Today’s match was not a must-win.
The FA cup has no bearing whatsoever on the future of the club or whether or not Ole keeps his job. Getting into the CL does.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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The FA cup has no bearing whatsoever on the future of the club or whether or not Ole keeps his job. Getting into the CL does.
Is this a serious post?
OGS didn’t take over from a team who finished 2nd, he took over a team that was on its knees and was even lower that the Moyes disaster.
For your own sanity, perhaps take a break.
The point is that even though we've taken 20 out of 24 points in the last quarter of the season, we're on 62 points with two matchweeks left. That says a lot about how our season has gone overall. And that's in a season where Arsenal and Tottenham have been dire, nor have Chelsea done particularly well, so it's not like we've been up against a strong cast. A few years ago, 69 points saw us finish 6th with six points up to 5th. If we play next season like we have this one while the other clubs around us do alright, we'll be back down there again. It's not like we've coasted to a comfortable top 4 finish. It required a massive turnaround and isn't secure yet.
Ah, ok, that kind of changes the narrative, but it is true. We were better once we didn't have injuries. At the same time, injuries are part of the game, and in every season, some players get injured. A lot would say that if Shaw would not have injured, LVG would have continued to be manager for some time, cause we were playing well till that point.
So yes, if you remove some variables that are guaranteed to happen, and if you count only specific parts of the season, there was progress. If you consider the entire season, with all the variables that happen (injuries, luck etc), then nope, there is zero success. Nill, zilch, nada.
Can someone shed some light on the mystery of in which universe this season was better than Mourinho 17-18 (or even LVG 13-14)? And why this run is more impressive (and so has more progress) than when we went 25 matches without losing under Mourinho?
I'm actually agreeing with you. Today was not a must-win hence the many changes to the XI where we looked predictably worse because squad players aren't up to the mark.
Still don't understand the idea behind changing the formation and tactic of having us sit-deep, when we've been playing best football for years on the front foot. He needs to react and make in-game adjustments quicker, was pretty apparent this was being played like the match at home to Southampton. But, at least we created few chances then. Today I cannot recall us creating anything. Individual errors lead to goals yes, but the setup/personnel weren't right to accomplish the goal at other end. His management shows certain flaws/limitations from time-to-time, as long as we are not going overboard with it. I don't see any reason why it can't be discussed.
Performances could obviously have been better. But there is an excuse that we had a raft of injuries throughout the year, especially to our best players. Even McTominay was out for 2 months if you remember, and we were literally down to Fred alone in midfield with Perreira at one point.
I think with another summer of successful signings, which I'm sure OGS is capable of doing, then we will see a much more consistent and deeper team to rely upon next season.
The football has been very good though. We have improved vastly now that we have been able to field our first eleven most of the times.
You keep harping on about the past but we can only talk about the here and now. I don’t care about past runs. Our goals are to qualify for the CL and hopefully win the EL. I thought we could have won the FA Cup but hey that’s gone. I know you don’t think Ole is the one to take us forward and on that I guess we disagree.
Under Jose we won two trophies but the team he took over had just won the FA Cup and failed to get into the CL by goal difference.
The team Ole took over was in a much worse shape and all morale gone.
The team Ole took over was in a much worse shape and all morale gone.
Never seen another fan base be this allergic to facts. I'm still waiting for someone to write a coherent argument as to why Ole should get another season, why are we better etc.
And no, 'team spirit', 'fan excitement', 'yoof', 'feeling' etc. are not valid arguments. Those are irrelevant, subjective, abstract things that have no relevance and have no impact on the future of the club. Give me objective stats, information, track record that even hints at us improving, going upwards etc.
Time will do it's thing, as it always does.
Seasons don't finish in December. Proven by the fact we were in an even worse situation this December, only Ole didn't get sacked for some reason. I wonder why. Also proven by the fact Leicester were comfortably in CL back then, now hanging by a thread. Last full season before Ole came we finished 2nd with 81 pts and scousers were behind us.
But for the sake of the argument let's say it's true Ole took the club in 6th position. He still inherited the same team that was so great it was completely unacceptable for Mourinho to finish 2nd with. According to our fans he improved that team with great recruitment and getting rid of deadwood. He got a full offseason to prepare the team, got a full season under his belt, can't shut up about how happy he is with the squad. So how is it that suddenly our whole team 12-25 is shite, scrapping for top 4 is a wonderful achievement and we're in the best situation post SAF? It certainly isn't because the other teams improved so much, most of them are having bad seasons too, which only makes it worse.
Do you people not hear how insane that sounds? I didn't make anything up, this is all literally coming from our fanbase.
It is not me who is questioning others loyalty, it is you. You do not know every single supporter here and you dont know how much they love the club, my father supports united since 1960 and never ever thought he can stop supporting united despite the club being relegated but he thinks Ole is not good enough, maybe he is a plastic fan too? so I say cut this thing judging others loyalty because they question their manager.
All those posters who do not think he is good enough is not basing their judgment only on today's game, in fact I do not think he is to blame we lost today, but i do question his ability to manage a team, know how to rotate, prioritize games. I do think he is novice tactically but I am not basing it on today's game. Today was a very good example he has other managerial defects, he played 7 starters, yet changed the tactics so we looked shit and ended playing all our first team players yet we lost the game. Fatigued starting 11 next game with low morals.
Speaking as someone who is still on the fence about Ole, it's been easier to be optimistic about some of our performances under Ole because they've looked more cohesive and fluent than anything we had seen under LVG or Mou, in that we can see partnerships developing between players and some attacking patterns, leading to our attack looking far more devastating (during good games at least). Under LVG and MOU, even our good runs largely comprised somewhat stodgy performances that didn't really suggest anything developing.
The morale was gone, but the team was better IMO. It was the same team that won those trophies, and had ended with 81 points 6 months earlier.
Ole deserves credit for one thing: bringing the happiness back to the players which resulted with a higher morale. After that, it has been mostly poor.
Wind Up.
I'd recommend you support a club. Switching between Molde, Cardiff, Molde and now Utd probably doesn't match the true experience of supporting a club.
I can agree with that to some degree. In attack, we are better than we were under LVG and Mourinho (though again, if we go selectively, we were better under LVG in that purple patch we trashed City, Spurs, and Liverpool). In defense, we are worse than we were under either (though maybe that is because of De Gea). And I felt that we had much more control in the games back then than now, despite having better players.
I just feel that with other clubs being shit, and him spending over 200m pounds, we should have been much better. Maybe not to challenge for the title, but to be comfortably the best of the rest.
I'm not convinced we have what it takes to play on the front foot against other big teams even with our first 11, unless the other team is managed by Mourinho. We just haven't seen any evidence of it; in fact we looked shaky against teams like Villa, Southampton and Palace. Whether that's more on the players or the manager is another debate.
Scraping for a top 4 was always going to be an achievement after the disasters of Jose and the debacle with so many players.
Ole has come a long way with one worthwhile addition to the team with Bruno who came in during the winter window.
Our style has changed too and we play much better especially in attacking.
Our defense and midfield needs to get sorted out and I am sure he agrees with it too.
I have initially thought he was not good enough but I have changed my mind now and I would love if he is supported during the transfer window and also strengthen our squad. I also wish he would get a bit more experienced and knowledgeable assistant.
Ole has come a long way with one worthwhile addition to the team with Bruno who came in during the winter window.
Our style has changed too and we play much better especially in attacking.
Our defense and midfield needs to get sorted out and I am sure he agrees with it too.
I have initially thought he was not good enough but I have changed my mind now and I would love if he is supported during the transfer window and also strengthen our squad. I also wish he would get a bit more experienced and knowledgeable assistant.
This has to be the worst thread on the Caf.
Sadly some fans just don’t get it.
I’ve been in the “Ole out” camp because his tactics leave a lot to be desired but that doesn’t mean that I have to pretend that I don’t see the clear individual improvements he’s brought to the team . The team harmony is way better now and the players are more United than they’ve ever been over the past 6 or 7 years.
To sack Ole would undo all the hard work, time and money that has been put into this rebuilding. Also the players seem to like him a lot and the club atmosphere might turn toxic again should he be sacked especially now that the team is starting to gel. I genuinely feel we’re finally turning into a good team and we just need to get a few things right in terms of coaching staff and player recruitment .
I think it’s obvious for every United fan that we lack quality squad depth and these past three games starting from Southampton has rehashed that. Also since I believe Ole shouldn’t be sacked now, what I do want to see is changes to the back room staff.
I want Mike Phelan gone because I honestly don’t see what he brings to this team. Ole should get in a proper designated assistant coach. A coach who is brilliant on the tactical side and can offer game changing alternatives like what Buvac was to Klopp or Arteta was to Guardiola. I like Carrick and McKenna but Ole needs to add someone with fresh ideas to them if he really wants to succeed at this club.
I know it’s a bit lazy of me to reduce our problems at the club to these two issues but they’re the most important and pressing IMO.
Give Ole next season, if after that we don’t see any progress then we go for someone else. I don’t believe Ole will win us titles but I do believe from what I’ve seen in the last 20 games we should let him finish the rebuild because he will leave us in a much better state for whoever will come in next.
To sack Ole would undo all the hard work, time and money that has been put into this rebuilding. Also the players seem to like him a lot and the club atmosphere might turn toxic again should he be sacked especially now that the team is starting to gel. I genuinely feel we’re finally turning into a good team and we just need to get a few things right in terms of coaching staff and player recruitment .
I think it’s obvious for every United fan that we lack quality squad depth and these past three games starting from Southampton has rehashed that. Also since I believe Ole shouldn’t be sacked now, what I do want to see is changes to the back room staff.
I want Mike Phelan gone because I honestly don’t see what he brings to this team. Ole should get in a proper designated assistant coach. A coach who is brilliant on the tactical side and can offer game changing alternatives like what Buvac was to Klopp or Arteta was to Guardiola. I like Carrick and McKenna but Ole needs to add someone with fresh ideas to them if he really wants to succeed at this club.
I know it’s a bit lazy of me to reduce our problems at the club to these two issues but they’re the most important and pressing IMO.
Give Ole next season, if after that we don’t see any progress then we go for someone else. I don’t believe Ole will win us titles but I do believe from what I’ve seen in the last 20 games we should let him finish the rebuild because he will leave us in a much better state for whoever will come in next.
Great post. He signed a 3 year deal and no one can argue there wasn’t work to be done. anybody saying Ole out now would be fecking pissed if they were in his position and they got sacked year one.
I'm absolutely questioning why some support the club. It's constant misery in this thread.
The fact is we have had huge injury issues through the season and a squad that wasn't good enough to compete. Low and behold, we sign a couple of players in January and get players back from injury and we look far better. A run of 19 games, against anyone, suggest huge improvement. But the fact remained, as a squad we aren't good enough to make big changes and get away with it, we still have far too many players not up to it. There's loads more to do, sure, but there has also been significant improvement.
Also, you yourself have said you don't think he is to blame for today's lost but you are in this thread again moaning about the manager.
Not sure if serious...
I actually rewatched that LVG purple patch fairly recently, and thought it wasn't as good as I remembered. Spurs was basically 30min of good football, Liverpool looked the likelier to score when Gerrard was sent off (for a period), City was great but more in terms of our intensity than great attacking play. It's alsp a bit hard to compare the runs as well as LVG's run comprised going toe-to-toe with big teams (of which City and Pool were significantly weaker than they are now), while the current run consists of completely dominating a few weaker teams and looking threatening all match.
I think defence has largely been down to De Gea. He just hasn't been able to bail us out anymore.
As for control - not sure. Under LVG we would hog possession until we finally scored, then often lose control once the opponent tried to get a goal back. (I recall in the 1-1 draw with Chelsea, the latter had something like 90% possession until they equalised). Under Mou it was hard to feel comfortable when we kept giving up the ball willingly. Ole is like a mix - we surrender control against big teams and try to dominate the weaker teams, but often come up short against weaker teams who play aggressively.
I'm the same even on the day we won against psg he isn't going to take us to the top. Results withstanding.
I can't believe this thread has been bumped after one defeat. If you cant see big improvements in this team then your an idiot. Some of our fans are embarrassing.
No one, not one person here has an agenda against ole. Why would they? If I could choose one person I want to be a success here for years it would be ole.
Mourinho before, sure there could've been an agenda because he's a cnut and doesn't represent united but ole? No i can't see a reasonable reason for an agenda.
Do you reckon Pep should be sacked for the City performance yesterday out of interest?
Thanks for this, good post. I admit that I haven't rewatched those matches, but from memory, I remember liking that period a lot. It genuinely looked that we were building something good and might compete for the title the next season.
No, there are multiple posters with a definitive agenda, posters who were literally moaning about us getting results because it would buy Ole more time.
Anyone still going on about how there are no signs of improvement and that we rely on individual brilliance can also safely be ignored as agenda driven.
This thread is probably the worst in the forum
He got it wrong today, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that.
I said I felt he needed to do something special after such a bad start, and he is a few games away from doing just that. If he gets top 4 from where he was, that will be excellent
It’s ok to say he messed up today though, and that it’s something that is concerning and he needs to learn from. He got caught in two minds and got soundly beaten while not fully resting anyone. It was a disaster today.
There doesn’t need to be an uproar or knee jerk reaction, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with noting how badly he managed the game today and saying it concerned you.
I said I felt he needed to do something special after such a bad start, and he is a few games away from doing just that. If he gets top 4 from where he was, that will be excellent
It’s ok to say he messed up today though, and that it’s something that is concerning and he needs to learn from. He got caught in two minds and got soundly beaten while not fully resting anyone. It was a disaster today.
There doesn’t need to be an uproar or knee jerk reaction, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with noting how badly he managed the game today and saying it concerned you.
I've always been Ole in, and I think he is the right man for the job. That's not about to change, irrespective of where we finish this season.
I do however think it's the manager's job to make difficult calls, and if he persists with De Gea next game he'll go down a bit in my estimation.
I do however think it's the manager's job to make difficult calls, and if he persists with De Gea next game he'll go down a bit in my estimation.
Leicester have basically handed us top 4.
If we can't get TOP 4, how do you expect us to challenge for the Premier League going forward with the same coaching staff?
Every time I start to get convinced with Ole, it seems we start tumbling down.
If we can't get TOP 4, how do you expect us to challenge for the Premier League going forward with the same coaching staff?
Every time I start to get convinced with Ole, it seems we start tumbling down.
Failure to get top 4 has to mean sack. He had 1.5 years and millions to build something. However, I am positive that with him, we will achieve that this year. Unfortunately, there are someworrying signs, including (some of) his transfers and his team management. Maguire and Wan Bissaka are fine players but I do thing we overpaid. Also, OGS has the tendency to stick to his preferred players no matter what: DDG, Rashford, Wan Bissaka, Maguire and Bruno are going to play even if they had broken legs...
This thread is a hotbed of reactionary responses. Almost like those “anger rooms” where people are given a baseball bat and allowed to smash anything in sight as a cathartic release.
Reality is Ole is a club legend but he’s not an elite manager and we are forgetting he could come 3rd with the lowest points of al time - yep 64 , the same Moyes got when he came 7th and sacked ole win rate is less than 50% this season for me on that Basis alone is why we should move him on and if he does not secure CL football the decision should be made immediately, he will not win the Europa league because there are much better managers left in the competition and they will out manage him , simple , so Top 4 in PL to keep his job , otherwise we go get Julian Naigelsman or Poch or Allegri !
Agree.
I was and still am worried that our good form would be just another false dawn. We see glimpses of huge potential but is Solskjær the right manager to unlock our team? He'll get another season but we need to see consistency and not just 3-5 games of very solid play followed by 3-5 games where we seem lost. At the moment I think we're getting let down by personal errors. Lindelöf, Maguire and de Gea are performing very shaky at the minute and it's hurting the entire team. Fatigue is definitely playing a role here too but these errors we see from our defense are brutal and could potentially see us lose top 4.
I do agree with this but the reality in a distinctly poor premier league, our shining lights have been Bruno, Mason, Martial and Rashford all supremely talented players, my point we could be on the verge of something great with the correct two transfer windows but would you trust Woodward and Ole to deliver or stumble on something that just happens, Ole has now lost 3 semi finals in his one and half seasons my bet is it will be 4 in the Europa league, he runs out of ideas and he has harmony in 12 or 13 players but not 22 or 23 that’s our problem his CV is distinctly average and we could be fighting out 4 CL spaces with 8 teams next year if Ancelottu recruits properly and the Saudis throw millions at Newcastle !!
He has to win a trophy this year and now only has the Europa league left to make the fans believe he is a winner at managerial
Level not a nearly man !!
Poch
people must be on the wind up.
How can you watch us since the restart and the way we are playing..........and think we need Poch in because he will win 100% of his matches, was excellent in cup wins and was proper challenging for the league every season, he will defo come in and improve on the best form team over this period since start of the year.
Mind boggling the reactions after this game. Unrealistic in tbe grand scheme of things
Ole damned if he does and really damned if he doesnt
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