Yes, That's us. Sack the manager is getting to be our way now.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Under Moyes we were losing games without even looking like we were trying. The results were not getting better. We'd have the odd 4-0 win but we still had a lot of very good players at the time. You have to remember Moyes took over a team that strolled to winning the league the year before, and had them in midtable. I think it would be harsh to expect him to improve the team but it's beyond argument that he was making it a lot worse.
Under LVG I thought it was pretty well documented we agreed a deal with Jose some months before the end of the season, at around the time we had something like 3 wins in 16 games and had about 5 games in a row where we couldn't even score. Van Gaal had 2 full years and was given a second season due to the improvement at the end of the first. In his second season we went backwards. It did pick up a bit towards the end with Rashford's introduction but again it was very hard to see what direction we were supposed to be going in. The standard of football had gotten progressively worse.
Mouirnho it just got to a point where it wasn't even a decision. It's bizarre we waited as long as we did. I kind of backed him until the end but more in hope because I didn't see who we could get to replace him.
I'd actually want Ole to be given more patience than either LVG or Moyes as long as things don't go completely tits up, as he's the first post Fergie manager we've had who seems to actually have a long term plan. I'm not convinced either way still but the football and results ARE getting better, we have a young team so there will also be natural improvement. We have consistency in terms of team selections. Players who do their job well are trusted. Players who don't, aren't. It all sounds simple but the previous three managers seemed to really struggle with stuff like this. I mean Van Gaal sort of had a plan but it mostly just involved saying "philosophy" and "process" a lot, and asking the team to play possession football at the same time as constantly hoofing it to Fellaini.
The thing is there will always be bad days or off performances. Watford had just changed manager and were fired up. It's the sort of thing that happens...look at their other recent performances. It's a bad time to play them and we weren't quite at it.
The other side of it is that obviously the improvement needs to continue, as even our more recent form isn't good enough long term. It might be good enough for top four if keep it up but even that's no guarantee. I do think people need to not get so stuck up on the top four aspect this season though. We could be really good for the second half of this season and if Chelsea, Spurs, etc. pick up there's still no guarantee where we'll finish.
I'd just be looking more in general at how we are doing. At the moment it's clear the performances and results are going in the right direction, so although it's still fair to criticise, in terms of Ole keeping the job I don't even really understand why it's being questioned (well I do...it's because a bunch of children on here are determined to act like spiteful idiots due to Pochettino not being our manager). If at the end of the season, or later in the season, the results and performances have swung back the other way, I think then you start having to ask the question again.
If we sign players obviously you'd expect them to improve us, although I wouldn't hold my breath about getting the right players in January.
The only top managers around are Klopp and Guirdiola and we haven't let either slip by since Ole has been put in charge. The one who keeps being mentioned on here has actually failed and been sacked from his job, despite having better players than Ole and being under less pressure and expectation than he would be here. It's amazing I still have to keep pointing this out really.
If Pochettino would be such a great manager for a team like United, why do I feel more concerned about Spurs under Mourinho than I did under Pochettino?
The problem with adopting views like this is that it's not in Ole's control how many points we need to get top 4, and at present if you replaced him with some kind of Sir Alex/Klopp/Guirdiola hybrid robot, with the squad we have it would still be no guarantee.
It's pretty unfair to set unrealistic goals at this point. If we sacked Ole today and got Pochettino, you wouldn't be calling for Pochettino to be sacked if he didn't meet the same criteria.
I'd expect us to carry on improving obviously, and if not finish 4th to at least be in contention, but I don't like all the agenda arguments on here. Ignoring improvements and highlighting any possible flaw. Or even just making stuff up "Oh Ole doesn't even have a clue how to coach players"...Rashford has 16 goals this season, playing in a role Ole has coached him to play in, making runs and taking up positions he'd been coached to do. The midfield takes up higher positions than previously. Martail no longer spends 90% of the game lingering out wide. You see the same players take up the same positions or runs to enable them to receive the ball. The players are obviously being coached. It's just an example of how ridiculous some people are willing to be, for some reason.
It's gotten really childish on here. I actually enjoy watching us play this season when we play well, and am enjoying that when we play well is becoming more regular. There is still plenty to moan about and I do my fair share of it, but very time I come on here it puts a massive downer on everything because there's constantly a bunch of children inventing reasons why we should sack our manager. I can understand it happening out of frustration when we lose a game, but you come on here after a win and it's the same.
We fail to sign an unproven 19 year old who's scored some goals in the Austrian league and people think our manager should be sacked as a result. We beat Burnley away and our manager should be sacked because he subbed Luke Shaw on near the end. It's all based on the Pochettino love in, but it doesn't even make any sense since most of the criticisms are things you could just as easily apply to Pochettino at Spurs anyway. I don't know what planet some people are on. Ole has a long way to go if he's going to prove to be a succes but at least, at the moment, he is going in the right direction.
Anyway that was a pretty pointless rant that had little to do with your post. I apologise.
I am not going to excuse the performance against Watford, that was simply not good enough - but some people seem to think that losing to Watford is as low as you can go in the P.L
Reality is - on their day (which they have had many of recently - including Liverpool away) - Watford have a lot more quality than teams like Villa, Southampton, Norwich etc - I really can't say how they ended up where they are, but we are now beginning to see that Watford have a decent side. Destroying Villa with 10 men, unlucky to lose to Liverpool, beat us. Watford imo could easily end up top-10 despite their horrible start to the season.
Reality is - on their day (which they have had many of recently - including Liverpool away) - Watford have a lot more quality than teams like Villa, Southampton, Norwich etc - I really can't say how they ended up where they are, but we are now beginning to see that Watford have a decent side. Destroying Villa with 10 men, unlucky to lose to Liverpool, beat us. Watford imo could easily end up top-10 despite their horrible start to the season.
I don't think averaging 2 points a game is unreasonable, he's done in over the last 6 games. If you don't set goals, how to you measure progress/success?
I personally have no agenda here bar wanting what's best for united. I can't comment on his individual coaching, as you say rashford has scored 16, so he must be getting something right.
I hope Ole proves all the doubters wrong. I love him as a player and no matter what he'll always be an icon to me
I am a “newbie” but I’ve been on and off the caf for years. It’s not saying much but I think this is the most sensible post I’ve ever read.
When we had Moyes, LvG and Mourinho, we were winning games sure but the apathy even after a victory was damning. I wasn't even cheering goals at one point, the football was that bad. And losses were just met with a blind resignation.
At least we're playing some good stuff now. The only thing going against Ole at the moment is the inconsistency. Sort that out and we're flying. We know signings are going to come and our managers are always backed. So for those reasons I'm happy to give Ole more time.
People thinking just changing the manager will solve all our problems are deluded. If there was such a thing as a nailed on appointment, managers would be at clubs for 10 years or more on average. Every appointment is a gamble. Successes are very few and far between. We saw how Mourinho mismanaged Pogba, Shaw, Martial, Fred etc., whilst persevering with the likes of Matic and Fellaini. Spurs are welcome to him. They will find out soon enough.
At least we're playing some good stuff now. The only thing going against Ole at the moment is the inconsistency. Sort that out and we're flying. We know signings are going to come and our managers are always backed. So for those reasons I'm happy to give Ole more time.
People thinking just changing the manager will solve all our problems are deluded. If there was such a thing as a nailed on appointment, managers would be at clubs for 10 years or more on average. Every appointment is a gamble. Successes are very few and far between. We saw how Mourinho mismanaged Pogba, Shaw, Martial, Fred etc., whilst persevering with the likes of Matic and Fellaini. Spurs are welcome to him. They will find out soon enough.
When we win I think he's the best manager in the world but when we lose I want him to be sacked.
I have been Ole out since last season. I don't chop and change so easily, but if he does get 4th and we can win a cup this season he will deserve to stay on.
Who said he despicable exactly? Sorry if my opinion of a manager upset you.
This!
It is an important time to have some patience, at least from the board and not be tempted by mostly the internet fans in taking impatient decision to sack him if we don't finish top 4. Given the state of the squad (young and still some deadwood), I came into this season expecting us to be very inconsistent and be around 4-7th position. Even if we have had small upturn in form right now, we'll still be inconsistent and have performances like Watford (generally poor), Burnley (not brilliant but effective) and City (brilliant). But this is the first time since Sir Alex that I've really enjoyed watching us play and have increased my general interest in football itself. And it is the first time, we have players really improve under the manager and first time really a manager with an intention for long-term success of the club rather than just their short-term safety.
But obviously for the next season, I would expect improvement in the squad (signings, youth players integrated into the squad, more deadwood let go and in general more chemistry and experience in the current young spine of the team) and thus upping my expectations of what Ole should be achieving i.e. more consistency and 2-4th position. Failing those expectations, only then I would start questioning Ole's future at the club.
Also think some people fail to understand that every premiership team sees united as beatable these days due to our mistakes since Fergie retired, hence the up and down results.
Back in the day most teams were beat before they stepped foot on the pitch, now beating United is achievable if we have an off day, Liverpool are now getting the gimmies where as we have to be at best to win.
Back in the day most teams were beat before they stepped foot on the pitch, now beating United is achievable if we have an off day, Liverpool are now getting the gimmies where as we have to be at best to win.
It's far from a pointless post. The more people that are taking the time to point these things out the better chance that the agenda posters (or children as you correctly call them) will think about this more before they type.
This place is definitely starting to feel slightly less toxic in recent weeks. Obviously results improving has contributed to this, but posts like this one help too.
Not in the least upset - I have read a lot of worse things about him in here without being upset. But I did find the use of the term "Dislike him as a manager" a bit strange as he is probably the most likeable manager in the Premier League. If you meant to say that he isn't good enough and that is why you dislike him - fine!
Just you wait until our next defeat - even if it's at Anfield
Without a doubt. It will continue to be reactive on here because people fail to understand the long term part of a long term plan. Some tough fixtures coming up, and we are extremely unlikely to win all of them.
Just you wait until our next defeat - even if it's at Anfield
This is the problem. It doesn't even need to be a defeat. It could be an unlucky draw, or a win where we didn't cross the ball enough times, or crossed it too many times, or bought Lingard on in the 84th minute. Or a negative made up newspaper story about Pogba. Or just the fact that Ole hasn't appointed himself as Pochettino's butler.
I just wonder what the Pochettino cult would do if he did become our manager and we inevitably failed to improve. Probably just become utter hypocrits and either claim it was good enough or blame the players for every single problem.
There's truth to this. We're in that sweet spot where we're still an impressive scalp but also a scalp that everyone reckons they've got a good shot at.
We can't moan about it, it's only our own fault. And the only way to get back that fear factor is to win more and more. We'll get there, with a bit of patience.
Carabao Cup? Still in...
FA Cup? Still in...
Europa League? Won the group, still in...
Premier League? 5th place, 4pts out of 4th, 10 pts out of 3rd... (Through 20 games last year, we were 6th, 8 pts out of 4th, 10 pts out of 3rd)
Was Jose sacked for a similar situation? On the face of it, yes. But the circumstances under which things had gotten there, he was sacked for good reason. Given the fairly significant roster changes over the summer and the totally different direction we are moving offensively, I think Ole's doing a pretty fair job of things and the future is much brighter than when he took over.
FA Cup? Still in...
Europa League? Won the group, still in...
Premier League? 5th place, 4pts out of 4th, 10 pts out of 3rd... (Through 20 games last year, we were 6th, 8 pts out of 4th, 10 pts out of 3rd)
Was Jose sacked for a similar situation? On the face of it, yes. But the circumstances under which things had gotten there, he was sacked for good reason. Given the fairly significant roster changes over the summer and the totally different direction we are moving offensively, I think Ole's doing a pretty fair job of things and the future is much brighter than when he took over.
I think they are in for a surprise. Pochettino has always needed time to build a team - he didn't improve Espanyol in his first season in charge, he didn't improve Southampton a lot and he didn't improve Spurs
It's got nothing to do with failing to see the long term plan. Ole has been with us for a year and it's only been the last month or so were things look like they could be falling into place but many people are still sceptical because there's been too many false dawns for them to think that Ole is the man to take us forward. Some of us are maybe overly optimistic while others are being overly cautious but I could make a case for both sets of fans which means there's no right or wrong answer here.
Maybe that's on them. Perhaps their expectations were unrealistic given the situation he walked into. Hardly his fault.
Exactly - sometimes I wonder if people have completely forgotten where we were november 2018
I’m bored of this false dawn talk, as if people expect some miraculous winning spree for the rest of the season and anything less is classed as failure.
Our form has improved, our play is getting better, we are also in the running for top 4. We will still lose matches and put in some bad performances along the way, it happens.
Our form has improved, our play is getting better, we are also in the running for top 4. We will still lose matches and put in some bad performances along the way, it happens.
Said it in a different thread, every premiership team now thinks we are beatable and we are still a massive scalp regardless of our league position, easy to motivate their own players for a game v united who can make a name for themselves scoring a winner against united so unless we are at it it’s no surprise we will get up and down results as it’s impossible to be 100% every game.
All the more so with a relatively young and inexperienced squad, arguably lacking in leaders and strong personalities in the dressing room.
Exactly, just to build up our reputation of being feared where some teams were beat before they had stepped onto the pitch against us is going to take years whether it’s Ole, Poch, or any other manager in charge.
Disagree man. If we buy better players and have better management we'd be feared within 6 league games next season. I simply do not buy this "it's gonna take years" narrative. That doesn't happen. Just my opinion though.
I dislike him as a manager, meaning exactly that, not about his personality but about his management ability.
I will always like Ole the person.
A lot of posters don't get this level of realism mate
Despite similar table position to last year at this time, the wage bill is significantly less. From a purely business standpoint that is progress. But it also speaks to his managerial ability. Ole is getting the same or better results from ‘cheaper’ players.
Just curious, how did you get to know him as a person?
What is the long term plan? I see Ole keeps saying we are in transition and that we will see results long term. But what is the plan actually? We are consistently inconsistent, i dont see any tactical adjustments in game or otherwise. I dont see any pattern of play ( counter attacking aside). We dont have a fixed starting 11. We can either defend or attack cant do both. These are issues that need to be tackled. And unfortunately I dont think ole is the right man to do this.
I am not saying we should sack him but i feel if we are looking at long term part of long term plan it's going to be a very long wait!
Rather contradictory post - you dont think hes the man for the job but your not saying sack him... so hes not the man for the job but keep him?
ive seen us play lethargic crap football far to often but definitely seen tactical adjustments most games.
Another way of looking at this is that we were at 35 points last season at this point after Jose threw a huge fit and checked out whereas we are at 31 points this season. The difference is that the other top teams were actually in good form for the first half of the last season.
I think the fact is that Ed and co have done a fantastic job lowering our expectations. Honestly as much as I dislike Woodward I have to applaud him for doing such a good job at it.
Yeh that’s way too nuanced for many to understand. Apparently you have to either love or hate him with no actual separation from Ole the man, club legend & Manager
I must admit. I love the humor in you two collaborating with the term "nuances" Fair play! That was funny!
Fair enough - i misunderstood you. Sorry about that.
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