Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Withnail]

It's the brazenness I don't really understand.

I personally think that in the long run, we'll need to get a better coach than Ole even if he's a very good manager. But even with that thought, I wouldn't be surprised if he does somehow manage to win the big titles with us. If he keeps improving, hires the right people around him, and gets a lot of high level players, it may very well happen. Even if I think it's unlikely.

The thing I'm confused by is, the people who think he will for sure win those titles and take us back to where we belong, where are you getting the confidence from? Especially with the spectacular campaigns our rivals have put out over the past few years, and the general high level of coaching in recent times in the EPL, where's the brazenness coming from?

Who are you talking about?

Most I've seen are saying he's doing a good job, things are going well and the squad needs strengthening before it can be considered good enough to challenge for a title.

Things are improving and a team is coming together so sacking him at the end of this season would make little sense.

And that tends to be a reaction against posters who have been Ole out all along.

Have I missed something?

 

[Mainoldo]

Nah, most of us just support Ole because he's making progress in the right direction. I don't recall seeing any post like you said. Maybe a few though I don't read every posts anyway.

But you making it sounds like everyone who support Ole would think so is not true at all.

I was being extreme on both ends. I don’t think there’s posters that wouldn’t back Ole no matter how successful he is because they don’t think he’s up to it. At the same time I don’t believe there would be supporters backing Ole no matter how poor his results we’re just because he’s currently doing a good job.

 

[romufc]

Key point there was Pep and Klopp. He ain’t that. I wouldn’t expect Antonio Valencia to deliver CR7 performance no matter how much time I gave him.

But Antonio Valencia did replace CR7 and was part of the title winning team. Who said there is only one way of winning the title?

There are no other proven managers out there.

Klopp went 3 seasons without a trophy and you are not even giving Ole one full season?

 

[Strelok]

I was being extreme on both ends. I don’t think there’s posters that wouldn’t back Ole no matter how successful he is because they don’t think he’s up to it. At the same time I don’t believe there would be supporters backing Ole no matter how poor his results we’re just because he’s currently doing a good job.

Ok I see. Fair enough. Cheers.

 

[Mainoldo]

But Antonio Valencia did replace CR7 and was part of the title winning team. Who said there is only one way of winning the title?

There are no other proven managers out there.

Klopp went 3 seasons without a trophy and you are not even giving Ole one full season?

I agree. But we have to be quite clear on what it will take. Pep needed ball players, Klopp needed a strong mentality. I truly believe Ole needs the best team in the premier league to do anything successful. So we best be prepared to give him that. He needs to have a better team than City and Liverpool just to even compete.

 

[ivaldo]

Really, they ‘snatched’ a point. If you watched the whole game & thought a draw wasn’t a fair result then ok. I think you’re totally wrong & clueless when it comes to evaluating a game but you’re entitled to think that

I watched the whole game and thought a draw wasn't a fair result. They should've been down to 10 men, we were incredibly unfortunate to have both our starting and back up left back go off injured, they scored from an error and when we were down to 10 men, and we had the lion's share of opportunities.

 

[youngrell]

Watch the game back again & tell me we were convincing. Or that a draw wasn’t a fair result , as it definitely was

We played badly compared to other recent performances but still should have won the game convincingly with the chances we created. Southampton held the ball well for the last 20 minutes but did very little to harm us with it.

A whole raft of things went against us in the game and we still only fell to a 96 minute equaliser scrambled over the line, mainly through poor defending/concentration.

It felt shite, no doubt, but it wasn't anything as bad as you're making out.

 

[Leftback99]

It's the brazenness I don't really understand.

I personally think that in the long run, we'll need to get a better coach than Ole even if he's a very good manager. But even with that thought, I wouldn't be surprised if he does somehow manage to win the big titles with us. If he keeps improving, hires the right people around him, and gets a lot of high level players, it may very well happen. Even if I think it's unlikely.

The thing I'm confused by is, the people who think he will for sure win those titles and take us back to where we belong, where are you getting the confidence from? Especially with the spectacular campaigns our rivals have put out over the past few years, and the general high level of coaching in recent times in the EPL, where's the brazenness coming from?

Can you name any single poster with this view?

 

[Strelok]

I agree. But we have to be quit clear on what it will take. Pep needed ball players, Klopp needed a strong mentality. I truly believe Ole needs the best team in the premier league to do anything successful. So we best be prepared to give him that. He needs to have a better team than City and Liverpool just to even compete.

He beat City and drew Liverpool with Lingard. And only lost to them when had to play Pereira. Recently he smashed the so called low block ones with our current first XI.

May I ask why you've come to that conclusion?

 

[He'sRaldo]

Who are you talking about?

Most I've seen are saying he's doing a good job, things are going well and the squad needs strengthening before it can be considered good enough to challenge for a title.

Things are improving and a team is coming together so sacking him at the end of this season would make little sense.

And that tends to be a reaction against posters who have been Ole out all along.

Have I missed something?

A few pages back, the tone of the posts were like the people criticizing Ole were idiots for ever doubting, complete with sarcastic posts and the like. I don't understand where the confidence is coming from.

I partially agree with your position but that's not the vibe I've been getting. Yours is a more balanced take.

 

[RedDevilUnited369]

Liverpool just won a title do they look like the Liverpool of Old?

They have won quite a few trophies lately, yes, if your old enough to remember Liverpool's dominance, then yes they do look like Liverpool of old.

I was clearly referring to competing, regular CL football. Not style of play.

 

[Van Piorsing]

If we had Fernandes from start of the season, we would be only waiting for Europa League play offs now with top 4 already in the bag.

Supply him the players he needs, then I can judge definitely if he should f*ck off or stay.

 

[mu4c_20le]

A few pages back, the tone of the posts were like the people criticizing Ole were idiots for ever doubting, complete with sarcastic posts and the like. I don't understand where the confidence is coming from.

I partially agree with your position but that's not the vibe I've been getting. Yours is a more balanced take.

A few months back, the tone of the posts were like the people who supported Ole were idiots for still thinking he's the right manager for us. I'm not sure what your point is. A set of our fans are reactionary, knee jerk, and sometimes downright fickle.

 

[Mainoldo]

He beat City and drew Liverpool with Lingard. And only lost to them when had to play Pereira. Recently he smashed the so called low block ones with our current first XI.

May I ask why you've come to that conclusion?

We improved once we got better players. When I said compete I meant producing a title challenge. Not taking points of them in head to head just to be lingering around 5th.

That make sense?

 

[He'sRaldo]

Can you name any single poster with this view?

Basically anyone opposed to discussing replacements or alternatives, even those meant for the long run.

Because that's the next logical step. Gauge how far he can take us, and get his replacement proactively if need be. So if you're against that discussion, that means you do think he can take us to the top.

If the difference is in the timing of the replacement (some want him replaced now, some want him to get more time) then they're both on the same side except for differences in timing. And if some don't want him replaced at all, then that means that they do believe he can get to the finish line in the end.

That's the way I see it. So my question would be posed to those who don't want him replaced at all. Where's that level of faith coming from? I have faith in him doing a very good job, but it's really hard to win the PL and CL. I'm still skeptical about that.

 

[Mainoldo]

They have won quite a few trophies lately, yes, if your old enough to remember Liverpool's dominance, then yes they do look like Liverpool of old.

I was clearly referring to competing, regular CL football. Not style of play.

Fair enough. Didn’t you get that feeling under Jose?

 

[MalcolmTucker]

We improved once we got better players. When I said compete I meant producing a title challenge. Not taking points of them in head to head just to be lingering around 5th.

That make sense?

For someone who said earlier that they didn't want to debate Ole you've sure spent a lot of time in this thread debating Ole

 

[MUFromLTU]

We improved once we got better players. When I said compete I meant producing a title challenge. Not taking points of them in head to head just to be lingering around 5th.

That make sense?

It makes 0 sense.

We're at least 1-2 seasons away from having players on par with Liverpool/City, yet we're looking not far off when all of the 3 teams are playing with full squads. Or you're implying that our, youngest squad in league, is currently as good as City or Liverpool?

 

[Mainoldo]

For someone who said earlier that they didn't want to debate Ole you've sure spent a lot of time in this thread debating Ole

I know. I just didn’t want to debate it with you

If you was upfront instead of trying to draw me out I probably would have had a conversation about it.

 

[eltigreFalcao]

I would back the idea of hiring an assistant manager, tactically savy, who can work with Ole for the next two seasons or so. With intelligent and exciting signings in key areas of th field the rebuild is done, Ole can be appointed in another position, beign that DoF or whatever, and the assitant, if its the right one, can take the managers role. Just not sure who that could be.

 

[Mainoldo]

It makes 0 sense.

We're at least 1-2 seasons away from having players on par with Liverpool/City, yet we're looking not far off when all of the 3 teams are playing with full squads. Or you're implying that our, youngest squad in league, is currently as good as City or Liverpool?

I don’t know what you are trying to say.

I said... Ole needs the best team in the premier league to compete I.e. produce a title challenge.

How many years off we are is not what I was referring to. So it probably does make zero sense to you.

 

[TrustInOle]

I agree. But we have to be quite clear on what it will take. Pep needed ball players, Klopp needed a strong mentality. I truly believe Ole needs the best team in the premier league to do anything successful. So we best be prepared to give him that. He needs to have a better team than City and Liverpool just to even compete.

Well that's a load of tosh! we have out performed everyone since we replaced Lingard/ Andreas. Where do you even imagine things like this? Not to mention smashing City all season, whilst having big injuries to probably our 3 biggest influencers.

 

[Mainoldo]

Well that's a load of tosh! we have out performed everyone since we replaced Lingard/ Andreas. Where do you even imagine things like this? Not to mention smashing City all season, whilst having big injuries to probably our 3 biggest influencers.

Okay so we are ready to compete for the title next season?

 

[romufc]

I agree. But we have to be quite clear on what it will take. Pep needed ball players, Klopp needed a strong mentality. I truly believe Ole needs the best team in the premier league to do anything successful. So we best be prepared to give him that. He needs to have a better team than City and Liverpool just to even compete.

It all comes down to the ambition of the club. If the board is ambitious they would make money available plus all the players we can sell, we should easily e able to spend £150m nett.

Potentially, we have one of the best attacks and midfield in the PL. Liverpool are a system team, they do not have the stand out men like we do, they are more a collective unit. An injury to VVD, Mane or Trent could impact them. You can say the same about us as well. But we have very unique talents in our squad.

Pogba - There is no midfielder like him in the world
Bruno - KDB esque, makes things happen
Rashford - Quick, Direct, Skillfull
Martial - developing to be a top class No 9

We are missing a RW - Greenwood can do a job but we cannot rely on him all season, he will have form dips which is natural.

If we sign a RW, CM, CB, we would dominate most games.

 

[Matriac]

A few pages back, the tone of the posts were like the people criticizing Ole were idiots for ever doubting, complete with sarcastic posts and the like. I don't understand where the confidence is coming from.

I partially agree with your position but that's not the vibe I've been getting. Yours is a more balanced take.

Cause in my experience it's always better to think and act positively rather than assume the worst. Even to the edge of ignoring reality. Now I know it's not gonna matter what we write on a forum in regards to how we end up performing, but if you have a positive vibe going you have a much better chance at succeeding at your task than if you assume it's not going to work.

I doubt many of the posters some pages back actually believes for certain that Ole will bring all of the glory, he still needs to show improvement over time, but it's a counter-reaction to everyone that broadly say that we have no chance at all if he's our manager. If they can state so emphatically that Ole is a PE nobody coach that will relegate us, then some will post that we will win 4 Champions League Finals in a row with him.

 

[TrustInOle]

Okay so we are ready to compete for the title next season?

Who said that? If you think the fact we need better squad depth means Ole can only win with the best team in the league, your just being naive.

And for the record, yes we I think we will challenge. Being the best team in the league over the last 18 games is evidence enough we are on the right track and pretty feckin close. Or since Bruno do we suddenly have the best squad in the league now?

 

[Withnail]

A few pages back, the tone of the posts were like the people criticizing Ole were idiots for ever doubting, complete with sarcastic posts and the like. I don't understand where the confidence is coming from.

I partially agree with your position but that's not the vibe I've been getting. Yours is a more balanced take.

I think you have to take the history of the thread into account. From what I've seen certain posters have been extremely negative and staunchly Ole out from the start and have been heavily critical, sometimes insulting, of those who disagreed.

In short, the conversation around the manager has become quite toxic and I think what you are seeing is a reaction based on the conversations which had gone on previously.

 

[Strelok]

We improved once we got better players. When I said compete I meant producing a title challenge. Not taking points of them in head to head just to be lingering around 5th.

That make sense?

Well no.

I still don't see why Ole would need a better squad than Liverpool and City to challenge them to the title?

 

[Withnail]

Who said that? If you think the fact we need better squad depth means Ole can only win with the best team in the league, your just being naive.

And for the record, yes we I think we will challenge. Being the best team in the league over the last 18 games is evidence enough we are on the right track and pretty feckin close. Or since Bruno do we suddenly have the best squad in the league now?

It was a loaded question.

@Mainoldo believes you can win the title with a good first XI. He claims you don't need a loaded squad to do it. Presumably, the nameless manager can do it without luck or a miraculous injury free season.

 

[Mainoldo]

It all comes down to the ambition of the club. If the board is ambitious they would make money available plus all the players we can sell, we should easily e able to spend £150m nett.

Potentially, we have one of the best attacks and midfield in the PL. Liverpool are a system team, they do not have the stand out men like we do, they are more a collective unit. An injury to VVD, Mane or Trent could impact them. You can say the same about us as well. But we have very unique talents in our squad.

Pogba - There is no midfielder like him in the world
Bruno - KDB esque, makes things happen
Rashford - Quick, Direct, Skillfull
Martial - developing to be a top class No 9

We are missing a RW - Greenwood can do a job but we cannot rely on him all season, he will have form dips which is natural.

If we sign a RW, CM, CB, we would dominate most games.

I just hope that bloody board of ours gives him those positions as a reckon we’ll be looking very dangerous if they do.

 

[MUFromLTU]

I don’t know what you are trying to say.

I said... Ole needs the best team in the premier league to compete I.e. produce a title challenge.

How many years off we are is not what I was referring to. So it probably does make zero sense to you.

I just don't understand how you make this assumption that Ole needs a better team than other managers, to compete? If results are showing that with a squad, that is worse than theirs, we're playing as good currently?

I'm not saying we will compete next season, unless they have similar bad luck as we had this season with injuries. However we're comparing an up and coming team vs teams that are on their peak. 1-2 years and we should have as good squad as City/Liverpool and if we're behind them then - I'll understand similar conclusions as yours.

 

[Mainoldo]

It was a loaded question.

@Mainoldo believes you can win the title with a good first XI. He claims you don't need a loaded squad to do it. Presumably, the nameless manager can do it without luck or a miraculous injury free season.

I like you!!! Got it in one!

 

[mu4c_20le]

I think what Mainoldo means is that Ole is no Ranieri.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I think you have to take the history of the thread into account. From what I've seen certain posters have been extremely negative and staunchly Ole out from the start and have been heavily critical, sometimes insulting, of those who disagreed.

In short, the conversation around the manager has become quite toxic and I think what you are seeing is a reaction based on the conversations which had gone on previously.

I see, I avoided the thread once the insults started as it was grating to read. It does explain the brazen reactions.

I do still think that a lot are being overprotective of Ole, most likely due to the previous toxicity. But it makes discussion around the topic a lot harder. Maybe this is no longer the thread for that, ironically enough.

But it does beg the question, who does actually believe he is the the one that can take us back to the PL and CL?

 

[romufc]

I just don't understand how you make this assumption that Ole needs a better team than other managers, to compete? If results are showing that with a squad, that is worse than theirs, we're playing as good currently?

Yes, for a short period of time. Leicester / Wolves have had periods where they had great results. Their team is in their peak, which is why we need a better squad than the other teams.

Plus, since January both Liverpool and City have dropped off as they have nothing to play for really in the league.

 

[Strelok]

It was a loaded question.

@Mainoldo believes you can win the title with a good first XI. He claims you don't need a loaded squad to do it. Presumably, the nameless manager can do it without luck or a miraculous injury free season.

Whaaat ???

You either need incredible luck like Liverpool for the last two years. It was a bloody miracle that their first XI were basically immune to injures for fecking two years. Or more often, a squad that has enough depth, both number and quality to cover the injured ones.

 

[TrustInOle]

It was a loaded question.

@Mainoldo believes you can win the title with a good first XI. He claims you don't need a loaded squad to do it. Presumably, the nameless manager can do it without luck or a miraculous injury free season.

I've just come to accept people have a bias towards Ole now, so don't really get involved. But that comment was laughable considering how things have been since January. Also this whole talk about the table never lies crap

 

[Mainoldo]

I just don't understand how you make this assumption that Ole needs a better team than other managers, to compete? If results are showing that with a squad, that is worse than theirs, we're playing as good currently?

I'm not saying we will compete next season, unless they have similar bad luck as we had this season with injuries. However we're comparing an up and coming team vs teams that are on their peak. 1-2 years and we should have as good squad as City/Liverpool and if we're behind them then - I'll understand similar conclusions as yours.

Well I don’t know what to say. You just said you don’t see why I would say that with our recent run of form then you tell me are 1or2 seasons away. Did I not just give you my solution to the 1 or 2 seasons away. I mean what are you looking to do in those 1or2 seasons anyway.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Cause in my experience it's always better to think and act positively rather than assume the worst. Even to the edge of ignoring reality. Now I know it's not gonna matter what we write on a forum in regards to how we end up performing, but if you have a positive vibe going you have a much better chance at succeeding at your task than if you assume it's not going to work.

I doubt many of the posters some pages back actually believes for certain that Ole will bring all of the glory, he still needs to show improvement over time, but it's a counter-reaction to everyone that broadly say that we have no chance at all if he's our manager. If they can state so emphatically that Ole is a PE nobody coach that will relegate us, then some will post that we will win 4 Champions League Finals in a row with him.

I agree, I was like this at the start; the very poor run made me the skeptic I am today.

The counter reaction is fair enough, problem is it tends to shut down even valid Ole discussions, not only the hyperbole stuff.

 

[Withnail]

I see, I avoided the thread once the insults started as it was grating to read. It does explain the brazen reactions.

I do still think that a lot are being overprotective of Ole, most likely due to the previous toxicity. But it makes discussion around the topic a lot harder. Maybe this is no longer the thread for that, ironically enough.

Well yeah to be honest a number of people have suggested the thread be closed and discussion of the performance of the manager be carried out in a seperate thread.

I'd probably go along with that due to the nonsense which can go on in here.