Christ, I didn't see they beat Athletico in the quarters in the CL. He's only 33 as well. He's just a bit younger than me.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Christ, I didn't see they beat Athletico in the quarters in the CL. He's only 33 as well. He's just a bit younger than me.
Is this your response to everything you don’t agree with? Creating good culture for discussion.. on an anonymous message board.
Given the manpower we have, our amount of goals scored is not very impressive. I too share the same sentiment, I see individual skill more than collective power. Watching Man Utd compared to Liverpool, City, even Spurs under Poch, and all the other powerhouses, there is a huge gulf in attacking patterns. Great players score many goals themselves because they are much better than the other team on average, if a great manager joins the force they score 85+ goals in the league and get more points. What was it this year? 65 something? Not very good over 38 games with these players.
To be fair we had Rashford, Martial and Pogba out for a while. And Bruno for Lindgaard made a world of difference funnily enough.
I’m not a big fan of Ole as a coach but he had a good season & deserves to be backed. 3rd, FA cup semi, Europa semi (at worst) is really a decent season when you consider how we looked in August 2019.
Some of the Ole Out lot on twitter seem to have a personal hatred of him & would rather be proven right than see the club do well. Not real fans them. That “Rants N Bants” fella on twitter is the worst for it. United fan who hates Ole & Bruno, amongst many others, surely not a real fan. Probably uses the club for clicks & attention.
Some of the Ole Out lot on twitter seem to have a personal hatred of him & would rather be proven right than see the club do well. Not real fans them. That “Rants N Bants” fella on twitter is the worst for it. United fan who hates Ole & Bruno, amongst many others, surely not a real fan. Probably uses the club for clicks & attention.
True but most of the improvement we saw was due to Ole s management of Martial and Rashford and the signing of Fernandes in the middle of the season.
Also you must consider that apart Bruno being here only since last week of January, the number of games Pogba and Rashford lost due injury.
So saying 38 games with these players is not entirely correct.
Also if you want to compare with Poch and Klopp, compare with their first full season, not with their best one
We keep talking about individual brilliance. Is it a coincidence that the players who weren't already very good struggled the most?
Add to that the fact that he doesn't use the backups that much because they always under-perform, it lends a lot of credence to the thought. Of course since Ole can't get a tune out of them people will say they are all Championship players, but I don't fully agree with that.
Bruno played Matchday 25 onwards. In that time we score 30 goals in 14 games which was the 2nd highest in the league, averaging 2.1 goals per game. There's nothing wrong with our attacking play, Ole allows our players to have freedom in the final third, this means our strikers have the confidence to take the ball on and take shots on rather than attempting to pass the ball into the net. The problem pre Bruno was that we were relying on Lingard/Pereira to deliver the ball to our forwards and they simply didn't have the quality to do it. Bruno with 7 assists this season in the league, Pereira with 3 and Lingard with 0.
Club | GF - Matchday 24 | GF - Matchday 38 | Diff | Goals Per Game |
|---|---|---|---|---|
Manchester City | 65 | 102 | 37 | 2.6 |
Manchester United | 36 | 66 | 30 | 2.1 |
Liverpool | 56 | 85 | 29 | 2.1 |
Chelsea | 41 | 69 | 28 | 2.0 |
Arsenal | 32 | 56 | 24 | 1.7 |
Tottenham Hotspur | 38 | 61 | 23 | 1.6 |
West Ham United | 27 | 49 | 22 | 1.6 |
Southampton | 31 | 51 | 20 | 1.4 |
Bournemouth | 23 | 40 | 17 | 1.2 |
Wolverhampton Wanderers | 35 | 51 | 16 | 1.1 |
Everton | 28 | 44 | 16 | 1.1 |
Leicester City | 52 | 67 | 15 | 1.1 |
Burnley | 28 | 43 | 15 | 1.1 |
Watford | 21 | 36 | 15 | 1.1 |
Sheffield United | 25 | 39 | 14 | 1.0 |
Newcastle United | 24 | 38 | 14 | 1.0 |
Brighton and Hove Albion | 27 | 39 | 12 | 0.9 |
Aston Villa | 31 | 41 | 10 | 0.7 |
Crystal Palace | 22 | 31 | 9 | 0.6 |
Norwich City | 24 | 26 | 2 | 0.1 |
Shoutout to Norwich who got a very impressive 2 goals in the remaining 14 fixtures (wtf).
yeah but do you remember how Mourinho handled Rashford, Martial and Pogba? Mou had no faith in Rashford and Martial, while Ole has backed them to cement their place upfront.
Yeah we have improved with Bruno, but it is mainly individual brilliance behind it. The main plan we have had is play on the counter which we do well as a team.
We will see if it works next season. I think we need to add more collective elements to our play if we want to fight near the top.
That's true. Also recognizing their best positions as well was a very good move. Huge credit to Ole for those moves.
If he brings in a coach which can organize us so that we don't have that individual brilliance problem, he'd be the perfect manager for us.
You literally havent a clue what you are saying.
As poster said all Cliché nonsense
Same how people like you avoid to compare Poch in Saints vs Ole's debacle in Cardiff. Not to mention how you and others avoid the fact that Ole inherited much better squad in United than Poch in Spurs. On top of that Ole spent around 250 mil in his first year already here. Poch spent 50 in his first year.Pochettino - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Ole - 1, 2, 3
Poch has more letters in his name so he is the better manager, dont you people not know this
Funny how RedSky has posted some nice looking tables with very relevant data and none of the "you know who" crowd have touched it with a barge pole, its as if they cant see the data, tells everyone all we need to know regards their agenda
Then look at Spurs team 2014 and look our team when Ole became a manager.
Do you actually believe that? We have scored goals on the counter yes, but it's not our main plan. We don't sit back and absorb pressure and then spring out, we have been laying siege to opponents goals for a number of games since Bruno joined. What is clear is that our strikers have got more confidence in the penalty box and are allowed to take on shots that other managers may not have sanctioned...
Here's Whoscoreds break down of goal types. We've only scored 6 counter attack goals, i'd have thought if that was our Plan A we'd have more goals right?
| Club | Open Play | Counter Attack | Set Piece | Penalty | Own Goal |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Liverpool | 51 | 10 | 17 | 5 | 2 |
| Leicester | 44 | 9 | 7 | 5 | 2 |
| Tottenham | 37 | 8 | 8 | 3 | 5 |
| Chelsea | 44 | 7 | 11 | 7 | 0 |
| Manchester United | 41 | 6 | 8 | 10 | 1 |
| Wolverhampton Wanderers | 29 | 5 | 11 | 4 | 2 |
| Manchester City | 73 | 4 | 17 | 6 | 2 |
| West Ham | 28 | 3 | 14 | 4 | 0 |
| Everton | 27 | 3 | 11 | 1 | 2 |
| Sheffield United | 26 | 3 | 6 | 1 | 3 |
| Watford | 21 | 3 | 4 | 7 | 1 |
| Arsenal | 39 | 2 | 12 | 3 | 0 |
| Southampton | 36 | 2 | 11 | 2 | 0 |
| Burnley | 23 | 2 | 13 | 3 | 2 |
| Brighton | 20 | 2 | 12 | 1 | 4 |
| Bournemouth | 17 | 2 | 15 | 4 | 2 |
| Aston Villa | 23 | 1 | 15 | 1 | 1 |
| Newcastle United | 23 | 1 | 14 | 0 | 0 |
| Crystal Palace | 18 | 1 | 7 | 3 | 2 |
| Norwich | 20 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 1 |
This is one of those ridiculous arguments I'll never get. The one about individual brilliance.
Bruno was the catalyst and has been among our best players this season, but you are just underplaying the importance of rest of the side. We beat Chelsea twice, City, Spurs, drew with Pool without Bruno!
And by your logic, one can say Klopp is reliant on individual brilliance as they weren't going anywhere in attack till they got in Salah, or you can say he relies on VVD a bit too much. Remove Aguero or KdB from City's side and they don't look half as good. Poch is shit as he was relying on Kane. Zidane hasn't been great in CL without Ronaldo.
Bruno has worked because we've always had a good front line, but these players lacked service, lacked a player who can consistently pick out his passes but at the same time is a threat on his own going forward.
Most teams do not allow us to counter by defending deep and that is why we struggled for most of the season. With Bruno we got more individual brilliance to open teams up, but we are still not great at dominating teams by attacking them as a unit. We can do it vs weaker sides by individual skills, but against stronger teams we go back to counter attacking football.
There are of course some patterns to our attack, but not enough in my view.
You do know that Cardiff was basically relegated already when Ole joined them? Yeah he didn't manage to turn it around to save em, he's no Big Sam, but that's not the manager we want is it?
If anything it was Tan who made the biggest mistake by bringing in the wrong manager for his club. He probably saw what Ole built at Molde and said he'd get time to build similar stability at Cardiff.
Cardiff is a Championship level club. Most clubs that go up to PL will go down again the next season. It's not like it was an unexpected trainwreck. But yes it kept looking bad back in the Championship, replacing Ole was probably the smart move, just wasn't a good fit for club and manager.
It's not like there were miracles performed at Southampton, he did a decent job so he got the chance and time to do the same at a bigger club.
Now Ole is given time to do what he did at Molde with United. Yes the levels and pressure are much higher, but the core values are the same.
I've worked at small and big companies, the essence is the same. If anything the small companies are often more professional with more hustle.
It’s my response to people talking shit yes, and as yet I’ve heard very little to the contrary.
You talk about our manpower as if we have Messi, Ronaldo, and Neymar up front. As it were, it’s Rashford, Martial, and Greenwood. Hardly an all star cast until recent months. They’ve been in quite the prolific form since the introduction of Bruno, although you’ve clearly ignored that. I suppose they just turned themselves into individual world beaters overnight though with no coaching or instruction whatsoever. Or better yet, perhaps Bruno is teaching them how to play.
Our attacking plays are there, just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean they don’t exist. There are plenty of tactical analyses of our play by people who actually know what they’re talking about. Maybe you should give them a watch before throwing ambiguous comments on here.
There’s a lot more to football and tactics than “what Liverpool do”.
We did not struggle most of the season. We struggled for the first 24 games and for me it was demonstrated with the below table:
Player | Mins | Goals | Assists |
|---|---|---|---|
Pereira | 1371 | 1 | 3 |
Lingard | 889 | 0 | 0 |
Mata | 623 | 0 | 2 |
Pogba | 521 | 0 | 2 |
We had no creativity or goals from midfield as soon as Pogba was injured. It resulted with us experimentating hoping that Pereira would eventually come good and he simply failed to live up to expectations. There's a reason why these players got frozen out once Bruno joined, none of them were capable at this level.
That's the story of our season, Pogba injured, our attack stutters, Bruno joins, our attack sparkles.
Ontop of this, we had Rashford and Martial out for spells in the first half of the season which resulted in us being very easy to defend against because our goal threat came from 1/2 sources maximum. Throw in a defense that struggled early on and leaked goals they shouldn't have and it puts even more pressure on our attackers. It's not exactly rocket science, we were starting mediocre players because we had no other options and we struggled. I'm not sure why you're making it out like it's a coaching issue, I strongly disagree with that assessment and our form in 2020 would suggest otherwise.
It's not the existence of a plan of attack that's in doubt. It's the efficiency and level of quality of it.
Every team attacks, but not every team has a very good and well drilled plan of attack.
And what insider knowledge do these people have of our plans of attack? By all means, criticise our performances if you have to. Criticise our results if you have to. But save the bullshit comments about “attacking patterns”, it gets tiresome.
How are you so sure it's bs? Some teams are definitely better drilled in buildup and attack than others, that's a fact.
Pointing out that we don't seem to be one of the better drilled teams isn't that outlandish a statement.
It is when you lack the superstars you need a great plan to use the lesser players. We didn't have that and they turned inefficient mostly.
They are not good enough for big things, but we could have been more functional at times.
Now I shall drop this for tonight and enjoy hopefully a win over Sevilla. Hope we can play well tonight.
This is a simple continuation of the Klopp and Pep obsession on this forum. Your problem is effectively that we don’t play like Liverpool, we don’t play like City. Like I said, there is more to football than that, though you wouldn’t think it reading some of the shite on here.
We have a long way to go - that is obvious. But when you see the chances we create against Seville - I laugh at people saying they don't see tons of progress.
The Midfield and Martial have been good. It’s just everyone around them
Lindelöf too.
The haters wouldn't dare look at the defensive record Sevilla has. They are a defensively solid team in La Liga and in the UL. Add Sancho in and get a RB who can make a mass without shitting himself, we'll be fine.
Also showing how big a miss Shaw is in this system. It's a perfect system for him to thrive. It's obvious we need a Matic 2.0.
Does he know he can use subs?
Should've tried changing things up sooner, but other than that I don't think there's much more he could've done. We had more than enough chances to kill the game off.
Don't think Ole deserves any criticism if we can't win tonight. I've not often seen any fans saying we will win any Silverware under Solskjaer because I think that's outside his capacity as a manager. He's laid the groundwork for us to have a stable foundation to build from.
It's not Ole's fault that we are losing today.
We were all over them and should have had another goal or 3. Their goal came out of a chance that shouldn't have been anything if Lindelöf was even semi-competent.
We were all over them and should have had another goal or 3. Their goal came out of a chance that shouldn't have been anything if Lindelöf was even semi-competent.
After the flurry of chances where it looked like Sevilla were living a charmed life, we clearly ran out of steam. Rashford and Wan Bissaka especially looked dead on their feet.
Sevilla had 3 changes made by the time they scored.
It's the 85th minute and we still haven't made any.
Because he does not trust or think that the players on the bench are better than our tired players on the pitch.
We’ve looked gassed from 70 minutes. Benefit of the doubt, 75 minutes.
Doesn’t make a sub until 86 minutes.
Sevilla have already made 3-4 subs by this stage.
His tactical management is genuinely awful.
Doesn’t make a sub until 86 minutes.
Sevilla have already made 3-4 subs by this stage.
His tactical management is genuinely awful.
Na Ole has us playing well tonight. I hope Fred keep this up since he will solve anlot of problems for us
He's really not worth persisting with. We'll flush another season down the drain.
Yeah, he's not at fault for you not scoring but he's at fault for not changing after that period of dominance when Sevilla were getting back into the game - about 5 or 10 mins before they scored.
Ole just doesn't know subs can be made before the 85th minute.
His game management is pathetic.
His game management is pathetic.
We flushed this season down the drain? How so?
Harsh, but true! We need to be ruthless here
Regardless of whether you think he's good or bad, his ingame management is massively questionable at the best of times, his subs in particular are baffling, giving them like 3 minutes to influence this game? Utterly pointless
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