I think they are afraid to hire a director of football because with how shambolic the club is it would just be another high profile sack and search, rinse and repeat, cycle.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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If Ole goes Woodward goes too. Ole is not taking the bullet for that man. If Ole isn't good enough then fine but Ed Woodward is much much worse at his job. We've been a laughing stock for far longer than Ole has been back.
Both go or Ole in all the way. The club is toxic. Ole saying 'the club know my view on transfers' the other day shows he's not happy I think. He's never going to rant like Jose but I think Ole is fed up with Ed already. Good!
Both go or Ole in all the way. The club is toxic. Ole saying 'the club know my view on transfers' the other day shows he's not happy I think. He's never going to rant like Jose but I think Ole is fed up with Ed already. Good!
I feel like i did 2 years ago - At the key moment where we needed to kick on, the manager didnt get backed. No doubt Ole will stay calm unlike Jose, but inside he must know he’s been hung out to dry.
Never mind City and Liverpool, all the teams competing for top 4 are stronger this year.
Just maybe Ole is out of his depth, but 3rd was about as high as could have been hoped for last year.
Also were all the signings really Ole’s targets or priorities? Just like under Jose towards the end I get the sense that its Ed Judge etc doing the choosing.
Never mind City and Liverpool, all the teams competing for top 4 are stronger this year.
Just maybe Ole is out of his depth, but 3rd was about as high as could have been hoped for last year.
Also were all the signings really Ole’s targets or priorities? Just like under Jose towards the end I get the sense that its Ed Judge etc doing the choosing.
Fair points, I guess, but then again, Sancho was not the only RW we could’ve brought in for this season.
That's a huge exaggeration. If going from 6th to 3rd isn't an improvement then what is? We've also played some of the best football since Fergie under Solskjaer so there have been signs of improvement. Whether or not he is the manager to take us forward I don't know, but we'll see this coming season.
You would be remarkably naive if you thought it was done any other way? Mourinho was hired literally as VdG was showing off his FA Cup-trophy. Real Madrid and Bayern hire managers the day after the last one is canned. No room for sentiment if the manager isn’t equipped for the job.
He is already on borrowed time. The sooner it ends, the better.
A manager who cannot coach has no business managing United.
A manager who cannot coach has no business managing United.
Done the same with Jose. We contacted Jose whilst LVG was the manager.
Footballing wise, always expect the worst from this football club.
No, the sooner we start winning games the better. For Ole to get sacked we need to lose and it is plain daft to want that.
A manager who cannot coach has no business anywhere, that’s obvious.
I liked Ole as a player. As a manager I find him nervous and unable to talk very well. I know English is his second language but I cringe when I listen to him and I think he struggles to get people's attention. I feel a bit sorry for him really because he should never have been given the job. Hopefully the club can find a manager who communicates clearly and is a bit more charismatic. Would love to see Potch as I think the players would spark under him.
We need to back the manager.
Been a very Poor start, we have looked off the pace but that on sunday was shocking. I'm putting the blame squarely at the feet of the defence mostly. Never seen defending like it from the very start.
Hard to blame the manager when your expensive centreback can't even do the simple stuff for the first and second goal. Shaw was just running about into spaces and positions he shouldn't been near, was like watching someone play 6 a side. Comedy wouldnt be the word. The 4th goal was prob tbe worse, Maguire runs out left and shaw in middle decides to run out to the corner off the box to no one left a big hole and they scored again. I know the Manager has to set the team up but if your first choice defence cant even do the basics right, the simple stuff, you have no hope in a match, any tactics go out the window.
Another window where instead of building on the strong finish last year where we went undefeated in the league and came 3rd, the board havent showed ambition and backed him properly. All they have done is hamper him with waiting months to buy the players on the very last day, a striker they dont need, and 2 young players who arent going to be ready. Telles is the only signing I think they actually needed to improve the team as shaw not up to the task.
We need to get behind him, hes shown he can get us playing well in the league to go on a run, and his record in big matches is pretty good. The season starts against Newcastle, only a point behind city
I'm just worried that the defence is completely shellshocked.
Been a very Poor start, we have looked off the pace but that on sunday was shocking. I'm putting the blame squarely at the feet of the defence mostly. Never seen defending like it from the very start.
Hard to blame the manager when your expensive centreback can't even do the simple stuff for the first and second goal. Shaw was just running about into spaces and positions he shouldn't been near, was like watching someone play 6 a side. Comedy wouldnt be the word. The 4th goal was prob tbe worse, Maguire runs out left and shaw in middle decides to run out to the corner off the box to no one left a big hole and they scored again. I know the Manager has to set the team up but if your first choice defence cant even do the basics right, the simple stuff, you have no hope in a match, any tactics go out the window.
Another window where instead of building on the strong finish last year where we went undefeated in the league and came 3rd, the board havent showed ambition and backed him properly. All they have done is hamper him with waiting months to buy the players on the very last day, a striker they dont need, and 2 young players who arent going to be ready. Telles is the only signing I think they actually needed to improve the team as shaw not up to the task.
We need to get behind him, hes shown he can get us playing well in the league to go on a run, and his record in big matches is pretty good. The season starts against Newcastle, only a point behind city
I'm just worried that the defence is completely shellshocked.
No one had said Maguire is a Woody signing. Stop with the strawmen please. No one can deny hes been fecking dreadful at the start of this season and him and the coaches need to do some real work to get back up on their feet. And of course Ole has a say in the signings, but its not like he has complete autonomy and certainly not over stuff like transfer fees and wages. The players are employed by the club, not the manager
And i do really think this whole salary discussion is irrelevant. He earns well because we're a huge club with lots of funds. His yearly income is still below the likes of Shaw and Mata and about half of what Pogba takes home so no i dont really think thats an issue.
And of course its not about transfers, but i'd say its pretty damn important. In fact, the most important skill for any manager. If i were to list up manager "qualities" i'd say this would be it.
1. Squad building: Identifying and getting the right players is the most important thing for any manager
2. Motivational skills: At this level every player needs to be 100% motivated
3. Coaching: Going by this thread one could think its THE most important thing in the world and everything comes down to it and i think its just bollocks. Of course its important to train to stay sharp and fit and players can improve certain technical and tactical skills and to a smaller extent physical attributes, but every player on the planet is still limited by their natural talent and physique and they are not pieces of clay you can mould into anything you like. No amount of coaching is going to turn Scott Parker into KDB because thats not the kind of player he is
4. Tactical skills: Its not rocket science and if 90% of armchair managers can figure it out, im sure managers can do to
Case in point: Klopp is a fantastic coach that really knows how to implement his style, but i'd argue his best quality as a manager has been his squad building. Almost every single of their transfers have been a huge success and a perfect fit for how they want to play. Salah and Mane for example have been the best attackers in the league under him and it would not have worked half as good if he had a lumbering oaf like Lukaku up top, even though hes a "good player" in his own right
And this whole idea that we as fans has the power to demand Oles head, but somehow Woody is untouchable is just weird. Unless someone of the Caf sits on the board they have as little power over Oles employment as Woodys. Before the lockdown the heat really turned up on Woody and it got results
Is this a WUM?
I’m an honest human being and cards on the table whether it works against me or not. I’d rather be honest. When ole was first appointed I had no qualms at all. Club legend temp charge only, that’s fine.
then we had that amazing run and I actually thought okay let’s give him a chance even though his CV is nowhere near acceptable. As soon as he became the perm manager the players attitude and consistency changed overnight. It became apparent pretty quickly the first ten games were like riding the crest of a wave and probably the worst thing that could have happened was winning those games which has unfortunately and cruely exposed his massive weaknesses since then as a manager. But when you know something isnt and won’t be good enough you have to change it regardless of how much he’s loved. The inners are refusing to see this, he is being supported still when it is now clear as day he can’t hack the job. Maybe he can in ten years and come back but not now and keeping him will cause us greater harm in the long run. We have to face these facts as our club is in danger again like it was in the early seventies. We have to act now regardless of our liking for ole. This squad is easily a top 4 team, easily compared to the rest of the prem. We can’t keep on supporting him through this, we need to understand he’s deeply flawed regardless. United and it’s future has to come first and that can only mean ole has to go. when I was 10 years old in 1983 and started supporting Utd, it used to burn me to the core every year as Livercr@p won titles and European cups as we just rotted away. Have you lived through those days? I can’t handle a second stint of that at this stage of my life. It’s starting to burn inside me again and I’m recognising the signs of the wilderness years again. He has to go now and we need to start looking for the next managerial gem or a solid veteran manager with a good football playing style. After all we are the biggest and greatest club in the world regardless of what’s happening now.
And
you know I don’t know what a WUM is but I can recognise a useless manager unlike some people and he is getting paid well enough so people need to stop moaning about his treatment. He will walk away with millions in his pocket after doing a poor job.
And that lack of backing affects the players, too. They ran themselves into the ground for that 3rd place, only to see the board fail to build on that effort. Now we're in for a congested season with minimal strengthening, so they're presumably expected to flog themselves again. Both they and Ole will feel they've been let down, and rightly so.
do some reading like the rest of us it’s hard to keep up with you inners and all your excuses but it is there in black and white on a few ole threads. Do your own work
That's nonsense, they're very very well paid to not be outplayed by lesser teams in the manner they are doing. Ditto the manager.
Everyone should concentrate on their job on the pitch and training ground, instead of crying about external factors and transfers.
And it is quite unlikely that we are ever going to win matches in a consistent basis with Ole as our manager. We had a purple patch last season (called it that when people were saying that it was different) based on individual qualities from players, but there was never a consistent coherent gameplay. Since Ole has came, for the most part we have been utter shit.
Ole doesn’t even do the coaching which is weird in itself. And the squad looks totally uncoached, totally unable to press, totally unable to deal with getting pressed. This is not a title winning squad, but hardly as bad as being by far the second best squad in 3 consecutive league matches.
I really wonder what the job description is. What on earth is Ole being paid to do if not to coach his team and manage on the sidelines?
If he's sacked for being top 4 I'll march for him. Not if he's sacked for being bottom 4.
We bought 5 new players. Even without sancho that's good enough for top 4. Mind you we finished 3rd last season. Sold no one important, add 5 depths.
I didn’t have a problem with him to start with but once you see extreme average ness at best you can’t accept it. Can’t defend this and he won’t get better with his current ability and it will take donkey years for him to get there so in the meantime go somewhere else (if they’ll have him) and learn and earn that Utd job. No current prem team will employ him and as Rafa the idiot Benitez said.,,,, FACT
God knows. I guess as interim manager he was supposed to tighten the ship, bring some positivity and finish the season. Unfortunately, it seems that as a permanent manager he is doing exactly the same.
Dude it's the first 3 games of the league. Not the last 10 games.
Felt let down? They're the own letting the fans down they have no right to complain
Lets see how Ole had been doing by your own criteria:
1) He has bought poorly and one could argue sold poorly.
2) don't know how this gets measured but i'd say average at best.
3,4) Kind of the same point and another thing Ole has done poorly.
You really truly believe that no manager can get this team working or winning? You also believe the likes of Beisla who has Leeds playing well and probably will beat us with a side costing under £50m couldn't do anything with these players?
Agreed. It's actually insane at this point to hold the belief that OGS can't do better with this squad and that another manager wouldn't change anything.
Yes we all know the entire club is a mess but our first team is not that bad in all honestly, yet we've been absolutely awful to watch except for a few good runs here and there. After that PSG game we were awful for a year, then we had a few good games after the lockdown and that is pretty much it as far as positives for OGS as a manager.
Any decent manager with an actual game plan would do better than him.
How has he bought poorly? Bruno, AWB and Maguire are all solid signings although the latter two has been complete shit the first games of this season and the fact that Marital, Fred among others have been taking it a step up proves hes at least a decent motivator.
And i have said this before, but ill say it again: When we played well from February onwards were we well coached then? Did our coaching suddenly turn to shit over the summer or just maybe there are other factors in play here
Wind up merchant, and that was because your reply was a lousy strawman with no basis in reality. Not a single poster on here has suggested he does not get compensated for his position and i dont think anyone cares about what people say about him as long as its not outright abuse (which there has been)
And this is not you specifically, but the amount of knee jerk reaction in here are just fecking absurd. Yeah, Sunday was a complete disaster from everyone involved, but is Ole the only one to blame here? Because judging by this thread it sure seems like thats how many people feel. He fulfilled (or even exceed) the expectations for last season and one would think that would give him a bit more rope with the fans, but nope. Three shitty games and the knives are out again and the "supporters" are howling for blood.
The most fun part though is in our good period from February onwards many of his most outspoken critics where either silent or reluctantly admitted they might have been to harsh and three games into the season they flip flop again and demand his sacking. If you are that much of a drama queen in real life you must be a pain to be around
Ahh bless your little ole loving socks but still go do your own reading you lazy so and so ;-)
Whatever about transfers, is he doing the best he can with what he has ? Is he improving players? Is he motivating players? Has he a system in place?
I was all for keeping Olé but I have no idea what he is trying to do. The team is a shambles. We can complain about the lack of transfers, but he is the one coaching them and picking the team/gameplan. They aren't bad players. All of them cost or are paid a fortune, some both. It's simply not good enough and the patterns were there to see it coming.
I was all for keeping Olé but I have no idea what he is trying to do. The team is a shambles. We can complain about the lack of transfers, but he is the one coaching them and picking the team/gameplan. They aren't bad players. All of them cost or are paid a fortune, some both. It's simply not good enough and the patterns were there to see it coming.
I’ve been verbally abused on this forum for saying ole should be sacked. Get over it I say and I don’t bat an eyelid.
I have wanted. Ole out for a long while and he is not good enough. As for drama queen you would nt say that to my face as I can probably bench your weight so why throw words at me like that. Because it’s easy!!’ Nice double standards you live fella
And at what quality, readiness, and timeline have these 5 players been bought? Are all 5 ready to start the next game? I can't believe you are able to say we bought 5 players with a straight face when 2 of them are 18 year olds (of which one will join us in January), 1 is a 33 year old with no match fitness and will most likely not be able to play/contribute meaningfully for another 4-6 weeks. Only Vdb and. Telles directly strengthen the match day squad.
We do not operate in isolation, we are in a competitive league where we finished 3rd last season and all of our immediate rivals except Leicester have strengthened significantly to compete for Top 4. So instead of consolidating on our Top 3 finish and looking to close the gap to Liverpool and Man City, we will be again scrapping for a Top 4 finish. Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham and us have an equal claim to finish in the top 4 (without bringing in the dark horses Leicester and Everton). So when you say good enough for Top 4 your are undermining what a Top 4 achievement will mean. A top 4 achievement for any of the 4 managers (except for maybe Lampard) means that they would have outperformed their immediate peers.
It’s not weird it’s reality, managers get sacked and Woodward doesn’t. Whether people like it or not that’s what will happen, if Ole isn’t good enough to do his job no point keeping him just because Woodward isn’t either.
It’s a common theme I’ve noticed, people praising Ole for selling deadwood then blaming board for incomings or lack of them. It’s same people involved in the food and bad transfers, how much responsibility each person involved has none of us know.
What is clear is that Ole and the board have no idea how to rebuild, they’ve got a very simplistic view and are spending huge amounts on wrong players then not budgeting enough to buy others.
The lack of a DoF has been bemoaned a lot. We're not getting anywhere with that at all.
However, if a manager comes in and says "I'm a 4-2-3-1 manager", should we expect of a "top class" manager to not be able to change his formation at all to suit the players at his disposal? Four transfer windows and we're still persisting with Pogba in a CDM role, expecting him to protect the defense. Are you fecking serious, like? Shouldn't he try to adapt to the players he has rather than push square pegs in round holes and hope the pegs change shape?
Could poch get more out of this young talented squad? If the answer is yes, then ole should go.
That’s if Poch would even want to come...
That’s if Poch would even want to come...
In a way that’s true, SAF spent money like crazy but he also had the youth class that came through as well.
We can’t buy any player we want like we used to do as all clubs now have access to big money pots in the prem with the new sky deals etc so other clubs becoming much more fluid financially and being able to fork out the kind of money on transfers they couldn’t in the very early prem years and before, is also hampering us and driving costs up for us in particular. Sancho is not worth more than 60-70 at best. I’m getting sick of clubs using us for more money.
We can’t buy any player we want like we used to do as all clubs now have access to big money pots in the prem with the new sky deals etc so other clubs becoming much more fluid financially and being able to fork out the kind of money on transfers they couldn’t in the very early prem years and before, is also hampering us and driving costs up for us in particular. Sancho is not worth more than 60-70 at best. I’m getting sick of clubs using us for more money.
Nice post
Sack him now then whoever top managers to replace him will also want to do as per their own philosophy. That's what modern managers nowdays do.
So many threads about sacking/keeping Ole and the board that I don't even know where to post, so I'll just go here. As with Moyes, LVG and Jose, I think Ole should walk if he fails to get us into top 4. The first season didn't count, too big of a mountain to climb, although he should have gotten it in the end, sadly we collapsed in the end. Feel like you need to win a few league titles before you deserve to stay after finishing outside top 4.
That being said, I feel bad for him, and for the club. Yes, the likes of Chelsea, Madrid, Bayern and Barcelona always change managers, even those who have won important titles for them, and they do it without suffering too much and getting back to winning ways fast, even with lesser managers. I honestly think it's like that for them because of the club hierarchy. Everyone respects the people who run Bayern, Barcelona is often in shambles but them and Real have no real competition in Spain and the people in charge know their football and are way more ambitious in footballing terms then we have been post Fergie. We really seem to be happy enough with being in the Champions League, if not we'd go all out on buying ourselves back into being title contenders, because it's not just the changes made in management that has brought Bayern, Barcelona and Chelsea back on top after another failure.
If the stories of Ed promising Klopp a footballing Disneyland, it kind of really shows that our club is run by memes. Feel like we're one or two sackings away from a situation where we'll struggle to hire world class managers. Our pulling power will be reduced to money we pay the managers. Respect towards Ed and the Glazers are already thin. I hope that Ole's departure will be thought through, that the new manager will be able to carry out his vision and that the club will support them. If the board is not hellbent on winning trophies then the manager's hands are tied as well. If we won't hire a DOF then increase the powers that managers have over footballing vision, the board is not capable of being in charge of the project, the process or whatever feck you wish to call it.
That being said, I feel bad for him, and for the club. Yes, the likes of Chelsea, Madrid, Bayern and Barcelona always change managers, even those who have won important titles for them, and they do it without suffering too much and getting back to winning ways fast, even with lesser managers. I honestly think it's like that for them because of the club hierarchy. Everyone respects the people who run Bayern, Barcelona is often in shambles but them and Real have no real competition in Spain and the people in charge know their football and are way more ambitious in footballing terms then we have been post Fergie. We really seem to be happy enough with being in the Champions League, if not we'd go all out on buying ourselves back into being title contenders, because it's not just the changes made in management that has brought Bayern, Barcelona and Chelsea back on top after another failure.
If the stories of Ed promising Klopp a footballing Disneyland, it kind of really shows that our club is run by memes. Feel like we're one or two sackings away from a situation where we'll struggle to hire world class managers. Our pulling power will be reduced to money we pay the managers. Respect towards Ed and the Glazers are already thin. I hope that Ole's departure will be thought through, that the new manager will be able to carry out his vision and that the club will support them. If the board is not hellbent on winning trophies then the manager's hands are tied as well. If we won't hire a DOF then increase the powers that managers have over footballing vision, the board is not capable of being in charge of the project, the process or whatever feck you wish to call it.
Yes, every manager wants to shape the side to fit their preference, but in the meantime they adapt to what they have to work with. Conte won the PL with Victor Moses as a right wing back, for Christ’s sake. He had a system that he wanted to use but brought in a previously frozen out player because he suited the system.
Now if you don’t have a particular system that you prefer, then you create a system that suits the players at your disposal.
Ole has done neither. He sticks to a rigid system and then uses players who are good but clearly not suited for the role that he persists playing them in, Pogba being the prime example. Now he’s using Greenwood as a right winger in a 4-2-3-1 and is being criticized because he doesn’t help AWB enough defensively. We have no attack down the right hand side because AWB can’t attack, but are we seeing him doing anything about that? Nope, we’ll be seeing Greenwood and AWB occupying that right hand side unless something drastically changes, and I doubt that the coaching team will make a defender out of Greenwood or an attacker out of AWB.
With Ole, it’s 4-2-3-1 week in week out with the eleven best players on paper until they’re run into the ground and then it’s moan moan moan I need a new squad of £50-100m players.
I mean, for pretty much the price of Maguire and AWB he could’ve had Aarons, Kabak, Telles and Partey which would’ve been much better if squad depth was identified as an issue early on.
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