Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild

Results are only viewable after voting.
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TheGame said:
But it’s not the first time we’ve had a poor start to the season and won’t be the last. As I’ve stated, it’s best to judge the table after 10 games to see how things stand not after 2.
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That's fair.

Just like with Mourinho, a good standpoint is either good football or title challenge, and preferably both. So we should be expecting one of the two this season. Title challenge as everyone has said is very unlikely, so good football is the minimum the club should be asking from its manager. As the manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world it's not the biggest ask really.
 
He'sRaldo said:
We really can't be writing off seasons as Man Utd simply because we missed out on a target or two.

If we had the best manager in the world we wouldn't be too worried about that, but lines like those give the feeling that we're trying to buy the best players to accommodate a lesser quality manager.
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Most of the players who have failed under previous managers have improved under Solskjaer, but some of them just aren't good enough to be in a top 4 side, let alone challenging for titles. We absolutely need improvements, not many but we need more dynamism up front. At the moment the static nature of our forward line makes us predictable.

So you're saying we shouldn't sign Sancho, instead we should sign Pep or Klopp and let them turn James into Sancho?
 
crossy1686 said:
Most of the players who have failed under previous managers have improved under Solskjaer, but some of them just aren't good enough to be in a top 4 side, let alone challenging for titles. We absolutely need improvements, not many but we need more dynamism up front. At the moment the static nature of our forward line makes us predictable.
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Depends on your definition of failure. The players have achieved more under other managers than Ole, so to me it's not yet correct to say they failed under others but succeeded under him.

With that said, I agree that reinforcements would be very welcomed to make things a lot easier.

crossy1686 said:
So you're saying we shouldn't sign Sancho, instead we should sign Pep or Klopp and let them turn James into Sancho?
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No I didn't say that, but since you bring it up I would definitely take Pep or especially Klopp over Sancho.
 
georgipep said:
Yeah, works wonders for them, not having scored this season yet and being one of the most defensive sides in the league.

The triangles are something I quite like and they defend in packs of three, which helps pass and release the ball quickly but they are really clueless in attack.
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They've got worse players than us, probably explains the cluelessness. But compared to us, they seem to have a system. Our players seem to just make it up as they go along, relying on their talents instead of them being coached. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me from the outside.

I'm not Ole out but I'm concerned how things have been going out there on pitch.
 
dev1l said:
We cannot challenge for the title with this squad.

You cannot make up for years and years of mismanagement in one or two seasons especially when you are competing with teams like City who are ahead of you and are investing same amounts as you are.
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Arguing we shouldnt get abetter manager because this squad can not challenge for the title is like saying we shouldnt bring Sancho either.

Thats a lame excuse, we need to improve every department. Coaching and players, it seems Ole ins demand a worldclass squad to carry Ole. Its easier to get a manager that makes the team better than the sum of their parts that to get a full worldclass XI.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Arguing we shouldnt get abetter manager because this squad can not challenge for the title is like saying we shouldnt bring Sancho either.

Thats a lame excuse, we need to improve every department. Coaching and players, it seems Ole ins demand a worldclass squad to carry Ole. Its easier to get a manager that makes the team better than the sum of their parts that to get a full worldclass XI.
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So you're saying we shouldn't sign Sancho because buying world class players shouldn't be needed to win a league title?
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
He's been here for a season and a half. He spent the first half season dragging a lifeless team to within a win of a top 4 finish while starting the likes of Lingard, Smalling, Ashley Young and Lukaku.

He started the second season with an injury crisis and ended it with a 3rd place finish, a European semifinal and a cup semi.

He has the players playing for him, trusting him and never looking out of place even against much better teams talent wise. If he was such a mediocre manager the players would be the first ones to know and show that in their performance.
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I'm sorry but how on earth can you say any of this without a "/s" at the end? We've had injury crisis' for all our managers at this point. They didn't get that excuse. Even with injuries we should be able to beat Crystal Palace and Burnley at home. Yes, we almost got a top 4 finish. The new manager bump is often a thing and after Mourinho, of course the players would play better for the new manager. As soon as we were in distance of keeping fourth that season, the team started playing like shit again. That's on the manager.

I really couldn't care less if he has the managers playing for him and trusting him. So do plenty of managers and they don't lose to midtier teams regularly and often play with some sort of system. Why does it matter if mediocre players want to play for a manager? He could take those players to West Brom or something if that matters. You say he doesn't make players look out of place? Are you serious?

AWB - Regressed over last season, looks awful this season.
Maguire - More error prone than at Leicester by miles.
Lindelof - Hasn't progressed at all, error prone
James - Plays out of position (better on left) and has only gotten worse over his time here
Pogba - Massively regressed since coming to the club (not all Ole's fault as Mourinho contributed to that) and is literally always out of place since he's forced into a holding mid position
Lingard - Looks even worse since Ole has arrived

Not a single player outside of Greenwood and Martial can be considered "better' because of Ole.

He earned the right to manage this season by finishing 4th the last, and he will hopefully improve as a manager, obviously I want that. I just don't think he will.

Also weird how Smalling, Lukaku, and Sanchez are all performing well elsewhere (and two of them got further in the competition than us) if Ole is a quality manager.
 
Flytan said:
I'm sorry but how on earth can you say any of this without a "/s" at the end? We've had injury crisis' for all our managers at this point. They didn't get that excuse. Even with injuries we should be able to beat Crystal Palace and Burnley at home. Yes, we almost got a top 4 finish. The new manager bump is often a thing and after Mourinho, of course the players would play better for the new manager. As soon as we were in distance of keeping fourth that season, the team started playing like shit again. That's on the manager.

I really couldn't care less if he has the managers playing for him and trusting him. So do plenty of managers and they don't lose to midtier teams regularly and often play with some sort of system. Why does it matter if mediocre players want to play for a manager? He could take those players to West Brom or something if that matters. You say he doesn't make players look out of place? Are you serious?

AWB - Regressed over last season, looks awful this season.
Maguire - More error prone than at Leicester by miles.
Lindelof - Hasn't progressed at all, error prone
James - Plays out of position (better on left) and has only gotten worse over his time here
Pogba - Massively regressed since coming to the club (not all Ole's fault as Mourinho contributed to that) and is literally always out of place since he's forced into a holding mid position
Lingard - Looks even worse since Ole has arrived

Not a single player outside of Greenwood and Martial can be considered "better' because of Ole.

He earned the right to manage this season by finishing 4th the last, and he will hopefully improve as a manager, obviously I want that. I just don't think he will.

Also weird how Smalling, Lukaku, and Sanchez are all performing well elsewhere (and two of them got further in the competition than us) if Ole is a quality manager.
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Whole load of typing I won’t read :wenger:
 
sammsky1 said:
Whole load of typing I won’t read :wenger:
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I'll save you the job. It was bollocks about players regressing despite playing for shit teams then coming to United and not being amazing from day one. On top of that no mention of how they're asked to play differently at United, as if this is a like for like swap from their current club.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Why not listen to what he actually said instead of putting words in his mouth?
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He said we're trying to sign world class players to make Ole look better. Quite frankly I find this notion of not signing world class players to expose the manager like sending male models round to your house every day to prove your wife is cheating on you.
 
crossy1686 said:
So you're saying we shouldn't sign Sancho because buying world class players shouldn't be needed to win a league title?
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Im saying we should sign better players and we should sign a better manager. Because to win the league title we need good players and a worldclass manager.

Currently I feel we are more distant in the coaching quality than the squad quality.

We all now look al Liverpool and their players but a lot of them werent exactly top quality before Klopp. Firminho, Salah, Henderson, Wijnaldum, etc weren't pretended by top teams. Klopp turn them in to great players. Thats what we should aim for.

Do we really think Ole can reach those heights? Ole is not the worst manager in the league but certainly is not a special manager, and we need special.
 
Pep out. Jose out. Ole out. Lampard out.

Modern football fans are the worst.
 
crossy1686 said:
He said we're trying to sign world class players to make Ole look better. Quite frankly I find this notion of not signing world class players to expose the manager like sending male models round to your house every day to prove your wife is cheating on you.
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Haha that's quite the image.

I reckon he's saying not signing those targets shouldn't be an excuse for the manager, since every position is upgradable. A slight but important distinction.
 
NinjaZombie said:
They've got worse players than us, probably explains the cluelessness. But compared to us, they seem to have a system. Our players seem to just make it up as they go along, relying on their talents instead of them being coached. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like to me from the outside.

I'm not Ole out but I'm concerned how things have been going out there on pitch.
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Not sure if having an obvious defensive system is something you really want United to express. I think our attacking play has clear identity and patterns we are trying to execute, but because we lose almost all challenges and physical battles, we have too little time on the ball to actually accomplish anything.

Did you notice today how aggressive and good in tackling Sheffield United were? Leeds couldn't string two passes together because their markers were on their ankles immediately. Only when Sheffield tired and Leeds were able to build good attacks and maintain pressure.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Im saying we should sign better players and we should sign a better manager. Because to win the league title we need good players and a worldclass manager.

Currently I feel we are more distant in the coaching quality than the squad quality.

We all now look al Liverpool and their players but a lot of them werent exactly top quality before Klopp. Firminho, Salah, Henderson, Wijnaldum, etc weren't pretended by top teams. Klopp turn them in to great players. Thats what we should aim for.

Do we really think Ole can reach those heights? Ole is not the worst manager in the league but certainly is not a special manager, and we need special.
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We won't know what Ole's capable of until we back him and give him 4 to 5 years in the job to prove him can build that team like Klopp and Pochettino did. Klopp has bought a hell of a lot of players in his time at Liverpool.

In the mean time, I'm sure Pep didn't really want world class players like Messi and Koulibaly this window and it was all a smoke screen for signing Ake, whom he will make a world class player instead.
 
dev1l said:
Hoffenheim today won 4-1 vs Bayern - the European champions. Bayern are much superior. Just to give ve you an indication, Hoffenheim s record signing was at 11m euros.
It shouldn't be the case,no?
Should they sack their coach too?
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Sweet Jesus this is the most ridiculous post I've read in a long time. Have a word with yourself seriously. Do you honestly believe Solskjaer has earned the same benefit of the doubt as Flick?
 
He'sRaldo said:
Haha that's quite the image.

I reckon he's saying not signing those targets shouldn't be an excuse for the manager, since every position is upgradable. A slight but important distinction.
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I'm being facetious of course, but some of our positions are very upgradable and some not so upgradable. If there's a clear upgrade on something we currently have we should absolutely be in the market for it, not be worrying that it's going to make our manager somehow look better.
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Sweet Jesus this is the most ridiculous post I've read in a long time. Have a word with yourself seriously. Do you honestly believe Solskjaer has earned the same benefit of the doubt as Flick?
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Why? I think you are not getting the point. Has Solskjaer inherited the squad Flick did? And if Flick's brilliance is beyond doubt, why did they lose?
 
UDontMessWith24 said:
Ole has earned the same benefit of the doubt as Flick? Has to be a p*** take.
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I was explaining to another poster that any good team can lose and be outplayed be a lesser rated opponent. It happens with any team.
There s no guarantee that the best team will win.
(In real life that is. In Fifa 20 I don't know how it works)
 
Flytan said:
I'm sorry but how on earth can you say any of this without a "/s" at the end? We've had injury crisis' for all our managers at this point. They didn't get that excuse. Even with injuries we should be able to beat Crystal Palace and Burnley at home. Yes, we almost got a top 4 finish. The new manager bump is often a thing and after Mourinho, of course the players would play better for the new manager. As soon as we were in distance of keeping fourth that season, the team started playing like shit again. That's on the manager.

I really couldn't care less if he has the managers playing for him and trusting him. So do plenty of managers and they don't lose to midtier teams regularly and often play with some sort of system. Why does it matter if mediocre players want to play for a manager? He could take those players to West Brom or something if that matters. You say he doesn't make players look out of place? Are you serious?

AWB - Regressed over last season, looks awful this season.
Maguire - More error prone than at Leicester by miles.
Lindelof - Hasn't progressed at all, error prone
James - Plays out of position (better on left) and has only gotten worse over his time here
Pogba - Massively regressed since coming to the club (not all Ole's fault as Mourinho contributed to that) and is literally always out of place since he's forced into a holding mid position
Lingard - Looks even worse since Ole has arrived

Not a single player outside of Greenwood and Martial can be considered "better' because of Ole.

He earned the right to manage this season by finishing 4th the last, and he will hopefully improve as a manager, obviously I want that. I just don't think he will.

Also weird how Smalling, Lukaku, and Sanchez are all performing well elsewhere (and two of them got further in the competition than us) if Ole is a quality manager.
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Such a bad post.

Remind me where we finished last season?

Are you using Lukaku and Sanchez as a stick with which to beat OGS?

Sanchez is at the very least one of the top 5 worst signings the club have ever made. He’s certainly the most costly mistake we have made.

Lukaku - fat lazy, unprofessional player who scored 1 goal in 23 appearances against the top 6 in 2 years (under both Jose and OGS). I understand some questioned selling him at the time, only because we looked short up top and he might have been of some benefit as a reserve striker.

However, Rashford, Greenwood and Martial go and our score the front 3 of Liverpool.

I understand (don’t agree with) some of the criticism of the manager. But if anyone uses Sanchez and Lukaku as evidence of his being a poor manager - like you, I will consider them to know nothing about football.
 
crossy1686 said:
I'll save you the job. It was bollocks about players regressing despite playing for shit teams then coming to United and not being amazing from day one. On top of that no mention of how they're asked to play differently at United, as if this is a like for like swap from their current club.
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It's all too painful for me to read. I find myself getting more and more stupid every time I enter this thread.
 
crossy1686 said:
I'm being facetious of course, but some of our positions are very upgradable and some not so upgradable. If there's a clear upgrade on something we currently have we should absolutely be in the market for it, not be worrying that it's going to make our manager somehow look better.
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I definitely agree with that. I just wonder why for our club it doesn't apply to managers as surely as it does to players.
 
sammsky1 said:
The tragedy is they dont realise this self generated moronic angst only damages their own happiness and health? :lol:
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It’s exactly this.

Clearly they have such an unhappy and shit life that they have to communicate it into every part of their pathetic lives.

It is tragic.
 
crossy1686 said:
We won't know what Ole's capable of until we back him and give him 4 to 5 years in the job to prove him can build that team like Klopp and Pochettino did. Klopp has bought a hell of a lot of players in his time at Liverpool.

In the mean time, I'm sure Pep didn't really want world class players like Messi and Koulibaly this window and it was all a smoke screen for signing Ake, whom he will make a world class player instead.
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4 to 5 years? Youre mental. No manager in the world is given that much time before being demanded results.

Did I mentioned Pep at all? Why did you bring him? He's totally another type of manager, one who needs loads of money to bring a lot of specific players in order for his system to work.

I talked about Klopp, and while Klopp took years to win his first trophy the progress was palpable. Ole hasnt achieved anything remotely like that, were in a rollercoaster.

We can either be on a purple patch winning every match or we can be on relegation form for months. We depend on some players specific form, if Bruno and Martial are inspired we win. If they're not on their day we'll struggle to even create chances.

Our team is carried by individual player brilliance, thats not sustainable for a title challenge. Soon or later the player perform will drop and results will stop, thats why a system is needed, a system that hides the squad weaknesses and plays to our strenghts.

All I read here is how much we need better players to match Ole's system, well he should adapt the system to the players we have. He's been here for over 18 months now, should have solved that one by now. As I said, he got average/good results overall, but not excellent results. We need excellence to challenge Liverpool and City.
 
No defensive shape, no pressing triggers, no triangles, players not coached in positional play, no pride, no work ethic (did I miss anything?)

pepOUT

ooop. Sorry, wrong thread. :wenger:
 
He'sRaldo said:
I definitely agree with that. I just wonder why for us it doesn't apply to managers as surely as it does to players.
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Quite possibly, to some degree it does. The thing with management is though, you don't actually do a lot apart from tell people what you want them to do then you trust them to go out and do it. If they let you down you replace them with people who can do what you want.

Good managers have excellent communication skills and a clear vision, but also culturally have to fit in at the workplace and be a physical embodiment of what the company are striving for.

Let's look at Flick for example, if people knew he would win a CL with Bayern he'd have been in the job way before the other season. He gets the club, gets the players and has worked with them for a long time.

I'm not saying Solskjaer will win us a CL because he gets United but we've not had a single moment from him that we've had from Moyes, LVG or Mourinho who all spoke about how we're trying to be like our rivals or have no heritage. You lose all your employees and fans when you start saying stuff like that.
 
dev1l said:
I was explaining to another poster that any good team can lose and be outplayed be a lesser rated opponent. It happens with any team.
There s no guarantee that the best team will win.
(In real life that is. In Fifa 20 I don't know how it works)
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One match are you serious?! Nobody is arriving at the conclusion he's not good enough because of one game. FFS we lost points at least once against 8 of the bottom 10 clubs last season. Match after match the players lack focus and energy, so spare me the one game nonsense. A rudimentary understanding of professional team sports will tell you motivation ties in to energy and focus, and that's on the manager fair or not.
 
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