Doing well. Let’s hope we keep this up. Top 4 and Europa will be great.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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People probably too lazy to revote at least that's my assumption.
Why do we need this topic??? or does this topic need reform?
It is more than known that productivity and dynamic arise from good critiques but what I see here is a war between Ole's legendary army and big names fans army!
First I try to justify why we are obsessed for keeping him or sacking him:
We played shit in some games and some people said we see that many fans became a puppet as they lower thier standard because he is Ole. Well, I admit I really like him and it may bugged me to judge. It is kind of emotional connection with someone which potentially can harm judgment process. At the same time I see some tendencies or obsessions with big names, when we get good results some fans still want to see someone big at the realm. It is again understandable they want best for their favorite.
I make some reasons why we do not need this topic or it needs reformations:
1- He has had one year in his managerial role at United (including care-taker and permanent) . In my very humble opinion, when we judge Ole and what he did we should not look for his background, of course he is not some one big in a managerial role, and of course he is a legend for our club. When we want to make comments about his performance we must stick on facts and evidences based on statistics and process.
2- Based on an educated guess (his performance+our board) most likely he would not get sacked at least before the end of the season, we have one topic to analyze his performance as the united permanent manager, do you think it is not enough? Maybe a topic for Ole's sack watch could get established as other managers have had.
3- Why do we need to make him a candidate for being sacked?? while he is not even close to it.
4- Some people voted for sacking or keeping him some weeks ago without checking forum again!
5- It is even harmful for the reputation of constructive criticism to have such a topic with only two options to vote for!
6- what we need atm is debating over his performance and our team landscape not and urgent vote for keeping or sacking him!
7- It is always brilliant to have statistics from supporters, however, this statistic is not dynamic nor ergodic!
8- If you want to catch the current mindset of supporters you should define a threshold to restart the vote every week!
Sincerely yours,
Masskh
It is more than known that productivity and dynamic arise from good critiques but what I see here is a war between Ole's legendary army and big names fans army!
First I try to justify why we are obsessed for keeping him or sacking him:
We played shit in some games and some people said we see that many fans became a puppet as they lower thier standard because he is Ole. Well, I admit I really like him and it may bugged me to judge. It is kind of emotional connection with someone which potentially can harm judgment process. At the same time I see some tendencies or obsessions with big names, when we get good results some fans still want to see someone big at the realm. It is again understandable they want best for their favorite.
I make some reasons why we do not need this topic or it needs reformations:
1- He has had one year in his managerial role at United (including care-taker and permanent) . In my very humble opinion, when we judge Ole and what he did we should not look for his background, of course he is not some one big in a managerial role, and of course he is a legend for our club. When we want to make comments about his performance we must stick on facts and evidences based on statistics and process.
2- Based on an educated guess (his performance+our board) most likely he would not get sacked at least before the end of the season, we have one topic to analyze his performance as the united permanent manager, do you think it is not enough? Maybe a topic for Ole's sack watch could get established as other managers have had.
3- Why do we need to make him a candidate for being sacked?? while he is not even close to it.
4- Some people voted for sacking or keeping him some weeks ago without checking forum again!
5- It is even harmful for the reputation of constructive criticism to have such a topic with only two options to vote for!
6- what we need atm is debating over his performance and our team landscape not and urgent vote for keeping or sacking him!
7- It is always brilliant to have statistics from supporters, however, this statistic is not dynamic nor ergodic!
8- If you want to catch the current mindset of supporters you should define a threshold to restart the vote every week!
Sincerely yours,
Masskh
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Personally I am waiting for the next 2 premier league games! Today's game was inconsequential as is the league cup next mid week. Everton and watford fixtures will show us if this upsurge in form is an anomaly.
I'm one of those who vote "sack", and I'm not too lazy to revote. In my opinion, it's meaningless to change one's stance based on isolated result of one match. What I care is the long-term development of the team, how the squad is built, how the gameplan works, how the philosophy is implemented out etc. So I basically wouldn't change "sack" to "keep" due to a win; nor change "keep" to "sack" due to a defeat. As I've said previously, it's not the league standing or point that worries me, but the overall performance.
We've lost 2 in our last 10, one of which was a game where we played the majority of our youth team. We've beaten Chelsea, City and Tottenham in that run. 6 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses.
Scoring too many goals now, much preferred scoring only one and praying, Ole out!
Again, as I have just said, it's meaningless to single out certain results to support one's stance. Every manager experiences good and bad run, even Moyes tasted consecutive victories during his time at United. If you look at the period between 22 Sep to 20 Oct, it was a month without a win, in which we drew Rochdale and lost to Newcastle, and Ole should have been long gone by this standard. Hence, for me, I would care more about tge long-term development of the team.
Not surprised after being forced to watch videos on Phil Jagielka
. Moyes was a car crash from start to finish, you just can’t defend him!Add to that:
He was hired on the back of presenting a long term plan to the board and owners.
He's taken no shortcuts. No quickfixes! Sticking to his plan. To get us back to the top. Not this season, probably not the next either, but after that we have a squad entering it's prime challenging for the big titles again. He will not get fired because of some bad form or inconsistent performances with this squad in the beginning of a 2-3 season plan.
As long as we don't get relegated (not happening, probably end up between 4.-6., maybe challenging for some cups as well), he is going nowhere and it is about time the fans understand that and back him as well.
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Sack Ole, hire LVG
The Everton game will be key for me,if we can get a win there and play some decent football...
I don't think that's actually true - many people won't bother changing their vote
The poll should be rerun at some point
Make it happen Ed.
Why is that game key? Its been said about every match lately.
100% agree.
Olé may not be there for the next 20years but you know his realignment and foundation will be his legacy
Fixed
As a true United fan, you have to demand the club to get back to top 4 immediately.
Or at the least, as the season has not finished yet and top 4 can wait. Ole must show that he can not only beat the top 6 but also beat the smaller teams on a regular basis. As I say on a regular basis I mean all of them !
There should be no excuse, especially on Ole. If he can't do that, sack him and hire Poch. He is the only one who can get us back to top 4, beat all the top 6 and smash all the rest.
You United standard has been terribly lowered, tricked by a clueless, tactically inept clown of a manager who only managed Molde and got relegated with Cardiff. Shame on you.
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Well I mean it is Ole's first big test
No. Shame on you! For being too shortsighted to see the bigger picture. Did you read my post at all? This team and squad is not Oles' finished product. If you can't see that, that's 100% on you. By calling our manager "a clueless, tactically inept clown of a manager" you are the one shooting below the standards here.
He's doing a good job, hats off to Ole
Did you see Poch's record with Spurs away from home in the league v the top 6. 28 games played. 3 wins. The guy was good at beating the small teams and generally garbage when it came to big games, which probably also explains his lack of silverware.
I think they're gonna park the bus and if we struggle and drop points it'll be a hint that not much has changed. I think we're gonna win comfortably and it'll start changing my mind on ole's position.
I certainly hope you are right - I also think we'll win the game. However, we are going to drop points at some stage and probably quite soon. It'll be interesting to see how sharp the knives are going to be on here when that happens. I believe there are still a lot of posters just waiting for the ammunition.
Now please note what the below shows is that when you're building a new project it's very rare that it doesn't come with a few bumps along the way. Klopp and Pep have both rebuilt both sides (Pep rebuilt Cities defense) and despite having patchy form still managed to come out the other end and turned themselves into beasts. This doesn't mean Ole will replicate what they've done, but it does highlight the need for patience when it comes to long term rebuilds.
All Competitions / First 53 Games Under Each Manager:
All Competitions / First 53 Games Under Each Manager:
Manager | Games | Wins | Draws | Losses | Win Rate | GF | GA | GD |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ole | 53 | 28 | 11 | 14 | 52.8% | 85 | 58 | +27 |
| Klopp | 53 | 25 | 16 | 12 | 47.2% | 91 | 61 | +30 |
| Pep | 53 | 30 | 13 | 10 | 56.6% | 112 | 58 | +54 |
| Poch | 53 | 26 | 16 | 11 | 49.1% | 95 | 53 | +42 |
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Thats the difference -- I am a United supporter not because they win every time or are Champions. Maybe you need to look at yourself on why you support United or maybe its time to start supporting teams that win consistently. I am frankly embarrassed as a 45yrs United fan by the statements you make.
Time for you to change clubs you plastic fan.
He's probably the sort 'supporter' who changes clubs like when Becks left for RM. We used to laugh at the ridiculousness of RAWKs. We seemed to have taken the 180degree approach of self-hating our players and leaders.
The next 4 league games are crucial for me. We're good against our top 6 rivals but need to start beating the other teams regularly
Unfortunately there's different generations of United fans.
You come from the time where the club wasn't tradionally always successful, you've seen the hard times and the good.
Many of us are born in the late 80'90/00's and haven't seen anything but regular success, a year or 2 without a trophy was a shock. Its' difficult to change your mindset of regularly winning which is why this forum has become such a stroppy place recently.
You're right that it's abnormal to expect this, especially with all the competition we face these days, but wanting the club to win isn't "plastic". We just need to learn to deal with our expectations a bit better.
Yeah that's where I am to. Ole has won me back around a bit the last week or two, but we really have to show we can beat the inferior teams otherwise we aren't really taking a step forward.
I also think its a key game, as much for the fans as anything else. We've taken steps forward in the past only to get knocked back against a side you'd typically expect us to beat which feeds into the fans frustration on Ole. I think we all accept its going to be a season of ups and downs but if we can get some consistency going, it will change the mood massively.
We'll always have the doom-mongers who have made their mind up on Ole and there's no going back for those people, but the majority are seeing some encouraging signs and if we can continue it against Everton, a team which will present a completely different challenge, then it starts to feel a bit more "real" rather than game-raising.
I hope you are trolling - otherwise I am really worried about you
We need to go back to the old newbie system.
What I think the results against Spurs and City gave us more than anything, was confidence. If you can beat Spurs and City, you can definitely beat Everton and Watford.
I agree but I always question people that the winning is the most important part of being a supporter. Its sounds so feckin' American. A winner.
There is more to United than that -- history, the way they treat/remember their former players etc. United should be the personification of a good human being -- character, fun and principled -- or life in general.
Otherwise, why do fans support Grimsby Town?
Yup, only you got me. Isn't what I said was the narrative here just few weeks ago.
A bit disappointed though.
No one realises this actually is a title winning form
People are updating their vote. When we lose more want to sack Ole. When we win it’s the other wat around. If you monitor it you see.
This 'he only managed Molde and got relegated with Cardiff' narrative is mental. Everyone has to start somewhere. Pep had ONLY managed a B team ffs and Klopp only missed relegation on the last day of the season in his first job. It's all about patience. Ole is doing great work so far and the players will all run through walls for him. The tactics he is implementing need a lot of conditioning and I think we are starting to see the benefit of the summer and 15-20 games playing that style. We aren't dying off at the end of matches anymore.
He did the right thing for the club in getting rid of Sanchez + Lukaku when it could have been easier for him and his job security to have that fire power up front. He is the right man at the right time. No team wins everything all the time. We as United fans need to accept this period or risk becoming a bit RAWKish. Just look at the lads when they score goals. Look at the huddle and the team bond that is growing. It's amazing what he has done in one year.
He did the right thing for the club in getting rid of Sanchez + Lukaku when it could have been easier for him and his job security to have that fire power up front. He is the right man at the right time. No team wins everything all the time. We as United fans need to accept this period or risk becoming a bit RAWKish. Just look at the lads when they score goals. Look at the huddle and the team bond that is growing. It's amazing what he has done in one year.
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