No, the only possible scenario is to play Bruno Fernandes for every minute of every game until his effectiveness has diminished and your football is crap again.
To even suggest anything other than that is to have an agenda.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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No, the only possible scenario is to play Bruno Fernandes for every minute of every game until his effectiveness has diminished and your football is crap again.
To even suggest anything other than that is to have an agenda.
So now that Spurs squad was average? And here's me thinking it was good enough to win the PL the year Leicester won but they bottled it.
Yes mate he did nothing wrong. No crap better players give you better performances. But we still had an 11 good enough to challenge Chelsea as you said we beat them with the same players already.It’s just stupid to think Lampard wasn’t going to clock on from the previous defeats. Well only you and the managing staff.
Even if I agreed with you which I don't, it's the manager who decides on which players to bring in, the starting XI, which formation and tactics to use which gives those players the platform to perform.
You can't divorce the performances of a team over a 19 match run from the manager. Why have a manager at all in that case?
Picking a formation that had beaten Chelsea 3 times previously is clueless?
How is picking something that previously works, wrong? That isn't logic, that doesn't make sense.
Ighalo doesn't offer pace, if you want to play counter football you need pace. Ighalo would of been the wrong choice.
Can you let me know when those 3 times were? We have only used it twice
It is clueless if you think the same tactic will work over and over again without doing anything different. Lampard is a good coach who knew exactly how we will play and countered it.
When you want to soak pressure, how do you get out without a player who can hold the ball up? How often did James or Rashford get in behind? 2 times at most.
Then he goes and plays 2 holding midfielders. We had 7 defensive players on the pitch.
Always good to see few coming out of caves only when we drop points or lose games.
Who are the ones you‘re referring to?
I don't have an issue with him playing a semi strong team. To me it was the formation which would never work with the players he had to bring in.
Unlike Keefy above, I think changing to a back 3 threw us off our game and put us on the back foot from the off, ceding the advantage to Chelsea when is we had stuck to our natural game we could have out played them.
I think you can play three CBs and a DM when you have 2 wing backs like Evra who are capable of driving the ball forward and adding to attack justifying the defensive additions. With William's and Wan Bissaka all you create is a back 5.
None of the midfielders are then capable of driving with the ball forwards meaning Fernandes, Rashford and James are completely cut off. With no attacker capable of holding the ball up it also means on the times the ball does go forward we cant retain possession because the gap is too big for support to get up.
It seemed starting Igahlo would have helped as he could have held the ball up but I would have stuck with our normal formation and just switched Lindelof for Ighalo. Maybe matic for mctominay although mctominay and fred have both looked rusty since returning.
What to do on the right is the bigger question. We should give up on James. To be useful in a counter attacking side you have to be more than just quick. You have to be dangerous otherwise you just breakdown the play and throw away one of the few opportunities you have.
In summary Ole did get it wrong yesterday but I think again it just highlights the need for a squad rather than great first 11. The drop off is awful after the first 11/12 players.
I have my doubts about Ole long term and would change for the right top class manager but we need to back him with multiple purchases this summer. Someone to compete with Shaw and Matic, push Lindelof onto the bench, a RW to come in straight away and a back up attacker like Grealish.
Your talking too much sense you will be flooded with nonsensical emotion. But I feel this comes from the top and that’s what really requires updating.
https://www.sofascore.com/chelsea-manchester-united/KsN
https://www.sofascore.com/manchester-united-manchester-city/rK
https://www.sofascore.com/chelsea-manchester-united/KsN
Three examples there, two of them were vs Chelsea.
I'm running out the door for an appointment and I could find that within seconds.
I don't see much wrong going back to a previously successful tactic.
It’s just stupid to think Lampard wasn’t going to clock on from the previous defeats. Well only you and the managing staff.
We did indeed but like I say, fatigue is clearly a massive issue in recent games.
We've played 4 games in 9 days and 3 of them have been away matches with Chelsea having 4 days rest.
Color me shocked they had more energy about them than us.
We played exact same formation and players (except Shaw instead of Bailly) when we won 2-0 against City and City were barely in the game.
Also exact same formation and players (except Shaw instead of Bailly) when we won 2-0 against Chelsea at brdge
We played 3 at the back when we won 1-0 at City away in league cup and also Chelsea away.
I agree with your point that we shouldn't have played it but this has worked well in big games this season. We should have stuck to something that was working well since restart.
Yes, when we didnt have a team to play any other formation, we have used that formation before after working on it in training.
We had 2 days to train for this at best.
What is our strength? attack, so what do we do? sacrifice all attack for defence.
During those times we played those formations, our strength was our defending so we defended and counter attacked.
Ole got it wrong. simple as.
One point summed it up perfectly. Bruno was on the ball in what would have normally resulted in a forced pass between the lines to the forward. He looked up and James was just chilling between Two Chelsea players trying his best to not look available. Bruno could have still played the ball but he knew James would have not been able to hold it up. Add Ighalo to that and it’s a totally different ball game. The tactics again was just off.
The difference with those games is we were somewhat forced to use those formations then. We didnt have anyone in the attack to play our normal game.
How can you go with the exact same formation and tactics for the 3rd time against the same manager and think it would work.
We might have used that formation before and it worked but we also had time to prepare for those formations, the Chelsea away game came after a winter break. This game came after 3 days. We looked lost in that formation and you could tell it didn't suit us.
So do you agree we should have just rested players.
Ok Mr.Hindsight.
Incredible amount of spin in this post. For a start, this is not the same team that came second. It's truly baffling that you would even suggest it. I think you need to look back at Mourinho's team sheets that season. There have been wholesale changes since then.
3 of our current starting XI got more than 20 appearances in the league that season and a further 2 got more than 15 appearances.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that the team that came second was good enough for the title. They never were and De Gea playing out of his skin earned them something like 10 extra points that season.
Also, Mourinho got fired because he threw his toys out of the pram and lost the dressing room. He didn't have to do that, he chose to so that's on him.
You could make that argument for every top team in every league. They all have the best players, so why should any of those managers get credit?
If you're going to go in this direction with your thinking, you have to then look at how Ole has performed against the better teams. Those are the games where both teams have a strong squad and, in theory, tactics would be more likely to be the deciding factor. That's only fair, right?
Games under Ole against the following opponents - Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Leicester
Won 12
Drawn 3
Lost 4
Its not too shabby. Rather impressive actually. For me, this should put to bed any strong arguments that he is out of his depth tactically. Those numbers speak for themselves
No. It is called poor management.
We are not Burley or a team from the bottom half playing Man City where we sit back defend and hope for the best.
We are Manutd playing Chelsea who are 1 point away from us and got absolutely battered off the park. It is naivety from the manager.
I know what, I will play Dan James regardless of his form now because it worked before? Dan James has done nothing since restart to even deserve a starting place.
I like Ole and I think he is done well but this is exactly what he needs to improve on. We are not the same United as before and he keeps saying that, so why go back to the same old tactics?
We have been playing well in the 4-2-3-1 formation. We had 2 days to practice this 5 at the back and it showed.
This is a team 1 point ahead of us and has lost more games that United have and we acted as if they are Barcelona.
This type of thing baffles me. How do you know how often the team practices different formations?
Yeah if you think players somehow forget how to play 3 at the back and start from 0. Maybe we should stick to 3 at the back as player might have forgotten to play 4-2-3-1 as we played 3-5-2 this game.
Yeah comparing James and 3-5-2 is all same. Well done.
If we'd changed it and lost, it would be "why would you change a strategy that has worked before?"
In other words, you guys will find something to attack any time we lose a game. Its getting boring
Let me tell know how I know.
19/6 - Spurs
24/6 - SU
27/6 - Norwhich
30/6 - Brighton
04/7 - Bournemouth
9/7 - Villa
13/7 Southampton
15/07 - Palace
20/ 07 - Chelsea
Listen to managers and players who say, you do not have time for tactics and formations when games are coming this thick and fast.
Most of the time it is about rest and getting back to playing.
I can't stop thinking back to when Klopp was implementing the high energy high press at Liverpool. It took several dips in form due to fitness before it really became consistent. I wonder who our fitness coaches are.
Quick question. Gathered it’s not the same team that finished second. Is it currently a better team or a worse team?
Not even trying to get to my point. I’m just pointing out a lot of people said Ole had a lot of work to do to improve that team that finished second and he’s currently doing a good job of doing so. So just wanted to know based on those points we can argue this team right now is better than that team that finished second?
If you follow what I’m trying to say?
That's not true at all, there is still a very strong chance we could finish third. Even if Leicester hadn't collapsed Chelsea aren't that far ahead of us.
So are you saying Ole was right in his formation and team selection?
I said I would have stuck to 4-2-3-1, doesn't mean Ole was wrong. You win few games and you lose, doesn't mean everytime we lose/drop points, tactical instructions or selection was wrong. We had few excellent results with same formation and players against Chelsea and other teams too.
I wouldn't have played players like Bruno too, looks like our players are shattered and would have rested Bruno too along with AWB.
Why was you wondering? Do we play high press?
I just think Ole got it wrong this time. we dropped points against Spurs and Southampton, I did not question Ole then cause I could understand what he done.
I agree we have had excellent results. Like you mentioned, I would have rested AWB, maybe not Bruno because he is our only hope of creating anything.
Matic shields the back 4, why play him infront of a back 3? Fred and Mctominay would have been very energetic pressing Chelsea. We need Matic for the next 2 games.
AWB looks absolutely shattered, Maguire looks tired.
I play football, however good or fit you are, if you are fatigued, you will make sloppy mistakes. I don't think AWB, Maguire are bad players, they are tired.
Because of Covid, we have to travel to games on the day, so we went from london on thursday back to Manchester with Friday as recovery, then Saturday train prepare for the game and Sunday travel again.
All this travelling, is mentally tiring for players too. Some people may think this is an excuse but I think we are underestimating how tiring playing games is on players.
For me it's simple, this season we will make huge loses and we are not backed by oil money or some russian gangster, so this season top 4 is much more important than FA cup. In any other season I would have argued FA cup is important but this season after the Covid, we have to look at the financials which will have significant impact on our transfers. For that reason alone I would have rested even more players, Bruno, AWB, Maguire even Rashford.
Oh my, where do I start. I was right. You personally hate him and then it is hard to see any positives.
About Glazer. So, he is in support of Glazer according to you. So what? He is, love it or not, the one who owns the club. To go against your owner is a big no. So what is he supposed to do? Print t-shirt saying " I hate Glazers"? As any bussinessmen they want to earn money. But we got to say they have invested alot. Look at our budget since they took over. Look at our spendings since they took over. They are not cheep. They invest. Solskjaer does what he thinks is right for the team, not what is right for you as a sensitive individual.
Using same team? Physical preperations? Reacting on other teams? Please, if you don't know anything about coaching don't talk about it. Us having coaching licence can see what he does, what he want to do and if it is going right or wrong way. Nobody is perfect but to come up with this is beyond me.
So, once again I ask you. Is Ranieri better manager then Ferguson because his titlewinning team won by more points than Ferguson? Is Liverpool, Chelsea, Liverpool, Leicester better sides than us in 90's or 2000? Points should be looked at in context. Not taken out just for fun sake and how it works for own cause.
When it comes to Mourinho, we can talk about it forever. He got backed. Not as he think he should be but he got. If it is right or wrong I can't tell. What I can tell is he got lot of players. Like vanGaal. And it didn't go that well. He got sacked because of his behavior towards end. Against everyone. And I can easly say that, despite that I like him and think it is shame that it didn't go well.
You are talking alot about standards. How long should a manager keeps his place before he gets sacked? What is the minimum a manager needs to do every year to have his job at Manchester United? And are you willing to sack manager every year/half year until they reach your expectation?
I agree, but whatever the case the players should be putting more of a fight.
The thing I do not completely agree with people is Ole is crap. After every loss or draw Ole is crap.
We do not have the depth in our squad. Chelsea can rotate their midfielders with similar quality
Kovacic, Kane, Jorginho, Mount, RLC, Barkley whereas United's midfield is different.
Matic, Pobga, Bruno - beyond that we look far off it. Fred is a a good player but he needs to be playing every game before he gets form.
I remember a time when United fans wanted Fergie out. What a load of BS that turned out to be. Football is going in the right direction for once at United. Eventually it's Oles responsibility when players aren't performing, and i'm sure he'll address that this summer.
Our tactics and formation relies on high intensity. You can't keep intensity up without rest. Two days rest is not enough for us to play the way we do with our current squad depth. Bruno, Pogba, Rashford were all out on there feet. Williams, Maguire and Greenwood are playing through injuries. The squad is thin but it is not lacking commitment. Yesterday was a culmination of things that led to a bad day in the office. It's not a lacking of big game mentality. Chelsea weren't even that good, we were just shattered.
Yeah out squad depth is very poor, which means Ole had to rely on first 11 all the time. One game he rotated vs Norwich and none of the played well enough to win a regular place. This means our first 11 played too many games in last 8-9 days.
I hope we address this in summer, "we don't need Grealish" "where will sancho play" should be put to bed, our squad depth is poor, I have 0 confidence in any of them replacing our attackers.
Solskajer should have played Fred a lot more though, instead of just relying on Matic.
Fred and McT are both off the pace now since the restart. Which is a shame since they were in great form before. They need to come in to the team and grab it by the scruff of the neck. They both seem a little tentative and that doesn't fly anymore.
So isn’t this where Ed comes into play? I mean in Spain your Ed Woodward would have spoke to Ole and kindly indicated. Maybe you make your top 4 is your priority’hint’.
Still 100% back him and have done since the start (helps that he's one of my childhood heroes) despite getting very very worried and at times massively frustrated in the first half of this season.
One thing I'd like him and his staff to improve on is having a plan b when playing out from the back isn't working, too often we just try the same thing over and over when it isn't working (eg. against Chelsea yesterday)
It seems a bit puritanical at times to stick to our intended style resolutely, we need to accept sometimes we have to play a bit grubby to get a result. Liverpool certainly didn't seem to mind this season (and nor should they have)
I'll be gutted if we don't get CL next season but it shouldn't be the determining factor in whether we stick with our manager our not, and I don't believe it has been in the past either (correlation, rather than causation I would argue)
There are more than enough positives to continue into next season with what we're currently building.
One thing I'd like him and his staff to improve on is having a plan b when playing out from the back isn't working, too often we just try the same thing over and over when it isn't working (eg. against Chelsea yesterday)
It seems a bit puritanical at times to stick to our intended style resolutely, we need to accept sometimes we have to play a bit grubby to get a result. Liverpool certainly didn't seem to mind this season (and nor should they have)
I'll be gutted if we don't get CL next season but it shouldn't be the determining factor in whether we stick with our manager our not, and I don't believe it has been in the past either (correlation, rather than causation I would argue)
There are more than enough positives to continue into next season with what we're currently building.
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