So if we won no trophies and didn’t get top 4 would you keep or sack ? Seems to be the way we’ve worked for the last 6 years
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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This is probably the last manager who will put the club before himself. Might as well give him some time to show you what he can do.
I had this squad eight on the table, so he is over preforming the way i see it. Realistic expectations fellas! This is a squad who needs time to grow.
I had this squad eight on the table, so he is over preforming the way i see it. Realistic expectations fellas! This is a squad who needs time to grow.
Might as well give me a go if it doesn't work out with Ole. Reckon you could have a fair crack at it if I fail. The team isn't winning so we might as well give anyone claiming to have ideas
No. There's no waiting for things to go wrong when we're talking about these things. You have to be reasonably certain on a bet before investing time and money. 'Might as well' and 'give him a go" aren't wise
Well. if you want to be wise, then do some proper research if you are a fan. Then look at what he did at Utd when taking his badges. Look at who he studied what with. Please stop with the "patterns of play nonsense". Patterns can only evolve around what is in front of you. It is about rythm and getting a core of players to know each other. Read his ueafa pro licence exams. Read his thesis after working and studying with Klopp. Do some in depth reasearch about what he did at Molde (there is actually a very good thread on it at this site) . Do some actual research about what went on in Cardiff at his tenure. Get the details. The details some of the fans know, AND the club know. To many on here pretending to know everything, and they truly dont. Ole has a very intelligent football mind, and every quote you manage to dig up will confirm that. Give the boys the time they need!
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Ok sure you must be joking.
Spurs were a total mess when Poch took over. Even worse than the situation Ole found here.
Also he made the current Spurs players world class.
Now dont tell me that e.g. Eriksen was top class player etc. Because a lot of top class players arrived at Old Trafford and we all know how that turned out
Didn't say anything about patterns...unless..you went through my posting history didn't you? At least you live up to your post of doing rigorous research. Don't really want to go into a full debate about Ole's tactical ideology right this moment but you don't need research beyond watching every match to know he doesn't have a highly sophisticated one like Pep, Klopp and the other top European managers. Further research would probably tell one he didn't use one at Cardiff either
Ole is making Rashford and Martial world class at the rate they are going now. And developing Greenwood and James rapidly as well. So he can definitely do what Poch did at Tottenham atleast.
W
You talk about patterns and tactics and ideologies and say ole doesn’t have one apart from counter attacking. I always laugh when I read that from posters.
(Apart from) - why should it be apart from counter attack? That is his current ideology and tactics. A tactic that has won many trophies for many managers and teams through out history. Some recent examples being Atletico Madrid and inter Milan under mourinho and even real Madrid’s la liga win under mourinho.
Counter attack is also a tactic and strategy that is Historically proven and even sometimes more beautiful to watch . Highlights of United’s best goals are often made up of our blistering counter attacks that involved Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez etc.
Let me repeat this. Ole as a clear tactic and style of play which he employs partly because of the players at his disposal. The tactic is called Counter attack. And we have a seen it work to devastating effect several times since he came to the club. Now what he needs to do is bring in some more creative player who can unlock low blocks. But to say Ole doesn’t have a visible style of play is just pretending to be blind.
You talk about patterns and tactics and ideologies and say ole doesn’t have one apart from counter attacking. I always laugh when I read that from posters.
(Apart from) - why should it be apart from counter attack? That is his current ideology and tactics. A tactic that has won many trophies for many managers and teams through out history. Some recent examples being Atletico Madrid and inter Milan under mourinho and even real Madrid’s la liga win under mourinho.
Counter attack is also a tactic and strategy that is Historically proven and even sometimes more beautiful to watch . Highlights of United’s best goals are often made up of our blistering counter attacks that involved Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez etc.
Let me repeat this. Ole as a clear tactic and style of play which he employs partly because of the players at his disposal. The tactic is called Counter attack. And we have a seen it work to devastating effect several times since he came to the club. Now what he needs to do is bring in some more creative player who can unlock low blocks. But to say Ole doesn’t have a visible style of play is just pretending to be blind.
Let me clarify, I would rather he be the manager until the end of the season than sack him now and disrupt whatever he is trying to do. What I was trying to say is people who think he is going to be successful are all based on the fact that he has a long term plan. And no one ( including ole) knows what that plan is unfortunately!
Give me a break mate. Rashford and Martial wide and away to be considered world class at this time. The same goes for Greenwood and James.
If a team comes asking for one of those guys they will be paying for potential not because they are world class players, but cause they may be.
What Poch did at Totenham is too much for a manager of Ole's ability.
I think that you among many in the caf choose to back a manager just cause he's a legend. You should reconsider some thing there. We are Man United not Ole FC.
Nepotism leads to terrible things
I think he needs better coaches. That's the most important thing he can do.
Ok I should have been slightly more specific - but if you read the entire context, it should be " in his first season. "
He has not improved any side in his first season - and that was my argument with Pochettino. Some people here expect Pochettino to do a much better job than OGS, but all evidence suggests Pochettino needs time to improve his clubs.
Although, I hope for United to in in a better place in 5 year time than Tottenham after 5 years with Poch.
What did Poch do at Spurs? And what brings you to the conclusion that Ole isn’t capable of doing the same?
51.0% want him sacked as we go into 2020.
So the reason we can't unlock low blocks is strictly personnel related? Not coaching related aspects that are clearly missing every week like poor player movement and an inability to even execute basic one-two passing moves? Not even partly due to these reasons? Well I Seriously disagree. There's a reason our low block unlocking issues remain even when Pogba, one of the most creative CMs, is fit. This problem we cant buy our way out of, maybe unless we buy Ole some expensive assistant coaches and quality backroom staff to supplement this weakness.
Sir. I suggest you do a watch back from a few games. Im not sure what low block means, but probably it means teams pushed back from our possession and domination. And teams gifting possession from lack of ability.. Well, you talk about movement. You will find the same movement from our team and front three as you will find from Man City and Liverpool. What you wont find is the amount of long range and switch side passes.
I recognize your right to believe this has anything to do with coaching. Even with the manager on record in most pressers addressing the need to be more expressive and taking chances with passes.
Take Liverpool. They do score a lot of goals doing transition. Meaning, they win back the ball and move it quickly to the front three. Often it is the back four playing through and we have what the experts of the CAF call counter attacking. Most of their goals are scored this way, (Or with tap ins)..
If you compare, you wont find any more "patterns of play" watching Liverpoool than Utd.
If you watch Leicester you will see the same. If you watch Chelsea you will see the same. But if you watch Man City you will see something different.
This is down to some extreme individual skills, and that enable them to keep possession like no one else.
But what seperate Man Utd from this lot is consistency and tempo in passing. Lately it has become better, but it is still inconsistent. But movement? NO, it is still the same. And it is the same with all teams mentioned.
People keep on harping about pattern of play. It dosent exist! Patterns develop from what is in front of you. The only pattern is action/reaction.
This is why kids at academies have what they call "cognitive training" Its about learning to READ the game and creating unbalance through triangles. Not memorizing patterns.. What moron brought this pattern thing up??
If anything. Even the last couple of games Pogba played. He can unlock with his passes. Just like Liverpool playing longballs from their defense to their front three. Of course it is about creativity and ability.. And no, you cant coach that to adults. They either have it, or they dont..
Wtf..
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On this site, yes. In the stadium the story is something else. And the players? They are all behind him! And the club? They are all behind him to..
The strange thing is - after picking up 13 Points from our last 6 games with wins against City and Spurs - the sack percentage has gone up.
It's gone back up a bit post Watford but the sack % was much higher before the Spurs game.
Firstly read carefully and understand before you reply. I said Ole is “making” them world class. He is still in the process. They are not there yet but it’s a fact Rashfords numbers are now on par with the best in the league. With Martial not far behind either. So yes at this rate they will soon be considered to be amongst the best in the league. And I didn’t say James and Greenwood are world class. Once again read carefully. ole has improved them as players. James is having his best career return even though he has moved up a league. Greenwood is being developed rapidly and at this rate will score even more goals than Rashfords best season under Mourinho/Van Gal. Now that’s what a coach does develop and improve players.
Mctominay
Fred
James
Rashford
Martial
Greenwood
Williams
2ndly your assumption that I back Ole because he is a legend just comes from your own imagination. I couldn’t really care though. But I will make it clear why I back Ole. I chose to back Ole because he is actually the only manager since Fergie left who has shown he has a plan and knows what he is trying to achieve even when results aren’t going his way. And I am not blind to the issues he has faced so far which has in my opinion really affected results so far. But he has yet still produced respectably and I can only imagine how much better he will do when certain areas in the team are addressed in the transfer market.
He is the only coach since Fergie who has actually played quick attacking football. Although not consistently, he is a actually trying unlike some coaches we have had in the past. A proper 10,right winger and more squad depth and I see this manager and team going places.
Ole is doing so much and if you can’t see that. Your agenda is driven by something huge and only known to you.
Yes in this current team it’s personnel related. How many times do we see lingard running with the ball like a headless chicken into opponents. How many times do we see Pereira fail to see a pass to a player in a goalscoring position or key area when we can all clearly see the right pass that should have been made? How many times do we see an over weighted through pass or even failure by any of the players apart from pogba to simply do a dink pass over a defense. Our inability to break down teams who sit back is 90% personnel related. The other 10% involves, confidence and other mental factors.
Generally outperformed bigger and wealthier clubs in the league with a netspend of 15 mil and made a CL final despite injuries to key players like Kane. It's maybe a bit early to say Ole can't do the same, but look at how much we have spent and we've only made top 4 twice since Saf.
Can't see the point in sacking him. He's changed the way we play, changed personnel , another manager will just put his way of doing things , go backwards further. If it's still the same this time next year, results up and down, then I can see the board looking else where.
If creativity is something that can be coached then Sir Alex would never have brought Scholes back from retirement and would have 'coached' Cleverly to do it.
What is it that you think separates the greatest of players from the rest? Not every aspect of football can be coached into a player.
It's quite clear to me from the last couple of cameos that had Pogba been 'fit', 'mentally ready' or whatever the feck the excuse is in the last 3 months we'd would be comfortably sitting in the top 4 by now.
Just changed my vote from sack to keep.
Think I may have voted after the Watford game, but as has been mentioned there is a definite plan and strategy.
The fact that apart from Leicester/City and "them", the rest of the top teams are showing the same inconsistency.
Progress has been a bit up and down but we seem to be going in the right direction.
Ole is bringing the age of the squad down and trying to make us a team that plays with pace.
A fit and motivated Pogba would be a huge asset though.
Think I may have voted after the Watford game, but as has been mentioned there is a definite plan and strategy.
The fact that apart from Leicester/City and "them", the rest of the top teams are showing the same inconsistency.
Progress has been a bit up and down but we seem to be going in the right direction.
Ole is bringing the age of the squad down and trying to make us a team that plays with pace.
A fit and motivated Pogba would be a huge asset though.
Don’t get me wrong, Poch did well with Spurs and I think he is a good manager, but what he did is weirdly exaggerated on here.
Reaching top 4 (and even a decent cup run, if things were to go our way) is by no means beyond our capabilities as we stand now.
What? Even Ole uses the term patterns and how we practice them. It's refers to the totality of a coach's playbook and stretches across all sports in one term or another (American football, basketball, hockey). You seem to have some personal misunderstandings about how offensive plays are drilled.Sir. I suggest you do a watch back from a few games. Im not sure what low block means, but probably it means teams pushed back from our possession and domination. And teams gifting possession from lack of ability.. Well, you talk about movement. You will find the same movement from our team and front three as you will find from Man City and Liverpool. What you wont find is the amount of long range and switch side passes.
I recognize your right to believe this has anything to do with coaching. Even with the manager on record in most pressers addressing the need to be more expressive and taking chances with passes.
Take Liverpool. They do score a lot of goals doing transition. Meaning, they win back the ball and move it quickly to the front three. Often it is the back four playing through and we have what the experts of the CAF call counter attacking. Most of their goals are scored this way, (Or with tap ins)..
If you compare, you wont find any more "patterns of play" watching Liverpoool than Utd.
If you watch Leicester you will see the same. If you watch Chelsea you will see the same. But if you watch Man City you will see something different.
This is down to some extreme individual skills, and that enable them to keep possession like no one else.
But what seperate Man Utd from this lot is consistency and tempo in passing. Lately it has become better, but it is still inconsistent. But movement? NO, it is still the same. And it is the same with all teams mentioned.
People keep on harping about pattern of play. It dosent exist! Patterns develop from what is in front of you. The only pattern is action/reaction.
This is why kids at academies have what they call "cognitive training" Its about learning to READ the game and creating unbalance through triangles. Not memorizing patterns.. What moron brought this pattern thing up??
If anything. Even the last couple of games Pogba played. He can unlock with his passes. Just like Liverpool playing longballs from their defense to their front three. Of course it is about creativity and ability.. And no, you cant coach that to adults. They either have it, or they dont..
Wtf..
Creativity isn't what is coached here. What coaching does is maximise the opportunities for creativity to shine. Think KDB in Pep's system. He isn't passing to himself after all. Same way one ball playing defender didn't revolutionise how we played from the back like people swore it would. As for Pogba in our system some of us haven't forgotten we had started dropping points when Pogba was playing. Neville was on his back and Schmeichel called him the "problem child of the team". We didn't look top of the table material
Outperformed wealthier and bigger clubs than the losers that Spurs were with one of the lowest transfer spend net in the league. He totally changed the level Spurs are. The "Lads it's Totenham" teamtalk didn't apply anymore. Developed players that he bought cheaply and not 80m deadwood so so slow, that can't turn, can't win a header or keep a clean sheet. Made them world class and you can see that by simply searching for the most valuable teams worldwide. Established a proactive style of play that presses the opposition and the players know how to move the ball between the lines when they get it. They don't give the ball to Martial or Rashford (Eriksen or Ali) and prey that they can produce something good.
Don't start telling me that we don't have a no10 cause all the top coaches at least in their first year they play with what they have. If you dont have a no10 then change the fecking formation and don't play with a no10. Van Gaal ,that maybe wasn't the right fit for United but he was a top coach, at the World Cup when Strootman got injured before the start of the tournament, adapted another formation and another style, even though most if not all games that Netherlands played in the qualifiers were a very possession based style with Strootman as a key player.
I insist that Ole isn't capable of doing the same and the time that he is here proves it. One freaking year and he still doesn't know how to unlock defenses. His only tactic is "Hit them at the counter". And when things don't go his way, ah well " Small margins". It's really ironic that most fans complained about Mourinho's tactics but accept the ultra shitshow that Ole is giving us week in week out. What happened to "We are United, we don't play defensive football...blah blah".
So much rubbish in this post that I don't know where to start.
"...I chose to back Ole because he is actually the only manager since Fergie left who has shown he has a plan and knows what he is trying to achieve even when results aren’t going his way..."
Really ? Enlighten the rest of us with the plan and what he is trying to achieve that top coaches that have won Champions Leagues and domestic leagues in all the countries that have managed like Mourinho and Van Gaal were so ignorant and didn't know where to start. But Ole that gave Molde the mighty Norwegian league and had Cardiff relegated knows better of course and he has a plan.
"...Quick attacking football.. "
Yeah sure, keep dreaming mate. Quick maybe, attacking not even close. Deep defending and after we get the ball we have a long pass across the field to target Martial, Rashford or James. Doesn't sound any different than what Toni Pulis and Big Sam's teams are producing. I don't know how old are you but this is not attacking football.
..."He is the only coach since Fergie who has actually played quick attacking football. Although not consistently, he is a actually trying unlike some coaches we have had in the past..."
Quick attacking football not consistently. Van Gaal had a period in his first year March or April if I remember correctly that won City, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton(?) with the best football we have seen in years. But in the end fell flat. Same goes for Mourinho, he had his moments but again fell flat style-wise.
"..Ole is doing so much and if you can’t see that. Your agenda is driven by something huge and only known to you.."
I can see that he's doing so much like keeping players happy. After all that was his goal when he took over A YEAR AGO put the smiles back on peoples faces. Right?
My agenda is the love for the club that I've been worshipping for the best part of 40 years. As I said previously I support Man United not Ole, Scholes, Neville or any other former player that wants some of his buddy take over the club. Especially Scholes has been disgusting the way he slaughtered Mou and Van Gaal but in Ole's case it's the players that aren't any good.
2 Quick questions:
How did Spurs do in Pochettinos 2 first seasons in charge ?
If he was such a brilliant manager - why did Spurs completely fall apart in his last 12 months ?
Ive never thought its beyond our capabilities, but we barely ever make top 4 despite our spending.
Why is always this man coming up as something we should be aiming at? 0 trophies after he has been a manager for 11 years in big leagues (including having inherited stars and internationals at Tottenham). Sacked from 2 of 3 clubs. He is good manager but this worship of a man is beyond anything.
The problem with anti-Ole brigade is not performences or results. It is some personal thing. He is not "cool" enough for some. Today, however it goes against Arsenal, there will be people coming in here slamming him in every way they can. We are showing progress and future looks better and better from where we were 12 months ago.
Yes.... because people in the stadiums don’t leave their personal opinion of the manager aside and just go to try and enjoy the match and support the club.
How do you know what the players think?
As for the board. It’s laughable that they are mocked for not having a clue about football, but then people use the board’s support of Ole as some kind of justification for Ole being good.
On the first day of the new year, we have the winner for the dumbest comment of the year award.
Impressive, he must have won a lot.
True, but that’s been due to various problems at the club over the last few years, a terrible transfer policy being one of them.
I've been avoiding commenting in this thread as its become and echo chamber, but this has to be one of the most stupid, yet repeatedly peddled lines about people who don't want Ole in charge.
For the most part the reasoning for wanting to get a new manager are objective reasons and put the club first. Yet all I ever see, and you're one of the worst for it, is to claim it's a personal attack in Solksjaer and anyone who wants him gone has something against him.
This couldn't be further from the truth. I know I've made statements and have read similar ones multiple times that state they'd love Ole to turn this around and leave half of this forum with egg on their face so it clearly isn't a personal issue as you seem to regularly allude to.
This subject isn't black and white, despite your insistence on trying to making as simple as that and there are many shades of grey on both sides of the argument.
Also your mental gymnastics to discredit Poch while trying to show why we should stick with Solksjaer betrays you and end up making you look like a fanboy rather than a rational, objective poster.
Did it touch a nerve? Did I just said something that may have touched a little bit of the truth? I'm not botherd at all. Just look around at this forum and you'll see what has been written about Solskjaer.
You can call it stupid but that is truth. If you have been on this forum you should by now have seen posters even wanting us to lose just to get rid of Solskjaer. People have called him cluless, deluded and everyhing from heaven to earth. There are every kind of excuse why we should get rid of him. People even talking about players that don't want to join us because of him. Are those obective reasons you are talking about? I agree that the subject is not black and white but you just have to see some matchthreds and other to check what people write.
I'm not discrediting Poch. I'm just telling the fact. If you don't believe in it check for yourself.
2nd in the form table despite a makeshift midfield, most expensive player in our history seemingly deciding when he wants to play, well positioned in the europa, semis of the league cup, fa cup to come and a new transfer window open where he has stated he has money available and people still want him fired for god knows who
https://uk.soccerway.com/national/england/premier-league/20192020/regular-season/r53145/
https://uk.soccerway.com/national/england/premier-league/20192020/regular-season/r53145/
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