I am amazed how some fans lost all objectivity regarding Solskjaer. I understand that we fans are subjective. And we all have our favourites who we watch through different pair of glasses than other people do. It is normal for a football fan. But being blind is different thing. And to see in Solskjaer a manager who is doing excellent job and especially, to see in him a manager who can win titles....well, that is delusion.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Ha ha, this is so true.
now, I am not going to read this entire thread BUT I don’t think in what I’ve seen in here so far that anyone expects a title charge from Ole.
Now or in the near future
Frustrating to see city will sign another two 50m defenders this summer while old needs to go because he spent 15m on Dan james who probably isn't our long term right winger
What you don't seem to realize is that it's not the one game in 8 months that we lost, rather than a number of reasons that Ole is not cut for this job. And all of these have to do with his coaching ability.
His fans will claim about the mess he inherited and that he did his best job offloading deadwood, the great spirit within the team, thin squad, he knows and feels the club etc.
But his management, his tactics, subs, attacking patterns, automations and for me personally his transfers have not been up to the standards we should aspire. And everybody can see that in the big games the tactics are, park the bus and catch them on the break (which is fine by me no complaints whatsoever) but when we play "smaller" teams and we should totally dominate them, our attacking play is based around individual brilliance.
If Pogba or Bruno or both have an off day we can't create any scoring opportunities.
As another poster wrote we haven't seen Greenwood score from an attacking set play.
And all that is down to the manager. There should be patterns of attacking play that players should turn to when they don't feel like it. Some may argue about needing better players. But give me a break I can't compare the quality of Pogba to that of Jordan freaking Henderson, Fabinho or Wijnaldum
what goals are you expecting Greenwood to score from attacking set play?? What even is a set play? Corner?? Freekicks???
I understand about your point comparing Henderson et al to Pogba but do you really blame Ole for how shite Pogba has been?? Pogba isn’t good enough to make a difference in our team and doesn’t have the mental attributes to ‘carry’ the team like I think he should
You should read a thread i guess
well, if you think I’m going to read 600+ pages, you’re as deluded as anyone who might have said Ole will challenge or win a title for United. It’s not going to happen.
I see him as a man who will Steady what was a a very unstable ship. I think he is doing that job reasonably well and deserves the time to at least attempt to continue with the squad.
judge him at the right time, not 1 week into a new season
What does that mean "steady a ship"? That is job for caretaker and he indeed did very good job there. But if our goal is title challenge next year and even in two years, then you hire manager who can do it. You don't give 250 mil and more to someone to steady the ship. You give it to manager who will build a team for himself. So, to sum up all that 600 pages (because i was involved from page one
); problem is that Solskjaer is not good enough coach to fight for title. Not now not ever. Even if you give him world best 11 he would not win title with them. Because he doesn't have that qualityIt doesn’t take 3 seasons to steady a ship. His job is done.
What does that mean "steady a ship"? That is job for caretaker and he indeed did very good job there. But if our goal is title challenge next year and even in two years, then you hire manager who can do it. You don't give 250 mil and more to someone to steady the ship. You give it to manager who will build a team for himself. So, to sum up all that 600 pages (because i was involved from page one
Steadying the ship was what he was brought in to do initially and did it well. He has earned the right to attempt to make the next step.
People really need to be realistic with what we should expect as fans.
With or without Ole, we are not challenging for the title in the next two years. It will categorically not happen whether we keep or sack Ole.
we are past the steadying of the ship phase so don’t focus on that comment by me. I feel Ole is trying to build his own team but is somewhat hindered. What the hindrance is at the moment is unknown but our squad is top 3 at the absolute best.
he took a 6th place team to 3rd so let’s see what he does with a top 3 side this year.
im going regret those specific words, aren’t I?
Na it’s a balanced thread someone will pop up to defend your quote and give it a positive spin.
I don’t think my posts need a positive spin put on them. They are what they are.
We’ve been in the place of replacing manager after manager.
The key to me was whether Ole should have got the permanent job in the first place, which I’ve always questioned BUT he did and now I think we support him.
he’s taken us forward since joining, and yes he might have taken us as far as he can but he definitely deserves to be allowed the chance to make the next step, and yes, if He fails, he will rightly face criticism and lose his job
This goes for everything though. There’s also a real question whether spending £30m on Lindelof and spending £80m on Maguire should have been the right deals in the first place. But........ that doesn’t stop us wanting yet another CB does it.
If the manager needs replacing he needs replacing. This is football not a scripted Romcom.
but I don’t believe he NEEDS replacing. if you replace him, you’re ultimately sacking him for being successful, which last season was. It’d be wrong.
If anyone doesn’t see last season as a success, they’re deluded
I also don’t think the transfer market is a fair comparison of keeping or getting rid of a manager.
He hasn’t won a title. He is not successful!! He’s only successful if you are happy to live at the standards of Arsenal and this is probably where the problem lies. Also, to go back to the good old Jose days. Would you have sacked him before his third season? So basically right after he finished his second.
The transfer market isn’t but the over reliance on transfers to look good is.
No, that's your opinion, which cant be taken seriously because it comes preloaded with an agenda
success is relative.
He’s relatively successful.
im not happy to be an Arsenal but because of the way we’ve been run in the past 7 years, it’s where we are at so finishing 2nd is, unfortunately, a success.
I would not have sacked Jose for finishing 2nd. This current climate feels a lot like the end of Jose’s second season. We needed to continue building and we didn’t.
Jose over-achieved IMO and I think Ole is in the same boat (or the ship that he steadied ;-)
We needed a good, swift transfer window to continue building
Is it? First you need to be able to count. He is just one game into his second season. When he came in, he just got on with it. And regarding your comment on red cafe. I’m Not coming on here often. Mostly because of so called fans as your self. Rather keep my football interest on somewhat higher level.. I do not have a difficult time recognising why our squad isn’t good enough, or why Bruno or Pogba fail to show energy at this time. They where just examples btw..
It is and don’t get my wrong he said as successful (position wise) last season. However you have to embrace truth if you want to move forward. We didn’t with Jose and we are continuing to do the same thing with Ole. Like our running of transfers are inability to replace managers timely and correctly is poor. It’s a shame we don’t have the Structure of a Southampton. Ole would have been gone ages ago.
When would you have sacked him, out of interest?
Last summer?
january?
id agree with both of them.
Probably, although definitely last summer.
I just don’t think now is right or fair.
definitely not now as in today and I’d have been disappointed if he was gone this summer at all
I fear we’ll revisit this thread and you’ll be able to say ‘I told you so’. How soon is the million dollar question.
I just think we should allow him to build on what he has done already.
However, it doesn’t look like he’ll be allowed to build
I think the younger fans need to realise he’s working with both hands and one leg tied behind his back because of our shitehole board and owners. Maybe he isn’t the right manager but changing manager will not service ou long term problems. If any of the post 92 fans had gone through what the rest of us went through circa 86-91 they would realise that success takes time to build. We need to see this period of time through
Me I would have sacked him after the Cardiff game and I said so at the time. That’s because it was obviously a mistake to hire him so early and it was still ample time to stick to the bloody good plan they sold us back in November after Jose was sacked. But I understand we aren’t a well run club and I didn’t expect them to be so bold.
But I like to think I’m not totally ignorant In my beliefs and I can applaud him for helping restructure the atmosphere that Jose helped create which resulted in quotes we hear from Alexis coming out recently.
What I don’t give him credit for is any improvement on playing style or footballing identity on the field. It’s still atrocious.
Football doesn't work like that anymore. In the past you had time to put aside results for few seasons. Today you don't. Big clubs don't at least.
With lack of results you lose reputation. Without reputation you lose money. Without money you lose best players. Without money and good players in squad you can't buy new best players. Because best players choose clubs who can pay them and "promise" them titles. And then you become Arsenal or Everton. Today when you fall down, it is hard to get up.
I think it’s silly to assume it’s the younger fans you are talking to when the majority of the younger fans are living through there elders acting like they experienced 86-91 and know how this works. Why is the board f’d but your so confident that the only thing they did right was hire a competent manger which they’ve failed at 3 times already.
How old are you?
Probably older than you.
Thanks for your reply. And its certainly not without some merit. Klopp is a great manager, more advanced than OGS right now, and I would love to have him leading our club. But we don't have him, and never will, so measuring up to his greatness is a moot point.
However there are a numbers of areas where I think you have vastly exaggerated his achievements.
Firstly, Klopp joined Liverpool in late 2015, after being courted, on a full contract, fully briefed on his exact task. Ole got a random call out of the blue in mid 2018, had only 48 hours to get to Manchester and was told he was appointed 'just for a few months and to only improve team and fan morale'. He only really had time to plan for his permanent job since May 2018. Klopp is now into his 5th year in the job whereas Ole has completed 1.5 seasons. So Klopp has had 3 more years to experiment, coach and mould his team according to his ideas.
Secondly, Klopp has brought in more than 25 first team squad level players into Liverpool at the cost of around £600m. He was also allowed to release over 30 'deadwood' first team squad level players. Some of those were players he bought, that didn't work out, and he was allowed to try again. Klopp didn't come up with his record breaking 1st XI at his first attempt, it took 4 years of trial and error. He has been allowed to totally change the entire squad so it fits his exact purposes, and credit to him, has produced an amazing team.
Thirdly, I really disagree with your assessment of the players Klopp signed. SAF thought Henderson was talented and scouted him, Milner is renowned world class water carrier, Robertson was very highly rated, Salah was loved at Roma, VVD and Alyson had many elite admirers, Redcafe had a lengthy discussion on Mane long before he joined. Sure, none of Klopp's signings were Galatico level like Varane, KdB or Kane, but all were known as good footballers and on the up. Klopp hasn't come close to 'doing a Leicester', which is what you are implying.
OGS inherited a completely disjointed and unbalanced squad. We still dont know the end result of this window but so far he has been allowed to bring in 4 or 5 players and managed to remove 7. In doing so, he has created a first XI that won the most points post lockdown, is capable of holding its own against all top 6 teams and is already one of the most prolific attacking units in world football. His managerial reputation was enough to attract players like Bruno, Maguire and hopefully Sancho to the club, and the vast majority of fans are very happy with his progress so far. our fans also recognise that our squad players are not good enough to rotate with the 1st XI and needs substantial overhaul.
Here's the thing: we all know all of this. All of it. But because some fans dislike Ole (I don't know why), they deliberately ignore it all, and make outlandish demands like Ole win the title now because ... well I'm really not sure why. Likewise OleOUT folk cant ever produce any quantitative facts that he has underperformed and so use unmeasurable and pretentious concepts like 'pattern of play' and blah blah as the rod to criticise him with.
In summary, Klopp is indeed a great manager but it has taken him plenty of cash, patience, trial and error to get to where he has. In comparative terms, Ole is ahead of where Klopp was after 1.5 seasons, and yet started from a more difficult place. But OleOUT wont ever admit his, for reasons they only know and instead indulge in moronic meltdowns every time he loses creating a toxic atmosphere. I mean it's now a meme that this thread gets bounced within seconds of Ole's team losing. I think that's a shame for them because they are missing out on alot of excitement and joy that fans who passionately support Ole are enjoying.
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Oh come on. He has spent 270m on players since hes arrived that will be 400m if we sign Sancho, broke the world record for a defender already had one of the worlds best midfielders on top of world-class talent with the likes of Greenwood, hands and one leg tied behind his back.. people saying he shouldn't be expected to make top 4 if he don't get anymore transfers with a squad like that.. come on man, really?
Pity, that.
Never be afraid to age. It brings wisdom and life experience.
Worse is they all now think they are coaching experts because they won the league themselves on football manager. This can be the only reason for this insanity.
Missed my point, completely.
Yeah and he’s delivered excellent returns on that investment. No complaints from vast majority of fans.
No I just overlooked it.
But anyway... I joined in 2004. So let’s say if I’m the age of my joined date I’m 15. Let’s say I learnt to spell and write at 5. I’m 20. So at minimum I’m 20 what’s your point about my age?
That’s a bit sad, and tragic. Seriously, maybe you should consider reaching out for some help, mate (not insulting the poster, but encouraging him to seek some mental health advice from professionals). Whatever is going with your posts, it’s all over the place, this isn’t normal.
Could you have at least made your post funny? I don’t know if you’re trying to tease me or actually provide me with some help. If so just PM a number if you’re that concerned.
I’d call the number, mate.
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