That is exactly what I'm thinking. The only 2 sides to beat Chelsea and Leicester this season in the League are Liverpool and United. If these United players are good enough to get results against the better teams then there is no reason why these same players can not perform against the shit. Failing to beat the shit teams is all directly down to the manager being incapable of setting his team up properly.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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That is exactly what I'm thinking. The only 2 sides to beat Chelsea and Leicester this season in the League are Liverpool and United. If these United players are good enough to get results against the better teams then there is no reason why these same players can not perform against the shit. Failing to beat the shit teams is all directly down to the manager being incapable of setting his team up properly.
They knew all summer long that Fellaini & Herrera were gone, and that Lukaku was on his way out. The priority all summer long was to replace a centerback and a FB. So it was not just stupid, but completely idiotic to prioritize fixing a functional defense when we knew all summer long that our midfield was barebones and that we would rely on 2 young unproven strikers.
Ye buts that's never going to be Ole's fault, that's all on Woodward
We spent 130m on CB and RB alone and instead of paying the money for Longstaff who was quoted at 50m, we decided to take it and spend the majority of our budget on Maguire instead, then our interest in any midfielder died instantly. Yes, we prioritized the defense over midfield and attack, and decided to put our budget into them, which can only be the manager choice at the end. Our budged each summer post SAF never exceeded 150m and last summer was no exception.
Ole decided this to be the way he builds the squad with and he needs to take responsibility for it. Prior to Maguire deal he was saying we are going to get 1 or 2 more signings, one of them ended up being Maguirev. After summer, all his quotes were "we couldn't get the right target" and considering the only players we were linked to post Maguire deal was cheap options like Mandzukic and so, it's safe to come to the assumption he preferred spending the budget on Maguire rather than his earlier option in midfield (Longstaff) and probably tried to get a backup option striker after than and couldn't get Mandzukic so decided to enter the season like that.
What we do know is that all summer long there was substantial priority given to replacing a centerback and a fullback. The transfer saga for Maguire lasted weeks. The club weren’t going to spend £100 million more in a midfielder and a striker.
How would you feel flying in a transatlantic flight where the senior pilot with 15 years experience walks out to take a job in another airline, and instead of replacing him the airline manager decides the pilot out of flight school can do the job, along with one of the air hostess? Oh, but we hired some premium baggage handlers for a few million bucks to replace the ones we had, as these new handlers know how to throw the bags a better way. After all, the airline experience has to be built from the ground up. Well then, welcome to ManUnited Airlines.
I've gone full circle. I say sack him and get Allegri in before Arsenal do.
This is all made up bollocks
Ole wanted more players but Woodward/the transfer committee failed him
Anything that you don't want to believe is a made up bollocks, even Ole quotes himself who kept saying during summer we will get 1 or 2 more players pre Maguire :
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-reacts-to-man-utd-1-kristiansund-0
He also said Maguire was his number 1 transfer target :
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...ry-maguire-was-his-number-one-transfer-target
He also said several times during the season that there's one right target we couldn't get. He also said the next target will be a forward, no mention of midfield.
But now this will start the inevitable loop of saying" but not every thing being said is right, he's covering for Ed and just wants to keep positivity" etc, right? Because it is better to believe what we like to which is Ole was blameless for the summer and Ed was the sole responsible for it.
We spent 150m last summer on James, AWB and Maguire. That's what we have been spending every summer post SAF, and you can recheck our spending numbers and you will see that our budget has always been in that range. We were linked to Longstsff and he was quoted at 50m,so we decided to scrap the deal and went on and spent 80m on Maguire as he was Ole's "top target". If he wanted Longstsff that much and the budget was limited why didn't he tell Woodward to scrap Maguire deal, keep Smalling for 1 more season (and it's not like Maguire was going anywhere considering City backed off from the deal) and pay the money for the midfielder or even a forward?
It was his choice to use the money available for him in that way whatever to was a small or big budget and he has to take responsibility for that as simple as that.
Again lots of made up stuff based on media rumours and I don't agree with your maths on budgets either
IMO Ole was absolutely right to prioritise defence - it was our weakest point last season. And he said he wanted creativity (which to me means a midfielder) and goals (a forward).
Again Woodward is to blame for delaying the Lukaku deal which meant Ole has to wait until next window to get the replacement, how anyone thinks the timing of all that is Ole's fault is beyond me.
"Media rumors"
I'm not bringing articles or news. I'm bringing direct quotes from our own managers. If you want to believe what's in your head rather than what our current manager is saying himself, it's really up to you I guess. I bought evidence and you are free to accept them or accept your assumptions instead.He's free to prioritize his defense over midfield or not, it's his choice and he will have to live up with its consequences without all these excuses about how the board failed him etc. You prioritized signing Maguire over midfield, OK, your choice in how to build the squad and you will be responsible for the results. And no the quote was all talking about strikers and forwards.
As for Lukaku deal, beside the fact he didn't play a single minute in preseason and was always going to leave, it's actually a stupid transfer tactic to wait till you sell your player then go and sign his replacement. It's better to negotiate with a club over their player while you still have your own an holding all your cards in hand so that if the deal failed, you refuse to sell your player and keep him, thus the other club won't bully you, than to go the club after selling your main striker and is desperate to get their player rather let them bully you into overpaying for their player because they know you don't have other choice and will have to pay.
Van Gaal and Mourinho brought in a number of players and for the most part they were mistakes. While it's true Maguire and Wan-Bissaka were known gems, we still have to give Ole some credit for getting it right with both of them, even if you and I saw it the same way. Actually, there was a bit of controversy about the Maguire signing, particularly the price tag for him, but there's no doubt a consensus existed he was a quality CB. As for AWB, there was no quibbling about his price tag that I remember.
As for James, Giggs did rate him highly but really do Ole some credit for going out on a limb with his first signing being a championship player who, at least for some, was little more than a speed merchant and at best, was a project for the future.
I'm only suggesting that Ole's new signings go in the plus column for when rendering a verdict. We already know about what goes in the minus column and I have no quarrel with that. But the real issue at hand, in early November, is whether we sack Ole now and sign a new manager or let him ride out the season and evaluate what needs to get done then. The only way I can endorse sacking Ole right now, in November, is if we have a superior manager ready to go right now, in November. The pickings are slim (I assume everyone here agrees Mourinho and Wenger are no-gos and that Allardyce would be a humiliation), but Allegri is the man who has won major trophies and is available right now. I don't know if he would take the United job, but if he were up for it then let's get it done. But if we had to settle for Big Sam I'd rather ride out the season, when the pool of qualified candidates is broader than it is now.
-Building a young team, agree
-Playing direct attacking football with fluid strikers, high tempo passing, pressing, fast transitions, massively disagree. What you've just described requires a serious amount of coaching talent and I have no idea where people see that in Ole.
He does have great intentions but he lacks the acumen to see it through. He's mediocre to plain bad from a tactical and coaching standpoint. He's really just being given an A+ for having good intentions and buying decent because every other area has been a D to F. The good play isn't just going to come even if he buys 2 Sanchos. I feel like people don't even realise this. The mindset that a signing or 3 is going to unlock a team is really simplistic thinking from our fanbase. Such a signing has to be slotted into a preexisting system for that to happen and Ole doesn't seem to have a clue how to instill one. This is just really frustrating having to enlighten people about this. No doubt our CEO doesn't know this either. Our freaking CEO is a football casual
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Woodward is mostly to blame but I feel this was naivety/ weakness by Ole. We needed a strong manager to force transfers in the summer, but instead Ole was probably too nice about things.
It’s easy to blame Woodward. But Fellaini, Lukaku, and Smalling all left because it was made clear to them they didn’t fit the vision.
Incredible naivety. In terms of the board or Ole, I initially thought Ed had screwed us but I think it might be bit of both. I still find it incredible to think that our stated objective this season (in Ole's own words) was top 4 and maybe a trophy. The trophy in the form of a league cup or FA cup is doable but only the most optimistic of outlooks looks at that squad depth and thinks it gets top 4. It really looks like terrible planning.
I voted keep.
Based on his 3 signings who have all 3 improved the team. He knows a good player when he sees one and that to me is very promising. I can't wait to see who he wants for the midfield. Preferably this winter but that may be unlikely.
For now Utd might struggle to finish top 10 but imagine just one very good technical midfield player. Such a player might transform the shot down self confidence. James, Martial and Rashford are capable enough to punish teams, provided someone feeds them good passes. I also think it will present options for McTominay to penetrate more. I think he is the type of player who can play like that, he has shown very promising glimpses of that.
I really think he is a beast, influential and very confident. It's the first time since the Fergie days I really support one of our players.
Based on his 3 signings who have all 3 improved the team. He knows a good player when he sees one and that to me is very promising. I can't wait to see who he wants for the midfield. Preferably this winter but that may be unlikely.
For now Utd might struggle to finish top 10 but imagine just one very good technical midfield player. Such a player might transform the shot down self confidence. James, Martial and Rashford are capable enough to punish teams, provided someone feeds them good passes. I also think it will present options for McTominay to penetrate more. I think he is the type of player who can play like that, he has shown very promising glimpses of that.
I really think he is a beast, influential and very confident. It's the first time since the Fergie days I really support one of our players.
Any other manager can see that AWB and Maguire is a good player.
Question is whether they're 80M good?
At the start of the season he had Shaw, Pogba, Martial all fit.
Then boom three players go down and replaced with Young, Fred.
Rashford not on the left side he only seems to play on.
I think he was also hoping for more players.
We all know our record of bring players in, there is something else that people over look Ole uses the term "Right Players" a lot.
Mourinho has said he got Fred because we was worried he'd not get anyone else, Sanchez was because he was a world class player, Fellaini as panic buy.
Weirdly people seem to think that players see the name Manchester United and think I must go, not the case anymore City, Liverpool are the number one picks in our League now.
Not a single thing he posted is made up, all direct from the horses mouth.
Your post feels a lot like the pot calling the kettle black.
I'd love some of what you're smoking if you see signs of fast attacking football.
His Molde side managed that, and were actually quite good to watch. And yes, i know the PL is an entirely different beast from the Norwegian League, but we also saw glimpses of that during his first months. He also had a Pogba in world class form, Herrera making everything tick, and Matic had not lost his legs completely by then
The problem now is that we dont have anything that resembles a functioning midfield. Fred is a decent ball winner, but looks like a deer in traffic with the ball, i love McTomminay and think hes going to be great one day, but right now hes way to naive and wasteful in possession. Pereira can have a decentish game now and then, but ultimately is nowhere near good enough for this level. Everything goes through midfield, and right now its not working, not as a unit and not on an individual level.
I re watched some extended highlights from some of our worse games this season and i saw the same thing over and over. We win the ball back, and then spend ages, moving it up the pitch for a couple of reasons.
a) The CB (or whoever) has the ball lacks passing options and is forced to play it out wide to Young/AWB, who then dribbles up along the sideline and is then forced to play it back or sideways again. By then, any chance of exploiting the pace of James/Rashford has gone since the opponent defense has settled, the reason for this is mostly down to b) which is:
b) This isnt a dig on Fred/Pereira, but they are utterly incapable at holding onto the ball when put under any kind of pressure. If they receive the ball with their backs turned towards the opponent goal they get their pockets picked 9 times out of 10. Scott is the only one with the strength to hold off opposing players sneaking up from behind and opposing teams know this by now and they double mark him. Our own players also know this, so they dont pass it to Fred/Pereria unless they are in acres of space, because passing to them while they are getting closed down leads to a dangerous turnover in possession 9 times out of 10.
c) What we then resort to is hopeful punts from defense or having any of Lindelof, Scott or Fred try a long range pass, and while they have shown they can pick them out from time to time, it becomes way to obvious so opposing defenders are ready for them
d) Having Martial back is also big, and while he by no means is the best holding CF in the world, hes much better at it than Rashford. Granted that Martial was pretty shite vs B'mouth along with everyone else, but having someone who can hold the ball up front is critical. That being said though, his consistency worry me. Since the day he arrived he has looked like a world beater one game, and then utterly disinterested and shite the next one.
On the rare occasions we have looked dangerous, its because the opponent fullbacks/CB's have fallen asleep and let James/Rashford sneak in behind them. Seriously. Without Pogba all of our decent attacking moves have gone though the wings in some capacity. We have been very reliant on Pogba for some years now, but right now its simply absurd how much we rely on him. Him getting back would mean that Scott is afforded much more space since they have to worry about Pogba as well. Pogba is not critical because of his passing ability and goal threat (well that too), but mostly because it means we can actually move the ball through midfield with some urgency
Getting Pogba back wont solve everything though, the player we miss the most is actually Herrera and i maintain that signing Sanchez on those absurd wages while simultaneously not meeting Herrera's demands and letting him go for free has been the worst decision the club has made since 2013. Imo, Herrera is one of the most underappreciated players we have had at this club under several managers, but he was absolutely vital for how Ole wanted to play. Just look at these stats (under Ole):
With Herrera:
Goals scored: 2.2
Goals conceded: 0.4
Win%: 89
Without Herrera:
Goals scored: 1.6
Goals conceded: 1.88
Win%: 50
Herrera never was or never will be a highlight reel kind of player, but he was very much the engine of our midfield both in attack and defense. Fred will look more impressive than he is because he will bust a gut and manage to tackle someone closing down on goal, much like Jones, where as Herrera was more of a Ferdinand compared to Fred/Jones because he would have sniffed out the danger long before if happened and either closed down the dangerous passing lanes or put pressure on the ball so they were forced to slow down play or simply won possession himself before it became dangerous. Herrera was also vital to our attacking play, because despite not being as strong/technical as Pogba, he had amazing awareness and almost never lost possession because he could move into space with it and then find a teammate who was better positioned.
I agree, we could buy 6 Sanchos and we would still look bad because that's not where our problems lie. Our problem since August has been midfield and even with Pogba back it wont be enough. And no amount of coaching or wonderful tactics is going to solve this. Pereira has been on loans to Valencia and Granada with options to buy and neither of them deemed him good enough so he is sure as hell not good enough for the PL. Fred is also a lost cause. I dont hate them i just dont think they are anywhere near good enough. Considering we lost sold/released two CM's last year and Mata/Matic who was already heading towards retirement had gotten a year older it was absolutely criminal not buying a CM, preferably two. People say Ole is to blamed because he spent so much money on Maguire/AWB, and while i see the point here, a new RB/CB was also needed albeit not as critical as a new CM. In any case though, considering the money we got for Lukaku our net spend was only 70 million this summer. If that is the reason we did not get a CM or two then we are doomed because this squad needs investment upwards of 500 million, not 100 million here and there.
We dont know the exact reasons why, but if it is the case that we had offers on the table and Ole denied them because he wanted to go forward with our current midfield, hes the most naive manager in existence and that alone is a sackable offense. Getting Pogba back will help no doubt, but even then we are 2-3 players short of having anything resembling a decent midfield unit
tl;dr: We looked good/decent under Ole in January-April because a midfield of Pogba, Herrera, Matic managed to pull their weight and play the way he wanted. We now look utterly clueless because a midfield of McTomminay, Fred and Pereria does not work at all-
I find it so hilarious that people actually think he's still good enough to manage the club. It's worse than when we saw some of the David Moyes fans come out defending him till the end.
Hypothetical for you. If Ole manages to get a trophy, say a cup, and comes second in EL with this team. You'd still fire him first chance? You would think trophies is a lot to ask at the moment so if he did archive that it would be cause for reevaluation? Or at lest that's what I think.
Winning or losing becomes a habit, it's not something you just turn on and off. It takes constant struggle to create a winning habit. And likewise to get away from losing. You talk as if we have been losing because of some external factors, like injuries, and with full team back we can just start winning. Never gonna happen, takes proper mentality- which we lack, and superior coaching- I see no reason to assume it is any good. As anyone ole-out has been saying, there is no clear pattern of play that players can get habituated in. So these struggles will remain, maybe a few more goals due to some individual brilliance but meh.
It's very telling that not many actually think he's good enough but "we have bigger problems than the manager" and "who could replace him now?". The argument is never actually "Ole is a good manager and the right man to takes us forward".
The reality is that after spending 150m he should be doing much better, no ifs and buts. If he can't do better than relegation form with these players, then he is not good enough, as simple as that.
Winning cups and EL wasn't enough for previous manager when it all went wrong in the league. We're currently doing even worse than that.
I care about the league more if I'm judging a manager in this context because it's about building consistency and showing sustained progress in playing style, stamina and mentality among other areas. A cup win is great and EL would be fantastic but its very far fetched and not exactly the best barometer to judge a manager for a rebuild (Emery won 3 in a row and is regressing Arsenal).
But its all moot, as its clear Ole isn't coming close to top 4 from what we have seen.
"Media rumors"
He's free to prioritize his defense over midfield or not, it's his choice and he will have to live up with its consequences without all these excuses about how the board failed him etc. You prioritized signing Maguire over midfield, OK, your choice in how to build the squad and you will be responsible for the results. And no the quote was all talking about strikers and forwards.
As for Lukaku deal, beside the fact he didn't play a single minute in preseason and was always going to leave, it's actually a stupid transfer tactic to wait till you sell your player then go and sign his replacement. It's better to negotiate with a club over their player while you still have your own an holding all your cards in hand so that if the deal failed, you refuse to sell your player and keep him, thus the other club won't bully you, than to go the club after selling your main striker and is desperate to get their player rather let them bully you into overpaying for their player because they know you don't have other choice and will have to pay.
Well I agree but surely you dont think Ole is responsible for any of that? This is all on Woodward/the transfer team
That is where this discussion comes down to - I think everyone agrees that it was a bad decision to let Lukaku and Sanchez go without any replacement, but the question is who is to blame for that? For me its all on Woodward and his negotiation team, I am certain that Ole told Woodward before the summer that he didnt want either of them so the fact that neither left until very late in the window is not his responsibility.
and when i mention 'media rumours' Im talking on your points on Longstaff/Mandzukic etc which is all just speculation
And do you have a problem with any of them leaving? I dont
Most of the current problems at the club have been caused due to internal conflict at the club - a lot of this is down to Jose of course but he is not entirely to blame.
Ideally I would like to see Woodward replaced but that doesnt seem like happening so then it is extremely important that we get harmony behind the scenes, we will not get back to success until that happens. This is why Ole keeps talking about 'culture' and everyone being on the same page with a vision of going forward. I would say that this summer was not the time for Ole to start being too agressive, however if he doesnt get 1 or 2 players in the next window then he's certainly within his rights to start making a fuss.
Yeah I'm a national treasure. I make sure to CC Woodward everytime I post.Yeah it must be a real bummer that not everybody is as clued up as you
but seriously yes 'enlighten' because the notion that 1 or 3 signings will unlock Ole is almost ignorance of reality so pardon the seemingly patronising tone. Many of us who don't believe in him really are confused where the belief comes from
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Ole should have been sacked weeks ago. No results, no progress, no football system after 10 months in charge. Last season he used to blame Mourinho for lack of fitness, but he had a whole summer to fix that, he kicked some senior players like Alexis or Lukaku and he brought defenders for a lot of money but we are still the same team with same problems.
Our goal is probably top 4 and its 10 points away from us, maybe even more, because our goal difference is 2. It was a mistake to give him this job full time, but its even bigger mistake to hold him there for no good reason.
Our goal is probably top 4 and its 10 points away from us, maybe even more, because our goal difference is 2. It was a mistake to give him this job full time, but its even bigger mistake to hold him there for no good reason.
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Wanting something should not blind you to reality. Like every parent thinks their child is cute, good-looking and smart - until reality hits them really hard with report cards, rejections etc.
I loved Ole to bits as a player and was delighted with his early run; nothing would have pleased me more than his truly being the best manager in the world. I rooted so hard for him that I was willing to overlook the initial queasiness as results began to tank. You didn't even need "excuses" - they were true too; the players were clearly unfit and couldn't play high-intensity football for too long, they were getting tired, we had very poor squad strength etc. etc. All true, but all overlooked the fact that we showed very poor tactical flexibility, were showing a remarkable lack of thinking and game-by-game progress in style or intelligence and that we were not showing any signs of growing coherence and clear patterns of incisive play in the final third.
This season, it's so obvious where the issues are - but Ole's response has been to persevere with the same players and the same formation. He's kept making late substitutions to little or no effect and most crucially, our players seem to lack the nearly-arrogant self-confidence that defines winners. A group of players that believes they will win and combines that with a deep desire to win and a refusal to countenance defeat as an option will emerge victorious more often than not and can often overturn small deficits in quality to a superior yet less confident / less obsessed-to-win unit. Fergie's teams exemplified this - from the Arsenal (2-0) win playing 7 defenders to the Wolfsburg (3-0) win playing with no CBs and umpteen other times with players out of position or just plain cack (Cleverley, Gibson, Anderson, Bebe, Obertan all featured in wins and won PL medals; some even CL!).
Yes, Leicester have arguably got a better starting 11 with our injuries; yes, we can blame Ed for the summer; yes, we can blame Jose and LvG for the dross and deadwood...but really, is this team worse than Sheffield? Forget who we beat or who we've lost to. Over a period of nearly a third of the league season, we're trailing Sheffield, Bournemouth, Palace and Brighton.
There are also some decisions that belie belief. Mason for example, has done well in most of the games he's started - but is yet to be given the chance in PL, while being hailed all along as "the best finisher at the club". So, a team and manager struggling for goals leaves their "best finisher" on the bench for months, in the middle of an injury crisis while playing one, several or all of Lingard, Mata and Andreas in attacking roles, all the while wondering why we can't seem to score. Go figure. Similarly, Williams has proven adequate and even good in the games he's played - but Young remains first-choice (in Shaw's absence) in the PL. While Axel is injured as of now, it was also excruciating at the start of the season to see Lindelof start ahead of him. Surely if we can see the gaffes that he makes every game, Ole can too? Perhaps Lindelof is better on the ball - but what evidence has there been of even that in the season thus far?
PS: I also wonder what this says about the coaching staff besides Ole. We have Carrick and McKenna - who have now seen a horror season under Jose-Ole and now a similar (or worse) second season. McKenna excelled with the U18s, but is this a step way too soon or too high for them?
I loved Ole to bits as a player and was delighted with his early run; nothing would have pleased me more than his truly being the best manager in the world. I rooted so hard for him that I was willing to overlook the initial queasiness as results began to tank. You didn't even need "excuses" - they were true too; the players were clearly unfit and couldn't play high-intensity football for too long, they were getting tired, we had very poor squad strength etc. etc. All true, but all overlooked the fact that we showed very poor tactical flexibility, were showing a remarkable lack of thinking and game-by-game progress in style or intelligence and that we were not showing any signs of growing coherence and clear patterns of incisive play in the final third.
This season, it's so obvious where the issues are - but Ole's response has been to persevere with the same players and the same formation. He's kept making late substitutions to little or no effect and most crucially, our players seem to lack the nearly-arrogant self-confidence that defines winners. A group of players that believes they will win and combines that with a deep desire to win and a refusal to countenance defeat as an option will emerge victorious more often than not and can often overturn small deficits in quality to a superior yet less confident / less obsessed-to-win unit. Fergie's teams exemplified this - from the Arsenal (2-0) win playing 7 defenders to the Wolfsburg (3-0) win playing with no CBs and umpteen other times with players out of position or just plain cack (Cleverley, Gibson, Anderson, Bebe, Obertan all featured in wins and won PL medals; some even CL!).
Yes, Leicester have arguably got a better starting 11 with our injuries; yes, we can blame Ed for the summer; yes, we can blame Jose and LvG for the dross and deadwood...but really, is this team worse than Sheffield? Forget who we beat or who we've lost to. Over a period of nearly a third of the league season, we're trailing Sheffield, Bournemouth, Palace and Brighton.
There are also some decisions that belie belief. Mason for example, has done well in most of the games he's started - but is yet to be given the chance in PL, while being hailed all along as "the best finisher at the club". So, a team and manager struggling for goals leaves their "best finisher" on the bench for months, in the middle of an injury crisis while playing one, several or all of Lingard, Mata and Andreas in attacking roles, all the while wondering why we can't seem to score. Go figure. Similarly, Williams has proven adequate and even good in the games he's played - but Young remains first-choice (in Shaw's absence) in the PL. While Axel is injured as of now, it was also excruciating at the start of the season to see Lindelof start ahead of him. Surely if we can see the gaffes that he makes every game, Ole can too? Perhaps Lindelof is better on the ball - but what evidence has there been of even that in the season thus far?
PS: I also wonder what this says about the coaching staff besides Ole. We have Carrick and McKenna - who have now seen a horror season under Jose-Ole and now a similar (or worse) second season. McKenna excelled with the U18s, but is this a step way too soon or too high for them?
Yes, what I mentioned re Lukaku is on Woodward. However the midfield problem is on Ole as I explained.
I'm not defending Woodward in general but I don't think Ole has been blameless for how the window went on either.
Tactical flexibility entirely depends on having players with different skill sets who can come inn and offer something else and then you restructure according to that. Joses go-to move for example was throwing Fellaini up front and then hoofing it up in hopes that someone could snatch the falling fruit that came down. It was something different, but i think its worth noting that everyone hated that shite. Spurs do it at times with Llorente and AFAIK Spurs fans hate that as well.
And we have shown some flexibility. Switching to 343 vs Liverpool worked wonders and stopped a side that has being running riot from barely creating a chance all game. The reason we could do this though, is that we are actually well stocked in defense and both Young and AWB can play wingbacks and do fairly well. Midfield and attack though, we dont have that luxury. Our bench now is basically Lingaard, Mata and a bunch of kids from the academy. Who there is going to come in and make an impact or offer something different?
Playing some players out of position works some times when your team is a well oiled machine and those players have loads of individual quality, and we lack both right now. That being said though, Ole clearly deserves criticism for reverting back to 4231 vs B'mouth since its been shite from day 1 and unless they have seen something completely different in training i cant fathom why we stick with that formation. Scott and Fred are alright at best as a CM pairing, but we dont have a single player in our squad that can play #10 and look decent so it completely ruins all of our chances to play down the middle and at the same time gives us an unbalanced midfield
When Pogba gets back i would like to see 343 again. Maybe we can stick Pogba in that #10 role in a 4231, but i sincerely doubt that would be much better
------------------DDG---------------
----Lindelof--Maguire--Tunazebe--
AWB-----Pogba---Scott---Williams
---James----Martial----Rashford---
His comments about Greenwood is just the kind of "empty" praise managers throw around about young kids to boost their confidence. It might even be true, and that Greenwood in fact is the best finisher hes seen, but even he should not really be ahead of either Rashford or Martial in the pecking order for CF. I do hope Williams gets more time though, because despite him being just a kid too, he cant be much worse than Young
100% agree Ole was right in signing a RB but at CB I don't think we needed to go out and spend 80m on Maquire. In the 2016/17 season we were the second team with less goals conceded, only behind Spurs. In the 2017/18 season we once again were the second team with less goals conceded, only behind City. The reason we conceded so much last season was Mou being a prick and setting us up to fail.
With all that money spent our CB pairing still doesn't look much better. Lindelof was showing signs of improvement playing as LCB before Maquire came in but as soon as Maquire was signed lindelof was moved to RCB and he's looked a bag of nerves ever since.
Getting rid of Smalling was another big mistake from the club/Ole. He was comfortably our best CB ahead of lindelof, Jones, Bailly and Rojo. Even with positions being filled obvious mistakes are still occurring.
You're missing the point mate. Ole has nailed most of his "big" matches thus far. It's the small ones that we have uniformly fluffed our lines in - and that's the thing. We haven't needed to "adjust" our tactics for the big games. It's been constant. Right from the first game against Spurs that we won with the Rashford goal. Keep it tight and hit them hard on the counter. So, no adjustments needed as the gameplan has largely been successful in all but a handful of games - and those were ones in which the gulf in quality was ridiculous (Barca, City).
But now look at the ones against teams playing a low block. We haven't adjusted. We stick to a 4-2-3-1 with the cack #10s we have. No invention and no creativity. We throw on Mason with 80' gone knowing that he's not the impact sub kind of player. We then wonder why we fail. This is where you have to wonder why nothing changes. No early subs, no formation shifts etc.
On Mason, who said anything about him starting ahead of Rashford or Martial? We have 4 forwards in a 4-2-3-1... We have 3 forwards we can even think of as being good enough - Martial, Rashford and James. Can we really not think of playing Mason at all? Is it better to persist with proven failures like Andreas, Mata and Lingard (varying degrees of cack) than taking a punt on a player who could provide something different? It's not like he's been horrid in EL or Carabao. We just don't give him a start in the PL.
it's funny how Mourinho and LvG get absolutely slated for their transfer dealings on here yet those same people completely absolve Ole from blame for weakening the squad and lay it all on Woodward instead.
This is all on hope rather than on facts. Would you also give him that much faith if he was not a playing legend? Up to now he has shown nothing that makes me believe me that he is capable of challenging for any trophies or to get us going.
I do not accept this blame on Woodward on the thinning of the squad. From the time he came he made it perfectly clear that he does not want Fellaini or Lukaku. That is fair enough but to get rid of them and not to get any replacement is criminal. This is not on Woodward. If you sell your players who have been in the starting eleven then you better line up replacements for them before the transfer closes. Ole has repeatedly said that he only wants certain players and not anyone. Sure he is right in that too but by not getting players who are better than what he had he is entirely responsible for this fiasco.
As other OPs have said, this is not the Manchester United of SAF. This is a mid table club being managed by an incompetent manager who has not done anything of significance as a football manager. He is like Moyes going after Bale, Ronaldo and Fabregas. They never were going to come to be coached by Moyes. Even though at that time that team was the Champions of England. What hope does Ole really have to get those kind of world class players, to be coached by him and United out of the CL and more close to the relegation zone? Face up to the facts my fellow Manchester United fans.
I do not accept this blame on Woodward on the thinning of the squad. From the time he came he made it perfectly clear that he does not want Fellaini or Lukaku. That is fair enough but to get rid of them and not to get any replacement is criminal. This is not on Woodward. If you sell your players who have been in the starting eleven then you better line up replacements for them before the transfer closes. Ole has repeatedly said that he only wants certain players and not anyone. Sure he is right in that too but by not getting players who are better than what he had he is entirely responsible for this fiasco.
As other OPs have said, this is not the Manchester United of SAF. This is a mid table club being managed by an incompetent manager who has not done anything of significance as a football manager. He is like Moyes going after Bale, Ronaldo and Fabregas. They never were going to come to be coached by Moyes. Even though at that time that team was the Champions of England. What hope does Ole really have to get those kind of world class players, to be coached by him and United out of the CL and more close to the relegation zone? Face up to the facts my fellow Manchester United fans.
Lindelof looked good by comparison to his partners. He's been weak in the air for ages and always makes that one massive error per game. We desperately needed a CB and did well to buy (debatable if Maguire is the best, but he was the best option available).
On Smalling, the issue was clear; he wasn't going to be first or second choice. Axel was ahead in the pecking order. Now, we needed (desperately) to offload in order to manage the squad. Who else was there that we could ostensibly have offloaded? Who'd go for Rojo, Jones or Bailly?
It is completely pointless to continue with Solskjaer; there are absolutely no positives to his tenure as a permanent manager. I would prefer we lost to Partizan and Brighton if it meant the end of Solskjaer as manager.
People will say I am not a fan, but grinding out results from terrible performances is only delaying the inevitable. It is just dragging out this awful and pointless period, which could potentially be made to be, at least, more exciting by a temporary manager.
A new temporary manager will bring some hope of a manager bounce and, in all likelihood, he will be superior to Solskjaer on top of that. Let's face it, we were really scraping the bottom of the barrel when choosing Solskjaer; he is as bad as you can get.
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In his last 28 competitive games, he has managed to win less than a quarter. The performances are dire with zero entertainment value and, on top of that, the results are also diabolical. What is there to be excited about when these two things are absent?
On average, in those 28 games, we have scored less than 1 goal per match. We have also conceded around 1.4 goals per match. How can people see promise in a manager who has the team conceding more than they score? We are fatally flawed in the area that is most important to the game: scoring goals.
The supposed positive of his transfer window was riddled with stupid decisions, also. Why would you prioritise a defender who can pass when you only have one midfielder who can pass? Maguire being able to pass has had zero effect on the team because we have players like McTominay in midfield who have zero ability in terms of passing. On top of that, we failed to sign any replacements for outgoing players, which is a diabolical decision. Solskjaer must have known he wouldn't be getting any replacement after selling Lukaku, which was done right at the end of the window.
The signings are still questionable as to whether they are good. It is far too early to judge whether these players will be a success:
- I think Bissaka will be a good signing, but he has massive issues with his attacking play that could be troublesome in the future if he doesn't improve. Aside from that, I feel that he has had by far the most impact on the team in terms of defence.
- Maguire is no better than Smalling defensively. I actually think he has had very little impact on the squad so far. For a player who cost £80m (the most expensive defender ever), he really hasn't lived up to that price tag as of yet. I think he has been an average signing so far.
- Daniel James looks a decent player, but there are still massive question marks about him. Is he really good enough for the first team? Will he be able to improve or is this his level? It is too early to say he has been a good signing. He might or he might not be, but he was just a cheap punt.
People will say I am not a fan, but grinding out results from terrible performances is only delaying the inevitable. It is just dragging out this awful and pointless period, which could potentially be made to be, at least, more exciting by a temporary manager.
A new temporary manager will bring some hope of a manager bounce and, in all likelihood, he will be superior to Solskjaer on top of that. Let's face it, we were really scraping the bottom of the barrel when choosing Solskjaer; he is as bad as you can get.
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In his last 28 competitive games, he has managed to win less than a quarter. The performances are dire with zero entertainment value and, on top of that, the results are also diabolical. What is there to be excited about when these two things are absent?
On average, in those 28 games, we have scored less than 1 goal per match. We have also conceded around 1.4 goals per match. How can people see promise in a manager who has the team conceding more than they score? We are fatally flawed in the area that is most important to the game: scoring goals.
The supposed positive of his transfer window was riddled with stupid decisions, also. Why would you prioritise a defender who can pass when you only have one midfielder who can pass? Maguire being able to pass has had zero effect on the team because we have players like McTominay in midfield who have zero ability in terms of passing. On top of that, we failed to sign any replacements for outgoing players, which is a diabolical decision. Solskjaer must have known he wouldn't be getting any replacement after selling Lukaku, which was done right at the end of the window.
The signings are still questionable as to whether they are good. It is far too early to judge whether these players will be a success:
- I think Bissaka will be a good signing, but he has massive issues with his attacking play that could be troublesome in the future if he doesn't improve. Aside from that, I feel that he has had by far the most impact on the team in terms of defence.
- Maguire is no better than Smalling defensively. I actually think he has had very little impact on the squad so far. For a player who cost £80m (the most expensive defender ever), he really hasn't lived up to that price tag as of yet. I think he has been an average signing so far.
- Daniel James looks a decent player, but there are still massive question marks about him. Is he really good enough for the first team? Will he be able to improve or is this his level? It is too early to say he has been a good signing. He might or he might not be, but he was just a cheap punt.
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