I'm aware of the internet.
I get it, you hate him but you're taking the piss with this last 12 months stuff and averaging stats over a time period where he wasn't playing football for the club for nearly half of it.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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I'm aware of the internet.
I get it, you hate him but you're taking the piss with this last 12 months stuff and averaging stats over a time period where he wasn't playing football for the club for nearly half of it.
Ok just no goals apart from penalties in around 40 games for club and country for the worlds most expensive midfielder that doesn’t know where his own penalty box is.
What’s not to love about him. Anyway wrong thread
How is 4th a lost cause? Your realise the team in 4th are in worse form than us?
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Look at how long it's taken Conte to make Inter title contenders. Or how long it took him to win the league with Chelsea after their worst season ever.
Helps he’s had a board that’s let him sign more players than we have released both times.
I'm sorry but fergiesarmy1 is either too emotional or not that bright. Both go hand in hand most of the time
Fantastic post, explain your reasons for coming to that conclusion.
My posts in here have been 4th isn’t lost, Pogba is not as good as some of you think and Conte has been given an open chequebook at Inter by Italian standards.
I never said 4th is a lost cause. I said we're not firing Ole before it is a lost cause. And even then I'm not certain we will sack Ole this season. As long as the players still believe in him, I'm standing behind him.
I have no way of telling if the players actually believe in him, but it still looks like they're standing behind him. Except for Pogba. Ole's faith in building the team around him might also be the final curtain for Ole.
Read the post carefully again. He never said 4th was lost. And Pogba is not as bad as you think. And whether Conte buys 100 more players, the amount spent won't match up to what we spent in the summer. How is that an open cheque book?
I don’t think Ole is building a team around Pogba at all. By the time he’s back this season be lucky if there are ten games left and I’d put my house on him not being here next season.
There are quite a few posters tonight saying 4th is a lost cause even after Chelsea drew which is what is drawing my “emotion” to that lack of support with 15 games still to go. Conte has signed 9 players already this season and is still looking for more while Ole has lost more players than we have signed and the net spend is about £40m. Pretty sure Conte hasn’t brought any money in.
I actually do not think our fan base has changed much. There has always been fans of certain players and certain managers. These are the vocal people on internet forums. They will not see reason or logic if it hits them on the nose. There was one with the monicker for Moyesforpresident too.
Thats a very sensible post. Cheers
Personally i hope(ed) that Ole would come good and while it is admittedly very cool to have an ex-legend managing us, i dont really think its that bloody important who is managing us. 9/23 wins is pretty fecking bad and i cringe a bit when i think about all the shite matches vs lesser teams. But i think there are some real positives
1) Deadwood gone. I know people love to say "any idiot could have done that", but the three former managers rather added to the deadwood rather than get rid of it. Then in the next sentence many of the same people will shout about Ole leaving us thin. Yes. Yes he did, but it was necessary. Clearing out the squad would always come at a cost
2) Players in have been good. Of course its not the best transfer window ever and as people rightly point out, we overpaid for Maguire, but all of them have been good additions to the squad and more importantly, all of them are young
3) Massive individual improvements in certain players. Rashford, McTomminay, Martial and Fred have improved to some extent.
4) Inclusion of Williams and Greewood into the first XI has been done correctly. Both of them would have gained loads of valuable experience and confidence this season
5) Age profile of the squad is much, much better than it has been in the while. This is in no shape or form a stronger squad than for example the one Jose had when he took us to 2nd, but its much, much younger and most of these players still have their best years ahead of them.
Results have been shite yes, but we are not out of the top 4 race just yet. We have some really tricky fixtures left, but Chelsea arguably has a worse one and their form has plummeted since a flying start. The most important thing though is that the foundations for a new team has been laid this year. Make no mistake, there is still a lot of work to be done with the squad both in terms of adding quality and depth, but we know see the emergence of a new core that might go out and do great things. Next season we could line up like this
GK: Henderson (22)
LB: Williams (19)
CB: Tuanzebe (21)
CB: Maguire(c) (26)
RB: AWB (21)
DM: Fred (26)
DM: McTomminay (22)
AM: Bruno(If the deal goes through) (25)
RW: Greenwood (19)
ST: Martial (24)
LW: Rashford (22)
Considering most players hit their prime years somewhere between 23-27 that is pretty encouraging to look at.
The one problem with this is that it's actually quite an average team. If you're happy with top 6 but hey, the team is full of academy products, then great.
Personally I have higher standards for a club of our stature. That is not going to be a title challenging side.
I think with a year or two, maybe another signing or two, it could be. A lot would depend on how well Bruno settled, if he came. If he could get 10 odd goals from midfield, and throw in a decent number of assists, it could be. Front 3 has already proved it could be enough for a title winning team (they've scored as many goals as Liverpool's soon-to-be title-winning team.
What our team currently lacks is ... goals / creativity from elsewhere. If Bruno brought the goals from midfield, and Fred started to get some (I think he generally has a good shot on him, gets into good positions, so he could), then Williams chimed in with assists, and Maguire with a few from corners, you start to see where it could fit together.
Obviously this is all in a "best-case-scenario" setting. And, is Ole the right man to manage this team? Who knows?
But I think those players have great ability. I don't think it's an average team. If Rashford takes the next logical step, to world class (and remember, he's ahead of names like Henry & Ronaldo at this stage in his career of 200 games), then that's a massive boon.
Because he bought Lukkaku and loan Sanchez from us? I'm not really clued up. Who else did he buy?
Agree with you. That line up is entirely made up of players who can and hopefully will keep getting better.
Can't stand the pomposity of posters who claim that 'I have higher standards'. What does that even mean? What bullsh*t. Nobody would look at Liverpool's current first XI if it was written down two or three years ago and claim that it had a chance in hell of being a title-winning team.
I see where you're coming from but Klopp has always been known as a top coach. Therefore if you showed me their lineup, and said they'd be coached by Klopp, I'd be more likely to think "yeah they might become a top team".
If you showed me their lineup and said it was Hodgson leading them into battle, different story altogether.
Also our club captain but I’m ok with that one but see below, crazy period of incomings.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/inter-mailand/transfers/verein/46
As an Ole-outter, I do agree Ole has brought certain postivies to the club, but I don't agree with some of your points.
1) It's quite a debate on whether Ole really clears the deadwoods. I still think Lukaku and Smalling are at least good enough to be a rotation player for us and they don't belong to the "deadwood" category for me. The real deadwoods such as Jones extended his contract with a pay rise while there was rumors about Lingard given a new contract as well.
Among the 3 former managers, only van Gaal added to the deadwood rather than getting rid of it. Moyes brought in Fellaini and Mata and they were pretty useful in the past few years. Lindelof and Fred, despite poor at the beginning, became automatic starters in the current setup. Pogba is controversial but everyone sees his ability and he is arguably the only world class player in the team.
2) Mostly agree, the signings alone look alright, but I have emphasized yet again the midfield is much more urgent and should be prioritized in the market.
3) Agree.
4) Agree, but I think Greenwood should be given even more chances.
5) I'm actually quite worried about the age profile. Yes young players have plenty of potentials but they are also inexperienced and usually inconsistent. Rashford, Martial and James delivered some brilliant performances but they were literally invisible in some of the games. Henderson's doing a great job at Sheffield but I don't see Ole dropping de Gea in the foreseeable future (not even when he kept making mistakes last season). Most of the time, young players need guidance from experienced players to fulfill their potential and lead them in big games but we lack one. I guess Mourinho wanted Perisic and Willian for a reason but of course Alexis was a disappointment.
Crazy amount of incomings, but the sum (142.29m) is smaller than us (159m)…… In fact, most of their signings are just for the future.
I see your point, but i think we need to be realistic here. Klopp did not turn Liverpool into an unbeatable side overnight, it took 4 years and now they reap the benefits. Of course we should aim higher than top 6 in the long run, but right now i would be much, much happier seeing the likes of Williams, Rashford, McTomminay and Greenwood blossom into great players, than to break the bank for another high profile mercenary that might or might not feck off when someone else comes calling
Any organization has long term and short term goals, in my opinion our long term goals must take precedence over short term goals and imo, these are the most important ones
1) Clear out ALL of the deadwood and/or players that dont want to be here. Its painful and it leaves us thin, something we have experienced now with fatigue and injuries setting in, but paying boatloads of money to players who are not good enough and/or spend most of their time at the physios. This process has started, but there is still a lot more that needs to happen. The likes of Jones, Rojo, Baily, Shaw, Lindgard, Matic, Mata, Pereira etc are barely contributing on the pitch so it feels utterly senseless to keep paying them premium wages just to sit on their arses for most of the season
2) Get in the right players. And i am not talking about just good players, but players with the right age, right attitude and most importantly, they have to want to be here, not because we just happen to hand them a fat paycheck. The Sanchez transfer for example is the worst example. Here we hand out a fat contract to a play that was on the decline and Jose himself said that Sanchez was never happy here, and never settled. I mean, what the feck where we thinking?
3) Fix the supporting structure of the club. Our academy seems to finally be doing well again under Butt, but i still think our scouting and medical/physical departments needs to improve. Liverpool for example hardly had any injuries last year, and they hardly had any this year, despite playing loads of football and despite Klopp demanding they play with an extreme intensity. This is no accident, they are doing something very right, while we apparently are doing something very wrong
4) Get our finances in order. This is closely connected to #1, but under financial genuis Ed our wage bill have ballooned to behemoth proportions while we in no shape or form has the squad to match it. Christian Eriksen, one of the best #10's in the league for example is at 75,000/week, Jesse fecking Lindgard is at 100,000/week. Its absurd.
So, yeah, the team i posted is not a league winning outfit, but its a promising young core with their best years ahead of them. If we manage to purge the squad of all the pretenders and passengers, get our wage bill down to a more sensible, then we can think about adding players of superstar quality who can help us mount a league challenge.
I know your stance on Ole, and its prefectly understandable. Nine wins by January is fecking bad, but i am fully on board with the long term decisions he has made thus far
I’m sure everyone forgets our outgoing transfers when it comes to finding a reason to have a pop
Our net spend this season should be an embarrassment to the club given our situation over the last few years.
Ole has shown for me and others in many games this season that he might be capable enough of managing this side to somewhere near its potential. The way we have set up the team in a lot of matches against the better sides shows that he and staff are not complete idiots. There is some tactical nous involved in the way that United play. You wont agree of course, but in my mind at least that is indisputable, but many people see things differently. A couple of days ago (mIght have been you or Regulus Im not sure) someone stated that long balls pumped forward to our strikers is 'literally our only game-plan' which was quickly conceded when presented with the fact that United are 20th in long balls played.
This team have won against City, won against Leicester, won against Spurs, won against Chelsea. You don't do that if you don't know how to analyse an opponent and set up your team to counteract that and win those matches. In contrast we've failed to beat some teams we should be beating easily, and that's down to consistency in performance as much as it is tactics.
No point going down the road of putting Ole in the same company as the likes of Klopp and Pep - its futile - but its worth making the point that we've seen signs of tactical ability here. Klopp and Pep have had the time to realise their plan both on the training pitch and (crucially) with the players they needed to make that happen. If Ole gets his creative midfielder(s) and some depth & leadership in this squad to guard against inconsistency and fatigue, then IMO we are not yet at the point where we have to rule out his chances of realising the potential we could have
He spent less than us looking at that.
Well considering about £80m of his spend came to us that isn’t really accurate is it. You know if you stick £140 on a bet and only get £100 back you haven’t spent £140?
Looks like Inter recouped about £30m btw
Honestly, quite a few posters on here (not me though) predicted Klopp would do miracles at Liverpool. How his gegenpress football would do extremely well in the Premier League. Klopp was an established manager and widely respected in the football world, long before he joined Liverpool. That he has done well there isn't a shock, good managers tend to do well, odd huh?
Not disagreeing, but it still took time and investment. They went up a level, actually several levels, when they added VVD & Allison to the team. My position on Ole has always been just that. Give the guy a fighting chance to show what he can do here. With the injuries and squad issues we've had this season I believe we are doing okay - maybe better than okay actually - and with full consideration that this was a season that (IMO) the clubs expectations were fairly low. If he can get us back into CL football that would for me be every bit as impressive as Jose finishing 2nd, even more so considering that we are doing it with a squad that Ole or whoever else can build upon. Even if he doesn't, let him fill the obvious gaps in the squad and then see how we look by Christmas.
How will Maguiere (who is average now and 26 years of age) get better?
On other hand. You need somebody to make them better. Its not just that they play over 40 matches a season. They need proper preparations and knowledge of tactics that they have been training. Somwbody to motivates them to work harder. Is it this manager capable of?
Not in the slightest.
That’s a good look and I think perfect for a high level manager to take over and get us towards a title challenge.
Obviously we would still need to improve the first team. 3 world class players should do it; if we keep Pogba then just two. Easier said than done as world class talent would rather be elsewhere than here. But we still pay stupid wages so it can be done. We just need a manager and a director who can sell the right project.
Just to clear this up. You keep mentioning Klopp and I take it you are using his planning as an example and you don’t actually believe.. as you haven’t actually said it. That this long term plan comes into fruition I.e. title challenge and winning it with Ole been giving more time that past this summer?
If a football club rested every player carrying a knock they would change 10 players every game. He had a training session the day before and said he could play - the Medical team didn't find anything. What was he supposed to do ?
I think Ole and the coaches have worked miracles to get us where we are at the moment, 5th in Prem, and still in all the cup competitions, with the lack of investment in the summer (how some posters can blame Ole for not signing another striker and a couple more midfield players is beyond me, I would imagine that he had given a list of players required to Ed, and then waited for him and Judge to get them done, which they didn't).
There is no proper coaching apparently, how people know that is ridiculous, do they have access to Carrington? Then they have no idea what goes on. The coaches have obviously worked with Fred, AWB (still more work required with his passing and attacking skills, but he is forward a lot more now), Rashford, Greenwood, Williams.
Tacticly inept is another one. We have set up well against the so called top clubs, beating them all (Chelsea twice), and most of those are without our 'star' player, and a threadbare squad. Accept that against the so called lesser or poorer teams we have struggled, and this again because we have little creativity in the team without Pogba. Mata has come back in and done well, and perhaps Ole could and should have used him more against these type of teams, but again many posters were livid that he was given a two year contract, and we should have got rid, but class is permanent, even if legs are not. I am a Manchester United fan/supporter, not an Ole fan (although I like the guy), but give the man a chance to build something here, there is no guarantee that ANY manager coming in will improve the team/squad while we have such an inept idiot in charge of the transfer budget (Ed).
There is no proper coaching apparently, how people know that is ridiculous, do they have access to Carrington? Then they have no idea what goes on. The coaches have obviously worked with Fred, AWB (still more work required with his passing and attacking skills, but he is forward a lot more now), Rashford, Greenwood, Williams.
Tacticly inept is another one. We have set up well against the so called top clubs, beating them all (Chelsea twice), and most of those are without our 'star' player, and a threadbare squad. Accept that against the so called lesser or poorer teams we have struggled, and this again because we have little creativity in the team without Pogba. Mata has come back in and done well, and perhaps Ole could and should have used him more against these type of teams, but again many posters were livid that he was given a two year contract, and we should have got rid, but class is permanent, even if legs are not. I am a Manchester United fan/supporter, not an Ole fan (although I like the guy), but give the man a chance to build something here, there is no guarantee that ANY manager coming in will improve the team/squad while we have such an inept idiot in charge of the transfer budget (Ed).
Which PL team spent the most money this Summer?
Either us or Aston Villa imo. Close call.
He still didnt spend a load. Almost his entire transfer budget was spent on a united reject that our fans mocked for being a poor overall footballer.
I really wish people would give up on this one regardless of whether they're Ole in or Ole out. We had 5 points from 4 games with Pogba starting at the beginning of the season, lots of people arguing that our midfield balance sucked with him and McT as the two midfielders, and when he briefly came back from injury we couldn't beat the mighty Rochdale with him in the side (granted he wasn't 100% and was injured...well done for playing him coaching team).
I think Pogba is a world class player in a certain set up but I genuinely believe we'd be defensively worse with him in a 2 man midfield. Martial was a much bigger miss earlier in the season and I think Rashford will be too. Pogba is just something of a non-entity at this point who we all know is going to be sold at the end of the season anyway.
They have spent more money than Manchester United this season, it’s a fact and they don’t generate anywhere near what us or a lot of premiership teams do. Also “free” transfers for the likes of Godin and loan deals for a certain Sanchez start to rack up in real money even if there is no transfer fee plus I don’t know how £80m on other players means all his budget went on Lukaku? Are you being deliberately argumentative on this point or just not actually that well informed on their spending this year?
Predictable and repetitive response to any positive post on here. Ole isn't good enough. Ole will kill the potential etc etc. What am I supposed to say to that? I don't agree with you
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