Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Infra-red]

I have never thought he was any good and don't think he ever will be any good, but there's no point sacking him unless there's a carefully thought-out replacement lined up.

If we lurch from Ole to the first 'name' that comes along, we'll be back to square one and here again in two years with another poll on whether or not the new guy needs binning.

 

[Bilbo]

Managers of United always go through these 'crisis' periods. Every time we lose a game or two we are a club in crisis, and lets not forget that even Ferguson went through this multiple times, despite the fact that had dozens of trophies behind him. Its certainly the toughest job in England in that respect.

I've been staunchly Ole-in from the start, because I think he gets what is needed at this club more than most would, and I also think he is slowly but surely rebooting this squad and bringing the right culture back to the club. I have to admit to feeling some trepidation in looking at our fixture list up to Christmas, and this team needs to start winning games and fast otherwise he will be held accountable.

However I gain faith in the fact that he was dealt an extremely difficult hand last season and he ended up achieving his primary goal and also going very close to winning a trophy or two, so there are reasons to be confident that he can steer this club to another acceptable season. I actually feel that losing 6-1 rather than 1-0 or 2-1 will be of some advantage to us. The result and the fallout will have shaken the players to their core, and any complacency or distraction that might have set into the squad will now be replaced by a renewed focus on what is required here.

 

[Turnip]

This feels so melodramatic, but: what would be the point in sacking Ole? He's far from perfect, but he's also not the main problem. You don't back the manager with the players they want and they won't do well, he's being made to be the scapegoat for Ed and Co.s failures because that's how modern football works. Get a director of football in first and worry about the manger after. Swapping manager without a DoF does more damage than good, its why we've been in a 7 year re-building phase, the direction changes every 2 years because we get a new manager who convinces Ed we should be working his way which involved undoing all the previous manager's work.

I doubt any top manager already wants to come here, and even if they did I can't see how they'd be a success. I think the squad is better than the results and performances we're seeing and a better manager would improve things, but I don't think it would be a long term improvement, it would be the same bounce effect we got when Ole first joined.

Besides, Ole has been the only manager to turn around a crisis in the recent years, I reckon he can do it again.

 

[Abhinav]

The lack of a DoF has been bemoaned a lot. We're not getting anywhere with that at all.

However, if a manager comes in and says "I'm a 4-2-3-1 manager", should we expect of a "top class" manager to not be able to change his formation at all to suit the players at his disposal? Four transfer windows and we're still persisting with Pogba in a CDM role, expecting him to protect the defense. Are you fecking serious, like? Shouldn't he try to adapt to the players he has rather than push square pegs in round holes and hope the pegs change shape?

With respect to Pogba I think he will always be a square peg no matter which hole he is pushed into. The fact is that Pogba for all his brilliance is a particularly difficult player to have playing in the middle of the park. If Fergie was in-charge he would have shipped him off as he is not consistent enough (both in terms of quality as well as effort) to rely on him in a critical part of the team. I think Ole should try a combination of Fred/Matic/Bruno or Fred/Vdb/Bruno as his go to formation. Having said that, I also know why he persists with Pogba in the team. On field, Pogba always has the quality to create one moment of magic which sometimes we are missing. Off the field, if Pogba were to be benched there would be considerable noise that would be created that even a Champion manager like Jose had to endure. So the easy solution is to shoehorn him in the first XI, even though I don't think that's the right thing to do.
Pogba is not consistent enough even in the advanced role that some of his fans claim and is too much of a distraction to be kept on the bench. Ideal situation would we sell him for a good fee and replace him with the right peg (a Matic replacement).

 

[edgecutter]

If we continue with this form many of us would be angry that we didn't sound out a replacement for ole.

It's now down to ole to prove he can turn this around. It will be great if he does, but I just can't see it.

 

[Anustart89]

With respect to Pogba I think he will always be a square peg no matter which hole he is pushed into. The fact is that Pogba for all his brilliance is a particularly difficult player to have playing in the middle of the park. If Fergie was in-charge he would have shipped him off as he is not consistent enough (both in terms of quality as well as effort) to rely on him in a critical part of the team. I think Ole should try a combination of Fred/Matic/Bruno or Fred/Vdb/Bruno as his go to formation. Having said that, I also know why he persists with Pogba in the team. On field, Pogba always has the quality to create one moment of magic which sometimes we are missing. Off the field, if Pogba were to be benched there would be considerable noise that would be created that even a Champion manager like Jose had to endure. So the easy solution is to shoehorn him in the first XI, even though I don't think that's the right thing to do.
Pogba is not consistent enough even in the advanced role that some of his fans claim and is too much of a distraction to be kept on the bench. Ideal situation would we sell him for a good fee and replace him with the right peg (a Matic replacement).

Pogba has shown that he can really influence games when he’s not expected to do the legwork in midfield. This becomes an inevitability with Matic next to him. He could’ve played a 4-3-3 with Fred or McTominay and Bruno/Pogba taking turns in going forward. He could play a diamond with Fred/Matic, van de Beek, Pogba and Bruno, but this would mean dropping one of Rashford, Martial or Greenwood and dropping his 4-2-3-1. He’s tried none of those things since Pogba returned and Bruno arrived.

Ole’s plan is just to put the best eleven players (on paper) in the team in the only formation he knows, which is why he can’t buy any cheap players who would suit the system, because the system doesn’t exist. He has to go for Sancho for that reason, because the only way to improve the quality of an Ole team is to improve on the individuals one by one and hope that they perform to the best of their abilities in his formation.

I wouldn’t be against dropping Pogba either to suit the team better, but since we know how good Pogba can be I’d much prefer it if we had a manager who could adapt his system to suit his best players.

At the end of the day, what’s more likely: that France and Juve made an average player look great or that we’re making a great player look average? He’s not been a square peg in those systems, and they’d obviously relied on relieving him of some defensive duties that he’s expected to carry at United, by having strong runners next to him. We have Matic who, for all his qualities, was never known for his energy levels or ability to cover ground.

 

[edgecutter]

This feels so melodramatic, but: what would be the point in sacking Ole? He's far from perfect, but he's also not the main problem. You don't back the manager with the players they want and they won't do well, he's being made to be the scapegoat for Ed and Co.s failures because that's how modern football works. Get a director of football in first and worry about the manger after. Swapping manager without a DoF does more damage than good, its why we've been in a 7 year re-building phase, the direction changes every 2 years because we get a new manager who convinces Ed we should be working his way which involved undoing all the previous manager's work.

I doubt any top manager already wants to come here, and even if they did I can't see how they'd be a success. I think the squad is better than the results and performances we're seeing and a better manager would improve things, but I don't think it would be a long term improvement, it would be the same bounce effect we got when Ole first joined.

Besides, Ole has been the only manager to turn around a crisis in the recent years, I reckon he can do it again.

The football is dire, we are lucky to have some points on the board, because if we continue like this, we would end up in a relegation battle.

Ole should be doing better with what he has, he should be doing better with that defence that we invested in heavily last year and he should be big enough to drop certain players that haven't put in the effort needed to implement his strategy. Until he fixes these issues he can have no complaints if he losses his job.

Ed woodward is a leech and as much as we think he's incompetent, he's never going to lose his job.

 

[L1nk]

 

[Abhinav]

Pogba has shown that he can really influence games when he’s not expected to do the legwork in midfield. This becomes an inevitability with Matic next to him. He could’ve played a 4-3-3 with Fred or McTominay and Bruno/Pogba taking turns in going forward. He could play a diamond with Fred/Matic, van de Beek, Pogba and Bruno, but this would mean dropping one of Rashford, Martial or Greenwood and dropping his 4-2-3-1. He’s tried none of those things since Pogba returned and Bruno arrived.

Ole’s plan is just to put the best eleven players (on paper) in the team in the only formation he knows, which is why he can’t buy any cheap players who would suit the system, because the system doesn’t exist. He has to go for Sancho for that reason, because the only way to improve the quality of an Ole team is to improve on the individuals one by one and hope that they perform to the best of their abilities in his formation.

I wouldn’t be against dropping Pogba either to suit the team better, but since we know how good Pogba can be I’d much prefer it if we had a manager who could adapt his system to suit his best players.

At the end of the day, what’s more likely: that France and Juve made an average player look great or that we’re making a great player look average? He’s not been a square peg in those systems, and they’d obviously relied on relieving him of some defensive duties that he’s expected to carry at United, by having strong runners next to him. We have Matic who, for all his qualities, was never known for his energy levels or ability to cover ground.

With all due respect, Pogba was at Juve 4 years ago and even then that midfield was basically made up of a world class support cast. Pogba was a cherry on the top rather than engine of the midfield.

And I may be wrong but doesn't Deschamps play Pogba in the same role as Ole? The only difference is that he has a Kante next to him to do most of the leg work. What I am trying to get at is that the Pogba problem doesn't have a simple solution at United because we don't have the quality in rest of the areas to carry the vagaries in his form so as to say. A decent solution if we want to have Pogba in the side is the system we played against Sevilla with Fred to do most of the dirty work and Bruno playing a little bit deeper. However, I would say this also not perfect because both Bruno and Pogba are not great defensive players and while Bruno does put in a lot of miles on the ground, the same cannot be said of Pogba. Plus relying on Fred at the base of the midfield in the PL is always a risk because he does not have the positional discipline of say a Matic to protect the back 4. While I agree with you that the current midfield of Matic, Pogba and Bruno has its fair share of problems, I wouldn't say there is a clear and obvious solution that Ole is overlooking at the moment with the current set of players he has.

 

[devilish]

Ultimately, thats the heart of the problem.

We only need a new CB because the one he signed for £80m isn't good enough and now we need someone to hide his deficiencies. If we'd spent half of that on a player of his calibre, we would've had the budget this summer to get another CB.

We need a RW mostly because AWB is not good enough on the ball for a modern football. The problem on the right side of our pitch isn't the guy who scored 17 goals from there last season, but the full back behind him who offers almost nothing.

The Jan 2019 might just be worst transfer window we've ever had, because its hampered us for a long, long time going forward.

I think the biggest issue at United is the lack of experienced football people across the board.

Board level

We give players ridiculous salaries/contract extensions. We are slow on the transfer market and we tend to overspend. s

Board/Manager level.

Year 1: We bring in a manager, we give him a huge sum of money to spend and we expect him to know the exact players that he wants and be able to persuade them to come to OT. That of course is a problem

A- Modern managers have been raised on relying on CEOs that know their stuff about football + DOFs. They know a limited pool of players, they don't move around with an entourage of staff they trust as they used to do in the 90s and they certainly don't trust scouts that they never worked with, with let's say 130m. Thus the manager will probably play safe by bringing people he can rely on (Moyes brought Fellaini, LVG brought big names like ADM and Falcao + players he knew like Blind and Herrera, Mou brought Pogba and Ibra, Ole brought players from the EPL)

B- These signings tend to be too expensive for their own worth. Which leads to be labelled a failure/over expensive buys and which in turn diminishes the manager's credibility in the board's eyes. That leads to the board not trusting the manager with the big bucks they gave him before.

Coaching level

Most of the players we get start well only to vanish to mediocrity later on. Fitness levels are ridiculous, tactics are basic and coaching seem not on. If you take a closer look to our coaching team then the first thing that is obvious is the lack of experience in that coaching team. Take Phelan out of the picture and you've got the likes of Dempsey, Clegg, Pert, Carrick and fake Phil Neville who barely have any coaching experience at a top club. Meanwhile the likes of Lukaku state how Inter saved his career by sending him to a nutritionist while Sanchez said that he wanted out a day after training with us.

Its time we get our house in order and we need to do it in all areas not just 1.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Yes, every manager wants to shape the side to fit their preference, but in the meantime they adapt to what they have to work with. Conte won the PL with Victor Moses as a right wing back, for Christ’s sake. He had a system that he wanted to use but brought in a previously frozen out player because he suited the system.

Now if you don’t have a particular system that you prefer, then you create a system that suits the players at your disposal.

Ole has done neither. He sticks to a rigid system and then uses players who are good but clearly not suited for the role that he persists playing them in, Pogba being the prime example. Now he’s using Greenwood as a right winger in a 4-2-3-1 and is being criticized because he doesn’t help AWB enough defensively. We have no attack down the right hand side because AWB can’t attack, but are we seeing him doing anything about that? Nope, we’ll be seeing Greenwood and AWB occupying that right hand side unless something drastically changes, and I doubt that the coaching team will make a defender out of Greenwood or an attacker out of AWB.

With Ole, it’s 4-2-3-1 week in week out with the eleven best players on paper until they’re run into the ground and then it’s moan moan moan I need a new squad of £50-100m players.

I mean, for pretty much the price of Maguire and AWB he could’ve had Aarons, Kabak, Telles and Partey which would’ve been much better if squad depth was identified as an issue early on.

What's wrong with Moses as wing back? He had the assets to be wing back. You have set poor example. I even mentioned Conte in the post you replied that he inherited Mourinho's winning squad. Both Conte & Mourinho played the same football which defensive football and you can't find any better manager than someone like Conte to inherit Mourinho's team. Conte had the right players that suit his system while Ole doesn't because the previous managers played different style to what he wanted to play, different style means require different players.

Stop talking non-sense about Greenwood & Bissaka. There are million of United fans out there and you only read few percentage of the ones who criticised Greenwood doesn't help Bissaka. Because I don't.

I don't even know what you are arguing here because you are all over the place right now. My post doesn't ask for DoF and my post doesn't talk about Greenwood & Bissaka. My point is simple, sacking manager now won't solve the problem because what we need is to set the structure & philosophy of the football style first before hiring new manager. Once we know what's the structure and philosophy then we can finally start talking about hiring new manager, no point sacking Ole now and blindly picking random names. I even set good example how RB Leipzig was able to maintain to be good club in Bundesliga after changing 3 different managers because they have structure and philosophy thus they know the best man to hire but somehow you didn't quote it and ignored it.

 

[Anustart89]

With all due respect, Pogba was at Juve 4 years ago and even then that midfield was basically made up of a world class support cast. Pogba was a cherry on the top rather than engine of the midfield.

And I may be wrong but doesn't Deschamps play Pogba in the same role as Ole? The only difference is that he has a Kante next to him to do most of the leg work. What I am trying to get at is that the Pogba problem doesn't have a simple solution at United because we don't have the quality in rest of the areas to carry the vagaries in his form so as to say. A decent solution if we want to have Pogba in the side is the system we played against Sevilla with Fred to do most of the dirty work and Bruno playing a little bit deeper. However, I would say this also not perfect because both Bruno and Pogba are not great defensive players and while Bruno does put in a lot of miles on the ground, the same cannot be said of Pogba. Plus relying on Fred at the base of the midfield in the PL is always a risk because he does not have the positional discipline of say a Matic to protect the back 4. While I agree with you that the current midfield of Matic, Pogba and Bruno has its fair share of problems, I wouldn't say there is a clear and obvious solution that Ole is overlooking at the moment with the current set of players he has.

So if we're in agreement that Pogba can be world class in the right system and with the right players around him, why aren't we doing anything to give him the chance to perform at the level we know he can perform at? Why are we persisting with playing him in a system that he's ineffective in? If he's ineffective in this system you either bank on him and mold the team to suit him or you drop him and/or sell him. Ole's doing neither. We haven't been after a defensive midfielder since Ole came here, despite knowing that Pogba flourishes in a system where his main responsibility is in attack (as we saw when Ole took over). So basically Ole's just doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Deschamps also plays him as part of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1, yes, but saying it's the same role is a massive simplification IMO. Having Kanté around him who can win the ball and lay it off to him for a quick forward pass is vastly different to what he's expected to do here. We don't have a player to win the ball like Kanté does, and by the time we get the ball to Pogba the opponents have already settled. We're way too slow in getting the ball to him, and we're not moving without the ball once we get it in the same way Griezmann and Mbappé do, which leads to Pogba dallying on the ball in deep positions and losing it.

I agree with the last part of your post. We don't really have the perfect midfielders to act as fulcrum to Pogba for various reasons. Matic doesn't have the legs, Fred just hasn't shown enough. We could try a diamond with Fred/Matic, vdB, Bruno and Pogba, but that requires a lot of attacking from our full backs who are, oh wait, shit at attacking (decision on Telles pending). It begs the question as to why we haven't been in the market for one in the four transfer windows since Ole came? I haven't seen enough of Partey to judge whether he's the one for example, but he was available for €50m all summer and we weren't even looking at him apparently.

 

[Anustart89]

What's wrong with Moses as wing back? He had the assets to be wing back. You have set poor example. I even mentioned Conte in the post you replied that he inherited Mourinho's winning squad. Both Conte & Mourinho played the same football which defensive football and you can't find any better manager than someone like Conte to inherit Mourinho's team. Conte had the right players that suit his system while Ole doesn't because the previous managers played different style to what he wanted to play, different style means require different players.

Stop talking non-sense about Greenwood & Bissaka. There are million of United fans out there and you only read few percentage of the ones who criticised Greenwood doesn't help Bissaka. Because I don't.

I don't even know what you are arguing here because you are all over the place right now. My post doesn't ask for DoF and my post doesn't talk about Greenwood & Bissaka. My point is simple, sacking manager now won't solve the problem because what we need is to set the structure & philosophy of the football style first before hiring new manager. Once we know what's the structure and philosophy then we can finally start talking about hiring new manager, no point sacking Ole now and blindly picking random names. I even set good example how RB Leipzig was able to maintain to be good club in Bundesliga after changing 3 different managers because they have structure and philosophy thus they know the best man to hire but somehow you didn't quote it and ignored it.

I mentioned a DoF because that's what people are saying we need to set a 'main philosophy' which will also dictate which managers we go for. That's the big key to RB Leipzig's success, that their managers have adhered to the same main principles and that players signed have been in line with that.

Nothing's wrong with Moses as wing back per se. It's a testament to the system that Conte implemented that he was able to make a great performer out of a player who had been unfancied under numerous previous managers, and evidence of why he's a good coach and why Ole's not. I don't remember Mourinho playing a 3-5-2 at Chelsea, and if you don't remember, Mourinho had them in relegation form before his sacking in November, and then Conte came in April.

What's nonsense about what I said regarding Greenwood and AWB? Are people not saying that AWB's exposed due to Greenwood's lack of defensive quality? I'm not arguing against it. It's pretty natural that he has deficiencies in his defensive work because he's a striker being shunted out to the wing and it's his first full season. Do you think that AWB's a good enough attacker from right back in terms of what we want/need in relation to our ambitions? I can't poll every single United fan out there, can I? If you think AWB's good enough then you have way too low standards.

What I'm arguing is that Ole's not a good manager because he doesn't have a system beyond "play 4-2-3-1 with the biggest names in the starting XI" whereas other top level managers have a philosophy, just like you said. Top managers are able to adapt either by using the right players for their preferred system (like in the Moses example), or adapt the system to best suit the players at their disposal. Ole is doing neither of those things (using players best suited to system or changing systems to suit players at disposal) which is why a team full of internationals are playing like a pub team. This is why my main argument is that irrespective of whether Glazers have fecked off or Ed Wooward's job status, a good manager would improve the side's performances. I do realise though that the manager who would end up getting the job would be picked by Woodward and his cronies, which obviously means that there's a risk involved with it. Getting Big Sam would be a travesty for example, but I trust that they've learned from the LvG and Mourinho mistakes. Ole was a good appointment in terms of the direction they wanted the club to move in and the football he supposedly wants to play, it's just that he's bad at making the club go in that direction and that's why I think we should move on from him regardless of the structure above him.

 

[Flytan]

That's a huge exaggeration. If going from 6th to 3rd isn't an improvement then what is? We've also played some of the best football since Fergie under Solskjaer so there have been signs of improvement. Whether or not he is the manager to take us forward I don't know, but we'll see this coming season.

There are no signs whatsoever of improvement. We got third with a pathetic points total last season. We rely on individual brilliance to win games (whether it be an earned penalty or a pass Bruno). People keep saying we've played the best football since SAF. I disagree. I think our squad is incredibly underutilized based on the talent in it and the money spent on the players. Ole doesn't have a clue on how to adapt tactics and honestly has some of the worst in game decision making of substitutes I've ever seen. He's relying on teenagers to keep his job instead of molding said talented teenagers into great players. He's a manager who is along for the ride instead of one who makes the squad better than the sum of its parts.

 

[patty123]

You really truly believe that no manager can get this team working or winning? You also believe the likes of Beisla who has Leeds playing well and probably will beat us with a side costing under £50m couldn't do anything with these players?

They just spent 94 million on players on top of the 54 they spent last summer, so I think you might wanna get the calculator out again.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

They just spent 94 million on players on top of the 54 they spent last summer, so I think you might wanna get the calculator out again.

True. Leeds actually spent 18m or so more than we did this window, and 25m of our spending is still in Italy for another couple of months.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I mentioned a DoF because that's what people are saying we need to set a 'main philosophy' which will also dictate which managers we go for. That's the big key to RB Leipzig's success, that their managers have adhered to the same main principles and that players signed have been in line with that.

Nothing's wrong with Moses as wing back per se. It's a testament to the system that Conte implemented that he was able to make a great performer out of a player who had been unfancied under numerous previous managers, and evidence of why he's a good coach and why Ole's not. I don't remember Mourinho playing a 3-5-2 at Chelsea, and if you don't remember, Mourinho had them in relegation form before his sacking in November, and then Conte came in April.

What's nonsense about what I said regarding Greenwood and AWB? Are people not saying that AWB's exposed due to Greenwood's lack of defensive quality? I'm not arguing against it. It's pretty natural that he has deficiencies in his defensive work because he's a striker being shunted out to the wing and it's his first full season. Do you think that AWB's a good enough attacker from right back in terms of what we want/need in relation to our ambitions? I can't poll every single United fan out there, can I? If you think AWB's good enough then you have way too low standards.

What I'm arguing is that Ole's not a good manager because he doesn't have a system beyond "play 4-2-3-1 with the biggest names in the starting XI" whereas other top level managers have a philosophy, just like you said. Top managers are able to adapt either by using the right players for their preferred system (like in the Moses example), or adapt the system to best suit the players at their disposal. Ole is doing neither of those things (using players best suited to system or changing systems to suit players at disposal) which is why a team full of internationals are playing like a pub team. This is why my main argument is that irrespective of whether Glazers have fecked off or Ed Wooward's job status, a good manager would improve the side's performances. I do realise though that the manager who would end up getting the job would be picked by Woodward and his cronies, which obviously means that there's a risk involved with it. Getting Big Sam would be a travesty for example, but I trust that they've learned from the LvG and Mourinho mistakes. Ole was a good appointment in terms of the direction they wanted the club to move in and the football he supposedly wants to play, it's just that he's bad at making the club go in that direction and that's why I think we should move on from him regardless of the structure above him.

RB Leipzig previous three managers play the same system & principle. It's not coincidence how RB Leipzig hired the same type of managers for three times.

Testament? There are tons of wingers out there play as wingback as long as the player has the criteria to play in there then they are qualify to play in there and Moses is one of them. Let me reminds you something, as soon as he got rid or lost some of Mourinho's boys, the players he signed as replacement didn't do anything good for him and he failed to make it to top 4. Based on your logic Conte should be able to implemented his system or adapted with the new player but he couldn't and that's why he failed and was sacked.

I'm not wasting my time anymore here because I set good example of what happened when club has structure & philosophy of how they want to play or what happen when a manager replace another manager who has the same football style. You don't need DoF to set such things but you need board who knows about football.

 

[Anustart89]

RB Leipzig previous three managers play the same system & principle. It's not coincidence how RB Leipzig hired the same type of managers for three times.

Testament? There are tons of wingers out there play as wingback as long as the player has the criteria to play in there then they are qualify to play in there and Moses is one of them. Let me reminds you something, as soon as he got rid or lost some of Mourinho's boys, the players he signed as replacement didn't do anything good for him and he failed to make it to top 4. Based on your logic Conte should be able to implemented his system or adapted with the new player but he couldn't and that's why he failed and was sacked.

I'm not wasting my time anymore here because I set good example of what happened when club has structure & philosophy of how they want to play or what happen when a manager replace another manager who has the same football style. You don't need DoF to set such things but you need board who knows about football.

So in essence you don’t see any point in replacing a clearly underperforming manager until the board and CEO have sacked themselves?

And especially a manager whose only plan going forward is “buy a bunch of star players for tons of money and hope they do well”

 

[Ali Dia]

We need a beast in there beside Pogba to clean up after him and let him get further forward someone like florentino Luis. It’s way too languid otherwise. Their styles clash. If we went with VDB and Bruno then a clever passer who shields the defence would be fine like a tonali or neves. Matic isn’t good enough over a season and the 3 year deal on the back of 5 good games was more mental stuff from us

 

[Red_Orchestra]

It would be very unfair to show Ole the door, he has been given absolutely no authority over transfer signings. The only official purchase from his personal transfer list has been Daniel James for £15 million, he's been literally only been given £15m so far to "rebuild" this club back to its former glory. All of the rest of the transfers since Ole's arrival (Maguire, Wan Bissika, Bruno, VDB and so on) were all made and signed by Ed, his chefs and lawyers.

 

[Halftrack]

We all know the board aren’t good enough and handicap the manager but we also know our current manager was never qualified to do the job, was sacked by Cardiff and had run out of ideas with Molde (who won the league after he left).

"Ran out of ideas" my arse. He was rebuilding a squad that fell apart while he was away. His assistant took over and reaped the rewards of that work, and now the team is starting to come undone again. Skullerud and Moe might have won the league, but they did so with Ole's teams, and both proved entirely incapable of sustaining that level of performance for more than one season.

Unless you actually follow the Norwegian league, stop commenting on it. It's embarrassing to read some "expert" (regurgitating some complete fiction that some other "expert" dreamed up after glancing at league tables on Wikipedia) act as if they know anything about the Norwegian league.

 

[Stack]

It would be very unfair to show Ole the door, he has been given absolutely no authority over transfer signings. The only official purchase from his personal transfer list has been Daniel James for £15 million, he's been literally only been given £15m so far to "rebuild" this club back to its former glory. All of the rest of the transfers since Ole's arrival (Maguire, Wan Bissika, Bruno, VDB and so on) were all made and signed by Ed, his chefs and lawyers.

Im watching dirty fecking Leeds play football with a style and intensity we dont even come close to matching and they have a squad that on paper is far weaker than ours. Ole has had enough time to produce some sort of playing ethos and Im just not seeing it.

 

[Mihai]

There are no signs whatsoever of improvement. We got third with a pathetic points total last season. We rely on individual brilliance to win games (whether it be an earned penalty or a pass Bruno). People keep saying we've played the best football since SAF. I disagree. I think our squad is incredibly underutilized based on the talent in it and the money spent on the players. Ole doesn't have a clue on how to adapt tactics and honestly has some of the worst in game decision making of substitutes I've ever seen. He's relying on teenagers to keep his job instead of molding said talented teenagers into great players. He's a manager who is along for the ride instead of one who makes the squad better than the sum of its parts.

How do you think teenagers become great players if not by relying on them? Do they spend time in reserves until they magically become world class?

 

[pre Munich Red]

The great Utd teams under Fergie had superb talents, plus a few solid journeymen, but my goodness they all worked their asses off for the full 90+ minutes - one of the elements missing for some time at Utd.

 

[Halftrack]

That's nonsense, they're very very well paid to not be outplayed by lesser teams in the manner they are doing. Ditto the manager.

Everyone should concentrate on their job on the pitch and training ground, instead of crying about external factors and transfers.

"If only depressed people tried to be more positive, they wouldn't be so depressed." That's the level of argument you're making here.

Dude it's the first 3 games of the league. Not the last 10 games.

Felt let down? They're the own letting the fans down they have no right to complain

At the end of the day, they're still human. Getting paid well doesn't prevent your from getting physically and emotionally drained, it doesn't prevent you from losing motivation if you feel your efforts aren't being rewarded.

Both of your arguments works perfectly if we assume players only care about their paycheck, and not winning games and trophies. If they care about winning games and trophies, than seeing the effort to achieve those things hampered will harm their motivation.

 

[Andycoleno9]

It would be very unfair to show Ole the door, he has been given absolutely no authority over transfer signings. The only official purchase from his personal transfer list has been Daniel James for £15 million, he's been literally only been given £15m so far to "rebuild" this club back to its former glory. All of the rest of the transfers since Ole's arrival (Maguire, Wan Bissika, Bruno, VDB and so on) were all made and signed by Ed, his chefs and lawyers.

What? Man, he can't get "blame" for anything, isn't he? You think that Ed bought and overpayed Maguire (who is not some flashy and shirt selling player) on his own? And then Ole put him as captain after 2 months? Similiar is with AWB. Ole wanted those two players. They were bought because of him. Same as with Bruno and VDB. They are his signings.
If we bought Ramos, Cancelo, Muller and Thiago for example, i would think like you maybe. But we didn't. For all of them Ole said that "they fit in his vision of the club" and shit like that.

Look, i was huge Jose fan. But i never defended him about transfers (and many other things which go in his job). Lindelof is not his type of player for example but he was bought during his reign so he is his signing. In PL manager always has final decision. Maybe sometimes he doesn't get plan A or B or C but player who is signed IS approved by him.

 

[He'sRaldo]

"If only depressed people tried to be more positive, they wouldn't be so depressed." That's the level of argument you're making here.

No need to put words into my mouth. Read exactly what I wrote instead of making comparisons with clinical depression.

 

[Sky1981]

It would be very unfair to show Ole the door, he has been given absolutely no authority over transfer signings. The only official purchase from his personal transfer list has been Daniel James for £15 million, he's been literally only been given £15m so far to "rebuild" this club back to its former glory. All of the rest of the transfers since Ole's arrival (Maguire, Wan Bissika, Bruno, VDB and so on) were all made and signed by Ed, his chefs and lawyers.

Ehm... wasn't last year he was lauded as the DOF of the century because he bought AWB, Maguire, and James? So when the it goes pear shaped it's now Ed's?

 

[suhaylah]

Is it true that the club is looking to appoint Pochettino?

 

[VP89]

It would be very unfair to show Ole the door, he has been given absolutely no authority over transfer signings. The only official purchase from his personal transfer list has been Daniel James for £15 million, he's been literally only been given £15m so far to "rebuild" this club back to its former glory. All of the rest of the transfers since Ole's arrival (Maguire, Wan Bissika, Bruno, VDB and so on) were all made and signed by Ed, his chefs and lawyers.

Where have you pulled that from?

 

[Sky1981]

"If only depressed people tried to be more positive, they wouldn't be so depressed." That's the level of argument you're making here.

At the end of the day, they're still human. Getting paid well doesn't prevent your from getting physically and emotionally drained, it doesn't prevent you from losing motivation if you feel your efforts aren't being rewarded.

Both of your arguments works perfectly if we assume players only care about their paycheck, and not winning games and trophies. If they care about winning games and trophies, than seeing the effort to achieve those things hampered will harm their motivation.

So does every other footballers on the planet, you don't hear them sulk every week.

And yes they only care about paychecks, you tell me players like Paul Pogba really cares for this club? Or Martial? Or Maguire? or Shaw?

So? They down tool even before the ball is kicked and trasnfer deadline isn't even up?

Stop bending realities mate, it's not healthy

 

[Halftrack]

No need to put words into my mouth. Read exactly what I wrote instead of making comparisons with a medical condition such as clinical depression.

You mean where you suggested players aren't allowed to feel let down and lose motivation because they're paid well? Where you wrote off potential lack of motivation and mental fatigue, and feeling let down as "crying"?

 

[Halftrack]

So does every other footballers on the planet, you don't hear them sulk every week.

And yes they only care about paychecks, you tell me players like Paul Pogba really cares for this club? Or Martial? Or Maguire? or Shaw?

So? They down tool even before the ball is kicked and trasnfer deadline isn't even up?

Stop bending realities mate, it's not healthy

I mean, it doesn't seem like that's all they care about. Otherwise, you wouldn't have players complaining about being out of the team, or getting visibly angry and frustrated on the pitch.

And I never said they cared about the club, I said they care about winning games and trophies.

I'm also not saying they downed tools, I'm saying that if they feel that the club has failed to build on the hard work they put down last season, they might lose some motivation. I'm sure last season was draining both mentally and physically, especially given Covid-19 and all the associated worries, and they now feel as if they're in for another season where they're going to have to flog themselves to achieve anything because we still lack quality in depth (or even just depth) in a number of critical areas.

If you lack motivation, it doesn't really matter how hard you try at something, you're unlikely to be able to do it to the best of your ability.

Tell me, how bad is your reading comprehension? Because you've completely failed to grasp anything I've written so far.

 

[He'sRaldo]

You mean where you suggested players aren't allowed to feel let down and lose motivation because they're paid well? Where you wrote off potential lack of motivation and mental fatigue, and feeling let down as "crying"?

They can feel whatever they want, but when they get on the pitch they shouldn't use that as an excuse to perform so badly. I mean 1-6 because of lack of motivation? That's criminal.

And to be clear and honest I think the motivation excuse is just that, an excuse. We've simply been unprofessional in preparation, both the players and the staff, and have played rubbish for 3 games now, and it has nothing to do with the transfer market.

 

[Gehrman]

So if we weren't prepared to pay 120 mil for Sancho why didn't we have a plan B? We never seem to have a plan B.

 

[Roboc7]

"Ran out of ideas" my arse. He was rebuilding a squad that fell apart while he was away. His assistant took over and reaped the rewards of that work, and now the team is starting to come undone again. Skullerud and Moe might have won the league, but they did so with Ole's teams, and both proved entirely incapable of sustaining that level of performance for more than one season.

Unless you actually follow the Norwegian league, stop commenting on it. It's embarrassing to read some "expert" (regurgitating some complete fiction that some other "expert" dreamed up after glancing at league tables on Wikipedia) act as if they know anything about the Norwegian league.

Not how I got my information by looking at Wiki or glancing at a league table, you seem overly sensitive and narrow minded so I’ll leave it there.

 

[Abhinav]

So if we're in agreement that Pogba can be world class in the right system and with the right players around him, why aren't we doing anything to give him the chance to perform at the level we know he can perform at? Why are we persisting with playing him in a system that he's ineffective in? If he's ineffective in this system you either bank on him and mold the team to suit him or you drop him and/or sell him. Ole's doing neither. We haven't been after a defensive midfielder since Ole came here, despite knowing that Pogba flourishes in a system where his main responsibility is in attack (as we saw when Ole took over). So basically Ole's just doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Deschamps also plays him as part of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1, yes, but saying it's the same role is a massive simplification IMO. Having Kanté around him who can win the ball and lay it off to him for a quick forward pass is vastly different to what he's expected to do here. We don't have a player to win the ball like Kanté does, and by the time we get the ball to Pogba the opponents have already settled. We're way too slow in getting the ball to him, and we're not moving without the ball once we get it in the same way Griezmann and Mbappé do, which leads to Pogba dallying on the ball in deep positions and losing it.

I agree with the last part of your post. We don't really have the perfect midfielders to act as fulcrum to Pogba for various reasons. Matic doesn't have the legs, Fred just hasn't shown enough. We could try a diamond with Fred/Matic, vdB, Bruno and Pogba, but that requires a lot of attacking from our full backs who are, oh wait, shit at attacking (decision on Telles pending). It begs the question as to why we haven't been in the market for one in the four transfer windows since Ole came? I haven't seen enough of Partey to judge whether he's the one for example, but he was available for €50m all summer and we weren't even looking at him apparently.

I think thats where we fundamentally disagree. I don't think Pogba is world class, certainly not consistently over a season. He can have world class moments, even runs of 4-5 matches but having seen him for 4 years at united, IMO he is not a wc midfielder who you base your team around. I think next season Pogba will be sold and we will bring in a new midfielder in the mould of Carrick that can add balance to our team. Over this season also I believe we will start seeing more of vdb and less of Pogba in the midfield. Ole has got a plan but you can’t change everything in one go, especially when each new signing seems to take ages to get over the line.

 

[Sky1981]

I mean, it doesn't seem like that's all they care about. Otherwise, you wouldn't have players complaining about being out of the team, or getting visibly angry and frustrated on the pitch.

And I never said they cared about the club, I said they care about winning games and trophies.

I'm also not saying they downed tools, I'm saying that if they feel that the club has failed to build on the hard work they put down last season, they might lose some motivation. I'm sure last season was draining both mentally and physically, especially given Covid-19 and all the associated worries, and they now feel as if they're in for another season where they're going to have to flog themselves to achieve anything because we still lack quality in depth (or even just depth) in a number of critical areas.

If you lack motivation, it doesn't really matter how hard you try at something, you're unlikely to be able to do it to the best of your ability.

Tell me, how bad is your reading comprehension? Because you've completely failed to grasp anything I've written so far.

You're writing a fan fiction so distorted just to justify ole.

Maybe ole is just not that good of a manager.

 

[Halftrack]

They can feel whatever they want, but when they get on the pitch they shouldn't use that as an excuse to perform so badly. I mean 1-6 because of lack of motivation? That's criminal.

You're acting as if humans can just turn off negative feelings at will. That's not how it works.

Not how I got my information by looking at Wiki or glancing at a league table, you seem overly sensitive and narrow minded so I’ll leave it there.

I'm just extremely tired of half-assed, surface-level analyses of Ole's second stint at Molde. How he failed, or ran out of ideas, stagnated, couldn't repeat his success. To anyone that follows the league, it's grating, especially when it's used to discredit Ole.

 

[hobbers]

It would be very unfair to show Ole the door, he has been given absolutely no authority over transfer signings. The only official purchase from his personal transfer list has been Daniel James for £15 million, he's been literally only been given £15m so far to "rebuild" this club back to its former glory. All of the rest of the transfers since Ole's arrival (Maguire, Wan Bissika, Bruno, VDB and so on) were all made and signed by Ed, his chefs and lawyers.

This is all revisionist nonsense.

Back when AWB and Maguire were still being lauded as great signings, "hungry English players, right age, right mentality, Ole has turned the clubs broken transfer policy around in one window blah blah blah", the argument from Ole's staunchest supporters, as the results went to shit, was that he was personally deeply involved in all of our transfers that summer. These transfers were his saving grace against a backdrop of awful football and results over the winter.

He spoke to Phelan about Maguire, Maguire was his number one target. He spoke to Neville about AWB, AWB was his number one target. He spoke to Giggs about James etc etc.

Now the line is that he had nothing to do with signing Maguire and AWB? Am I reading that right?