So everyone agrees that he picked up a team in a shitshow. But Ole's supporters just can't see or ignore the fact that we are more of a shitshow now compared to when he took over. Interesting.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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We are actually quite decent against the top teams.We beat Chelsea twice this season....We beat Leicester and drew with Liverpool,so we are actually quite good on the break when the top teams come at us.I think Jose will sit deep and try to hit us on the break...Jose won’t let his team forward like Chelsea,he will be very pragmatic and it should be an interesting game...
Christ you argue with me about form since Liverpool so it either does or it doesn’t count?
I love Ole, but keeping him as a manager is ridiculous. The way we're going we’re not going to finish anywhere near the top 4 and we look clueless when we play. We have less of a style than what we had with Mourinho.
Sure, he’s allowed the youngsters through which is genuinely brilliant and I love seeing the likes of Greenwood and Williams making waves in the first team. But that doesn’t mean Ole gets an extra few weeks before we sack him. Because let’s be honest, he’s in the plank at the moment - the question is how far along the plank does he need to walk before he gets pushed off.
He isn’t the man who take us back into the top 4 and back into the champions league.
Poch is available and the previous reason for not going for him “because we’d have to pay millions and millions in compensation to Spurs for letting him go” is no longer valid.
Ole needs to go.
Sure, he’s allowed the youngsters through which is genuinely brilliant and I love seeing the likes of Greenwood and Williams making waves in the first team. But that doesn’t mean Ole gets an extra few weeks before we sack him. Because let’s be honest, he’s in the plank at the moment - the question is how far along the plank does he need to walk before he gets pushed off.
He isn’t the man who take us back into the top 4 and back into the champions league.
Poch is available and the previous reason for not going for him “because we’d have to pay millions and millions in compensation to Spurs for letting him go” is no longer valid.
Ole needs to go.
If we finish 10th and win a domestic cup do you think Ole is keeping his job ? Van Gaal didn't so I see no reason as to why Ole should.
The only viable competition that will give Ole any merit despite a disastrous league campaign would be a Europa League win.
Or maybe they don't agree with that statement.
I'd rather see the likes of McTominay, AWB, Williams, James, Rashford(in his proper position), Martial(in his proper position), Greenwood & Tuanzabe all putting in inconsistent performances but developing than watching what we watched last year with awful games and awful players with no hope to boot.
What the actual feck are you on about?
I listed stats about this season.
You said it's not fair to list stats about last season.
I pointed out that it was about this season, not last season.
You then go on about the last 7 games.
I pointed out that 7 games is not the full season.
You say I'm claiming that our last 7 games don't count even though my stats include our last 7 games.
Are you high?
I don't think he will keep his job regardless. That being said, the poster I replied to cited the Premier League stats and told another poster to stop dressing up stats. That indicates that the only competition worth mentioning is the league. If that's the case, why bother competing for anything else at all then?
I couldn’t care less how far off 5th we are, we’re also 2 points off 14th, but in November our top 4 chances are gone.A third of the way through the league and we’ve won 4 games, can’t even remember when we won league games back to back. Ole is doing a rubbish job, that’s the reality and he will struggle to hit the dizzy heights of David Moyes.
When you say progress you mean progress from Ole making us so bad that we couldn’t win a game to now 2 league wins in 5 games is held up as some kind of improvement not actual progress.
For the money cost I don’t see how anyone can call AWB and Maguire excellent signings, improvements but very expensive (especially Maguire).
There is no magic January transfer window, Ole will have to coach and manage his way out of this mess. What he needs to save himself is ability and skills he simply doesn’t have. Can give him time and money but you are asking an inferior manager to get the job done, that won’t change.
I see. So basically the only requirement we have for the manager of the biggest club in England is to play the likes of McTominay, AWB, Williams, James, Rashford and Martial (in their proper positions). Knowing United way is a nice bonus. I think our legendary kitman Albert perfectly qualifies for the manager job then. Maybe he would be better instead of Ole?
Whether it counts or not it certainly doesn't impact any judgement on our premier league form.
The excuses in here are desperate. Thinking he can turn it around is one thing, trying to paint the picture that we're not in crazily bad form and he's not currently doing a bad job is genuine delusion.
No that's not what I said at all.
I think the Europa is generally an important competition for a team struggling in the league who want to get top four, no doubt, and we should be looking to win it
But the quality of opposition we've played in it and the league cup (Chelsea aside) is far lower than we've played in the PL and picking just our last seven games, four of which have been in those competitions, and saying "look how much better we're doing", is very selective stat picking to suit an agenda.
Also.. it is true, the PL is much more important than either of those competitions. Managers should generally be judged on the PL results first and foremost.
This one of the main issues for me. Solskjaer is being credited for clearing out the deadwood, for trusting & improving our young first team and for getting his three transfers spot on. Let's leave the debate about the extent of this argument's credibility aside for a while and let's pretend that the people who suggest that he deserves full credit are correct. If he's doing all these things right and he still has the worst win % out of all United managers (post-SAF), what does this say about his actual managerial abilities? If the players are improving, if the deadwood is gone and if the transfers are successful, then why the team struggles against most midtable PL clubs? Maybe he's not good enough, after all?
I wrote on another thread that 13 of the 14 players that were utilized yesterday are in the team because Solskjaer wants them to be in the team. Jones and Pereira got new deals under him and Lingard will soon follow. His three signings were on the pitch too. His preferred attacking trident too. The youngsters that played are all part of his vision for the future. Yet, here we are with 4 wins in 13 PL games, nearly a year after his first match. People keep blabbering "Woodward this, Woodward that" but this is Solskjaer's team we're seeing week in and week out. There's no doubt about that.
All these players, like Mata-Lingard-Pereira, will be here in three years time but somehow, by some strange swing of a magical wand, we'll be title contenders.
Well considering when Ole took over we looked like we had given up before kick off that an improvement, but we should aim higher than that. Of course things could be better, but outside of the pitch there have been improvements imo.
Maguire has not been spectacular considering his price, but solid imo. His key defensive stats (clearances, tackles, blocks) are way and beyond better than Lindelof so hes at least the best of a bad bunch. James already has 3 goals and 4 assists (should have been 6 at least) and if he keeps this up he will end the season with double digits in both. Thats good for 15 million player. AWB is great, we agree on that
Fitness and mentality also seems to have improved. Fighting back from 0-2 to get 3-2 away from home gives me hope, because its a long time since we have seen a comeback like that. With Martial out we could not score in a brothel and now suddenly we are putting 3 past Sheffield who have conceded almost no goals at home this season. Get Pogba and Scott fit again and our midfield suddenly goes from utterly shite to quite solid. Injuries happen, but right now lack of depth is killing us.
Ole is not the best manager in the world, but if he gets sacked now, Woody and many of these players will have outlived their 4th manager. Is that okay? I dont want to get into whether or not those other managers deserved the sack or not, but managers are not our only problem. When Jose was sacked we had the mother of all new manager bounces because relations between him and the players were so poor. Considering the players still back Ole, they might not react well to a change.
Getting us back on track was never a 1 season job. Ole took over a mess and it is still a mess, so if we change managers now we are placing the next one in a really unfortunate position. If we dont look better at the end of the year then he should probably go, but i honestly see no realistic benefits of changing managers mid season.
I don't think everything is that black and white. We allways seem to dig out something or someone to compare situations, players, managers to what fits our narrative. The thing is that we really haven't been in a transition state like this before, and before we get a couple of more pieces of the puzzle in place it is hard so see where this project is headed and the quality of it. Our squad and the state of it with all it's injuries makes it hard show for any sort of continuity and to judge the quality or the ceiling of it.
If you want to compare the Ole and Moyes then at least factor in this:
- Moyes inherited a PL winning squad with Rooney, RVP, Vidic, Ferdinand, Carrick, Evra, de Gea and Valencia. He didn't need to go directly into rebuildmode.
- The first thing he did was bringing in Felaini (the only one we really wanted from that Everton squad was Baines), sacking SAFs coaching team and tried to replicate what he did at Everton.
- He was never really liked and he lost the wardrobe.
Besides mediocre results, there really isn't much that is similar between the two situations.
I am pretty sure that Ole has presented a longterm vision and plan for the club to the board, and the fact that the results hasn't been as good as we want them to hasn't changed the longterm picture. If he doesn't get the support he needs from the board/Glazers to do one or two premium signings in January, I'm pretty sure it's game over for him. If he gets these signings I am very interested in seeing how far he can take us, and with more signings in the summer I think things will look a lot better. I am optimistic.
The guy is clearly out of his depth but you just know Woodward will delay doing the inevitable because he desperately wants Ole to be a success. Ed jumped the gun by giving Ole the permanent job and the ego in him will not want to be seen like he made the wrong decision.
I absolutely cannot see why it is not okay. That's what every single club in the world does, we need to stop thinking we are special and that any average manager will turn out to be great if we give him 5 years. It's basically saying managers are not important in football, just give a good squad to any average manager and he will do good. We all know it's not true. I fully realise it will take years to sort out this mess but is it really not possible to be at least decent and watchable while we are doing it? I just can't see how can people be okay giving a rebuilding job to someone who has showed absolutely nothing he is good enough to do it. Everyone was unhappy that Jose looked always miserable but seeing Ole always smiling after every humiliation just gets on my neves even more because it reminds me he is only hired to be a shield for our board/owners and unfortunately Ed's plan worked. Basically if instead of Ole we had someone like Dick Jones, the poll would be 80% in favour to sack right now, I am sure of it.
Interesting thing about that team that looked like it was beaten before kick off is Ole needs to win 3 of next 4 league games to match their points tally at same stage of season.
This is how I see it playing out.
Spurs - draw
City - loss
Everton - Silva(win) or Moyes (draw)
Watford - win
4 wins in the league and we are almost in December. Simply awful start to the season. I dont even think we will win more than 12 league games this season
I haven't argued or stated what you have said.
All I asked was, is the Premier League be all and end all, and did no other competition matter? Whatever you think of the opposition we have played we have a quarter final in the league cup (that with all due respect we should win, then be in the semi's) and are in the knock out stages of the Europa League. Sure, the league form has been rotten, and we should be doing much better. But we have improved recently and other competitions are there to play for, surely we go for them?
I wasn't replying to you in my first post, I don't think? So I never said that's what you said?
And that's my opinion too for what it's worth, we should absolutely be targeting the Europa League in the New Year.
I never think of Europa as a tier bellow CL.
Yes off course they're a tier bellow CL, but if we somehow ended up in Europa it also means we're a tier bellow CL teams. So winning Europa is never a given, even if we put all our eggs on that basket it's far from being an easy run. The later stages will have CL teams, and the top 8 will have good teams from Spain / Italy / German.
At our current form I don't think we're even top 4 favorites to win this
Im choosing to look at the positives:
- Results against the best teams have generally been good to very good. At the standard required for a United manager. We are not being found out tactically against the best so for me the jury is still out about the competence of this management team in that area
- Transfers were good. I trust him to spend our money as things stand
- We are getting a good look at our young players. By seasons end we will know which ones are going to make it here
- Much of the dross has been cleared out from the squad. Nothing players that were hanging around and stealing a living are gone
- The squad looks happier - morale around the club seems to be a lot better
- We don't always turn up against the teams we are expected to beat. Inconsistency is a problem
- When we are bad, we are very bad. When we are good, some glimpses of an exciting team are there
- The league position must improve - in the cups so far so good
Spurs - Lost (Mourinho knows us better than Ole knows Spurs)
City - Lost (anything other than a win for them is blinkered, they are the 100 pts team after all)
Everton - could go either way, but if it's Moyes I think they'll have a new manager bounce
Watford - Win
But the key is the Spurs/City, if that's indeed a 2 lost I don't think Everton / Watford matters, we'll be well and trully buried in midtable by then.
On the bolded part. On the contrary, we win because to be honest Leicester/Liverpool are looking at us with half closed eyes. Liverpool didn't think we can hurt them and goes for the jugular since the first minute and that's actually played to our strenght (counter attack, no need to think much, hoof, run, and shoot). If they're not so cocky and treat us with respect and play the cautious game we'd be clueless on how to win.
It's not because of our tactics, it's because they're overconfident .
The dross, I fear isn't really a dross. A mismanaged player can look like a deadwood given time, only to spring to live under new teams. So what seems to be "not deadwood" in ole's first year can somehow turn into deadwoods in year 2 because of lack of coaching.
"Perreira, Lingard, Mata, Matic, Fred" - I don't know if they're actually deadwoods or just mismanaged
"AWB, Maguire" - slowly turning into mediocre players, Maguire isn't that much better than smailing the more he plays. AWB is limited at attacking and doesn't look like he'll be improving
The question is, wrong personnel for the right system? Or the right personnel in the wrong system?
I want Ole sacked but merely replacing him with another manager is not going to resolve all our problems.
The midfield and front 3 are clearly not good enough. Even when Pogba and McTominay come back we need another CM to compliment those two. James should not be a regular starter IMO. Whilst I like Rashford and Martial both are too inconsistent to be guaranteed a starting place as well. They need competition. Neville commented on the front three's lack of movement yesterday. I'm sure Ole will get blamed for not coaching them but it was exactly the same from those two players when Jose was in charge. A clear lack of movement off the ball. That tells me it's the players not putting the shift in.
Add to the fact Shaw is never fit. Williams is doing a good job as back up to be fair but again a 19 year old should not be expected to step and play every week. And I would replace Lindelof because I think he's a terrible defender and lacks the pace and strength to be in the Premier League.
So in all that's a CB, LB, two CM, ST & RW. Anyone can view my posts from the beginning of the season. We went into the season with too small of a squad and any injury to key players would ruin us. That is exactly what happened. Can you blame Ole for all of that? Yes and no, it's difficult to know who's to blame for the transfer window. We needed a mass overhaul but only if you sign players to replace them. Selling two first team CM and two forwards only to replace them with youngsters with no first team experience is absolute suicide. It's not like half our players had gone out on loan like the Chelsea youngsters, the likes of Greenwood, Williams, Gomes, Chong, Garner had played minutes for the first team.
Saying the above I would expect better results and more importantly performances against a lot of the poor teams we have played this season. We were dominated by Sheffield United for 70 minutes. One shot in that time. That has been a mirror of games against Astana, Alkmaar, Belgrade away, Bournemouth, Southampton... I could go on.
The midfield and front 3 are clearly not good enough. Even when Pogba and McTominay come back we need another CM to compliment those two. James should not be a regular starter IMO. Whilst I like Rashford and Martial both are too inconsistent to be guaranteed a starting place as well. They need competition. Neville commented on the front three's lack of movement yesterday. I'm sure Ole will get blamed for not coaching them but it was exactly the same from those two players when Jose was in charge. A clear lack of movement off the ball. That tells me it's the players not putting the shift in.
Add to the fact Shaw is never fit. Williams is doing a good job as back up to be fair but again a 19 year old should not be expected to step and play every week. And I would replace Lindelof because I think he's a terrible defender and lacks the pace and strength to be in the Premier League.
So in all that's a CB, LB, two CM, ST & RW. Anyone can view my posts from the beginning of the season. We went into the season with too small of a squad and any injury to key players would ruin us. That is exactly what happened. Can you blame Ole for all of that? Yes and no, it's difficult to know who's to blame for the transfer window. We needed a mass overhaul but only if you sign players to replace them. Selling two first team CM and two forwards only to replace them with youngsters with no first team experience is absolute suicide. It's not like half our players had gone out on loan like the Chelsea youngsters, the likes of Greenwood, Williams, Gomes, Chong, Garner had played minutes for the first team.
Saying the above I would expect better results and more importantly performances against a lot of the poor teams we have played this season. We were dominated by Sheffield United for 70 minutes. One shot in that time. That has been a mirror of games against Astana, Alkmaar, Belgrade away, Bournemouth, Southampton... I could go on.
See to me this is not an impartial opinion. The good sides we beat we did so because they didn't take us seriously? That's your honest view?
All the players that playing crap are being mismanaged?
Just reads like someone looking for the negative in everything in my view
Sssshhhhhh!!!! Keep that same energy when Pogba is back and has a poor game.
Mata, Lingaard, Fred and Jones are dross too.
Agreed (though I think Mata was retained because of his influence off the pitch as much as his current abilities on it). These players will be gone as soon we can sign better players.
What has Pogba done for our club compared to Ole? Absolute shambolic mindset if you believe this is OK.
What has Ole done? He was a good servant but gets more respect than David Beckham which is just bloody odd. Meanwhile it’s okay to call Pogba names because he didn’t score a goal in a Champions League final, but yet he’s our best player something Ole has never been.
End of the day people can critise who they want. Fans shouldn’t come out policing people especially a player of the level of Ole. When he leaves his post I’m sure there will be no love lost for what he done as a player.
See I think the positives you mention above should be the bare minimum for any manager here. Good performances against the big teams, good transfers, good squad harmony, give the youngsters some minutes, clear out dross. I also don't agree that Ole has done all that but that's a different debate entirely.
If we were to hired a new manager and that positive list was what was given to them I'd say feck that, get a better manager who also gets us playing good football, gets our players performing well, gets our players fitter, gets consistent results, looks like he knows what he's actually doing tactically, you know, what a good manager can do.
Just because our previous managers failed to do a lot of the above positives doesn't somehow mean Ole doing them means he's in anyway good enough especially as his overall performance and results are far worse than Mourinho or LvG ever gave us.
If the name of the manager was Sam Allerdyce... hired as interim and made permanent manager because he had a great run. By now everyone would want him sacked.
Pathetic. I should know better and not engage in such embarrassing conversation.
100% this.
Replace Ole with any other manager, exact same set of circumstances, and the poll would be around 90% get rid. It's blind loyalty and romanticism stewing in an awful, putrid pot alongside fear.
Fear, in that we've tried so many different angles and spins on our managerial approach, that this one has to work because the alternative is that maybe we are just genuinely fecked as a major club for the foreseeable future.
They scored 3 goals in a game the opposition dominated. Are you able to explain how you expect a forward to be effective when the rest of the team is incapable of giving them the ball?
If you're going to slag off our front players every time they don't rip the opposition apart for the whole 90 minutes, you're never going to think anyone we play there is good enough.
Ole obviously knows his way round Microsoft Office. He is a Powerpoint legend and knows the Excel way. This would go down well with Ed.
I don't find positives in 10th
If you happened to find more positives than negatives in our currect predicament then maybe you enjoy being 10th. I don't
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