Watch the game back again & tell me we were convincing. Or that a draw wasn’t a fair result , as it definitely was
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Watch the game back again & tell me we were convincing. Or that a draw wasn’t a fair result , as it definitely was
And what have we seen so far to make you believe he is probably not good enough? His record against the top sides or against lower table sides (granted, that has only significantly improved recently but was getting better before Bruno came)? Or maybe his transfer dealings?
Again, so you have nothing to back up what you said?
Interesting.
Ole clearly improves lots of our players in this squad considerably, except maybe Lingard.
The post I made wasn't about Ole, it was about how we played. We were 2 mins from a win when were were not convincing.
That is a huge positive.
Alot of games we have been unconvincing in and we've had 0 shots on target this season. West ham, Newcastle, Bunrley, Bournemouth etc..
There is improvement in the team.
Ooooh! So let me get this straight. Ole's "clearly not the guy" because all he did was win some random league titles in Norway... but it'd be all dandy to go for Nagelsmann (no titles), Franks (not even in the top 2 in the second tier) or "someone in Latin America"?
And then you contend you're not just on an agenda against Ole... Give everyone a break here.
I'm quite certain there are posters on this thread who will be sitting in front of their TVs tonight swaddled in CPFC scarves cheering on Zaha just so that they can come on here tomorrow and type "I told you so". Disgraceful.
Yes I do- go & watch the game again
Ole might not be good enough to win us big things. But we bought in 2 managers who were and none of them got us close to the title or play football we want.
It isnt enough to buy players, but however good you are, you will not go into a team and win big titles with Lingard, Jones, Perreira starting.
Go and have look where the elite coaches finished in their 1st full season in Pep and Klopp. Not comparing Ole to them but putting it into perspective.
Okay we had Jose who bought in Pogba, Lukaku, Mikhi, Lindelof, Bailly. How many of them improved? Or even the ones we had in Shaw, Martial, Rashford?
Ole has come in, Martial is top scorer, Rashford is having a brilliant season, Shaw is brilliant, Lindelof is much better, Pogba is becoming consistent?
How do you explain the above them?
What progress? Worst season in 30 years? No CL football even with horrific seasons from Arsenal and Tottenham? Chelsea ahead of us after losing their best player and having a transfer ban?
Why does Ole get credit for the 'turnaround' since February but no blame for the horrible first half? Why does he get a pass because of injuries when 1) he repeated a thousand times he's extremely happy with the squad, and 2) he directly played a part in some of those injuries? Martial missed more time this season than all the seasons before combined. He rushed Pogba back vs f-in Rochdale and lost him for the season. He played Rashford with back problems and lost him for months. You know why? Because he knows he has no depth, but still openly lies he's super happy with the squad. He blatantly refused to play Matić in the first half only for him to literally save his job in December. He then tried to bench him again first game post restart and almost lost because of it.
Again, can you tell me what progress have we made? Certainly not in points, trophies or quality of play. He signed two defenders for 100+ million and still had the longest run without a clean sheet in 4 decades.
How can you people watch SAF for so many years, watch Pep and Klopp now, and then look at Ole and think 'yup, this is the guy that'll take us to those heights again'?
It should be telling enough that the only 'arguments' in his favor are that people literally have to pretend and convince themselves that the worst season in 30 years is an improvement and have nothing else to say in his favor other than 'but look at these other managers, they did it, so Ole will too for sure'...
The whole point is: before the start of the season everyone agreed we were the 3rd or 4th best team in the league. No one put Arsenal above us, no one put Chelsea above us with their ban. CL qualification was the bare minimum requirement before the start. The Ole stunk the place up, then improved upon said 'stunking' and now if he chokes, we don't qualify, don't win either of the 2 cups he should stay because he managed to almost reach the initial goal after majorly underachieving most of the season?
Get higher standards ffs
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No, they snatched a point in the dying seconds of the game against 10 men.
It’s great that so many have finally changed their vote to match the one I made right at the start and never changed. I do though hope that some of those who changed their vote at least reflect upon the value of not being so reactionary.
if anything, Ole has grown into the role over this time and I think the size and expectation of the club clearly doesn’t weigh as heavily on his shoulders as the other managers since Sir Alex retired. I think we’re very lucky to have such a good person in charge as well. He’s clearly someone who treats others with respect and has some class about him.
if anything, Ole has grown into the role over this time and I think the size and expectation of the club clearly doesn’t weigh as heavily on his shoulders as the other managers since Sir Alex retired. I think we’re very lucky to have such a good person in charge as well. He’s clearly someone who treats others with respect and has some class about him.
Many players have not improved much too like James who he signed. I think Martial and Rashford were already producing before under Jose. Not for the last part before the sack so well. Allthough Martial was scoring and Rashford
was mainly benched for Lukaku who didn't produce. Having someone giving them more attacking freedom would clearly make them better for scoring goals. I say as a central forward he has done Martial better. His movement has improved even though he does a lot on his own rather than in union with the team. Still individual brilliance is a positive thing. With Rashford I feel it is mostly just natural devlopment. I don't think he has turned smarter or tactically better under Ole, but mostly grown with his individual skills. I love him,but part of my family and friends dislike him for his decisionmaking which can still be poor at times.
Shaw and Lindelöf are just fairly good players. Mourinhos hating on Shaw was weird,but he was our player of the season last year officially. Lindelöf just had a slow start,but was already producing better even under Mourinho.
Tactically we are defending alright so that is a positive thing.
Greenwood and Williams he deserves credit for introducing to the first team. They have done very well too particular Greenwood.
Even though the football is better now than the Mouriinho one we are still worse in the table than his last full season. So the results are worse. Although the atmosphere is clearly much better, but we need to produce results as well.
I am not sure Ole has the tactical and mental level to take us to title challenge level. I hope I am wrong, but that is my feeling so far. If we can win a cup this season together with top 4 it might change my mind and show winning mentality.
Well obviously you can’t have a proper discussion about Ole & think that I wouldn’t want us to win..so no point Talking to you. Go and create a thread gushing over him even when we’re not convincing & don’t listen to any other perspective
Good post.
Do you reckon if Ole hired a coach to make up for his lack of coaching ability and tactics we could still wing a title? Like a Quoriuz level coach.
Yeh you’re right to laugh actually. Why would you want to watch an unconvincing United performance again
Really, they ‘snatched’ a point. If you watched the whole game & thought a draw wasn’t a fair result then ok. I think you’re totally wrong & clueless when it comes to evaluating a game but you’re entitled to think that
Yes that might be the case. Since his man management appears to be pretty good. Apart from with some players like Lingard not sure what is up with him. Transfers and ideas are working with squad building.
I did question him not buying another striker before after we sold Lukaku, but Martial is doing well with playing all the time. Ighalo has done well as a last minute buy for cover.
I just hope we make our moves fast now and do not wait. Want them ready for next season from the start. I guess we will not get a full pre season this time around.
I do like the reply to the post.
On Martial and Rashford, we can call it natural progression or whatever but we never saw that from Lingard and many other talents that have come through. I feel they both stagnated under Jose.
Even though players have natural progression, you need a coach to guide them and allow them to progress over the course of their career.
I agree league position is where it is judged, which is why I hope we can get into the top 4.
Again, however much I love Ole, i agree with you, he may not be the manager to bring us the league title. What he will do though is get us to a position where the next man in charge can bring us the title.
At this moment, there is no manager like that.
Oh, I haven't got an agenda really. They worked hard to get the point. I'm being quite literal:
Literally, they snatched a point in the dying seconds of the game against 10 men.
That's a fact, whether they deserved it or not.
Yeah let’s hope we don’t rest on our laurels and not strengthen accordingly like last summer. We need Sancho and two midfielders I think. If there’s money for a CB I would invest there too for the umpteenth time.
I’m still worried we just rely on having amazing players hence why I think Lingard has suffered.. but maybe the top level coach could change that.
I thought Rashford and Martial played pretty well under Jose before Sanchez came. That really changed things around the squad.
I think Rashford scored twice vs Liverpool, but didn't do much more that season near the end.
Lingard played really well that season too. It is crazy what has happened with Lingard. Not sure why he is not working with Ole.
I just don't think Ole can elevate a team tactically to the next level. To really dominate the way Pep and partly Klopp does.
If he can bring in a top assistant manager though maybe that could help with the tactical part.
I think Ole has done his job to be honest and a great job at that. Holding onto him would just be a repeat of this season but with better players. I also fail to believe there isn’t a manager out there that can’t take Martial, Rashford, Pogba, Bruno, AWB, Maguire, DDG and hopefully Sancho to a Prem title.
Ole still doesn't have his full team so what have you seen so far apart from a rebuild project that's heading in the right way?
Don't know why people think this. A new manager comes in and it's back to the drawing board in terms of if he likes our players, our playing style, will our players work for the new manager etc, etc...
All the work Ole has done to get us looking something like Utd of old will be erased.
People thinking Ole is tactically naive 
We didn't play well, that is a fact, and overall I would say that Southampton were worthy of a point, but we pretty much kept them away from our goal very well I thought, especially from dead ball situations, apart from the very last one. I personally would have played Fred, and pushed Pogba further forward, with Bruno in a withdrawn 9 position, but it is what it is. I thought we were under par, and we did struggle with the press, but Southampton looked a very good team, well organized, and hard working, we still had several good opportunities to score, which we didn't take, I think that is what the poster thought. Think they will go well next season, top ten on that showing if they keep Ings.
You've sidestepped @AshRK's question there- you're arguing that they constantly looked a threat but you couldn't point to any chances they created during that period? Says it all tbh.
They deserved a draw, yes, but equally we should have done much, much more with the 3, 4 very clear additional chances we created outside of the goals. It's not a zero sum argument.
It's the brazenness I don't really understand.
I personally think that in the long run, we'll need to get a better coach than Ole even if he's a very good manager. But even with that thought, I wouldn't be surprised if he does somehow manage to win the big titles with us. If he keeps improving, hires the right people around him, and gets a lot of high level players, it may very well happen. Even if I think it's unlikely.
The thing I'm confused by is, the people who think he will for sure win those titles and take us back to where we belong, where are you getting the confidence from? Especially with the spectacular campaigns our rivals have put out over the past few years, and the general high level of coaching in recent times in the EPL, where's the brazenness coming from?
I personally think that in the long run, we'll need to get a better coach than Ole even if he's a very good manager. But even with that thought, I wouldn't be surprised if he does somehow manage to win the big titles with us. If he keeps improving, hires the right people around him, and gets a lot of high level players, it may very well happen. Even if I think it's unlikely.
The thing I'm confused by is, the people who think he will for sure win those titles and take us back to where we belong, where are you getting the confidence from? Especially with the spectacular campaigns our rivals have put out over the past few years, and the general high level of coaching in recent times in the EPL, where's the brazenness coming from?
Liverpool just won a title do they look like the Liverpool of Old?
True that is a fact, & yes they were lucky we were down to 10 men I agree.
I still think looking at the game as a whole a draw was a fair result
He can never win, half of our fans have decided he’s not elite and never will be. This man could deliver us another treble and you’d still have this thread bumped with people saying “yeah but if we got a top manager in we could win a treble treble”. As if Klopp and Pep came out the womb holding the Champions League trophy.
He has no chance when people have already set their stall out that he’s not good enough. He needs to win 100% of the games just to keep people off his back. We’re unbeaten in 17 games yet we draw one game and this thread goes insane again. We would collapse if he left, part of me wants to see the inevitable shit show, but unfortunately I love the club too much.
We never know, he has shown against bigger teams he can adapt, we set up well in Paris being 2-0 and Ole has won titles in other countries, I know it's not the same but it is something.
We need to have some faith.
12 months and he's done his job? Give me a break. Pep had 2 summer transfers, Klopp took 3 years and these are elite managers. No, you should be asking is there a manager who could have won the title with the squad last year? because the names you mentioned are Ole signings and hes had 1 month to work with his best squad.
As in, I think give him next season and see where things are. If we are battling for 4th, Ole has to go. If we see signs of progress, he stays. I just hope we have realised the type of manager we need to bring if Ole fails.
I do agree if Ole is sacked this summer, we are rewinding 2 years again. It is Ole or bust now.
Totally agree with that assessment of the game , that’s how I saw it too
93rd minute tap in.
I think it’s both ways. Some who believe he’ll never ever be good enough like you said. Then others who believe no manager in world football could ever have done what he’s done with the resources and injuries he’s had this season. The truth is in the middle as always.
And it took klopp 4 seasons to get the title. Not saying Ole is klopp but you cannot expect quick results unless we spend like city and get all our transfers correct. I think it will be fair to give ole one more season and if we are again just fighting for 4th position then I would say yes maybe time to thank Ole for his work and move on.
Key point there was Pep and Klopp. He ain’t that. I wouldn’t expect Antonio Valencia to deliver CR7 performance no matter how much time I gave him.
But you’ve already provided me with the doubt. You couldn’t back him without giving me that notification that he’s not Klopp. All I’m saying is I don’t see anything wrong in pushing his predecessor forward. If he is available that is. But he will get his season next season providing he get Champs league and I don’t really see anything wrong with that. I just don’t want us to waste a cycle. Liverpool have timed their cycle right but if they don’t invest and the clubs below are hungry enough they can be easily caught.
I really hope not.
Nah, most of us just support Ole because he's making progress in the right direction. I don't recall seeing any post like you said. Maybe a few though I don't read every posts anyway.
But you making it sounds like everyone who support Ole would think so is not true at all.
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