Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Andycoleno9]

Exactly. Pretty much sums it up. This discusses will never exist beyond a United forum. Yes, some will prefer other top managers like Pep, Klopp, Conte etc ahead of him but preferring to stick with Ole ahead of Poch is something just 2-3 years from now will look at and laugh about it. I have no doubt this thread will look funny as hell in the future.

Problem is that with Bayern in race, every day is important. The way how they do their business is brutal. They do it in silence and in a few days. If they want him i am sure that they will go and sign him in next few days.
Probably like Guardiola. They will sign him now and he will start next season.

 

[Shark]

Do you seriously believe Pochettino is the only good manager out there ? A manager who has had one brilliant season as a manager in his entire career ?

If OGS fails and gets sacked - there will be 20 managers out there who is just as good as Pochettino - and 3-4-5 of these will probably be available if that happens

That's just not true. Plenty of so called promising managers have come to the PL and failed miserably. Poch is a manager that's proven himself to consistently deliver CL football.

 

[Mainoldo]

Picture this,

Sancho to greenwood.. and Haland has won it!

Won what? The League Cup?

 

[ottosec]

If Poch is willing, there no excuse now. He is one of the best options we could hope for as he has proven himself capable of building a competitive squad. And that was under Levy.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Picture this,

Sancho to greenwood.. and Haland has won it!

Sounds fantastic.

I'd love it. I just see a 0.1% chance that it happens. Jadon Sancho will have his choice of CL top-tier clubs. We are primed to finish outside the top 4 for the second season running, probably outside the top 6.

 

[momo83]

Have to admit, there are some similarities.

Don’t get the York and Cole = Martial and Rashford

 

[Mainoldo]

Don’t get the York and Cole = Martial and Rashford

Reallyyyyyyy???

 

[Bilbo]

Match going fans supported Jose, Moyes and LVG till the end.
And sometimes is wise to hear other club fans. They are all happy with us having Ole as manager. Sure, you can say at first "feck them" but it says something.

On the first point, this is definitely not my experience. Our stadium was a very tense place to be when things started to go bad with Jose & LVG (I didn't get to OT the Moyes season at all). Lots of boos and lot of negative chanting that would have affected the team. You could hear the boos and the 'attack, attack, attack' clearly on TV and it could be deafening at the stadium, but what you wouldn't have gotten on the TV is the general atmosphere and the abuse that was thrown at the players and the manager. It was quite toxic on many occasions that I was there.

I haven't experienced any of that under Ole (Though admittedly I've only got to 7 or 8 of his matches). The crowd seem very much behind him and the team. Maybe others have a different experience. It might still get there with him but for me its not even close to that level of discontent yet.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

People here compare Ole with Fergie and Klopp. No one should be surprised they consider Ole better than Poch.

 

[Dec9003]

20 managers...I'd like to know who these managers who like Poch has PL experience and done a brilliant job at Spurs with minimum spending.

Ignoring Solsjkaer for a moment, why would united want to look for a manager with experience working under a tight budget?
Pochettino is clearly a good manager, but if he came here it would be the biggest challenge of his career, he has a hell of a lot to prove still.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t go for him obviously, but it’s worth taking into consideration when speaking about trying to get him.

 

[Andycoleno9]

On the first point, this is definitely not my experience. Our stadium was a very tense place to be when things started to go bad with Jose & LVG (I didn't get to OT the Moyes season at all). Lots of boos and lot of negative chanting that would have affected the team. You could hear the boos and the 'attack, attack, attack' clearly on TV and it could be deafening at the stadium, but what you wouldn't have gotten on the TV is the general atmosphere and the abuse that was thrown at the players and the manager. It was quite toxic on many occasions that I was there.

I haven't experienced any of that under Ole (Though admittedly I've only got to 7 or 8 of his matches). The crowd seem very much behind him and the team. Maybe others have a different experience. It might still get there with him but for me its not even close to that level of discontent yet.

Thanks for info. Fir me it is always nice to hear things from match going fan.

 

[Halftrack]

People here compare Ole with Fergie and Klopp. No one should be surprised they consider Ole better than Poch.

Literally no one does. You guys should try to argue against something other than strawmen for once.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Similar support was expressed for Moyes,LVG and Jose...

It usually is. As in - everywhere, it's not a United/Woodward thing. If anything, the "we're 100% behind the manager" line indicates that he's in deep shit.

The difference this time around is that the club have been making explicit noises about a long-term approach. As I keep saying, if Woodward isn't on the same page as Ole with regard to ins and outs and the expectations for this season, what happened this summer is baffling (even for Woody).

In fact, much of the support for Ole on here is predicated on there being a long-term plan - and that short-term results are expected to be dodgy (because we're clearly some way off having a good enough squad in place).

 

[Red Devil's Advocate]

Are you actually saying Ole is a better manager than Poch? A man who got Spurs challenging with the big boys & a European Cup final to the point Jose would go there now to a man who got Cardiff relegated & gave us our worst start in Prem history?

The Ole cult is crazy

Better manager? That's highly subjective because there is no assessment exam for football managers so unless they manage the same club and the same squad, it's hardly even worth debating. He had a long term contract with no pressure to win things and abundant influx of talent, and crumbled the moment there were expectations.

He is a good manager but just making a blanket statement that he is better than Ole or anyone else for that matter seems juvenile to me.

 

[Bilbo]

People here compare Ole with Fergie and Klopp. No one should be surprised they consider Ole better than Poch.

Is anybody saying that though? I haven't seen any posts where anybody has said that.

He needs time & backing - just like Klopp & Ferguson and countless others were given. Would he have been given the interim role without the United connection? No of course not. Did he get the permanent position based on that? No - it was the results at the start. He earned it. Now he has a great opportunity to prove to people that he can take his club back to being challengers & winners.

 

[Shark]

Is anybody saying that though? I haven't seen any posts where anybody has said that.

He needs time & backing - just like Klopp & Ferguson and countless others were given. Would he have been given the interim role without the United connection? No of course not. Did he get the permanent position based on that? No - it was the results at the start. He earned it. Now he has a great opportunity to prove to people that he can take his club back to being challengers & winners.

Now let's see him start by winning two PL games in a row this season, starting with Sheffield United on Sunday. Continuing with our current league form while Bayern are given a free shot at Poch would be absolute lunacy. Now is Ole' chance, Woodward won't wait much longer.

 

[Shark]

Ignoring Solsjkaer for a moment, why would united want to look for a manager with experience working under a tight budget?
Pochettino is clearly a good manager, but if he came here it would be the biggest challenge of his career, he has a hell of a lot to prove still.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t go for him obviously, but it’s worth taking into consideration when speaking about trying to get him.

Why would we ignore Solsjkaer? he's our current manager, ignoring him when making a point like this is pretty useless.

 

[Isotope]

Would be nice to have Eboue option, as usual.

 

[lysglimt]

You have picked selective games from the last season. Rodgers had them almost win a title which hadn’t been for a good 20 years. They finished second but were no where near under Rafa or Houdlier. The season after the Suarez season they were something like 8th in the league when Rodgers got sacked. Exactly the same situation Spurs have put themselves in. Check some facts before trying to look at a few results.

Yes I picked 5 selective games - but they lost a lot more games than that.

If you lose 1-4 to Arsenal, 0-3 at home to West Ham and 1-6 to Stoke - you will get fired if you are a manager in a club with a bit of ambitions. Those are maulings - not defeats.

 

[lysglimt]

How can a failed manager be hired to replace another manager who hasn't failed yet?

touche! If we are gonna replace OGS (and we absolutely shouldnt at this Point) - that manager should:

a) be in charge of a team at the top, or moving towards the top
b) be a Winner

Not a manager who has taken his team crashing towards the bottom and never won anything.

 

[Majima]

It usually is. As in - everywhere, it's not a United/Woodward thing. If anything, the "we're 100% behind the manager" line indicates that he's in deep shit.

The difference this time around is that the club have been making explicit noises about a long-term approach. As I keep saying, if Woodward isn't on the same page as Ole with regard to ins and outs and the expectations for this season, what happened this summer is baffling (even for Woody).

In fact, much of the support for Ole on here is predicated on there being a long-term plan - and that short-term results are expected to be dodgy (because we're clearly some way off having a good enough squad in place).

What is this all about? Since when has lowering the standards, making all sorts of excuses for the results & performances right now, ever lead to building a strong foundation and competing at the top?

Facts are Solskjaer inherited a team which finished 2nd the season before, whilst the fan base and club actually blamed Mourinho for holding the team back from competing further. Solskjaer came in and made it clear how he believed in this group and knew they were quality.

So what's changed now? Everyone wants to carry on like that never happened to continue their fantasy?

If we have gone backwards and the squad is now regarded as not good enough to even make top 4, then that's all on Solskjaer & the club.

I refuse to accept the club's rubbish propaganda. All i see right now is a club drowning, gasping for air and clutching at thin air.

 

[lysglimt]

If anyone is arguing that Solskjaer is a better manager than Poch then that is deluded. Not because it's an opinion Poster X disagrees with but because it's an opinion that isn't based on actual reality.

First of all that is impossible to say until OGS has had a few years to prove himself. But of course OGS has a lot less to show yet.

However - that is not what he said - it was basically anyone comparing (not saying he was better) OGS to Pochettino is deluded.

 

[lysglimt]

Won what? The League Cup?

Well that would still be more than Poch has won

 

[Majima]

First of all that is impossible to say until OGS has had a few years to prove himself. But of course OGS has a lot less to show yet.

However - that is not what he said - it was basically anyone comparing (not saying he was better) OGS to Pochettino is deluded.

Why would anyone compare Solskjaer to Pochettino in the first place?

1 year separates both of them, yet one has held his own and more in the toughest league in the world at 2 different clubs for 6 years straight. The other failed badly in the Premier League, then couldn't even last 1 year in the Championship, was never seen again, fading into obscurity before we came calling.

It's a nonsense comparison from the start.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

(and we absolutely shouldnt at this Point)

At this point as in today or tomorrow or at the end of the season?

 

[bsCallout]

What is this all about? Since when has lowering the standards, making all sorts of excuses for the results & performances right now, ever lead to building a strong foundation and competing at the top?

Facts are Solskjaer inherited a team which finished 2nd the season before, whilst the fan base and club actually blamed Mourinho for holding the team back from competing further. Solskjaer came in and made it clear how he believed in this group and knew they were quality.

So what's changed now? Everyone wants to carry on like that never happened to continue their fantasy?

If we have gone backwards and the squad is now regarded as not good enough to even make top 4, then that's all on Solskjaer & the club.

I refuse to accept the club's rubbish propaganda. All i see right now is a club drowning, gasping for air and clutching at thin air.

Except we weren't a second place team, we were a team on the decline after an over performing season with no investment. Ole said all the right things to motivate the players to do better, and it worked until that motivation dropped.

Investments have been made since then, and they are good investments.

Surely no one genuinely believes this team/squad player for player especially without Pogba and Martial are good enough for top 3. Realistically we have the worst team player for player of the top 7. Potential is another matter. Ole's job is to realise that potential and do good business in the next two windows. He has also managed us well in big games. "Lowering the standards" is likely a tac to take pressure off the youngsters and allow them to express themselves.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

What is this all about? Since when has lowering the standards, making all sorts of excuses for the results & performances right now, ever lead to building a strong foundation and competing at the top?

Facts are Solskjaer inherited a team which finished 2nd the season before, whilst the fan base and club actually blamed Mourinho for holding the team back from competing further. Solskjaer came in and made it clear how he believed in this group and knew they were quality.

So what's changed now? Everyone wants to carry on like that never happened to continue their fantasy?

If we have gone backwards and the squad is now regarded as not good enough to even make top 4, then that's all on Solskjaer & the club.

I refuse to accept the club's rubbish propaganda. All i see right now is a club drowning, gasping for air and clutching at thin air.

It's a very overlooked point. And a very basic one.

Jose was said to be massively underachieving with what he had, a major part of why he was fired.

Ole failed to make top 4 with that same squad - free pass. Ole then trimmed that squad down and now looks highly unlikely to make top 4 yet again - seemingly another free pass.

All it goes to show is that the board have pulled a masterstroke. All they needed to do to quell unrest among the fans was plaster a friendly, familiar, smiling face over the gaping wound and ta-da.

It's something that could genuinely have a study or paper written on it, it's quite impressive and a bit scary.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

What is this all about? Since when has lowering the standards, making all sorts of excuses for the results & performances right now, ever lead to building a strong foundation and competing at the top?

You have to be realistic about where the club actually is in terms of foundations and structure. You can't just insist on "standards" as if United were a club any manager post Fergie should have challenging for the biggest prizes per default.

United didn't have a proper plan for dealing with losing Fergie - that is now very obvious.

Do we have it now - finally? feck knows, I'm very skeptical myself. But talking about "lowering the standards" is neither here nor there. United need a long term strategy - an approach to building the club back up again. That means - yes - that being X points off the top is irrelevant for the time being.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Do we have it now - finally? feck knows, I'm very skeptical myself. But talking about "lowering the standards" is neither here nor there. United need a long term strategy - an approach to building the club back up again. That means - yes - that being X points off the top is irrelevant for the time being.

What if the assumed long term strategy is based on a completely wrong approach? Then it does not matter how good the manager or coaches are.
I think it is fair to say that some variation of possessionbased football is what is most likely to yield good results over time. And we have seen zero indications that OGS and his team are either interested or capable to implement this type of football. Or one could argue that the players are not right for playing this type of football... Then again, why would one invest in more players this summer not suited to play possession-based football?

 

[fps]

I've voted Ole out, I love him but don't think he's the right man for the job.

However, I don't think bringing potch in will be the saviour of our club. Yes he may solidify us like he did with Spurs, but surely we need a manager that will not only solidify us, but also win trophies and get us challenging City and Liverpool.

Personally I would prefer Ancellote(sp?).

I always felt Ancelotti would have been the right appointment post SAF, likeable, affable, huge experience, professional, attractive football, and his experience of other massive clubs would allow him to provide info to help the club modernise. Two seasons, long term succession put in place in the meantime with a modern structure to help the true long term successor to succeed, two years for anyone who wanted it to prove they could do it at their club.

 

[Shark]

You have to be realistic about where the club actually is in terms of foundations and structure. You can't just insist on "standards" as if United were a club any manager post Fergie should have challenging for the biggest prizes per default.

United didn't have a proper plan for dealing with losing Fergie - that is now very obvious.

Do we have it now - finally? feck knows, I'm very skeptical myself. But talking about "lowering the standards" is neither here nor there. United need a long term strategy - an approach to building the club back up again. That means - yes - that being X points off the top is irrelevant for the time being.

How come other massive clubs around Europe don’t need this long term strategy to at least finish top four in their respective leagues? I agree we didn’t prepare for SAF’s departure but this romanticism rubbish needs to stop. You either come into a club like United and start getting results quickly at least a moderate standard at the beginning, as in top four form, or the fans and board are going to be on your back. It’s not rocket science. Where we are right now is unacceptable, there’s no two ways about it.

 

[King Kendrick]

Don’t care about Poch becoming available, give me Marco Rose if we were to replace Ole.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

There is added pressure on OGS to get results of the back of Pochettino leaving. Simply has to get results after all the points we’ve dropped the past few months. He can’t afford any more draws or losses to teams who’ll finish in the bottom half come the end of the season.

Even if OGS sees out the rest of the season with results, it would be sensible and reasonable to look for alternatives in the summer like Pochettino. He needs to develop a good play style going to beat most teams. He can’t just have gameraising and getting decent results playing the big boys then feck up against the rest. He needs to get Champions League. If he can’t get either of these then he goes for me. It’s more weighted towards Europe than play style.

If he wants to survive a league finish resulting in Europa League or no Europe at all, then he has to be playing some pretty incredible football that would make Klopp and Guardiola look boring.

Absolutely correct. Top post.

Better manager? That's highly subjective because there is no assessment exam for football managers so unless they manage the same club and the same squad, it's hardly even worth debating. He had a long term contract with no pressure to win things and abundant influx of talent, and crumbled the moment there were expectations.

He is a good manager but just making a blanket statement that he is better than Ole or anyone else for that matter seems juvenile to me.

I would imagine that's because you are biased toward Solskjaer and thus unable to see the reality that Pochettino is objectively proven a far better manager than Ole Solskjaer.

Like, not even in the same ballpark.

How come other massive clubs around Europe don’t need this long term strategy to at least finish top four in their respective leagues? I agree we didn’t prepare for SAF’s departure but this romanticism rubbish needs to stop. You either come into a club like United and start getting results quickly at least a moderate standard at the beginning, as in top four form, or the fans and board are going to be on your back. It’s not rocket science. Where we are right now is unacceptable, there’s no two ways about it.

Agree completely - and even if this was some mammoth rebuild that takes multiple seasons, why on Earth would you employ a clueless lower league manager to oversee it...?

It's almost as if Woodward just wants a stooge in place while he signs the players that he and the Glazers want...

 

[Majima]

It's a very overlooked point. And a very basic one.

Jose was said to be massively underachieving with what he had, a major part of why he was fired.

Ole failed to make top 4 with that same squad - free pass. Ole then trimmed that squad down and now looks highly unlikely to make top 4 yet again - seemingly another free pass.

All it goes to show is that the board have pulled a masterstroke. All they needed to do to quell unrest among the fans was plaster a friendly, familiar, smiling face over the gaping wound and ta-da.

It's something that could genuinely have a study or paper written on it, it's quite impressive and a bit scary.

Yet Spurs are 14th, 11 points behind top 4, have sacked Pochettino and installed Mourinho, fully expecting top 4 at the end of the season. He even has come out today, said he expects no incomings in January, but has insisted that Spurs can win the title next season.

The difference in their approach is astounding.

I agree, a paper needs to be written about the board's successful brainwashing of the fan base. It is scary indeed.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

What if the assumed long term strategy is based on a completely wrong approach?

Then we're obviously fecked.

That's the point, though: if the people in charge of hiring new managers have no idea what they're doing, we are - again, and indeed, fecked. Unless they just luck out and hire an absolute genius who will deliver the goods in spite of everything that's structurally wrong at United. That doesn't seem very bloody likely, though, does it - and the likes of Poch or Allegri really don't strike me as fitting that bill (nobody does - it would have to be, literally, SAF Mk2).

 

[Chesterlestreet]

but has insisted that Spurs can win the title next season.

Come on.

What did he say when he was hired by Woody?

 

[Majima]

You have to be realistic about where the club actually is in terms of foundations and structure. You can't just insist on "standards" as if United were a club any manager post Fergie should have challenging for the biggest prizes per default.

United didn't have a proper plan for dealing with losing Fergie - that is now very obvious.

Do we have it now - finally? feck knows, I'm very skeptical myself. But talking about "lowering the standards" is neither here nor there. United need a long term strategy - an approach to building the club back up again. That means - yes - that being X points off the top is irrelevant for the time being.

Not challenging by default. But the size of the club means we should expect to be at the front of innovation in the game. Why have we still not modernised the club structure to sustain managerial changes? Managers only last a few years now, so are we going to continue changing strategy like we have been doing in the past?

This 'plan' is something that should have been installed years ago. It goes by default if you expect to win trophies. What has the board been doing these past 6 years then? It also is not exclusive to OGS. We can execute the plan without him perfectly fine.

When you add everything up, it all points to sheer incompetence from top down. That's why i refuse to budge an inch on the standards, as it let's them off the hook too. The way i see it is, if you start settling for second best as a fan base as a whole, with these people in charge, then good luck achieving anything at all.
As rhyme animal just posted:

if this was some mammoth rebuild that takes multiple seasons, why on Earth would you employ a clueless lower league manager to oversee it...? It's almost as if Woodward just wants a stooge in place while he signs the players that he and the Glazers want...

I see it the exact same way too. Is Solskjaer an elite manager? If you do not believe he is, then why wouldn't you move heaven and earth to bring in the very best available?

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Yet Spurs are 14th, 11 points behind top 4, have sacked Pochettino and installed Mourinho, fully expecting top 4 at the end of the season. He even has come out today, said he expects no incomings in January, but has insisted that Spurs can win the title next season.

The difference in their approach is astounding.

I agree, a paper needs to be written about the board's successful brainwashing of the fan base. It is scary indeed.

If I was a sociology student or academic I would be all over it. You could link it to the bigger picture too of worldwide politics and delivering horrible news/information with a friendly face/mask.

 

[El Jefe]

Better manager? That's highly subjective because there is no assessment exam for football managers so unless they manage the same club and the same squad, it's hardly even worth debating. He had a long term contract with no pressure to win things and abundant influx of talent, and crumbled the moment there were expectations.

He is a good manager but just making a blanket statement that he is better than Ole or anyone else for that matter seems juvenile to me.

I don't like the term Ole cult but posts like this is why that term exists. Pochettino is a far better manager than Ole, it shouldn't be hard to admit that even if you want Ole to stay.

 

[Kemizee]

So just because they don't think the same way you do, they are deluded ?

Nope but because most if not every non-united fan would never mutter that Ole is a better manager than Pochettino let alone defend it. There is objective thinking and there is outright delusion. Okay let's put it this way : watch out for Pochettino's next club and how many top caliber teams will want him to be their manager and then watch out for Ole's too when the inevitable sack happens.