Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[romufc]

Yeah out squad depth is very poor, which means Ole had to rely on first 11 all the time. One game he rotated vs Norwich and none of the played well enough to win a regular place. This means our first 11 played too many games in last 8-9 days.

I hope we address this in summer, "we don't need Grealish" "where will sancho play" should be put to bed, our squad depth is poor, I have 0 confidence in any of them replacing our attackers.

Solskajer should have played Fred a lot more though, instead of just relying on Matic.

Agreed. Well, if fans still think we don't need them players, I am afraid they lack football knowledge. You cannot hope for players to stay fit. Even 1 injury could upset your entire front line. James, Perreira, Lingard are not even 50% of what our first 11 are.

I do think Fred should play when other teams have energy, he can get around the pitch quicker than Matic.

 

[roonster09]

So isn’t this where Ed comes into play? I mean in Spain your Ed Woodward would have spoke to Ole and kindly indicated. Maybe you make your top 4 is your priority’hint’.

I don't know and if anyone says they know what was discussed, I wouldn't believe them either.

 

[Green_Red]

Why was you wondering? Do we play high press?

I would say we have started to since February. All depending on the starting XI too.

 

[Mainoldo]

I don't know and if anyone says they know what was discussed, I wouldn't believe them either.

I didn’t ask for what you know I asked for what your thoughts were. We don’t know anything really. But we always have a lot to say.

 

[roonster09]

I didn’t ask for what you know I asked for what your thoughts were. We don’t know anything really. But we always have a lot to say.

Didn't I say my thoughts (that top 4 is much bigger priority than FA cup) ? How would I know what Woodward thoughts are?

 

[Superunknown]

I play football, however good or fit you are, if you are fatigued, you will make sloppy mistakes. I don't think AWB, Maguire are bad players, they are tired.

Because of Covid, we have to travel to games on the day, so we went from london on thursday back to Manchester with Friday as recovery, then Saturday train prepare for the game and Sunday travel again.

All this travelling, is mentally tiring for players too. Some people may think this is an excuse but I think we are underestimating how tiring playing games is on players.

Not trying to make excuses for our players or anything of the sort, but I think that this is a good point. It's not the usual structure that the players are used to and the amount of games we're playing in a short space of time was always going to lead to a dip somewhere. Several of our better players looked knackered in the last game and in the game beforehand. Fernandes, for example.

It's partly why so many where questioning here beforehand whether or not we should be resting key players for the West Ham game instead of playing them vs. Chelsea. In the end, those players didn't get much rest (if any at all) and we ended up with a bad result against Chelsea.

If this teaches Ole anything, it's that he has to "know" his squad better. There has to be players that should be jumping at the chance to come in and play in an FA Cup semi-final. It's a squad game, not a first 11 game anymore. It's hindsight, for sure, but there does need to be a bit of foresight from Ole, too. He should already be looking at his players and realising which ones look gassed. In any line of work, when you're knackered, you don't perform close to your best or optimum level. There's a level you can get away with, where you can slog it out and push through. I looked at our team yesterday and, yes the starting tactics and formation weren't great, but the important players just looked like they needed an extra couple of days of rest.

It's still a learning curve for Ole and I am behind him because he's our manager and I want him to do well. We hit a stumbling block yesterday and it would've been nice to get to the final. But, we'll see what happens against West Ham. If we lose that game and don't get a result against Leicester and don't make top 4, then he will deserve the criticism. I think that's fair. I hope that it doesn't come to that and we do get the results that we want.

 

[JohnnyKills]

I don't have an issue with him playing a semi strong team. To me it was the formation which would never work with the players he had to bring in.

Unlike Keefy above, I think changing to a back 3 threw us off our game and put us on the back foot from the off, ceding the advantage to Chelsea when is we had stuck to our natural game we could have out played them.

I think you can play three CBs and a DM when you have 2 wing backs like Evra who are capable of driving the ball forward and adding to attack justifying the defensive additions. With William's and Wan Bissaka all you create is a back 5.

None of the midfielders are then capable of driving with the ball forwards meaning Fernandes, Rashford and James are completely cut off. With no attacker capable of holding the ball up it also means on the times the ball does go forward we cant retain possession because the gap is too big for support to get up.

It seemed starting Igahlo would have helped as he could have held the ball up but I would have stuck with our normal formation and just switched Lindelof for Ighalo. Maybe matic for mctominay although mctominay and fred have both looked rusty since returning.

What to do on the right is the bigger question. We should give up on James. To be useful in a counter attacking side you have to be more than just quick. You have to be dangerous otherwise you just breakdown the play and throw away one of the few opportunities you have.

In summary Ole did get it wrong yesterday but I think again it just highlights the need for a squad rather than great first 11. The drop off is awful after the first 11/12 players.

I have my doubts about Ole long term and would change for the right top class manager but we need to back him with multiple purchases this summer. Someone to compete with Shaw and Matic, push Lindelof onto the bench, a RW to come in straight away and a back up attacker like Grealish.

Think he deserves another year even if we don't get CL. He´s done a great job of the rebuild so far, so let him finish it.

Let´s see where we are in a year´s time. His contract is up in 2022 anyway if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Think he deserves another year even if we don't get CL. He´s done a great job of the rebuild so far, so let him finish it.

Let´s see where we are in a year´s time. His contract is up in 2022 anyway if I'm not mistaken.

He deserves another season regardless but if we go through another prolonged spell in the first half of the season like we did this season then he should be gone. He really needs to show he can push the team on and actually challenge for the title instead of trying to bundle over the line for top four.

Either way he will leave our next manager with a much better squad than he inherited which is a good thing. I just hope he can win something with this team (and a few additions, hopefully) himself.

 

[Withnail]

Let me tell know how I know.

19/6 - Spurs
24/6 - SU
27/6 - Norwhich
30/6 - Brighton
04/7 - Bournemouth
9/7 - Villa
13/7 Southampton
15/07 - Palace
20/ 07 - Chelsea

Listen to managers and players who say, you do not have time for tactics and formations when games are coming this thick and fast.

Most of the time it is about rest and getting back to playing.

You're talking like they never played the system before though. These are professional footballers and are used to playing different formations. They didn't look much better or worse after we were forced to change things so I'm not sure we can put it down to that. They looked like they had less energy than Chelsea and were second best all over the pitch.

 

[AshRK]

No. It is called poor management.

We are not Burley or a team from the bottom half playing Man City where we sit back defend and hope for the best.

We are Manutd playing Chelsea who are 1 point away from us and got absolutely battered off the park. It is naivety from the manager.

I know what, I will play Dan James regardless of his form now because it worked before? Dan James has done nothing since restart to even deserve a starting place.

I like Ole and I think he is done well but this is exactly what he needs to improve on. We are not the same United as before and he keeps saying that, so why go back to the same old tactics?

We have been playing well in the 4-2-3-1 formation. We had 2 days to practice this 5 at the back and it showed.

This is a team 1 point ahead of us and has lost more games that United have and we acted as if they are Barcelona.

But being flexible is important. On one hand people complain he uses the same tactics but then when has a plan B(which btw has worked in the past) people are like don't use it now because it is a boring tactic. It doesn't work like that.

I didn't have issues with the formation. Hindsight can be a funny thing and he could have rested Matic too but it doesn't work like that. Yesterday was a shit show for everyone involved and not just the manager. And then you have a head injury to one of your players and he was proactive in changing the formation in middle of the game but sadly our defender and de gea conceded at the worst possible time. Take 0-0 to the half and we could have started the game with a fresh energy but we were 1-0 down and then de gea decided to have another mare and conceded again at the worst possible time.

I am not making excuses for Ole as I myself constructively criticized him after the match but one cannot just put full blame on him. And what's also funny is before the match people (not pointing at you) were like who cares about FA cup are the same people bashing Ole. Get the Top 4 and do the best in europa.

 

[AshRK]

Not trying to make excuses for our players or anything of the sort, but I think that this is a good point. It's not the usual structure that the players are used to and the amount of games we're playing in a short space of time was always going to lead to a dip somewhere. Several of our better players looked knackered in the last game and in the game beforehand. Fernandes, for example.

It's partly why so many where questioning here beforehand whether or not we should be resting key players for the West Ham game instead of playing them vs. Chelsea. In the end, those players didn't get much rest (if any at all) and we ended up with a bad result against Chelsea.

If this teaches Ole anything, it's that he has to "know" his squad better. There has to be players that should be jumping at the chance to come in and play in an FA Cup semi-final. It's a squad game, not a first 11 game anymore. It's hindsight, for sure, but there does need to be a bit of foresight from Ole, too. He should already be looking at his players and realising which ones look gassed. In any line of work, when you're knackered, you don't perform close to your best or optimum level. There's a level you can get away with, where you can slog it out and push through. I looked at our team yesterday and, yes the starting tactics and formation weren't great, but the important players just looked like they needed an extra couple of days of rest.

It's still a learning curve for Ole and I am behind him because he's our manager and I want him to do well. We hit a stumbling block yesterday and it would've been nice to get to the final. But, we'll see what happens against West Ham. If we lose that game and don't get a result against Leicester and don't make top 4, then he will deserve the criticism. I think that's fair. I hope that it doesn't come to that and we do get the results that we want.

But you cannot just make 11 whole changes to the team. First of all even if ole wants to do that he doesn't have players to change the whole team. People here are saying he should have rest Maguire but who should he replace him with considering Bailly himself is a walking disaster (as shown yesterday also with his injury). Awb yes he could have been rested but with shaw out and williams playing with one eye it would have been equally risky. And to ask fosu mensah start 2 games in 3 days after being out for ages could have backfired.

The fact is he did not start our best 11. He did use our bench players in Fred, Williams, James, Bailly but it did not work out. Like I said hindsight is funny and he could have dropped matic too and played Mctominay and could have started with Ighalo( I would have) but what's done is done. Ole didn't predict de gea will have a mare and neither he predicted Bailly will have a head injury. These things happen and we have lost games like these under sir alex too. So i don't understand why so much overreaction now.

 

[Withnail]

Quick question. Gathered it’s not the same team that finished second. Is it currently a better team or a worse team?

Not even trying to get to my point. I’m just pointing out a lot of people said Ole had a lot of work to do to improve that team that finished second and he’s currently doing a good job of doing so. So just wanted to know based on those points we can argue this team right now is better than that team that finished second?

If you follow what I’m trying to say?

The first XI we have available right now is probably better, and certainly capable of playing the more attractive football.

Although, I'd rather have De Gea from that year than the current version and that is a huge difference.

However, in Jose's second year he had a better bench which is why the squad team needs strengthening.

It's a bit simplistic to couch it in terms of Ole improving a team that finished second, given the style of play is different, certain players don't fit that style and that others who played a significant number of league games were in decline i.e. Jones, Valencia, Mata, Lingard, Young.

 

[welshwingwizard]

Think he deserves another year even if we don't get CL. He´s done a great job of the rebuild so far, so let him finish it.

Let´s see where we are in a year´s time. His contract is up in 2022 anyway if I'm not mistaken.

I do agree. He has grown over the season. Or he has become luckier which is half of being a top class manager. We need to back him in the market now. 3-5 players in depending on how many leave.

The only circumstances I would change is if a top class manager became available. If a player can be improved upon we should always seek to do so and that opinion holds for managers too.

 

[Mainoldo]

Didn't I say my thoughts (that top 4 is much bigger priority than FA cup) ? How would I know what Woodward thoughts are?

I asked you should our CEO have the same thoughts as it was to do with our financial position and if so should he be making it be known to our manager?

It’s not a trick question.

 

[Terminator]

I'm still on the fence. Sack if we dont make top 4 or win a trophy was my opinion before season started. I'm sticking with it.

 

[patty123]

You're damn right it's about him personally. A supposed legend defends the Glazers (after being against them as a player), lies to our fans, says Glazers INVESTED money in Man United, calls fans not coming to the stadium fake etc. etc. If anyone else did this everybody would be up their throat. Why do you lower your standards now??

Alex Ferguson did the highlighted bit and Keane did the rest so it's not just Ole that is the hypocrite right ?

Situation under Mourinho became that toxic because he wasn't backed properly. He finished 2nd with THIS team more or less and didn't get any of his targets to improve upon that.

Really so backing a manager to the tune of 350 million in 3 summer windows is not backing him and you have no idea of who he wanted, just the words of a bitter man ranting after getting sack, oh feck off would you.

Also don't give me that crap about 'takes time to fix and repair things'.

Nov 86, AF takes over tries the rest of the season and decides nah not good enough, then tried his first efforts with the "kids" yup failed, then from 88 near breaks the transfer record each time with new signings and did not win the league till 93.

So yeah things take time to turn around, suppose if you were of age 1990, you would have wanted AF out so ? Well based on you're post here it would.

The bloke needs another window and the chance to get rid of some more of the deadwood he inherited and then he can be judge from Xmas onwards. Yes he made mistakes yesterday but its not like AF never made similar ones.

 

[roonster09]

I asked you should our CEO have the same thoughts as it was to do with our financial position and if so should he be making it be known to our manager?

It’s not a trick question.

Ok, let me put it this way. If I think top 4 should be top priority then wouldn't I think CEO should also think same?

Anyways, yes I hope Woodward thinks in the same line.

 

[welshwingwizard]

Fred and McT are both off the pace now since the restart. Which is a shame since they were in great form before. They need to come in to the team and grab it by the scruff of the neck. They both seem a little tentative and that doesn't fly anymore.

This is my concern with Fred. He seem to need a long time to play himself into form. Can we afford someone like that in a squad role?

 

[romufc]

I am not making excuses for Ole as I myself constructively criticized him after the match but one cannot just put full blame on him. And what's also funny is before the match people (not pointing at you) were like who cares about FA cup are the same people bashing Ole. Get the Top 4 and do the best in europa.

I do not think it all comes down to the system. I agree, getting dumped out of the FA cup, I am not too bothered about really if we get top 4. I was more bothered in the manner of defeat.

The players have clearly not stood up and there were way too many basic mistakes.

Ole for me is still the man, he needs to learn from this.

I do see the positives from this defeat though. Not necessarily from the game itself but as a project.

1. Ole has rotated in 2/3 games and we have come unstuck - lack of depth
2. We are not there yet, players/ fans believing in the hype need to calm down
3. When pressed we need to be better against oppositions.

I would rather us see these mistakes / failures in the squad come to light to the manager and the board this season than us starting next season believing we have enough. It was a good game to mess it up on.

It also will give us an indication of the character of this team, can we bounce back from a defeat?

It is a very young team, if you want to challenge for all the trophies, these are the challenges we face going forward.

 

[DarkChild™]

There's too many variables that Ole has to deal with. He has played with some of the best players at united for ages, he knows what a united quality player is (the story about Ferdinand in training after signing is a good example). Ole is not managing from a position of strength because he has not won anything, whereas some of his players have won quite a lot. He has to manage players while maintaining the dressing room but he certainly knows who needs to go. I hope he can make top 4 and win EL. Then we will see his edge on display. Keep him and back him.

 

[Superunknown]

But you cannot just make 11 whole changes to the team. First of all even if ole wants to do that he doesn't have players to change the whole team. People here are saying he should have rest Maguire but who should he replace him with considering Bailly himself is a walking disaster (as shown yesterday also with his injury). Awb yes he could have been rested but with shaw out and williams playing with one eye it would have been equally risky. And to ask fosu mensah start 2 games in 3 days after being out for ages could have backfired.

The fact is he did not start our best 11. He did use our bench players in Fred, Williams, James, Bailly but it did not work out. Like I said hindsight is funny and he could have dropped matic too and played Mctominay and could have started with Ighalo( I would have) but what's done is done. Ole didn't predict de gea will have a mare and neither he predicted Bailly will have a head injury. These things happen and we have lost games like these under sir alex too. So i don't understand why so much overreaction now.

Absolutely, I didn't suggest making 11 whole changes. That's the part where I specifically said that Ole needed to "know" his players and identify which ones would be in need of a rest and which ones would be dying to come in and play. He was right to give Greenwood a rest as he looked tired in the last game. It was right to give James a chance and a Ighalo could arguable have started this match. Playing Fernandes was preposterous and he is probably the first player who looked in need of a rest. He looked tired at Palace and should have been the first player swapped out. AWB is another player who hasn't looked sharp and has also looked out of form, so he's another who could have been rested. Huge question marks over playing Matic too, although I now expect McTominay to start against West Ham. No way can Matic be looking at starting that game...

Resting players is one thing and maybe Ole would have gotten a better result and performance had he not changed the tactics and formation, too. It didn't really solve anything and it backfired because we still ended up playing Rashford, AWB, Martial, Greenwood, Pogba, Matic and Fernandes, along with Lindelöf and Maguire at least for part of the game, and ended up with a negative result. I wouldn't even count this as an overreaction by the fans, but rather justified criticism because this is a crucial point in the season and has an implication going into the next one. Many of these same players are the ones who will most likely be playing a part in the game against West Ham.

As for De Gea: he hasn't looked great in recent games/this season and Romero played against Norwich in the last round. In fact, I don't think De Gea has played an FA Cup game this season, but I may be wrong on that. (just looking that up now). If so, then why swap out Romero in place of a keeper who isn't in great form and hasn't played in that competition in the first place?

We will see how the West Ham and Leicester games go. I am still optimistic that we will get the results that we need and will finish in the top four. But, I hope that Ole learns from this experience against Chelsea because there's a lot to learn from that.

 

[Karlos PFC]

So yeah things take time to turn around, suppose if you were of age 1990, you would have wanted AF out so ? Well based on you're post here it would.

I think you're not serious. United was a different size in 86 (albeit smaller).
United now are one of the top 3 most powerful clubs in the world. We dont lack funds or anything. City in a decade came from non existent to 4 times champions.

 

[montpelier]

Given how the fixtures are I think there has to be some un-convincingness occur if we don't do the Top 4 now.

But I doubt the Ole Out people will shut up anyway.

He should have sacked when Top 4 looked impossible really. If you use it now you can't see the improvement which is a nonsense.

So just the defence and us looking knackered to worry about.

 

[Lee565]

Can ole seriously be let off and not sacked if he cant get a win against west ham at home or away to a Leicester side that have handful of their best players missing whilst ole has pretty much a full strength side to pick from?

I have real concerns of his ability to rebuild this club, his summer transfer window was underwhelming, it's funny that he was happy to snub Fernandes in the summer in favour of spending the cash on the others and yet he turned out to be the only real good signing made this summer, he green lighted de gea getting a new contract and has been weak by being afraid to drop de gea at the back end of last season and this one to drop him.

 

[Mainoldo]

Can ole seriously be let off and not sacked if he cant get a win against west ham at home or away to a Leicester side that have handful of their best players missing whilst ole has pretty much a full strength side to pick from?

I have real concerns of his ability to rebuild this club, his summer transfer window was underwhelming, it's funny that he was happy to snub Fernandes in the summer in favour of spending the cash on the others and yet he turned out to be the only real good signing made this summer, he green lighted de gea getting a new contract and has been weak by being afraid to drop de gea at the back end of last season and this one to drop him.

Even scarier he was willing to snub Bruno again to get a striker (Halland) can you imagine that midfield trying to play football for Halland.

 

[Halftrack]

Even scarier he was willing to snub Bruno again to get a striker (Halland) can you imagine that midfield trying to play football for Halland.

Resorting to just posting fantasy now, are we?

 

[crossy1686]

Resorting to just posting fantasy now, are we?

That's what the people who want Ole sacked for Pochettino do. They make up scenarios that never happened to be angry about, it's quite amusing really.

 

[tombombadil]

Are people here really ignorant of the fact we just got screwed out of the FA Cup by the poor match scheduling + poor refereeing and actually blaming Ole for the loss?

 

[Godfather]

If he can't get us top 4 and/or the Europe league win he should go

 

[rotherham_red]

Ah, I see the usual know-nothing cnuts have sprung up from their creeks of utter dismay to pipe up again... As you were.

 

[Halftrack]

That's what the people who want Ole sacked for Pochettino do. They make up scenarios that never happened to be angry about, it's quite amusing really.

It's ridiculous. Haaland moved for a scant €20m. Had we gotten him, I'm willing to bet my left testicle that we'd still be in for Bruno.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Have we not sacked the useless Norwegian failed Cardiff City Manager yet?

If Moyes wins we might consider brining him back.

 

[glazed]

That's what the people who want Ole sacked for Pochettino do. They make up scenarios that never happened to be angry about, it's quite amusing really.

No, we say Ole is tactically outdated and naive. He doesn't know when to rotate players within his weak squad, leading to strong runs of wins followed by even stronger dips. We say he's also a Woodward yes man appointed because he's willing to operate without complaint within an outdated club structure geared towards money making not winning trophies.

 

[Mainoldo]

It's ridiculous. Haaland moved for a scant €20m. Had we gotten him, I'm willing to bet my left testicle that we'd still be in for Bruno.

You’d have been a ball less. Google is everyone’s friend. I can’t remember figures of €20m ever been mentioned for us. I also can’t remember any mention of a midfielder until McTominay got injured and Pogba was ruled out for surgery. But maybe that was all in my head too. Maybe Pogba was never injured, probably faking it.

 

[SER19]

Might be third on Wednesday night. With a europa qf coming up. Conversation should be on hold until seasons end

 

[Mainoldo]

Might be third on Wednesday night. With a europa qf coming up. Conversation should be on hold until seasons end

I bloody well hope we are. We need that Champs league money.

 

[Keefy18]

Yes, when we didnt have a team to play any other formation, we have used that formation before after working on it in training.

Haven't a clue what you are on about with this. It makes zero sense, we had players to choose from and he opted for CB's and wingbacks... but yeah do try dig yourself out of a hole.

We had 2 days to train for this at best.

Fantastic so fatigue was indeed a genuine issue and adding a CB to a back line suffering from fatigue makes logical sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

What is our strength? attack, so what do we do? sacrifice all attack for defence.

Pretty sure counter attacking football is... attacking football, its in the name for god sake. I mean, SAF was lauded over his brilliance for attacking football with... counter attacking football.

During those times we played those formations, our strength was our defending so we defended and counter attacked.

No idea what your point here is again, seems a repeat to try convince yourself or somebody you know what you are talking about, keep digging.

Ole got it wrong. simple as.

Nope, just fatigue and lack of quality in the squad is the reality of the situation.

 

[Keefy18]

So do you agree we should have just rested players.

I think Ole played it right in that he rested some of his best players and played others to try get the win.

It's really simple

Ole was slaughtered for resting players and making 9 changes vs Norwich for not wanting to win the cup.
Ole is now slaughtered for picking a strong XI and fielding quite a few regular players.

It's a lose lose situation to folks like you who just want to bitch about every single little thing.

He picked a strong enough XI to get the win, the players are fecked after a tough run of games in a short period of time and Chelsea had 4 days grace on us. It shouldn't be all that surprising when they then have more energy than us.

 

[anant]

Might be third on Wednesday night. With a europa qf coming up. Conversation should be on hold until seasons end

Are you asking from patience from our fans? We don't do that here.

Nearly every opposition fan, journalist (Henry Winter gave an interview yesterday to Stretford Paddock) and neutrals believe that we are on the right track, we've made progress and this is the best we've been in the post-SAF years, but our armchair critics believe that none of it is true.

 

[bond19821982]

Might be third on Wednesday night. With a europa qf coming up. Conversation should be on hold until seasons end

He has to go if we can't get a CL spot next season..no 2 ways about it. He is getting a pass not because he has been a brilliant coach/ manager but the team achieved the bare minimum that was asked.