Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Tel074]

The absolute minimum requirement for any manager at United is top 4/qualify for CL by any means.

This dropping of standards and "let's see where we are in a year" is going to be detrimental to the long term prospects of the club.

We will start losing revenue from sponsors, we will struggle to attract to players, our name will only take us so far, so we'll have to potentially break wage structures to attract marquee signings.

We do not have the luxury of time. One more season outside the CL we lose millions and continue to highlight to new players we are now becoming a spent force.

The strategy of "smaller" clubs highlights how archaic our setup is. Using Leicester as an example they won the league and rather rest on their laurels they have invested in the future. They have an exciting young squad, with a progressive (albeit irritating) manager, they currently look good for top 4 spot with nothing from other clubs to suggest they could take their spot. They have not accepted the mediocrity we are currently accepting and have been ruthless with managers. Some may bemoan this lack of loyalty but they are reaping the fruits now.

We as a club and a fan base are far too sentimental. Exactly like Liverpool up until very recently. There's not a single supporter who doesn't want to see Solskjaer succeed, but this romantic idea of of giving him as much time as he needs is absurd. A few good results aside in the last month we have regressed overall in the last 12 months.

So we sack another manager and when he's shite with this embarrassing squad we sack him then we let him chuck 150 million at it and then sack him and so on .. Top 4 means nothing at the moment with our club because we have a squad that is top 6 at best . Our name doesn't allow us to automatically have the right to finish top 4 .

You are right about Leicester and maybe if we had the owners they do and the people running their club then we would be sitting top 4. But we don't ..

Imo what is happening at the club this season is a positive. We at last are getting rid of the crap and confident this time next year we won't have 3 or 4 of the ones still here now . Yes we all want to see United challenging but the reality is the owners and the people running the club have allowed us to fall this far . I understand your point of view but I totally disagree with it and I'm glad the majority of our match going fans feel the same way as I do

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

You are on crack .. Jesus Christ wouldn't have this United squad in the top 4 . If we keep our main 13 or so players fit then maybe we have a chance of top 4 but that isn't going to happen . Unless we buy well in January then we will finish top 6 at best and squad for squad that's probably where we are. This obsession for top 4 atm is bonkers . Let this team be re build have a little patience and see where we are this time next year

Honestly posts like this worry me, it's just the 'drip drip effect' of having your expectations of what United should be doing lowered, we should be smashing top 4 as the bare minimum, and be angry that we aren't challenging for the title, the only thing that has changed these expectations are the people that are running the club, and the decisions they have taken post Fergie, yet we still have the same people in place making the decisions for the club, and people are expecting a different outcome, and screaming at others to be patient, the reality is we have absolutely nothing to hang our hat on for anything much changing overall.

 

[momo83]

Where would Poch (remember him? the old flavour of the month) have Leicester? The same place he has Spurs?

Your posts are a bit muppetry but Poch is still a class manager and no doubt will be great wherever he goes next.

 

[momo83]

Honestly posts like this worry me, it's just the 'drip drip effect' of having your expectations of what United should be doing lowered, we should be smashing top 4 as the bare minimum, and be angry that we aren't challenging for the title, the only thing that has changed these expectations are the people that are running the club, and the decisions they have taken post Fergie, yet we still have the same people in place making the decisions for the club, and people are expecting a different outcome, and screaming at others to be patient, the reality is we have absolutely nothing to hang our hat on for anything much changing overall.

Exactly. People forget that this squad last season almost finished 4th

 

[Leftback99]

Your posts are a bit muppetry but Poch is still a class manager and no doubt will be great wherever he goes next.

But not doing great where he currently is.

 

[Withnail]

But not doing great where he currently is.

There's at lot of issues at play there, not least Levy's stinginess coming home to roost.

 

[Red Devil's Advocate]

There's at lot of issues at play there, not least Levy's stinginess coming home to roost.

But then there are lot of issues at play out here as well. Not having a consistent philosophy, inept DoF/CEO, and muppets for fans.

 

[Leftback99]

There's at lot of issues at play there, not least Levy's stinginess coming home to roost.

Rodgers would have that Spurs squad top of the league.

 

[Withnail]

But then there are lot of issues at play out here as well. Not having a consistent philosophy, inept DoF/CEO, and muppets for fans.

 

[M Bison]

When people criticise Ole and claim other managers employ a “progressive style” what does that actually mean?

Always sounds such a woolly phrase.

 

[Withnail]

Rodgers would have that Spurs squad top of the league.

He'd pull out the old envelope trick and everything would be sorted

 

[Red Devil's Advocate]

Rodgers would have that Spurs squad top of the league.

Unfortunately, Rodgers isn't that good either.
You have to consider the fact that Leicester have had a consistent group of players for the last 4 years with mostly upgrades (bar the sale of Kante).
So would you like Ranieri as our manager since he managed to win the PL with Leicester, (and hence must be the better manager).

 

[Red Devil's Advocate]

When people criticise Ole and claim other managers employ a “progressive style” what does that actually mean?

Always sounds such a woolly phrase.

It's all about kneejerk reactions to results rather than the progress. It won't be any surprise if most of our fanbase grew up during the nineties and noughties and hence feel entitled to win. You need to look at United during 2003-04. Clueless and toothless despite all the experienced players and despite having a fantastic manager. No one called out for his head back then, now, did we?
Many of us would have fired SAF for playing Rafael /Fabio in midfield over Pogba. Worked out well, right?

 

[Leftback99]

Unfortunately, Rodgers isn't that good either.
You have to consider the fact that Leicester have had a consistent group of players for the last 4 years with mostly upgrades (bar the sale of Kante).
So would you like Ranieri as our manager since he managed to win the PL with Leicester, (and hence must be the better manager).

I was joking. You would think Rodgers is that good the way many are talking about him. If he'd have us 3rd or 4th (like many are saying) where would he have a squad (Spurs) pretty much everyone would have agreed was better than us pre-season (and still would)?

His results can be used to bash Ole but it's funny they can also be used to bash previous golden boy Poch. All different circumstances and pointless saying x would do better than y.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Exactly. People forget that this squad last season almost finished 4th

People forget that this squad( without 150mil new defenders) finished second year and a half ago.

 

[Withnail]

People forget that this squad( without 150mil new defenders) finished second year and a half ago.

Hardly... A lot of the regulars in that team have either left or are not even good enough for the bench.

 

[Leftback99]

People forget that this squad( without 150mil new defenders) finished second year and a half ago.

Minus an £85m striker, plus whatever you want to value Herrera, Sanchez, Smalling, Darmian, Fellaini at.

Leicester won the league 3 and a half years ago. What relevance does finishing 2nd have? On that basis is the top 4 from last season just set now because why should they do any worse?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Minus an £85m striker, plus whatever you want to value Herrera, Sanchez, Smalling, Darmian, Fellaini at.

Leicester won the league 3 and a half years ago. What relevance does finishing 2nd have?

All those players Ole wanted out because he decided that they are not good for his pacey, attacking high pressing football. And instead of them he got 3 new players. So if those players are that shit then that 2nd place is even bigger thing, no?
That 2nd place is relevant when every pro Ole poster is saying that this squad is shit and that top 4 is too much to ask. One poster said that Jesus could not do it (so Jose is Jesus i guess?).

 

[Leftback99]

All those players Ole wanted out because he decided that they are not good for his pacey, attacking high pressing football. And instead of them he got 3 new players. So if those players were that shit then that 2nd place is even bigger thing, no?
That 2nd place is relevant when every pro Ole poster is saying that this squad is shit and that top 4 is too much to ask. One poster said that Jesus could not do it (so Jose is Jesus i guess?).

The 2nd place was an over achievement as Mourinho himself said so. 5th is our average position since SAF retired, why focus on the one off?

I'm pro 'giving Ole a fair chance' and i expected 6th pre season. If thing had gone our way (injuries etc) we might have been in with a chance of 4th, but they haven't.

 

[Andycoleno9]

The 2nd place was an over achievement as Mourinho himself said so. 5th is our average position since SAF retired, why focus on the one off?

Because our squad is good enough to be in top 4. And because Man Utd should never ever accept anything bellow that.
To build a squad to challenge Liverpool and City needs time but top4 should be a must.

 

[Leftback99]

Because our squad is good enough to be in top 4. And because Man Utd should never ever accept anything bellow that.
To build a squad to challenge Liverpool and City needs time but top4 should be a must.

The 'top 6' would all say the same thing.

 

[Tel074]

Honestly posts like this worry me, it's just the 'drip drip effect' of having your expectations of what United should be doing lowered, we should be smashing top 4 as the bare minimum, and be angry that we aren't challenging for the title, the only thing that has changed these expectations are the people that are running the club, and the decisions they have taken post Fergie, yet we still have the same people in place making the decisions for the club, and people are expecting a different outcome, and screaming at others to be patient, the reality is we have absolutely nothing to hang our hat on for anything much changing overall.

I think we do . The clear out on the summer the 3 positive signings plus DDG new deal . Man United should be smashing top 4 I agree but this United has been run into the ground and the squad we have shouldn't be smashing top 4.

Stop the Ole hate . Start the Glazer hate

 

[momo83]

People forget that this squad( without 150mil new defenders) finished second year and a half ago.

Those very people also forget that they deemed finishing 2nd a failure because we were x amount of points away from City.

How far standards have lowered. Very clever from the Glazers. Kronke at Arsenal will probably do the same and hire Kanu as Arsenal manager once Emery gets sacked.

 

[Fox_Chrys]

Odd one for you guys. Overall results obviously poor for a club of your stature, yet he has thrashed Chelsea, Beat Leicester, and is the only manager to take points off Liverpool this season.

 

[Bobcat]

Big positive plan for a club of United’s stature to not give a feck whether they play in the Champions league as long as a BIG, GRAND, rebuild is in place.

If this is the case, then the club is in grave danger if your top players don't challenge themselves and get angry at not competing for the big trophies. I would hate a United side whose players are content with not qualifying for the Champs League as long as they rake in huge weekly wages and you never know how players think. No one predicted Herrera's departure. You just never know how footbal pans out.

You seem too focused on what is two feet ahead of you when we all need to look further ahead. Sure, CL brings money and status, but the club does not live or die based on that factor. If we sign players who are just here for money or glory, you end up with a bunch of mercenaries who does not really care for the club and they feck off once a more tempting offer comes along. Not saying CL football is a bad thing, but its not like the name Man Utd is going to fade into obscurity just because we're not in the CL

And no, rebuilding for the long term does not make short term success unattainable, but it makes it a lot harder, especially regarding new squad acquisitions. If you build for the long term, you rather go for a talented, but inconsistent 21 year old, where as if you want instant success you go for an experienced 28 year old or a big name signing who might or might not really want to play for you. The last couple of years, we've had WAY to many signings in the latter category and while they have lifted us temporary in some cases, they've all been damaging to the clubs overall health in the long term. Its like having bacon and eggs for breakfast and then two pints and a steak for lunch every day. It sure all hell tastes good then and there, but do that for long enough and you will feel the consequences sooner or later.

We're all sick of this rebuild nonsense, but it should have started 6 years ago and been finished by now, but it never did. Moyes in reality had a massive job at hand considering the squad Fergie had left him was nearing the end of its life cycle, but Moyes naively though just adding Mata and Fellaini to the mix would suffice, when in reality we needed at least 4-5 young players to offload and learn from the wealth of experience that was in that team. Then came LvG along and went complete muppet in the market, sold off loads of players and bought even more and all we really have to show for it today is Martial. Then Jose came and does as he always does, tries to achieve instant success, it failed and when it all came crashing down he ultimately had left the squad in a worse state then when he arrived. Its been one step forward two steps back the entire way

What we need are players who are young, talented and wants to play for us for the right reasons. I think Ole has realized that, and based on his transfers and what he has said in the press, hes taken the whole rebuilding job a lot more seriously than the other managers before him. Sacking a manger mid season is a pretty extreme measure and it rarely makes a big difference really. Yeah, we did it with Moyes and Jose, but that was pretty different. Moyes got sacked with 4 games left and top 4 was mathematically impossible, he had also lost the dressing room completely and considering we had walked the league a year before, expectations were naturally higher. Jose had a complete meltdown, lost the dressing room and tried to burn the club down with him. He had to go. Now though, despite results being pretty shite, we see players who are not in international duty organize their own training camp in Dubai despite Ole giving them time off. That's a pretty positive sign if you ask me.

 

[b82REZ]

I think we do . The clear out on the summer the 3 positive signings plus DDG new deal . Man United should be smashing top 4 I agree but this United has been run into the ground and the squad we have shouldn't be smashing top 4.

Stop the Ole hate . Start the Glazer hate

Ahh that explains a lot.

Just because a lot us recognise Solskjaer is not the man to take this team forward I don't think you'll find a single person who doesn't attribute the majority of the blame at the feet of Woodward and the Glazers.

These two problems are not one and the same. Ole is not a good enough manager for us and the board and owners are useless bafoons who couldn't arrange a piss up in a brewery, changes are needed at every level of the club.

 

[Greck]

Odd one for you guys. Overall results obviously poor for a club of your stature, yet he has thrashed Chelsea, Beat Leicester, and is the only manager to take points off Liverpool this season.

I think similar to Jose his direct style really seems to match up favourably against a lot of the best teams. Three, four forward passes and you're in their box with all the space in the world.

 

[ReddBalls]

Edit: Double post.

 

[ReddBalls]

For your argument that Rodgers inherits good teams and has no record of building a squad, neither does Solskjaer. In fact Ole's career, first stint with Molde aside, is a relegation standard manager in England and a mid table manager in Norway.

I'll answer this, as it is regarding the points I made. How can you claim that Solskjær has no record of buidling a squad? Ole built Molde from top to bottom culturally and squad wise and got them their very first league trophy. He followed that with another league trophy the year after, and since then they have won the league twice with the very same spine Solskjær established in his time there.

Oh, and in 2013, when they finished 6th, he still won the cup (which is of equal prominence to the FA cup in England). The second time they finished 6th under Solskjær, he took Molde to the quarter finals of the EL winning a group consisting of Ajax (EL final the year after), Fenerbahce and Celtic. In the quarter finals that year they lost to Sevilla, who won the tournament. His record in the Norwegian league is 1-1-6-6-2-2. An average league position of 3rd, two trophies and two runner-up spots is hardly midtable.

Obviously, The Norwegian league is a lot weaker than the Prem, but contrary to England, Norway has this juggernaut called Rosenborg. The Bayern, Juventus or Celtic of Norway, which has infinitely more resources than all the other clubs in the league. Guess who won the league between Molde's wins? Yep. Rosenborg. It's not as Molde is a particulary rich club either, in 2017 for instance, they only had the fifth largest budget in the league.

Solskjær winning the league in Norway has similarities to Fergie winning the league in Scotland with Aberdeen og Klopp winning in Germany with Dortmund. It does not make him either one of those, but it at least shows that he has the ability to build a winning culture at a club, recruit the right type of players and coach them. Taking on Bayern, Celtic/Rangers or Rosenborg requires the same winners instinct, regardless of the quality of the league.

On a side note: Almost everyone here wants Haaland. Guess who recruited him to Molde, gave him his first senior appearances and coached him? Right. And if Solskjær is a shit manager because he only proved himself in a shit league, why do people even want Haaland anyway? He is playing for a dominant team in an equally shit league. He'll obviously be out of depth in the PL, just like championship level player Daniel James.

Cardiff was a disaster, but the club was in total meltdown when he took over. They had only won 3 of 20 games at that time. The challenge was monumental and he did not succeed. But who would? Only a miracle greater than Leicester's great escape under Pearson would make that happen. Is Klopp and Pochettino relegation standard managers because they both got relegated at one time? Would you rather have Nigel Pearson as United manager because he avoided relegation when it was certain? Do you see how absurd this line of thinking is?

The Cardiff stint even has a silver lining. Willingness to take on such a challenge and coping with it shows that he has a strong character and is able to work under the immense pressure he no doubt experiences at United.

None of the things mentioned here makes him a better manager than Rodgers, but elaborates on my previous point on the different characteristics of the jobs they have taken.

TL;DR: Claiming Solskjær has no record of building a squad and was a midtable manager in Norway is bullcrap. Cardiff would have been relegated anyway.

PS! United actually had similarities with both Molde and Cardiff when Ole got hired: A nearly club for the last 6 years (Molde was that for even longer) in total meltdown.

 

[momo83]

When people criticise Ole and claim other managers employ a “progressive style” what does that actually mean?

Always sounds such a woolly phrase.

It basically means what Ole said when first arrived... a style than can break teams down through high press, passing, but also a side that can counter.

Take the game vs Brighton.. very entertaining. But very primitive, after 11 months it shows exactly why Ole is a terrible coach. All our chances came in situations where our CM’s were deep in our half they won the ball and played a long pass to one of our 3 forwards who then ran and ran, passed it between themselves and scored.

Never once under Ole have I seen our CM’s push forward and play in the opposition half with our fb’s etc passing it around and unlocking defences.

 

[momo83]

I'll answer this, as it is regarding the points I made. How can you claim that Solskjær has no record of buidling a squad? Ole built Molde from top to bottom culturally and squad wise and got them their very first league trophy. He followed that with another league trophy the year after, and since then they have won the league twice with the very same spine Solskjær established in his time there.

Oh, and in 2013, when they finished 6th, he still won the cup (which is of equal prominence to the FA cup in England). The second time they finished 6th under Solskjær, he took Molde to the quarter finals of the EL winning a group consisting of Ajax (EL final the year after), Fenerbahce and Celtic. In the quarter finals that year they lost to Sevilla, who won the tournament. His record in the Norwegian league is 1-1-6-6-2-2. An average league position of 3rd, two trophies and two runner-up spots is hardly midtable.

Obviously, The Norwegian league is a lot weaker than the Prem, but contrary to England, Norway has this juggernaut called Rosenborg. The Bayern, Juventus or Celtic of Norway, which has infinitely more resources than all the other clubs in the league. Guess who won the league between Molde's wins? Yep. Rosenborg. It's not as Molde is a particulary rich club either, in 2017 for instance, they only had the fifth largest budget in the league.

Solskjær winning the league in Norway has similarities to Fergie winning the league in Scotland with Aberdeen og Klopp winning in Germany with Dortmund. It does not make him either one of those, but it at least shows that he has the ability to build a winning culture at a club, recruit the right type of players and coach them. Taking on Bayern, Celtic/Rangers or Rosenborg requires the same winners instinct, regardless of the quality of the league.

On a side note: Almost everyone here wants Haaland. Guess who recruited him to Molde, gave him his first senior appearances and coached him? Right. And if Solskjær is a shit manager because he only proved himself in a shit league, why do people even want Haaland anyway? He is playing for a dominant team in an equally shit league. He'll obviously be out of depth in the PL, just like championship level player Daniel James.

Cardiff was a disaster, but the club was in total meltdown when he took over. They had only won 3 of 20 games at that time. The challenge was monumental and he did not succeed. But who would? Only a miracle greater than Leicester's great escape under Pearson would make that happen. Is Klopp and Pochettino relegation standard managers because they both got relegated at one time? Would you rather have Nigel Pearson as United manager because he avoided relegation when it was certain? Do you see how absurd this line of thinking is?

The Cardiff stint even has a silver lining. Willingness to take on such a challenge and coping with it shows that he has a strong character and is able to work under the immense pressure he no doubt experiences at United.

None of the things mentioned here makes him a better manager than Rodgers, but elaborates on my previous point on the different characteristics of the jobs they have taken.

TL;DR: Claiming Solskjær has no record of building a squad and was a midtable manager in Norway is bullcrap. Cardiff would have been relegated anyway.

PS! United actually had similarities with both Molde and Cardiff when Ole got hired: A nearly club for the last 6 years (Molde was that for even longer) in total meltdown.

Are the Norwegians trying to sway the sack poll results?

 

[momo83]

Ahh that explains a lot.

Just because a lot us recognise Solskjaer is not the man to take this team forward I don't think you'll find a single person who doesn't attribute the majority of the blame at the feet of Woodward and the Glazers.

These two problems are not one and the same. Ole is not a good enough manager for us and the board and owners are useless bafoons who couldn't arrange a piss up in a brewery, changes are needed at every level of the club.

The board have hired an incompetent legend to shut the fans up and it’s working. Anyone else with Ole’s managerial CV was hired and after 11 months this was his record the fans would be rioting. But because it’s Ole fans have allowed standards to get lowered, and even criticism of the Glazers is at the lowest it’s ever been.

 

[Bobcat]

When people criticise Ole and claim other managers employ a “progressive style” what does that actually mean?

Always sounds such a woolly phrase.

Its just an empty phrase that gets thrown around, like "patterns of play". And i find all this Rodgers arselicking pretty unsavory

1. The man is a complete twat (not that it matters for his ability) but i could stomach this fawning over him a bit better if he wasn't such a insufferable bellend
2. Hes also an Ex-Liverpool coach, which conveniently gets ignored when talking about his achievements. He finished 7th, 2nd, 6th, 10th(sacked). The same season he was sacked from Liverpool, Leichester won the league under a different manager, so its not like Leichester had not tasted success until he came along
3. Hes had a flying start to the campaign no doubt, but its not like the season is over and hes won anything yet

It basically means what Ole said when first arrived... a style than can break teams down through high press, passing, but also a side that can counter.

Take the game vs Brighton.. very entertaining. But very primitive, after 11 months it shows exactly why Ole is a terrible coach. All our chances came in situations where our CM’s were deep in our half they won the ball and played a long pass to one of our 3 forwards who then ran and ran, passed it between themselves and scored.

Never once under Ole have I seen our CM’s push forward and play in the opposition half with our fb’s etc passing it around and unlocking defences.

Primitive? You do realize we would be absolutely woeful if we tried to play possession with this current crop of players, right? We had more than enough of that nonsense with LvG and to play that kind of football you need a squad of very technically adapt players. We dont have that. We have plenty of speed and just what happens to be one the best long range passers in the world

And that last part is just flat out wrong. Or i guess i must have been imagining things when McTomminay scored vs Arsenal? Or Pogba maurading forward and winning a penalty vs Wolves?

 

[Leftback99]

It basically means what Ole said when first arrived... a style than can break teams down through high press, passing, but also a side that can counter.

Take the game vs Brighton.. very entertaining. But very primitive, after 11 months it shows exactly why Ole is a terrible coach. All our chances came in situations where our CM’s were deep in our half they won the ball and played a long pass to one of our 3 forwards who then ran and ran, passed it between themselves and scored.

Never once under Ole have I seen our CM’s push forward and play in the opposition half with our fb’s etc passing it around and unlocking defences.

Terrible 'coach' but yet we're:

- 4th for shots per game,
- 5th for shots on target per game,
- 4th for xg scored,
- 1st for xg against.

Without our most creative player and best striker for most of the season.

The strange thing is when I watch other PL games I don't see 19 other teams passing it around the opppositions box because their coaching is so much better than ours. I've been told on here Norwich, Brighton and Leicester are far better coached than us this season, but they couldn't lay a glove on us.

 

[Strelok]

You seem too focused on what is two feet ahead of you when we all need to look further ahead. Sure, CL brings money and status, but the club does not live or die based on that factor. If we sign players who are just here for money or glory, you end up with a bunch of mercenaries who does not really care for the club and they feck off once a more tempting offer comes along. Not saying CL football is a bad thing, but its not like the name Man Utd is going to fade into obscurity just because we're not in the CL

And no, rebuilding for the long term does not make short term success unattainable, but it makes it a lot harder, especially regarding new squad acquisitions. If you build for the long term, you rather go for a talented, but inconsistent 21 year old, where as if you want instant success you go for an experienced 28 year old or a big name signing who might or might not really want to play for you. The last couple of years, we've had WAY to many signings in the latter category and while they have lifted us temporary in some cases, they've all been damaging to the clubs overall health in the long term. Its like having bacon and eggs for breakfast and then two pints and a steak for lunch every day. It sure all hell tastes good then and there, but do that for long enough and you will feel the consequences sooner or later.

We're all sick of this rebuild nonsense, but it should have started 6 years ago and been finished by now, but it never did. Moyes in reality had a massive job at hand considering the squad Fergie had left him was nearing the end of its life cycle, but Moyes naively though just adding Mata and Fellaini to the mix would suffice, when in reality we needed at least 4-5 young players to offload and learn from the wealth of experience that was in that team. Then came LvG along and went complete muppet in the market, sold off loads of players and bought even more and all we really have to show for it today is Martial. Then Jose came and does as he always does, tries to achieve instant success, it failed and when it all came crashing down he ultimately had left the squad in a worse state then when he arrived. Its been one step forward two steps back the entire way

What we need are players who are young, talented and wants to play for us for the right reasons. I think Ole has realized that, and based on his transfers and what he has said in the press, hes taken the whole rebuilding job a lot more seriously than the other managers before him. Sacking a manger mid season is a pretty extreme measure and it rarely makes a big difference really. Yeah, we did it with Moyes and Jose, but that was pretty different. Moyes got sacked with 4 games left and top 4 was mathematically impossible, he had also lost the dressing room completely and considering we had walked the league a year before, expectations were naturally higher. Jose had a complete meltdown, lost the dressing room and tried to burn the club down with him. He had to go. Now though, despite results being pretty shite, we see players who are not in international duty organize their own training camp in Dubai despite Ole giving them time off. That's a pretty positive sign if you ask me.

Another good post Sir.

 

[momo83]

Its just an empty phrase that gets thrown around, like "patterns of play". And i find all this Rodgers arselicking pretty unsavory

1. The man is a complete twat (not that it matters for his ability) but i could stomach this fawning over him a bit better if he wasn't such a insufferable bellend
2. Hes also an Ex-Liverpool coach, which conveniently gets ignored when talking about his achievements. He finished 7th, 2nd, 6th, 10th(sacked). The same season he was sacked from Liverpool, Leichester won the league under a different manager, so its not like Leichester had not tasted success until he came along
3. Hes had a flying start to the campaign no doubt, but its not like the season is over and hes won anything yet



Primitive? You do realize we would be absolutely woeful if we tried to play possession with this current crop of players, right? We had more than enough of that nonsense with LvG and to play that kind of football you need a squad of very technically adapt players. We dont have that. We have plenty of speed and just what happens to be one the best long range passers in the world

And that last part is just flat out wrong. Or i guess i must have been imagining things when McTomminay scored vs Arsenal? Or Pogba maurading forward and winning a penalty vs Wolves?

Possession means different things. But for context Biesla changed Leeds style of play over a summer with pretty much the same squad.

Under LVG. We were actually much better managed and coached then people realised. If any manger need money and time it was him. He played academy player like Blackett, McNaire, Jackson and made them look good when time has shown that they are actually not very good. Yet still in his final season only missed on CL due to goal difference.

I’m sure a quick search on here will show people hyping up those players as the next Stam, De Boer and Maldini.

As for the lack of creativity and goals under LVG he simply missed fullbacks, a number 10, and paid the price for relying on Rooney.

Anyways. What I’m talking about in regards to Ole’s style is that he is one dimensional...as a manager once he is done no manager in history will have done as much to regress this great club then Ole.

 

[momo83]

Terrible 'coach' but yet we're:

- 4th for shots per game,
- 5th for shots on target per game,
- 4th for xg scored,
- 1st for xg against.

Without our most creative player and best striker for most of the season.

The strange thing is when I watch other PL games I don't see 19 other teams passing it around the opppositions box because their coaching is so much better than ours. I've been told on here Norwich, Brighton and Leicester are far better coached than us this season, but they couldn't lay a glove on us.

I said we’d beat Norwich by 2-3 goals simply because we had the better players and Norwich are genuinely crap.

Rodgers is clearly a superior coach to Ole, the coach at Brighton is clearly doing a better job then Ole, would the coach at Brighton improve United ? I don’t know and wouldn’t want to find out, but I’m certain if Ole went to manage Brighton he’d only feck things up.

 

[Bobcat]

Possession means different things. But for context Biesla changed Leeds style of play over a summer with pretty much the same squad.

Under LVG. We were actually much better managed and coached then people realised. If any manger need money and time it was him. He played academy player like Blackett, McNaire, Jackson and made them look good when time has shown that they are actually not very good. Yet still in his final season only missed on CL due to goal difference.

I’m sure a quick search on here will show people hyping up those players as the next Stam, De Boer and Maldini.

As for the lack of creativity and goals under LVG he simply missed fullbacks, a number 10, and paid the price for relying on Rooney.

Anyways. What I’m talking about in regards to Ole’s style is that he is one dimensional...as a manager once he is done no manager in history will have done as much to regress this great club then Ole.

Yeah, and they are still in the Championship where you might get away with something like that, but in the PL you will get found out very fast if you try to force a style upon the wrong kinds of players.

LvG had us over-coached. He wanted to control every single detail of how we played and killed all signs of creativity and joy in the process. Dont try to re-write history here. LvG at United was boring as fecking shite. Academy players always gets hyped up. That's just the way it is. Two good games in a row and people will proclaim them the next Messi, then they turn out to not be good at all. And him relying on a declining Rooney is his fecking fault and no one but his. He sent Kagawa away for 8 million who would have been perfect for his system.

That last sentence is just pure nonsense. If Ole was sacked today he would have left the club in better shape than when he arrived. That cant be said for either Moyes, LvG or Jose

 

[Leftback99]

I said we’d beat Norwich by 2-3 goals simply because we had the better players and Norwich are genuinely crap.

Rodgers is clearly a superior coach to Ole, the coach at Brighton is clearly doing a better job then Ole, would the coach at Brighton improve United ? I don’t know and wouldn’t want to find out, but I’m certain if Ole went to manage Brighton he’d only feck things up.

So quality of players matters now? I thought we should see these famed 'patterns of play' regardless. I'll remember that next time I hear injuries to our best players is 'just an excuse'.

 

[b82REZ]

Yeah, and they are still in the Championship where you might get away with something like that, but in the PL you will get found out very fast if you try to force a style upon the wrong kinds of players.

LvG had us over-coached. He wanted to control every single detail of how we played and killed all signs of creativity and joy in the process. Dont try to re-write history here. LvG at United was boring as fecking shite. Academy players always gets hyped up. That's just the way it is. Two good games in a row and people will proclaim them the next Messi, then they turn out to not be good at all. And him relying on a declining Rooney is his fecking fault and no one but his. He sent Kagawa away for 8 million who would have been perfect for his system.

That last sentence is just pure nonsense. If Ole was sacked today he would have left the club in better shape than when he arrived. That cant be said for either Moyes, LvG or Jose

You clearly don't watch much of the Championship, it's a very competitive and demanding league. If anything, with the lesser quality of the players, its harder to implement different tactics on a squad.

Over coaching is better than seemingly no coaching whatsoever. At least there was a plan and style under LvG albeit a very dull style. But having said that, Solskjaer has hardly got us playing Total Football. The football is often as tumescent as LvG, whilst also having us languishing between mid table and the bottom half.

For all the things you blame LvG for, Ole is equally as guilty of similar things. He has persisted with underperforming players as much as van Gaal. You seem to have different standards for the two managers, despite an awful lot of similarities between their tenures.