It’s not about world class. Give Roy Hodgson the same signings that Klopp has had and Liverpool won’t be the best team in Europe. Because it’s Hodgson fans will blame Hodgson. If Gerrard was Manager and had those signings the fans wound blame the board, except for Allison and VVD none of pools signings were elite. Klopp gets the best out out them and makes them world class.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Well you if you don't bite back after been bitten, then you're deluded.
They started first, calling people deluded, clueless, why can't I?
Out: Fellaini, Smalling, Sanchez, Young, Rojo, Darmian, Herrera, Valencia, Lukaku
Should be out: Baily, Jones, Lindgard, Shaw, Mata*, Matic*, Pereira
*Good players, just too old
9 players have left, either on permanent or loan and imo about 7 more should be moved on sooner rather than later. Whether you like it or not, trimming the squad had to be done. We have the second highest wage bill in the league and way, WAY too many passengers in the squad. About half of our frankly massive turnover went towards paying wages. Considering the likes of Lindgard, Shaw, Young, Lindelof, Mata and Matic was/is on over 100k/week that not sustainable.
Bruno is now reportedly on 70k/week, which is much more sensible and it seems Woody has actually learned a thing or two
Step 1 on the rebuild always had to be a clearout. When you consider the sheer number of players that needed moving on it was always going to be a difficult process with moving them on and replacing them. You say Ole, gutted the squad, which is right to some extent, but which of these players do you really think would have made a meaningful difference on the pitch?
In any case, this process of replacing players could be done in two ways. Fast and painful (like we have been doing) or gradual or slow where we did it 2-3 players at a time maybe. Cons of doing it fast is of course that it leaves you thin and vulnerable to injuries. The other method makes you less vulnerable but it would also mean the clear out/rebuild would drag on for years and years
Yeah, if you’re unable to see 2 sides to the argument then it’s best to just agree to disagree then & move on.
this us vs them camp is hilarious. We're all Manchester United supporters. You find people who can discuss an argument eloquently and those who do not. I've seen crap being thrown around both by the Ole in and Ole out camp.
Also describing people as a cancer is disgusting and its against the rules as well.
If you think that dismantling a squad without buying players to replace them is a good idea then there's really nothing to add from my part. All I say is that such strategy forces managers to run the players to the ground, opening the gates wide to potential career threatening injuries. I wonder if the likes of you would still debate how great the club was in getting rid of Lukaku if lets say Greenwood had to pick a career threatening injury because we couldn't afford resting him. There's already question marks whether Rashy's injuries will cut his career short at long term but hey, thank god we spared some pennies on the salary bill by sending Sanchez on loan to Inter.
A club should be able to handle a high staff turnover. Juventus does it all the time. For example this season they bought 9 players in (De Ligt, Danilo, Kulusevski, Romero, Pellegrini, Demiral, Rabiot, Ramsay and Buffon) and got rid of 10 players. That's in just 2 windows (summer and january). Sir Alex (United way etc) brought 12 players in between 1988-1990. That's how efficient clubs operate.
Aye, I'll bang on to my death bed about how stupid and naive last Summer was. Claiming "We needed to gut the squad for many reasons, and it was a ballsy move to do so much of it so quickly" I just can't agree with, it was foolish, naive and the only thing that could save it costing us 4th is a cracking January window to fix the mess, partially with band-aids (Ighalo). It has absolutely lead to Rashford, Pogba & McTom playing when they shouldn't.
So I hope Ole goes on and secures 4th and proves to be a very good manager, but much on the pitch this season worries me and our Summer window isn't a get out of jail free card, it was idiotic in my own personal opinion. But, now he has another real chance after learning a lesson or two this window so here's hoping.
I think this is a bit harsh on Ole because the thing with transfers is that it depends on the parties agreeing so at the end of the day it's more about who the club can bring than it is about who the manager actually wants. We know Ole wanted Haaland but we couldn't agree to release clause that would have basically turned us into a stepping stone the moment he fulfilled his massive potential.
Agree with this, a lot of things arent under Ole's control but this is exclusively his. Now that we have added a couple of players in attack we will see after the break whether he can finally unlock deep defenses.
I am in the anti Ole out camp. That's down to his lack of tactics, his naive attitude in the transfer market and his overconfidence on the kids, a big chunk of whom had failed to reach the ridiculously high expectations set (Chong, Garner, Gomes, Tuanzebe ). However let's be clear here to anybody. Its something I would LOVE to be proven wrong about.
A- We desperately need this managerial thing sorted. We're better off with Ole being the right man rather then having to chase shadows again.
B- Ole is one of our own. That means that if he succeeds he won't be fecking off to Real or Barca in few years time.
I also don't blame him on things he has little control upon like for example having to work with an idiot as CEO. I mean why the hell, we always spend the transfer deadline chasing shadows? FFS get the deals done and dusted 2-3 days before so that the manager can plan adequately.
Anyway this post clearly shows that civilised discussions between the Ole-in camp and the Ole-out camp can be done. Sure people flying off the handle sometimes. I surely do. But that can be forgiven considering we're ultimately family (ie Man United family) who only want the good for our team.
Well, getting players in is on the board. Sure, big clubs should be able to handle a high staff turnover, but 10 players in is the exception rather than the rule and unless you sit on a gigantic pile of money, chances are that if you buy 10 players over 2 windows, most of those are going to be cheap squad options rather than first XI players. Right now we need both
The clear out had to happen one way or the other. Or do you think we should have just kept all of this deadwood in case someone picks up an injury? Come on, that absurd. Everyone saw the squad was paper thin going in to this season, but that was a risk we had to take.
Either that or this clear out/rebuild taking several more years
I already said what needed to be done ie we should have hired people who can sustain a high staff turnover. This madness of taking us ages to sell or buy players and our inability to conclude multiple deals at once need to go. Others are able to do so, therefore why can't we?
Its all about being efficient and effective in the transfer market ie by having a plan, identifying players ahead of others and signing them quickly before others notice. Timing is everything. Ole and vidic were days of joining spurs and fiorentina respectively. Fiorentina even tried to sue us for scooping their target so late. Those players changed our history
Juventus are able to do that thanks to their experienced board and DOF. We do not cause the man in charge knows nothing about football and has too much on his plate (ie sponsors etc)
Having a high turnover is good. It keeps players on their toes, it raises standards, it keeps egos and salaries in check and it also allows the club to get rid of players before they are labelled as deadwood.
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Rashford: 20 PL-goals in 92 matches in his united carrier before Solskjær. 21 PL-goals in 41 matches, in the one year Solskjærs been in charge.
Martial: On route to break his season record (11 PL-goals) this season.
Fred: From horrible last year to quality
McTominay: Massive steps in the right direction this season
Greenwood: 10 goals this season, just turned 18.
I really think the players are moving in the right direction under the guidance of Ole, and with the creativity of Bruno added, and hopefully less injuries to key players in the future, it will be very interesting to see what this team can achieve. If we could just ad some width to the squad this summer, I think we'll be ready for a very entertaining 20/21.
This rebuild is going in the right direction, although results may suggest otherwise (because of very thin squad, and essential players injured).
Martial: On route to break his season record (11 PL-goals) this season.
Fred: From horrible last year to quality
McTominay: Massive steps in the right direction this season
Greenwood: 10 goals this season, just turned 18.
I really think the players are moving in the right direction under the guidance of Ole, and with the creativity of Bruno added, and hopefully less injuries to key players in the future, it will be very interesting to see what this team can achieve. If we could just ad some width to the squad this summer, I think we'll be ready for a very entertaining 20/21.
This rebuild is going in the right direction, although results may suggest otherwise (because of very thin squad, and essential players injured).
I’m confused... so are you saying you didn’t expect Rashford to play consistently and deliver this numbers? Don’t give me Mourinho either as Rashford was never a first team player he played 60 minutes maximum if he was lucky.
He was relied on when Zlatan got injured and he delivered then too.
I don't know what confuses you? I'm saying Rashford has had a positive development since Ole arrived. 20 goals in 5217 PL-minutes prior to Ole, 21 in 3376 minutes since Ole became manager. That is a massive improvement. (260 min pr goal vs 160 min per goal)
Forget the stats you are a Manchester United fan like me. We see every game or a lot. Has he improved or has he just been given the opportunity to express himself every week?
He has improved. A lot.
Plus HE was the one who chose to start him.
I'm referring to his post-match comments. He mentioned specifically that fielding a number of young/inexperienced players regularly (as we have done) will lead to inconsistent performances, as in: this is par for the course.
And he has been hampered by injuries himself this season - part of the reason why Liverpool are so far ahead.
Rashford is young. It is difficult to say if his improvement is down to ole or it is down to him growing older and more experienced
No, but that's hardly the point. Replacing a manager mid-season won't necessarily give you a "new manager boost" if the players (as a group) like the (current) manager.
Give the guy some credit for gods sake.
Rashford himself speaks highly of Ole, for what it's worth. As in - does give Ole credit for how he's developed the last year.
But, sure - it could all be coincidence.
The problem with this place at the moment is that everything gets polarized in the extreme. Ole is utterly clueless (not just short of being Pep or Klopp), so he can't possibly do anything right, in any department.
I agree, I am mostly Ole out, but give credit where credit is due. I'm sure Ole could do better with a better squad, but I also believe there are better managers out there who could do a much better job.
Completely agree.
He has shown nothing to indicate that he's one to stick with indefinitely. He's got plenty of work to do before I'll be convinced of anything.
But there are multiple players in our present squad who have done as well as can be expected - and better - under him.
That is a argument I fully respect. Those guys who show up with black paint, whenever there are some white spots around, are clearly agenda-driven. It is possible to think Ole isn't doing a good enough job, and at the same time admit that there are some positives along the way. I, who am a committed Ole in, have no problem admitting he has done mistakes, and will do more mistakes in the future, but still think he could be the right man.
This black and white thinking, without any nuances at all is just plain stupid.
Please tell me if what I said is wrong and how this can be interpreted as pro or anti ole.
amen to that.
You could say that. The numbers don't suggest he was developing in the right direction as he got older, though.
15/16 (his first season): 172 min per pl-goal
16/17: 340 min per pl-goal
17/18: 258 min per pl-goal
18/19 (until Ole took charge): 283 min per pl-goal
19/20: 134 min per pl-goal
Rashy was utilised on the flank by Mou, who preferred Lukaku to him. Then ole kicked Lukaku out from first team and moved him in a central role. That increased his goal ratio. Only recently he is moving him back on the flank were I think he belongs to
Ole deserves merit in terms of improving our dressing room. Mou, LvG and Moyes created a toxic environment there
You forget to say that he is our penalty taker under Solksjaer, without penalties he has more than 200 minutes per goal this season and for the first time he played most of it as a central forward. So he is average striker at best, his position is in 4/3/3 on the left (unfortunatly same as Martials).
Discussing in here
Extremist Pro ole camp says an outrageously biased argument in favour of Ole
Poster A disagrees
Extremist Pro ole camp: you hate the guy ahole
Extremist Anti ole camp says an outrageously biased argument against ole
Poster A disagrees
Extremist Anti ole camp: you blinkered ahole
Extremist Pro ole camp says an outrageously biased argument in favour of Ole
Poster A disagrees
Extremist Pro ole camp: you hate the guy ahole
Extremist Anti ole camp says an outrageously biased argument against ole
Poster A disagrees
Extremist Anti ole camp: you blinkered ahole
Say what? He has played 19 left wing, and 10 center forward this season.
19/20: 19 LW / 10 CF
17/18: 20 LW/ 18 CF
16/17: 24 LW/ 22 CF
15/16: 2 second forward/ 28 CF
(numbers from transfermarkt)
I should take better care when posting something in frustration, and expect it be given the worst possible interpretation. May be a child reading it. Is very possible I suppose. This is the internet, different people with different age, gender, sexuality, prerequisites, etc. Most of them believing they are in the upper end of the bell curve, me included. This is the problem in my opinion. On here and elsewhere. You get the lower end of the bell curve so sure of themselves being correct and having the higher ground, they’ll do anything to prove how right they are. Of course, this being the internet, they are often limited to shouting Nazi, etc. I will think twice next time. Thank you.
Lets get this back to the top of redcafe
Sack...Absolutely 100% yes!
Ole out at the end of the season no matter what happens between now and then.
After being kicked out from cup and 3 games without win in PL support in poll is higher?! Wtf is going on here?
We have a winter break and we should be seriously considering moving him on. We still have a shout at Europa and 4th, but playing like this we won't have a hope.
Incredible that one win against League One bottom-dwellers, another cup win that saw us get knocked out, and one big signing were all it took to get 10% of people to switch their votes away from 'sack'. 
Ah, the old blind loyalty some people have toward a cult leader. Never fails to amaze me.
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