True, I do see your point.
It would make more sense to be very sure of the managerial hirings in the first place and then back them very well, rather than require them to prove themselves at your club before backing them.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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It would make more sense to be very sure of the managerial hirings in the first place and then back them very well, rather than require them to prove themselves at your club before backing them.
Do you really think Fred has improved? He’s been on the same level or even worse at times than pre ole.
Rashford has maybe got marginally better but he’s always been decent.
Martial has been the biggest improvement- looks deadlier & more focused.
McTom again I think he’s always been decent since he broke through
Amen. Some people think football is an On/Off switch.
Keep. Regardless of how good or bad a summer we have this year he has to have much more expected of him. Top 3-4 minimum and a trophy.
Anything less than that and we aren't progressing.
Anything less than that and we aren't progressing.
Everything has a risk. But better is better. What’s to say Sancho won’t out perform Dan James?
I mean, it's a pretty simple comparison - Fred under Jose/Ole last season, to Fred now? McTominay under Jose/Ole, to McTominay now - you can't see the improvement?
But the risk of upsetting a clearly upwards trajectory for some abstract concept of better tactical manager, is just not worth taking the risk.
Mate do you know who Fred even is? The guy was written off last season. Everyone believed that he will go down as one of our biggest flops ever. And this season, he has clearly looked like a player for a top 6 side. Go to the thread by duffer "xxx of the season" and you'd notice most people would have said that he has been the most improved player of the season
Rashy - again. I agree, that a bit of it is natural progression, but he was doubted and called names till under Mou. He wasn't a regular for starters, and no one thought that he'd get 20 goals this season (you can look at the pre season threads which had people predict how many goals our players would score
McT- I think most people had him down as a squad player at max, someone who'd stay here for a season or two more before he moves to a lower mid table PL side. And before his injury, he was among the contenders for our POTY
So is it the 5% of the 500 people who vote him to be sacked or 5% of the entire fan base?
Because 1562 people have voted to keep him.
Also, you are the 5% that know so much, you wanted Roberto Martinez as Manutd manager to replace Jose.
Intermin manger. Don’t outdo yourself here.. it want work out well for you. Who did you want to replace Jose?
It’s not their tactics. It’s there level of coaching.
This [/THREAD]
I am quite happy with the coaching of Ole uptill now. He has brought about improvement in various players. There are some players who are beyond any coaching like Lingard, Periera, Jones, etc. I think you are really stingy in giving him credit where it's due.
Feel free to read the disparaging initial replies to the thread below I created, and then the subsequent replies from said posters holding their hands up:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/our-most-important-player-this-season-fred.449806/
I m not saying Fred is bad. I think he’s a good player for us, just don’t think Ole has improved him as such. Good player on his day, glad we have him, can still be sloppy & eratic too
He was a write-off to the point that most people forgot he even existed until this season... To say that he hasn't improved from then, is ridiculous.
Well I never saw him as a write off
Fred came from a different league and it is obvious he is going to take time to get used to the PL. He has not improved much. He was still the Fred who was at Shakhtar. Different managers get different players to work in different ways. Ole got players like Martial to work better. Doesn't mean he is among the best managers. I do not see much improvement in Scott that is outstanding. He always was at that level once he grew matured. If anyone it is Shaw that has improved beyond anyone's belief. Ole is doing what most people expect what any manager would do with this squad of players. Actually I expect a lot more from him but disappointingly he has not done so far. I expect a Manchester United manager to do a lot more than he is doing. This is not his first season anymore. He has had two transfer windows already. He has had last summer's window too.
This is exactly where I have problems with him. His basics are not good. A lot is dependent on individual players to get us out of trouble. Actually players like Lingard, Pereira and Jones also can be utilised to their maximum. You should never get players to do things they cannot do. Get them to do things they can do since you cannot get rid of them, then you have to use them to their maximum ability.
ImpressiveMe and a few others feckin did
I did have a feeling that Martial and Rashy will have a great season, but not sure if I posted it on here and if I did, not sure which thread it was
I don't think anyone here would argue that Ole is the greatest manager on the planet. I'm not sure who would be so dubbed, but anyone who's in say the top five -- including Klopp and Pep -- are not on the shopping list anytime for obvious reasons.
Ole has taken steps forward and a few steps backward, but we're on the cusp of securing a CL spot and putting ourselves in a position to add the players we need to compete for the PL and CL trophies. Ole has to grow too as a manager and I think it's fair to say that we've seen that growth in his time so far. He's pruned some of the deadwood, he's made solid acquisitions and he seems to have settled Pogba down. We need to let him have another year to take the next step, which is to make a serious run for the PL trophy and get us into the QF of the CL.
The alternative, sacking Ole, risks starting the project over and sending us backward.
Ole has taken steps forward and a few steps backward, but we're on the cusp of securing a CL spot and putting ourselves in a position to add the players we need to compete for the PL and CL trophies. Ole has to grow too as a manager and I think it's fair to say that we've seen that growth in his time so far. He's pruned some of the deadwood, he's made solid acquisitions and he seems to have settled Pogba down. We need to let him have another year to take the next step, which is to make a serious run for the PL trophy and get us into the QF of the CL.
The alternative, sacking Ole, risks starting the project over and sending us backward.
A bit off-topic but I always had a feeling Rashford would be make it even when he was getting pelters from all sides. It all clicks for a lot of strikers at 21/22. Suddenly it goes from 10ish to 20+ every season.
He gets a lot of shit for his free kicks but he'll score a lot more of them in the future too.
Just out of curiosity, when you say a lot more. Could you say what lot more do you want from him?
Jones can't be utilised to his maximum when the man can't stay fit.
Ole's put him in the few times he's been fit so I'd say he'd use him if he wasn't constantly knacked.
Pereira/Lingard have had their chance and I think they're on their way out the door but he'll probably give them some time in the Europa to put them in the shop window and hopefully they do ok.
Wow. I am sorry you are living in your delusional world. Utilised to their maximum extent meaning what, if they aren't good at basics? And Jones? He is injured permanently. Should Ole become a doctor too?
Edit: Just wanted to add upon reflection the ridiculousness of this argument again. The man is instrumental in developing from our academy up the best talent we have had since Rooney. He has helped Rashford and Martial improve to such an extent we have a legitimate claim to have best attacking three in the league. And you want Ole fired because he couldn't get the best out of Lingard!!!!
Who's top 5?
For fun let me give my thoughts without putting too much thinking
1. PEP
2. Klopp
3. Zidane
4. Simeone
5. Maybe ten haag but they were poor this season, tuchel? If he wins the CL. Poch but his final months at Spurs spoil it. Pardon if I missed someone.
Okay so relatively speaking we can obtain a top 5 manager? I would disagree too much. Probably argue it’s Klopp and Zidane top 2 now.
You dont think that's a bit unfair on Poch? We're only a year removed from this
Klopp didn't stop being highly rated after his last year at Dortmund which was similarly underwhelming
Yeah one could put him in top 5. But I would say he is slightly below Simeone for me. Like I saod the 5th spot was too open for me so yeah maybe Poch would fit in.You dont think that's a bit unfair on Poch? We're only a year removed from this
Klopp didn't stop being highly rated after his last year at Dortmund which was similarly underwhelming
If the board is planning to sack Ole for some reason then yes Poch would be obtainable.
I'm not convinced by Zidane, only because he has insane levels of talent to work with at RM. There's no way he could replicate his success at another club without the same resources.
Yes that is a fair point but still one cannot take away his achievements at Madrid. I still think as a coach/manager he is underrated.
Same can be said with Pep to be fair. If you got a good squad though they know how to get the best out of it.
They're really not. It is cool to say it, but it is far from reality.
Would anyone has swapped those matches with cannon fodder with instead playing Liverpool, City, and Chelsea instead?
Rubbish!! He’s won 3 Champions leagues in a row they got rid of Ronaldo and looked like a cluster fck. He’s comeback and won them the league blooding through youth and Rejuvenating the old guard.
What more should a Man United manager do? In my view, Ole has progressively achieved the following, in some case against expectations that had pervaded:
1. Improved the atmosphere and dressing room
2. Improved Top 6 and “big game” record
3. Improved key players - Martial, Rashford, Scott, Fred, Shaw being the most obvious examples
4. Brought in youth and built a young side end to end
5. Started ruthlessly culling deadwood as new signings and your promotions take root
6. Improved style of play
7. Now started beating the “weaker” teams consistently
8. Having better transfers
9. Improved a team struggling well adrift from the Top 4 to being on the cusp of sealing fourth in the course of a season
He’s not been perfect, but who is? What more do we want on an immediate basis? Turn water to wine? Turn Lingard into Messi? Get Andreas a brain transplant? No successful manager can accommodate incompetence
Eh? This again? Wonder why Barca didn’t just sweep every trophy every year in the latter half of the noughties or the first half of this decade. Why Zidane’s Madrid is the only club to have defended the CL. Twice. In succession. Has insane levels of talent? Have you seen the Madrid squad this season? Hazard has barely been available. The vast majority of starters this season are the same as from 2017. This same team and squad was deemed not fit for purpose by literally every manager other than him. He took over a struggling side just over a year ago and has transformed them to beat a Barca side with Messi.
The disparaging of Zidane is ridiculous. The man has seriously worked miracles.
ZZ is still relatively new to management so is still learning and finding opportunities to express his talent. Coming back to win the league without Ronaldo has certainly demonstrated new qualities.
ZZ will only ever attract elite clubs who already have quality players and additional deep resources so I doubt he’ll ever face the issue you stated.
I love Ole and hope he is able to to take us to the top, but if he was released, I think our squad would now be good enough for ZZ to thrive.
Keep but I'm still not switching my vote from sack. I feel quite strongly that polls should be a reflection or snapshot of how people felt at a particular point in time, it's why polling companies put out new polls regularly on voting intentions for example. The ability to change votes doesn't make much sense to me so I'm digging my heels in there on principle.
That's keep if we drop out of the top 4 on Sunday too btw, at least for now. That, plus a poor start next season could change my mind again but not in itself.
That's keep if we drop out of the top 4 on Sunday too btw, at least for now. That, plus a poor start next season could change my mind again but not in itself.
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