We need both to be honest. But, it is too early to judge Ole, especially after we finished 3rd. You never know. He might come good.
His squad building has been decent enough. If only the board of wankers could back him.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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His squad building has been decent enough. If only the board of wankers could back him.
Think he's doing fine. Not his fault we've got a squad full of average, overpaid players.
Yeah I mean people seem to be confusing fitness with match-fitness which you only get from playing matches. The players have played less matches than their opposition so some rustiness is to be expected.
I'm not absolving the players and the manager completely but there is some mitigation. I feel we were better and sharper today than against Palace, where we barely look capable of scoring, and we should be better again next week.
If we don't see an upward trend in sharpness, intensity, chance creation etc over the next few games then I'll be worried.
That is 100% the case. Manager is clearly a weakest part of the team and that is unfortunate because we have a promising starting XI at least that should be able to beat Palace and Brighton comfortably.
Whats that even supposed to mean? I simply don’t think Ole is anywhere near good enough, people seem to come up with so many excuses for him just because he was a great player for us once, as I said in another thread I had decided to give him a chance had he gone ahead and won the Europa seeing as we were in the semis with a squad good enough to beat all the remaining teams, but we lost didn’t even make to the finals, then lost to Aston Vila lost to Palace and then had Brighton outplay us and hit the post a record 5 times .
But on this forum no one is allowed to criticize Ole.
I don't see it either. I mean Ole has good intentions for sure, and I think we could be moderately successfull with him in charge, assuming the rest of the club was ticking along in perfectly. Since that's very far from being the case, he seems completely inadequate.
The more interesting (or perhaps gloomy question) is, who on earth could bring us any measure of top level success in these working conditions? And who would want to bother anymore? Even if we brought in someone like Nagelsmann - which won't happen, since he has much better options, and seems to smart to drink from such a poisoned chalice - how long until he throws in the towel like all the rest of them?
This fecking club, man
I'm not impessed with Solskjaer's third place any more than I was with Mourinho's second place. I knew Jose wasn't going to take us anywhere and I feel the same about Ole.
I was more impressed with some of the football we played late last season, and I would give Ole credit for getting Bruno and using the right team with him and Martial, Rashford and Greenwood, but that's about it. He kind of struck gold with those four mixing well, but it didn't last that long and since the team isn't coached well he always needs the individual talents of those four in the pitch. It's not sustainable.
As for his signings, I think there are major flaws with both Maguire and Wan Bissaka. So I'm not that impressed with his squad building either.
He's done better than the previous three managers and our squad is healthier than it was a couple of years ago. But the injection of quality that we were require includes manager and coaching.
Basically he can't win, you've made your mind up and either way win or lose you'll find a way to criticise him.
You've said it yourself there, on the fine margin of winning the Europa league you would have 'given him a chance'. Like Brighton were today we were the better team against Sevilla with multiple chances to score, but you see it differently, we deserve to lose both because of Ole in your eyes.
Criticism is fine, there is a Solskjaer performance thread for that. Plenty of stuff to go at. But this is the 'would you sack him today?' thread which is ridiculous to discuss 2 games into the season after finishing 3rd.
I don't see it either. I mean Ole has good intentions for sure, and I think we could be moderately successfull with him in charge, assuming the rest of the club was ticking along in perfectly. Since that's very far from being the case, he seems completely inadequate.
The more interesting (or perhaps gloomy question) is, who on earth could bring us any measure of top level success in these working conditions? And who would want to bother anymore? Even if we brought in someone like Nagelsmann - which won't happen, since he has much better options, and seems to smart to drink from such a poisoned chalice - how long until he throws in the towel like all the rest of them?
This fecking club, man
But yet we think new RW, new CB and new LB can fix it. Let’s just not do nothing and watch us rotate around a wheel like a rabbit.
If you are happy to swap a Dan James for a Jadon Sancho don’t ever question whats The point of swapping and Ole Gunnar Solksjaer for a Nagelsmann. It’s the same thing.
I don’t want him to be sacked today that would be stupid its too bloody late now. I just havent changed my vote since last year and don’t wont to change it back to support him because I don’t think he’s anywhere near good enough.
Brighton and Palace played much better than us so far this season and they have much less brilliant players than us. That does not mean we should get Roy or Potter. This is Manchester United and we should always aim for much higher. None of these Ole in people ever give a good enough reason why he should not be replaced with someone better. All they moan is about Jose and LVG failing. Yes they have failed and so do we keep on letting everyone else fail at United? At least Jose won the EL in his first full season and the League Cup and LVG won the FA Cup in his second season. Ole has won nothing in his first season so lets see if he wins anything this season and if not sack him.
At least Jose and LVG had won somethings in their managerial career and hence had the track record of winning trophies. Ole had nothing. I would say the same thing if Giggs was given the position and we are in this position. I also do not think Poch is the man either.
At least Jose and LVG had won somethings in their managerial career and hence had the track record of winning trophies. Ole had nothing. I would say the same thing if Giggs was given the position and we are in this position. I also do not think Poch is the man either.
To be honest, Ole is the best manager we have after SAF retired. Moyes, LVG and Jose were much worse and their tactics were from stone age that make it impossible to watch staying awake.
Having said that, Ole management is clearly not what we need to bring man utd back to the pinnacle of English football let alone Europe. The style of play, tactics and in game management are totally lacking at times.
To compete at the very top we need to get all these right down to the details. In short, we need someone who can punch above their weights and hopefully also play modern high pressing attacking football to bring the joy back to a club with history like man utd.
I think this will be Ole last season in charge after he stabilises the ship. After that, hope we get the right manager in to steer the club to compete at the very top. Hope someone like Nagelsman can come in. This is the man closest to Kloop and Pep level and he is only 33.
Having said that, Ole management is clearly not what we need to bring man utd back to the pinnacle of English football let alone Europe. The style of play, tactics and in game management are totally lacking at times.
To compete at the very top we need to get all these right down to the details. In short, we need someone who can punch above their weights and hopefully also play modern high pressing attacking football to bring the joy back to a club with history like man utd.
I think this will be Ole last season in charge after he stabilises the ship. After that, hope we get the right manager in to steer the club to compete at the very top. Hope someone like Nagelsman can come in. This is the man closest to Kloop and Pep level and he is only 33.
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I have no issues with that so long as the club decides that in advance and in private and confidentially. But that means also getting players Nagelsmann wants in the summer so the talks would have to be done early too.
I still think if he gets a top class coach and if he listens to him we can be much better.
After Pogba signs his new contract this season, Ole will be offered a new 4 year deal in the spring that will bring his salary to £12m as the third best manager in the league.
All aboard the hype train!
All aboard the hype train!
Nailed it.
I dont think Ole will ever win us a major title, who would with the Glazers and their flunkies effectively sabotaging the rebuild everytime we qualify for the CL?
Right now the situation is not bad to warrant considering a sacking. The only circumstance I would consider sacking Ole anytime soon is if a clear managerial great is suddenly available but then the only great managers in the game today are both at our rivals so it's out of the question.
Right now the situation is not bad to warrant considering a sacking. The only circumstance I would consider sacking Ole anytime soon is if a clear managerial great is suddenly available but then the only great managers in the game today are both at our rivals so it's out of the question.
How can anyone think this is any better than our previous managers? Last season consisted of our worst ever PL start. We have somehow started this season worse. Last season, we beat Chelsea 4-0 and then drew with Wolves. This season, we got battered by Crystal Palace and Brighton, losing one and lucking out on the other.
Are you happy with being dominated by Brighton and Crystal Palace? Are you happy with us being purely a counter-attacking side? People have lowered their expectations to levels I didn't think possible just to protect Solskjaer. Insane.
Really, we should have lost yesterday by 4 or 5 goals; the same as the Crystal Palace game.
If this was a normal season I would agree with you - but the fact is, we played our last game august 16th - before starting again 34 days later. Players went on 2-3 weeks vacation and had between 2-3 weeks to get match fitness back.
Brighton played their last game july 26th. Went on vacation - came back 3 weeks later and had almost 1 month to get into match-fitness.
We aren't match-fit - that's why teams usually play training matches during the summer. We will get better - but we are 2-3 matches behind most of the other teams. So to judge us on the first 3-4 games will be stupid.
Here we go, we have another excuse - not normal season. Ole is the luckiest manager on planed Earth, unfortunately it doesn’t make him good.
Hes just highlighting the insane double standard here. Ole gets judged by a game-to-game basis and any positives or developments gets thrown right out the window. For some perspective, since Feb .1 we have 10W, 5D, 1L in the league. Every single fecking time we lose or play badly, people come here and lose their fecking minds. If a player has a bad game its plain to see because we can observe it, for a manager/coach its not that obvious because we have no fecking idea what they have done or not done in preparations to the game. Even then, if a player delivers a stinker of a performance his history will usually provide some context to the discussion and reactions to it.
Take Rashford as an example, hes been pretty shite ever since he returned from injury and stuck out like a sore thumb in a post restart team that was otherwise flying. People are happy to point out he had a bad game, but everyone knows how good he can be when in form so he gets a pass. Sure, there might be a few loons who seriously argues he then should be sold or put into the reserves, but they are mostly written off as knee jerk reactions. Thats the problem. Every time we play badly, context gets completely thrown out the window and the same old criticism pops up again and it makes no fecking sense. So we had two stinkers at the start of this season, that means we are badly coached and Ole should be sacked. Right. So when we were putting team after team to the sword in June/July we were fantastically coached? Is that how it works?
One thing we can observe is when a manager makes obvious blunders with his team selection and subs. LvG did it with a Rooney in sharp decline because "the Captain always plays" and it was one of the worst cases of square pegs in round holes we have seen here. Then you had Jose who went out of his way to alienate players like Martial while constantly playing Lukaku even when he was complete dogshit. Not saying Ole never has made blunders, but for the most part his team selection has been fine and we usually put out our "best" team. A bit late with the subs at times, but its not like hes willfully putting bad players out there if he has better options on the bench
So imagine this scenario: Ole got to spend north of 200 million this window, and is 3-0 down to a newly promoted side. This thread would descend into utter madness if that happened. I dont give a toss about what Chelsea fans think about Lampard, but wanting him sacked now would be a complete knee jerk
On the positive side, he is firstly a very positive manager, he has also guided us to our best finish since Fergusons retirement bar the Mourinho season, arguably in a tougher league than that season, he over achieved last year. Also the first manager to see the obvious that Martial is a striker and RAshford isnt. He also knows the club and wants to do things the right way, investing in youth, blooding younger English players, playing attacking football and having the right spirit.
On the negative side.....he isnt Ferguson, the second half of his first season in charge was diabolical, I am not convinced he has the nouse and expertise to envoke that spirit as a manager. Ferguson was loyal to players and so it seems is Solkjear, but to too many. Is it the board or manager the reason we have so much deadwood still here? I think an element of both but the notion he is ruthless when he ousted Lukaku etc is rubbish, should have been twice as many ousted, Mata and Jones obvious examples of players way past there best and not good enough any longer. Also his team selections concern me, playing TFM, sticking with Lindelof.
Is a lot more for both sides of the argument too but these are main points. Would I sack Ole.....no, he has done enough in his time here to warrant more time.....do I think he will succeed though.....sorry, but no....though with our apparent failings in dealing with transfers in and out, is difficult for any manager I feel here. Personally, missing out on Klopp when Ferguson retired was a major mistake at the time I thought....correctly. Not a lazy comparison as also German.....Nagelsmann for me is THE manager we should target when the timing is right
On the negative side.....he isnt Ferguson, the second half of his first season in charge was diabolical, I am not convinced he has the nouse and expertise to envoke that spirit as a manager. Ferguson was loyal to players and so it seems is Solkjear, but to too many. Is it the board or manager the reason we have so much deadwood still here? I think an element of both but the notion he is ruthless when he ousted Lukaku etc is rubbish, should have been twice as many ousted, Mata and Jones obvious examples of players way past there best and not good enough any longer. Also his team selections concern me, playing TFM, sticking with Lindelof.
Is a lot more for both sides of the argument too but these are main points. Would I sack Ole.....no, he has done enough in his time here to warrant more time.....do I think he will succeed though.....sorry, but no....though with our apparent failings in dealing with transfers in and out, is difficult for any manager I feel here. Personally, missing out on Klopp when Ferguson retired was a major mistake at the time I thought....correctly. Not a lazy comparison as also German.....Nagelsmann for me is THE manager we should target when the timing is right
I think the issue is we are way behind the top 2 & no re enforcement's means others are improving.
All this youth stuff is great but sorry football us about the now. Klopp showed progression ( got lucky with the Coutiinho sale) both in style & success.
Only Arsenal have a rookie mgr but hey Pep no2 & a flair player. We have OGS with Carrick rookie as a coach underpinned by youth & buy British philosophy. We are the next Milan not RM. Nothing is balanced.
We have let our greatest rivals in the back door from the dead. If that does not make angry or sick then u don't love you club enough.
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That’s the thing I also would like to understand. I would have been happy with Ole if there were some signs that the squad is progressing. But it isn’t. Except some Martial-Rashford and Rashford-Shaw combos at the end of last season, it still looks like a bunch of strangers.
There was a time when people wanted Marco Rose, Marco Silva or Jardim as the next United manager. It's far more likely these mangers get lucky than it is that they're elite.
The pressing is the thing that totally pisses me off though. We cannot press at all, but every team can press us like Pep’s Barca. Something just doesn’t add up. Do we even do trainings on the first place.
While I agree that no manager can fix this club under this regime, I would also argue that Ole would be a failure under any regime. Like the Glazers and Ed who are bad owners/CEO, Ole is a bad manager/coach.
United and Chelsea have spent the same money since Ole came here.
Me too, have the same feeling.
I know this is not the point you are emphasizing but this is bs imo. Manager/coaches will have big impact on the style of game. Brighton were kick it long team, one manager changed everything. Now they play good football. Likewise Spurs were proactive team under Poch, with insane workrate, now they are defensive team with low work rate.
Good or bad, Ole has implemented his style too, not completely. He said many times that he wants his team to play direct football, always looking for forward passes than sideways passes and we play in that style which is frustrating to watch when we lose possession too many times. But that's what Ole wants from his team. Don't think he wants his team to press for example like Southampton but he wants his team to press, so it's sort of half hearted, bits and pieces of various styles. So he has implemented his style. Is that good enough? In my honest opinion, he has done good job but I don't think he is good enough to win the big titles.
Manager who wants to play proactive football and can implement pressing as a team will improve this team.
Funny, we said the same things about Ole outers from February last season.
(I supported giving Ole more time before then, but could understand why others doubted.)
Our performance vs Brighton was really unacceptable.
We showed a complete inability to handle their press and press them.
It was really worrying.
We showed a complete inability to handle their press and press them.
It was really worrying.
Exactly, I absolutely do not understand the though process behind "no manager can fix it" stuff. Why do we even bother hiring a manager then? Just let Ed pick starting XI and we are done. Some people here severely underrate the manager's role and how much effect it has on the team. We have a solid team IMO that surely should be performing better than we are. Us having 1 manager out of his depth, 2 dinosaurs and another one that let's be honest, shouldn't be managing this team has blinded some people and they started thinking that no manager could do any better which is just not true.
The overriding view among fans of rival clubs is that Ole is not remotely close to being up to the club. Some Liverpool fans have said they are worried Woodward will see sense and appoint Poch. I would love nothing more than Ole to come good and make them eat their words. Will that happen though?
I feel like out of any club, we as United fans should know more than anyone out there just how much a manager can elevate a team through our very own Fergie.
It seems like this has been lost entirely lately for some on here.
This excuse will soon fade when we still play the same football in 2 weeks. But I am sure Ole's supporters club will find another excuse.
Ole isn't a title caliber manager. He's a top 4/Europa League level manager.
He's not clueless like some say. He's also not the 2nd coming of Klopp like some hope he will be.
Yeah, more or less every team is mirror image of manager's philosophy.
You see team play and can point out that's Pep's team. Likewise with Klopp's, Conte's, even Jose's. Biggest example from last season is Brighton, from long ball team to keep the ball team.
Managers implement their style, completely or however much they can, is that style good enough to win trophies? That's the biggest challenge.
For example, we played countless sideways passes under Van Gaal, played long passes to Lukaku under Jose, now quick passes on the ground and more risky passes under Ole. We have 3 different styles of play, which means managers have/had implemented their philosophy.
Exactly, if there is anyone in the world who would know that, it is a united fan that know how much a difference a great manager is.
I would understand this if other teams had a proper preseason, but they didn't. At most, they played two friendlies. Man City didn't even have a friendly and they looked much better and much fitter (not peak, obviously) than us in their first game.
I don't buy the excuse because of that. We had a month off from our last game, which is plenty of rest. We then played one friendly. Alright, in the first game we were behind, but we didn't look any better in the second game against Brighton.
Brighton had 8 extra days and played two friendlies, but they were fully prepared and pretty fit for their first PL game against Chelsea. Chelsea was their equivalent game, yet they looked much fitter in that match.
Admittedly, some of our players did go on internationals, but surely this would help with match fitness, not detriment it.
So you dont think Brighton playing 20 matches less last season (excluding internationals) and getting more rest until the new season started could have played a part in us looking more sluggish ?
When you put it like that, it's quite damning for the fanbase.
I strongly disagree with you. Man City looked shit and very tired. They scraped a win with twice the squad we have. Real Madrid have looked shit. Inter have looked shit. Dortmund have looked shit. Chelsea have looked shit. Only team I have seen looking good is Bayern. And Everton. This is a very strange season, and you see our players struggling. But that is on the manager? Seriously? You want him out after two games? Just wow! Knee jerk and short sight at its finest
I've been thinking this too. Towards the end of the season when he just got given the job permanently he was talking about this a lot. Some of the players look like they can barely move in the three matches we've played so far.
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