Why don't you let your ego aside and start accepting the reality. The point of the comparison is to tell you that we don't have Arab money like PSG & City so we can't have our manager to just splash money on the wrong players and expect the board to just give him more. It's not very difficult to know the difference between succeed and failure when you look at how Klopp & Mourinho spent their money to transform the broken team and what they accomplished, the numbers they spent aren't much different.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Why don't you let your ego aside and start accepting the reality. The point of the comparison is to tell you that we don't have Arab money like PSG & City so we can't have our manager to just splash money on the wrong players and expect the board to just give him more. It's not very difficult to know the difference between succeed and failure when you look at how Klopp & Mourinho spent their money to transform the broken team and what they accomplished, the numbers they spent aren't much different.
Bro it’s not an ego. You’ve swayed from the original point. I originally said he’s not best fit to win us a title and I hope we don’t hold onto this for too long. Many seem to think he might be and are willing to give this no expiration date until he expires himself like our last 3 managers. This then led us to talk about Mourinho where I was identifying when things should have ended. You then for some reason want to re-write history and explain to me how this is totally different and Mourinho never got anything right. Which I find confusing when he literally got us back in the Champions league then delivered our best season since Fergie retired. But we are moving off topic.
My main point is I hope we are planning for the next step after Ole, however I wouldn’t be surprised if we aren’t and end up knee jerking our next appointment. Like Jose was at the time.
Your point is that Jose didn't fail and you use a boring excuse of he wasn't backed.
In reality he was backed & spent the same amount of Klopp spent and he only got us into CL spot and we were going backward in his 3rd season.The project is to win major trophy. The project doesn't just stop in us being qualify for CL spot or reached 2nd place and going backward. On top of it due to his transfer strategy, he left the club in a mess for Ole. That's a failure mate. Not difficult to understand.
Have you got a comprehension issue?
Read the bold part again.. I also went on to agree he’s a short term manager and we had long term goals. You know like protecting the development of Rashford and Martial.
Just move on.. as I already said we are having two different arguments. I’m fully aware of where Jose went wrong I might my feelings known a lot at the time
Probably because with 2 matches left to play in the league, a semi-final in the FA Cup and a few matches in Europe, people really should be able to decide if they want him as manager or not.
I’d love to hear who the 23% would replace Solskjaer with at the end of the season, and how they envisage that change panning out next season.
They’re quick to throw criticism at Solskjaer but I doubt any of them have any clear idea or plan of what they actually want.
They’re quick to throw criticism at Solskjaer but I doubt any of them have any clear idea or plan of what they actually want.
Have you got a comprehension issue?
Read the bold part again.. I also went on to agree he’s a short term manager and we had long term goals. You know like protecting the development of Rashford and Martial.
Just move on.. as I already said we are having two different arguments. I’m fully aware of where Jose went wrong I might my feelings known a lot at the time
How many of different post you want me to requote it for you? Just read that bold mark!
You literary defending him by saying he wasn't backed and the money we gave on Jose pretty much fair to what Jose accomplished. In reality he was backed and he didn't do good job. He spent the same amount of money as Klopp and sent us backward which left the next manager Ole in a mess when took in charge.
@Mainoldo
It's funny isn't it? Ever since I mentioned "Klopp", you decided to run away from what you said and trying to find an excuse that we are talking different things. It's funny how we had couple of posts talking the same argument before and all of sudden you are playing dumb with it.
It's funny isn't it? Ever since I mentioned "Klopp", you decided to run away from what you said and trying to find an excuse that we are talking different things. It's funny how we had couple of posts talking the same argument before and all of sudden you are playing dumb with it.
@Mainoldo
It's funny isn't it? Ever since I mentioned "Klopp", you decided to run away from what you said and trying to find an excuse that we are talking different things. It's funny how we had couple of posts talking the same argument before and all of sudden you are playing dumb with it.
Give it a rest. I’m going to get a Cafe restraining order. I’m not debating Klopp because I’m not talking about Klopp. I’m not debating Jose wasting money either. He brought 2 CB’s and wanted another 1 CB.. who’s fault is that. However Ole might need another CB again. I don’t think many complain about how he’s spending his money if it improves us. Jose would have failed anyway.. but who would have known where that team could have ended up if we got him his CB, funnily enough Maguire being one of those targets. I just think it’s silly to not identify his achievements and that he write his own downfall by failing to work with what he had. May I point out again.. we made Ole work with what he had and he wasn’t doing very well until Bruno came. Are you going to tell me Ole wasn’t backed? 
All our players have got better under Ole, all our players got worse under Jose.
You don't need to debate on Klopp, I only used him as an example of how manager can be called success/not fail and I don't know what you are trying to debate on that. Let's don't make things complicated for yourself. You clearly made a clear statement that Jose wasn't backed & for the money he was given, you believe he made a good accomplishment. When the reality it's the exact opposite. So let's don't play dumb that you didn't make such a statement.
Ole was showing a complete different progress to Mourinho. Ever since we drew 1-1 to Liverpool, there was glimpse lot of positive things of what he's trying to do so it wasn't just until Bruno came. Whether Ole will finish the project or no, no one know but the guy is leading the club to the right direction while Mourinho didn't and it was disaster what Mourinho did given the amount of money he spent.
Sorry but your posts are complete revisionist man.
We're we hated, yes. Our own feckin supporters hated us we were that bad in every sense of the word. Our rivals didn't hate us, they were busting their asses laughing at us, he managed to turn many of our own supporters against the players and club and himself.
We were not feared at all.
And just a correction although we did win the Europa league, it was on the back of a truly abysmal season of finishing 6th... he didn't take a 6th placed team over, he took over an FA Cup winning side that finished level on points with Man City in 5th the summer prior. One year on, we dropped a placed and won a cup, which is logically worse than how LVG left us.
This argument is utterly redundant.
He wanted to sell an inform Martial who was performing for him with a goal involvement every 84 mins and get an ageing, run of the mill Perisic for the short term? Signing Perisic was not going to be the deciding factor in closing a 19 point gap.
I argued the same on the Martial thread, he had one of the best wide attacking players in Europe arguably in Martial from Aug 17 to Jan 18, then decided to feck him over and phase him out by signing Sanchez.
I'll let the numbers talk for themselves Mainoldo for the 17/18 season...
Martial played 1,582 mins in the Premier league and was involved in 14 goal involvements. Goal involvement 1.2
Perisic played 3,317 mins in the Italian league and was involved in 22 goal involvements. Goal involvement 1.6
Martial overall only managed half the mins playing time in all comps compared to Perisic just in the league yet remained more consistent than him.
Jose got the players he wanted by his own admission and refused to sell players to lower the wage bill and raise funds and made absolutely idiotic purchases, that's it in a nutshell as to why he failed miserably.
Before Bruno, our results weren't reflecting the performances. We beat Chelsea twice, beat City, Spurs and Leicester, drew with Pool who were in fantastic form. We struggled against teams that sat back and introduction of Bruno meant that we accelerated the process of transition.
I don't think there is a single player who didn't go up a level under Ole even before Bruno's arrival
Jose's reign was an utter fecking shambles and he left the club in a toxic mess.
It's absolutely surreal we have even just one supporter praising him in anyway shape or form.
Our lowest point probably going back to our relegation in the 70s was Jose's last game vs Liverpool. We were utterly smashed off the field that day and worse was even before a whistle was blown everyone bar the deluded Joseites saw it coming.
They set a record 36 shots attempted in a game against us in December 2018.
Jose was fighting with the board, the players and the media.
Our supporters were protesting the board
Our players were completely and utterly beat down and being shamed in the media by him
Players being phased out unfairly for performing (Martial for example)
Slated the clubs history in Europe.
All this before we get to the s*it on a stick football where Fellaini, Matic, Zlatan and Lukaku were basically just used as battering rams for hoof football and fighting for boring wins or at best draws more often then not.
It was an absolute s*it show in December and Ole and his team deserve nothing but praise for doing such an incredibly quick u-turn all things considered.
Our lowest point probably going back to our relegation in the 70s was Jose's last game vs Liverpool. We were utterly smashed off the field that day and worse was even before a whistle was blown everyone bar the deluded Joseites saw it coming.
They set a record 36 shots attempted in a game against us in December 2018.
Jose was fighting with the board, the players and the media.
Our supporters were protesting the board
Our players were completely and utterly beat down and being shamed in the media by him
Players being phased out unfairly for performing (Martial for example)
Slated the clubs history in Europe.
All this before we get to the s*it on a stick football where Fellaini, Matic, Zlatan and Lukaku were basically just used as battering rams for hoof football and fighting for boring wins or at best draws more often then not.
It was an absolute s*it show in December and Ole and his team deserve nothing but praise for doing such an incredibly quick u-turn all things considered.
Great post.
I hated Mourinho with a passion. Cheers for reminding me of his stupidity. The took over a team that finished 5th on goal difference is my favourite. I just hope you was with me in the trenches when I pointed that out a couple years ago and got a bag of excuses.
Anyway my argument is quite clear. We had an opportunity to let his contract run down and replace him whilst he teased us with PSG. But as you can see by these inbeaten runs in this thread his status were pretty amazing at the time and it seemed like the right thing to do. Do you reckon if we did a back or sack vote back then it would look pretty similar to the voting pole now?
Your argument isn't clear. You say how rubbish you thought Jose was in every other post then go on to tell us why he wasn't - then when people bat away your flimsy points you go back to saying how much you hated Jose like the rest of us without addressing them. It's obvious that you're only playing (red) devil's advocate as a way to play down Ole's management. I'd say your argument isn't clear but the reason you're making it is.
He passed the right to manage us in his first two seasons. His trajectory was in line with Peps but he failed to deliver a title. With reference to Ole.... if he gets Champs league he qualifies for a second season.
People said Jose failed but looking back at his run he did exactly what he’s CV says he does. I don’t get what’s so hard to grasp. Does this need to be a face to face conversation just so I can dumb down the point I was making from the start?
Of course it is as he is the manager. A near post corner is more difficult to defend than a simple straight forward one.
This is the point I am making. We are too simple in our corners. We scored the winner in the cl by Ole with a near post flick by Teddy.
Yet we always take a straight corner for Maguire to head.
Your point is clear.
You could even argue that LVG and Moyes did exactly what they were expected to do given their recent history. Moyes with the mediocrity, and LVG with the youth products and somewhat boring football. So that's 3 for 3.
United will be paying heavily for Jose's reign for years. How anyone can defend most parts of his management during his time at the club is beyond belief. Thankfully, Woodward learnt from his mistake and got rid before more irreversible damage could be done.
In hindsight it's easy to say that Jose should have never been given the job. Yes he won us two trophies but the scars he left is too vivid. Full credit to Woodward for doing something right for once and refused to get rid of some players Jose wanted sold.
I have changed my mind on Ole after hearing his interview. A man who accept his mistakes is the real deal.
He should be given backing and next season to see if he makes any progress. Backing him is extremely important.
We need three players at least.
I have changed my mind on Ole after hearing his interview. A man who accept his mistakes is the real deal.
He should be given backing and next season to see if he makes any progress. Backing him is extremely important.
We need three players at least.
There's no exact science with corners. The reason why so few goals are scored from corner kicks. To be fair, we have been hitting the first man very often over the last few seasons without much success.
He earned the right to manage in the first season just about, despite our league position being worse than it was the year before but I'd say the line-up, performance and comments he made after the Sevilla defeat means he didn't pass the right to go into a third season. Everyone saw where it was going, including you by your own admission, but unfortunately Ed was too slow to end the misery. Jose broke world transfer records and bloated our wage bill to be the 2nd highest in the world so with the resources he had available to him, he failed just like our previous two managers.
Also, not sure why you need a face to face conversation to dumb down your arguments, you do realise words have the same meaning when spoken or written right?
@UNITED ACADEMY @Keefy18 @Zen86 why do you guys bother arguing with him? He's beyond reason.
Though at least there's been some progress with him, and in his infinite wisdom, he has decreed that Ole has done a good job... In August and September he was counting down the days til Ole was sacked, and said he'll be ready and waiting for my apology when the deed was done
Though at least there's been some progress with him, and in his infinite wisdom, he has decreed that Ole has done a good job... In August and September he was counting down the days til Ole was sacked, and said he'll be ready and waiting for my apology when the deed was done
There is a pattern to it. Just look at good set pieces. We have been hitting their first man and not our players to flick it on. I really don't understand why some people think it's easy to defend against near post flicks? Once it's flicked then there are many variations to it.
When the situation here was at its most anti-OGS - a bunch wanted him sacked and basically ridiculing him for not being good enough for the job. Then there were quite a few who wanted him sacked, but basically said that sacking him alone wouldn't be enough - and that the entire club neeeded to restructure, DOF etc - basically - OGS is crap, but it's not his fault.
Well - here we are, he and his coaches have turned the club around - without a DOF, without a complete restructure. Doesn't that really say a lot about what a job he has done ? I haven't been this positive about United since Ferguson left. Sure we aren't there left, but now I see more possibilities than problems.
Well - here we are, he and his coaches have turned the club around - without a DOF, without a complete restructure. Doesn't that really say a lot about what a job he has done ? I haven't been this positive about United since Ferguson left. Sure we aren't there left, but now I see more possibilities than problems.
I think it's the LVG years that have had the most long term negative effect. In hindsight, it was a diabolical reign with hideous transfers and football.
Bask in it, my friend... Like you, I backed him to the hilt, and I'm delighted that he's managed to turn it around.
I've said it before, but if you actually looked at our squad last season and the start of this, you could realistically have argued that we needed two seasons' of transition at a minimum, even with the signings that we made.
That's why for me, his biggest achievement has been to essentially condense two seasons' worth of transition in to one. We more than likely won't be challenging next year, but we'll make a damn sight better fist of it next summer, than previous years, provided he gets properly backed with three signings (including Sancho).
Totally agree.
At start of season, the squad looked threadbare and lacking in quality. It was obvious we'd decided on another reset, but looked like it would take a long time. Moyes/LVG/Mourinho left behind a total mishmash of players, a confused and rudderless culture and a rapidly declining trajectory.
And to successfully overhaul all of that without sacrificing any league position under the intense pressure of Manchester United, and create a squad with huge potential and an upward trajectory is a Herculean achievement.
I've also backed Ole to the hilt and am really enjoying supporting the club again.
If you dont see where we were before Solskjaer took over and where we are now, then you have to start looking at football in other way. You seem to judge only by titles? Right? Well, football isn't that easy. It is not Football Manager. It is about, not just team, but also about club as whole.
Being worst season, looking at points, doesn't mean anything. Or do you mean that this Liverpool team or ManCity teams or Leicester team were better than us under 90s or 2000 because their title winning teams had more points? So in other hand you seem to think that Klopp / Guardiola / Ranieri were better the Ferguson?
Injuries? If you don't know how it works with injuries and getting go ahead by doctors so managers can play them, don't write. You are so wrong.
Klopp? It took him 4 years to get his first trophy in Liverpool. It wasn't exactly so that he won everything as soon as he got there. It took time. Time you seem to not give to Solskjaer for some reason. Looking at your post it seems to me that you are angry. And that you don't like Solskjaer on personal level.
We are playing well and in a strong position to finish a difficult season strongly. But if in late August we end up with nothing e.g no top four, no FA Cup or no EL then questions have to be asked and even if he gets to keep his job he will have to ring changes to his coaching set up to add something that is missing from a tactical point of view especially our play with the ball.
There was a time I was firmly 'Ole out' and I will carry my cross but still the fact remains that at this moment even though we are playing well, results wise, we still haven't achieved anything yet. We are where we were last season after PSG where we went on to throw the rest of the season away. Surely a repeat of that can't just be swept under the rug and we pat ourselves on the back claiming that it's a learning curve, again.
There was a time I was firmly 'Ole out' and I will carry my cross but still the fact remains that at this moment even though we are playing well, results wise, we still haven't achieved anything yet. We are where we were last season after PSG where we went on to throw the rest of the season away. Surely a repeat of that can't just be swept under the rug and we pat ourselves on the back claiming that it's a learning curve, again.
Moronic comment. We’re within reach of 3rd, and still in the FA Cup and EL. This could be a good season for us. But you’re clearly not going to recognise that
People knew Mourinho would drag the team down because of what he said in public, the players we bought, and the way we played. That was clear as day to most of us, as is what is happening with the club now.
Even Solskjær has won a trophy
It could be a good season for us (not great but good) and could be an awful season for us. I recognise both possibilities. I consider it far more moronic to ignore the bad possibilities because it "could" be a good season which is what you're doing. Also, saying my post is moronic doesn't disprove my point so if that's the best you can come up with, dont waste our time.
But by your logic, we were on a good run so all criticisms are moronic and stupid. Or does that only apply now?
And Brendan Rodgers won about 3 trebles in Scotland. Using your "logic", he did better than SAF only winning one.
I still want him sacked and I think he is not good enough.
Absolutely useless team selection from Ole. If you’re gonna play a strong team might as well go full out and start a strong XI or play a makeshift second XI. Doesn’t make any sense to start Bruno, Rashford and Matic and leave Pogba, Greenwood and Martial on the bench. Where is the trust in your squad? Why didn’t Romero start? Why isn’t he resting players who clearly need a rest?
Meh. Next two games are our cup finals.
Drop De Gea and realise you made a mistake signing James.
Drop De Gea and realise you made a mistake signing James.
Beat Chelsea all season, lose in cup. Beat City all season, lose in cup. If we call it our cup finals we are guaranteed to lose. Best for us to consider them dead rubbers, we rise up for those.
Ready...
Set...
Gogogogo!
Set...
Gogogogo!
This is what I've been saying for ages now. Theres no need to play the same damn players every single match. Yeah we dont have that much dept but we DO have replacement for certain positions. It's just dumb how he's running his best 11 into the ground and the same players having a game every 3 days isn't good for anybody. And you people are shocked the team looks tired and out of energy..
..no shit.
..no shit.
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