I'm not a teen or a WUM, and I feel the same way. There are people on this forum for whom winning this stupid Ole in or out battle is causing them to be, perhaps subconsciously, quite satisfied when the team struggle. I get it. It vindicates their own opinions. Everyone wants to be right.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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I'm not a teen or a WUM, and I feel the same way. There are people on this forum for whom winning this stupid Ole in or out battle is causing them to be, perhaps subconsciously, quite satisfied when the team struggle. I get it. It vindicates their own opinions. Everyone wants to be right.
I prefer evidence which going from the actually noise at the stadium getting rid of Ole would be a big mistake for the board unless we completely capitulate. You may not give a feck about Ole but then a lot do - and certainly more than the board and the owners.
I think someone has you under a spell my friend.
I absolutely disagree, I think fans would much prefer to be proven wrong and watch their team win on a regular basis and watch good football.
I mean, that's just common sense.
Unless of course you guys can show me some genuine examples of "fans" with a post count of over 300, that have ever actually said such a bizarre thing.
Sorry, but
As for the rest, this is a thread about sacking or keeping Ole, so it seems understandable you would evaluate all of his time as manager here. What's the sense in just picking a timeframe that's favourable or even disfavourable to him?
I'm in no way saying we shouldn't focus on positive steps as well. But you shouldn't just ignore mistakes, it all forms part of the picture. It's the 'we've won a few games recently therefore I was always right about Ole being right for the job and anyone who wanted him out is an idiot' sort of argument that is a bit annoying. It might be the case he goes on to be a great manager for us. That doesn't mean it was then wrong for things to be called into question given the circumstances at the time.
It was the 'in a plot twist that should have come as a surprise to absolutely no-one part' about having the right players available. Was a bit overly sarcastic, seeing as some of us have long made the point that heading into the season with that midfield and not replacing Lukaku, using only Rashford and Martial as main strikers, would result in being lower down the table, which really was a plot twist that should have come as a surprise to absolutely no-one.
I don't really think AWB has been a revelation, he is a great defender but i'm not convinced by him going forward. I'm obviously glad the team is doing well in the last few games, let's see how we do til the end of the season.
I think the staunchest people on both sides are as extreme as one another, it's however easier to say "they enjoy us losing" as a reason because it's the negative.
I'm currently "Ole out at the end of the season" but I would love to be converted to "Ole in because we've improved immeasurably and become a consistent team and he looks like a manager capable of challenging for trophies now". I will also happily hold my hand up and admit I was wrong if the latter does happen.
But branding anyone who feels Ole isn't doing a good enough job here based on his results so far as some lunatic who is desperate for him to lose all his games so we can get Poch in or so they can win an internet argument is silly.
It's very annoying how often that has to be written here, but I'm a season ticket holder @DFreshKing, no-one has me under any spell; just check the ticketing thread. I know from first hand experience that a huge amount of people at the ground and in the pubs have wanted Ole fecked off at different parts of the season.
And I know that we have a shit tonne of execs and fans form both the UK and overseas that care not one iota about OGS, they care only about United and winning, and if we finished 8th, they'd happily take a new manager like Poch over "giving a legend another go".
Not to mention the Watford game where we got lucky with some VAR calls plus Deeney deciding he didn't want to score that day. They should have had one or two, our defence was all over the place, but if you look at stats then it'll paint the picture that we're rock solid at the back.
There will always be good managers available. You don't break a cycle that seems to be moving in the right direction because of one man who isn't even a sure thing.
No exactly, you don't, if it's moving the right direction.
Agreed. I couldn’t remember who else we played against but very good point about the Watford game. It reminds me of earlier in the season when we got a bunch of penalties. If we scored the penalty we would win the game, miss and our heads would drop. Same thing during this run.
And it is.
I'll show you the exit.
Honestly I couldn't be bothered to look for them. I already waste too much time on here when I should be working. I could find 300 examples and you still wouldn't buy it because you dont feel that way.
I wouldn't buy it if you found 300 posts?
Obviously I would, because it'd be actual proof. So only one of us here is basing his view on something with zero evidence.
Why will you show me the exit?
You do know my stance on it don't you @lRed I've been pretty fecking clear.
Have you really Tom? I'd love to see some examples and would imagine if there are any, they are wums/newbs
Yes i actually have. This guy for example: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/bruno-fernandes-signed.452709/post-25182651 - I bookmarked this at one point, but im sure there are more with a simple forum search.
Granted i was entirely out of line to presume that the whole Ole-out fanbase wants the team to lose games, there is a prevailing sense that a lot of people who want Pochettino in stongly, and that will not happen if we win games. So it's a bit of a logical conclusion without the words actually being written.
I didn't say you wasn't a season ticket holder - in fact I knew you was as I have seen you post it a few times....but you are not every season ticket holder and you certainly not one of the many that was singing Ole's name this week, id imagine you hated that.
If we finish 8th I will want him replaced too i'm afraid unless we win Europa and we have focused that way.
As for the spell comment it was a pun on your name in the same way I thought yours was on mine but if you were just insulting me then take offence on the comment.
The break did us good. We have improved with Bruno in the side.
More confidence can only help really.
Even Lingard was involved yesterday.
With that said I do not like the overall squad direction we have gone under with Ole.
Hopefully though we will do the right thing this summer under whoever manages us.
More confidence can only help really.
Even Lingard was involved yesterday.
With that said I do not like the overall squad direction we have gone under with Ole.
Hopefully though we will do the right thing this summer under whoever manages us.
So one post? I mean, I get that there will be one or two oddballs but you realise that 923 posters have voted for Ole to be sacked or replaced at the end of the season?
The very fact that you saw fit to bookmark it @Tom Cato is telling in itself.
I'd want to see a bare minimum of 50 posters from those 923 (5%) to even consider it a view held by a section of the fanbase.
I sang Moyes to the end and hated the guy.
United fans are top like that, we sang for Mourinho when he was actively trying to get fired.
The spell joke went right over my head, I'm ashamed, damn it.
Ultimately we agree anyway, it's all about showing some progress to the end of the season, just as he has during February since getting Bruno in.
Oh it's my bad, I've just read some of your posts, one of your posts was confusing but now it's cristal clear.Why will you show me the exit?
You do know my stance on it don't you @lRed I've been pretty fecking clear.
Sorry bud !
My overall worry is if we concede first in any game. It seems a problem for us mentally and structurally on the pitch. We lose our heads and shape and concede the second at the wrong times. I cant remember us coming back after conceding first in a long time. Dont think we've even drawn a game. We have a fantastic record at keeping a lead. Hopefully with fernandes in the team we can create more opportunities than we did before. Ole has done reasonably well but i dont think he can take us to the next level competing with the top 2. I hope I'm proven wrong though.
Why so desperate for Poch? If we finish 4th or 5th, it will be because we will have been the 3rd best team in the league since November. Even the most deluded optimist wouldn't have expected us to better City or Liverpool this season, so isn't establishing ourselves as the 3rd best team in the country by the end of the season pretty much the most anyone could have hoped for? Would you really want to throw it all away and start a new unknown project with a guy who never challenged for the title or won a single trophy with Spurs, despite having a really strong team for a lot of that time? Yes, he built a good team, but he did nothing with it. Ole is building a good team. Give him a chance to utilise it.
Sheffield (A).
This.
It is a worrying observation that fans get excited from a surprising (and rather fortunate win..) at Chelsea, and then beating a team in the bottom three (at home..) , and then beating the awfully-average-teams which reflect the Europa league. Sorry, I do not get overly excited about any of this, because I have seen this, season in, season out... a few results here and there. Nothing more.
Ole has made us expect and accept the average. That is something that I will NEVER celebrate as a Manchester United fan. Our form is not briliiant, nor great.. aside from the first 10 games, when has it been? We are fighting to retain 5th in the most average league in recent memory. Who knows how we will play against Everton, I have no idea.
OGS is like a fan, and he thinks this is good enough. It is not. He has gushloads of cash, all the support (that some managers could only ever dream of...) , and plenty of talent around him. And look where we are. Battling with Sheff United, and way behind Leicester City.
That seems to satisfy some, but not me. If we reach top four, I will be surprised. I cannot see us winning any cups, sorry. Look at what happened when we met a decent side in the cup?
Average performances, and the odd result, or moment of magic, signifies an average team with many (not all..) average players . That's what we are under OGS.
I'm still of the mind that Ole is auditioning to keep his job. Get top 4 and I'll be fine with him staying another season but I'll also be fine with us bringing someone better in.
In fact as i type that, my preference is still to change as at least he'd go with his head held reasonably high. We'd all rather he goes with his dignity intact.
In fact as i type that, my preference is still to change as at least he'd go with his head held reasonably high. We'd all rather he goes with his dignity intact.
I just wanna see improvement rather than blind faith, we did some good things in Summer 2019 but some incredibly stupid things too and it's hardly surprising that we paid for the mistakes until we could correct them in January.
I was absolutely delighted with the January window, getting rid of two back up full backs (Young, Rojo) and replacing them with two positions we desperately needed has seriously balanced out the squad again, and I see less reason for us to now run players into the ground. We can rotate, and we have options from the bench.
So I'm cautiously optimistic now that February isn't another false dawn and that the side can build upon this and finish the season strongly. Only that will keep Ole in the job, I'm absolutely certain of that because as much as Bilbo wants to believe that the club now "get it", the bottom line will always win out and they won't just keep a manager on pure blind faith when there are options like Poch available.
I noticed you ignored the part that said "without context", which pretty much shows you have no interest in a sensible discussion.Sorry, but
Get used to that if you gonna participate in this thread..
It isn't getting (over)excited, for most anyway. It's simply seeing the positives, instead of the negatives after every single match.
Some on here do get overly excited.. and in fact there is nowt' wrong with that, it's a forum, we all express how we wish, and so we should.
But there is a reality here, and I try and judge us over a decent period of time. How will we perform against a very good Europa League team? When we draw someone very good in the FA Cup? When will we go on a consistent run, playing well, against good teams in the Prem?I cannot, honestly, answer any of those questions with real, genuine, expectation and positivity yet under OGS. And he doesn't give me the impression that he knows. That's the worrying thing.
My worry is that his basics are wrong. People will say no he is got it right by winning. You can win even by getting the basics wrong and you can lose by getting the basics right. But it is fundamental that you control the centre space and by playing two midfield players parallel to each other he is failing to do that. You pass one and you pass two. Plus any header or balls kicked out by our CBs will get picked up by them. Any balls or headers kicked out by their Cbs get picked up by them. For some odd reason he has pushed Matic further forward. I hope he puts him in front of the two CBS against Everton so that we do not get unbalanced. Denying space is as important as creating space.
That is the definition of a plastic fan, isn't it?
No that isn't the case - I have never said he is good enough. I am saying he might be. I have said he deserves more time so we can find out. You are the one who says he isn't good enough. I am saying he might be good enough. And here are my main arguments
1) He signs the right players - and there seems to be a plan about who we sign...which we never seemed to have before. He has signed 2 captains in their former club - and we are after Grealish who is the third. He is signing leaders.
2) He makes the group happy - he doesn't criticize players openly like Mourinho did. And he never randomly kicks them out like LvG did. Despite what some reporters claiming to have ITK says - there aren't many players begging to leave the club
3) He gets rid of the players who arent good enough - there are some left, but within 12 months they will be gone as well
4) He seems to a lot smarter tactically than what people claims - his resuts against the big clubs indicate that
5) He gives youngsters chances - that will save us lots of Money, and will make it a lot easier to attract other talent. I know which club I would join as a 16 year old if the choice was United and City (who never give youth a chance)
6) The results haven't been good enough granted- but we are clearly moving in the right direction. I think we won 18 or so of the last 32 matches. That's not good enough to match Liverpool and City of course, but it's proof that it was the first 9 matches of the P.L season that ruined it for us - afterwards we have done quite well.
7) He is getting most of the players to sign new contracts - which was the opposite of what Mourinho did
8) Most of the players are performing better - you could always argue that there are other reasons for that - maybe Fred magically has adjusted, maybe Rashford magically has learned to score goals etc - but the fact is only a few players have deteriorated under OGS - and a lot more have improved.
So you are right about what you say - have the results improved no - has he improved well enough with the squad ? No we probably should have had 4-5 Points more - but with the squad that started the season, and with the injuries we have had . we aren't better. But you also have to be blind to see that things are starting to fall into place. We have a team that is lot stronger than when he started and we will only get better.
For me this is it, these days a manager really is just trying to survive, and he's done enough for that for now. If in a couple years we've spent big and are still only battling for 4th then its a different conversation, but right now we're a better team than when he took over, and he's had 1 full window to do that in. I don't think that's bad.
He's not perfect either. He's really struggled breaking teams down, but maybe Bruno is the key to changing that, we'll have to see.
We also have to accept that he's a young manager inexperienced at this level. He's got a lot to learn, it's just a question of whether or not he can.
Stop trying to be clever. You aren't Stop trying to be right. You aren't. Ole is making us better whether you like it or not.
Just get on board. Support your team. And enjoy watching it get better.
Remember what it's like to to love your club. Next few years have potential. Get on board.
Just get on board. Support your team. And enjoy watching it get better.
Remember what it's like to to love your club. Next few years have potential. Get on board.
It will be assessed in May. CL or a europa win and he should stay.
His transfer business has been very good and improvements of mctominay fred and rashford have been huge. Martial on course for his highest scoring season too.
His transfer business has been very good and improvements of mctominay fred and rashford have been huge. Martial on course for his highest scoring season too.
Agree with this. Some common sense.
Stop trying to tell people what to do. People can think for themselves, regardless of whether you agree with their opinion.
The idea that a team with Lingard, Pereira, matic etc should easily break low blocks down if the manager is clever is stupid.
He signed Bruno at a bargain price to do it. That's how it usually works. Pep gets De Bryune, David Silva and Bernardo Silva to do it. Ole was supposed to get Jesse to do it????
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Like few of us said under a bad spell. Injuries and thin squad makes difference when you have to play some players that doesn’t have that quality.
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