.

And you ignored the personelle gripes and mid game tactical decisions of playing Bruno on the right.

Again, you didn’t read my post. I clearly explained it to you that a team who wants to go attack aka us yesterday will always be forced to play passive against a top team who park the bus with quality attacking threat for counter aka Lampard Chelsea. We have seen this happened before when Kloop’s Liverpool played against us in Mourinho era, they became passive when playing against us in Mourinho era.

 

[NK86]

Think this summer was to early to pull the trigger on him. If he continues as poorly this season as last, then he should be sold, but if he can get his head straightened and play with more composure he will be a useful squad player if nothing else

Where have we heard that before? *cough* Lingard *cough*

Point is, plenty of teams pull the trigger on a player they feel doesn't fit their expected standards. James was always going to be a gamble and there's no shame in admitting that it didn't come off.

Best we recoup what we get and try to get someone else who can actually prove worthy enough.

Anyway, hopefully Beilsa will do us a solid and take him off our hands as I don't see him being anywhere good enough for us.

 

[Dve]

Did you, serious question? I have a feeling you caught the highlights or just looked at the stats.

Newcastle are appalling and they had 7 shots on target all season prior to facing us. The first half was poor yeah. We marginally improved second half and DvB totally turned the game when he came on. We had a good last 20 minutes but that certainly wasn't the tempo we played at all match. Weird you can't praise Ole for seeing what was needed and addrssing it

When you are the only person in the world thinking we had a stinker against Newcastle, that could be an indication that you are pretty off.

 

[Bobcat]

Where have we heard that before? *cough* Lingard *cough*

Point is, plenty of teams pull the trigger on a player they feel doesn't fit their expected standards. James was always going to be a gamble and there's no shame in admitting that it didn't come off.

Best we recoup what we get and try to get someone else who can actually prove worthy enough.

Anyway, hopefully Beilsa will do us a solid and take him off our hands as I don't see him being anywhere good enough for us.

Well, he has quite not reached Lindgard levels just yet. How long has he been in the first team? 7 years or something?

 

[iato89]

I agree with you. Crazy that a draw against Chelsea who are a good side and people think Solskjaer should be sacked. I think we had the better chances yesterday but in the end a draw was probably a fair result.

It is not because of that, but we have been almost 2 years having ''seesaw'' results, 3 awful games, 3 semi-good games, rinse and repeat. We lost 2 points yesterdays because of our formation and the idea to just play with counter and when Lamps decided not to attack the game was boring as we had no other plan on how to play (and thanking god for the poo refeering on azpi clear pen)! This season will highlight these issues yet again and people will realise we need someone much better.

 

[anant]

I love how Ole Out-ers have an excuse to downplay any achievement of this team.

Let's start with yesterday. Was James' inclusion wrong? Yeah, most likely, but you've got to remember that he fielded him without knowing that this is how Lampard would be setting up his team and none of us saw that coming - and by setting up the team, I don't mean 5-3-2 but more the "park the bus" tactic. So, as much as people are blaming Ole for team selection, people really need to look into the fact that Lampard pulled off a Mourinho there. And before people go on again about how we can't break low blocks, you've got to remember that we can't put more people in attack, as they can quickly start a counter with the pace they have. These might seem like excuses, but it's exactly what every manager would do against a big team who are equally as strong - even Klopp did that in the 0-0 in Mou's 2nd season, remember? It's easy to say that Ole didn't go harder, but considering our poor home record this season, and shambolic defending at home earlier this season, Ole felt it was necessary to get something rather than risk it all, which could have gone either ways (and had it gone south, the confidence of our players would have been shattered).

BTW, just found a quote by one of the more active memebers on this thread (not going to quote it as I don't want to start an e-fight, and will paraphrase it slightly so as to ensure people can't search it) - " The next couple of games are really tough for our manager. Hoping Ole adapts and considers VDB for a starting berth, with us attacking PSG and Chelsea on the counter".

Now, coming to the PSG game - how many people on here really thought we were going to get anything from the game? 52% of the forum thought that PSG would win (as per the score predictions people had). We knew who they're missing, and everything. So let's not act as if they were that weak. Most people regard Tuchel as one of the guys who should be in contention to replace Ole, and most of us regard him as a top coach. So, why wasn't he not able to get more from his side especially against a manager who "won't be hired by any other team in PL and maybe even the Championship"? And while I get Dave had a superb game, we could also have scored 2-3 more had we not fecked around in the final third. Additionally, didn't we face exactly the same issue most of last season - Pogba out for 2/3 of the season, Martial, Scott, Rashford out for 2-3 months each? If we bring that up, it's termed as 'excuses' however, it's perfectly fine to bring the injury issues the other team is facing to downplay our achievements?

It's when people criticize us after those wins that leads to Ole In-ers believe that you are just agenda posters. You don't rate Ole that high - sure, but atleast be consistent in your criticism!

 

[Nou_Camp99]

All the Ole outers will be wanting the next man sacked the second results turn sour for him too, which they will. Even Fergie went through some rough spells.

Woodward and Glazers out. Ole in.

 

[VP89]

Again, you didn’t read my post. I clearly explained it to you that a team who wants to go attack aka us yesterday will always be forced to play passive against a top team who park the bus with quality attacking threat for counter aka Lampard Chelsea. We have seen this happened before when Kloop’s Liverpool played against us in Mourinho era, they became passive when playing against us in Mourinho era.

You thought Chelsea parked the bus? feck me.

There was a 15 minute period in the first half where Chelsea were dominating and had 0% action in their own third. You are on a wild tangent, and incorrect on top. Let's just leave it there.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You thought Chelsea parked the bus? feck me.

There was a 15 minute period in the first half where Chelsea were dominating and had 0% action in their own third. You are on a wild tangent, and incorrect on top. Let's just leave it there.

Feck me you only watched 15 minutes, no wonder. Even when we were parking the bus under Mourinho we had 15 minutes period where we could dominate the opposition.

They barely even trying to attack us, all they did was passing across the back when on possession. That's why we had 14 shots while they only had 6 shots and the man of the match was Silva or Mendy.

 

[Mo Caine]

All the Ole outers will be wanting the next man sacked the second results turn sour for him too, which they will. Even Fergie went through some rough spells.

Woodward and Glazers out. Ole in.

i'm not an Ole out guy by any means, but to get back to where many people on this forum started to follow the club, all of the names you mentioned will need to go.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

That would be like starting a thread asking if it would have been worth it snuffing out Hitler as a baby.

Killing baby Hitler wouldn’t have stopped the rise of the nazi’s, it just would have been a different guy who became infamous, and that moustache style may have not been permanently ruined.

 

[VP89]

Qq

Feck me you only watched 15 minutes, no wonder. Even when we were parking the bus under Mourinho we had 15 minutes period where we could dominate the opposition.

They barely even trying to attack us, all they did was passing across the back when on possession. That's why we had 14 shots while they only had 6 shots and the man of the match was Silva or Mendy.

You took from that that I only watched 15 minutes? Christ you're lost.

Parked the bus, feck me