Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Bilbo]

You've just answered your own question.

You asked who I'd take over Ole if he was sacked, I gave you an answer. Howe is clearly a much better manager than Ole, I don't think it's possible to dispute that, so at the very least, we'd be getting an upgrade, and at most, we could be getting a potentially top manager. Why not go for it?

You said yourself that Mourinho was probably the least risky appointment we could've made at the time and it still didn't work out, same with LvG. Moyes wasn't supposed to be a risk either given his consistency with Everton. The only one you'd argue was a real risk by the club was Ole because he has absolutely zero credentials. So even our "non-risks" have failed, what's the point in not taking risks to try get back up to the top?

Fast forward 10 games when Howe isn't working miracles with this squad, and the forum will read as follows:

Not a big enough name - madness to appoint him
No big club pedigree - we are United - we should hire the best etc etc
Hadn't ever proved that he could manage a club of this size

Its all too predictable.

 

[AneRu]

Should have been sacked alone for his transfer business. This Man Utd squad is weaker than May 2019.

He has relative little pressure, and yet keeps failing. While Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, all had to challenge for the title and play good football.

He is no different from LFC, Roy Hodgson. A completely unproven manager at top level, keeps expectations low and has zero vision.

I think he is to us what Dalgish was to Liverpool on his second coming - loves the club and has a good idea of what needs to be done but totally out of his depth.

 

[Bilbo]

I wasn't a member of this forum when Moyes was in charge, however,

- I defended LvG because I said at the time that the manager wasn't the problem, our structure was the problem and a new manager would not solve this
- I defended Jose because I said at the time that the manager wasn't the problem, our structure was the problem and a new manager would not solve this

I am now defending Ole because I believe our structure is/was the problem, HOWEVER, as I have repeatedly said elsewhere, this was our first 'good' summer in years and I believe Ole (and the Board) now have a clear vision. If we sack Ole, we're back to square one. Who cares if Ole is the man to win trophies long-term? He is here to oversee the clearout and that's what he is doing

It baffles me that posters actually think Ole and Ed thought letting Lukaku go would HELP the team - they're not bloody 6 years old or intellectually sub-normal - I am sure they realised that selling your most productive CF on transfer deadline day is not going to BENEFIT the team. Still needed to be done though! We should be complimenting Ole for having the balls to do what's necessary rather than watch his own back (which lets face it is what Jose did!)

Agree - good post (though I confess to wanting Jose out - but mainly because he had lost the plot and was going against the club)

 

[owlo]

Blanc is pretty far from Mourinho, he favors attacking possession based football but in general no aggressive high press, if you followed Favre they are pretty close in terms of style. The issue with him is the fact that he rejected jobs to the point where clubs have stopped calling, that's a worry, he is supposed to be a very good golfer and seemingly enjoys his time out.

Allegri is conservative and I would be fed up at some point.

I thought the rumour was that Blanc had discipline issues with PSG, and was fed up to a point that he basically doesn't want to be bothered with all that or indeed management again unless he has carte blanche to remove any troublemakers.

 

[Ban]

Fast forward 10 games when Howe isn't working miracles with this squad, and the forum will read as follows:

Not a big enough name - madness to appoint him
No big club pedigree - we are United - we should hire the best etc etc
Hadn't ever proved that he could manage a club of this size

Its all too predictable.

Basically this.

 

[charlenefan]

You're just making excuse after excuse to maintain the status quo.

You obviously agree that it's not working, but your argument seems to be 'I'm scared to change course in case we sink faster. We are currently sinking slowly and another ship may see and save us so lets just hold on.'

My argument is we've sacked 3 managers in 7 years, if Ole were to go as well that would be 4 in 7 years. My argument is when do you stop? When do you stop chasing short term 'success' and stabilisation and try to build something long term?

Ole isn't the man who's going to deliver league titles but I dont see anyone suggesting anyone else who would either

 

[dove]

My argument is we've sacked 3 managers in 7 years, if Ole were to go as well that would be 4 in 7 years. My argument is when do you stop?

When you find the right manager, just like any other club does.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Fast forward 10 games when Howe isn't working miracles with this squad, and the forum will read as follows:

Not a big enough name - madness to appoint him
No big club pedigree - we are United - we should hire the best etc etc
Hadn't ever proved that he could manage a club of this size

Its all too predictable.

Who said anything about miracles? At the start of the season pretty much everyone agreed that this squad probably wasn't quite top 4 quality and expected us to finish between 4th and 6th. If miracles is getting this squad to play to that standard instead of playing like a relegation candidate, which we are currently doing, then god fecking help us.

Please explain to me how this same squad were the best side in the league for Ole's first two months in charge and are now one of the worst? Was the former down to the manager and the latter is down to the players? Did Ole work "miracles" when he first came in with these players to do that?

 

[VP89]

My argument is we've sacked 3 managers in 7 years, if Ole were to go as well that would be 4 in 7 years. My argument is when do you stop? When do you stop chasing short term 'success' and stabilisation and try to build something long term?

Ole isn't the man who's going to deliver league titles but I dont see anyone suggesting anyone else who would either

It's not a matter of chasing short term success. It's a matter of finding the right manager for a rebuild. If the board thought they made an error with Ole, they'd be wise to rectify it prior to spending too much. I feel they need to give him more time than they have though.

 

[redmanc]

Sacking him doesnt really achieve anything, maybe we get a new manager bounce maybe not, but the main factor still is in play which is the squad as a whole is packed full of shite that shouldnt be at the club, changing manager won't fix that. If anything i reckon Ole and Ed both agreed this season was going to be bad once it was clear they were trying to move out so many players with limited/no time to replace. I expect more to leave in the summer and a few decent transfers in and maybe then we can start to consider whether or not he should leave.

 

[future2future]

Who would be available? Doesn't make sense to appoint some kick n rush manager and there aren't any suitable candidates on the market right now. Poch has to be bought and I'm not sure if he will do much better, good manager, but not on the Klopp/Guardiola level in my mind. We need a manager who can build a squad, not one who works with proven stars, cause we haven't got any.

 

[Leftback99]

And SAF wouldn't have spent 120m on the defense.

Because he'd have bought Maguire two seasons ago for £15m.

 

[JPRouve]

I thought the rumour was that Blanc had discipline issues with PSG, and was fed up to a point that he basically doesn't want to be bothered with all that or indeed management again unless he has carte blanche to remove any troublemakers.

I don't know where that rumor comes from but no. He wanted to take a sabbatical to enjoy his family and rest a little bit, at the end of last year he said that he regrets to have rejected clubs. As for the last part, Blanc doesn't enjoy the management part, he is a head coach and doesn't want carte blanche.

 

[The Boy]

Ole is not the problem at Utd, more experienced managers have failed there too. The slow decay is very much the fault of the ownership.

 

[EireRed_GS]

You have to be joking Apparently having a good competent manager wouldn’t improve our relegation form. Only our fans can think like that, unbelievable.

Yeah ive taken back the SAF comment, but yeah if Pep,Klopp or Poch had MF like ours, a choice of lingard, periera or mata as no.10, and rashford up front being unable to hit a barn door, all whilst not having their outgoing players replaced and being told to make do with what they have. yeah i think they wouldnt do so good either.

Very good managers, great tactics, but im thinking sometimes some of our players just are not good enough to implement tactics consistently too. As soon as the going gets tough they crumble. Just seem to abandon what they've been told.

Our squad is at the worse state its been in a long long time , and rotating managers again, just says no manager is going to get time here at all.. and thats what a manger needs with this mess. & Like i mentioned before, Ole seems to be making the right moves in fixing things (with the freedom to change what he can for now)

But if down the line the football is getting gradually worse and worse, yes changing coaches would be the only feasable option, but im nowhere near thinking like that yet

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The bad thing is that we're only two months into the season and we're already talking about the coming transfer windows and the limitations of our squad and we're placing our hopes and prayers on a player to come back from injury and some academy players to save us. This is a common theme even among the most ardent Ole supporters. We have played what, 10 games?, and very few can see any improvement on the horizon from this manager and this squad. In this sense, January looks very far away and take notice: The Jan. market is for minor fixes not for solving major problems. Even if we approach teams for the likes if Longstaff and Rice, their respective clubs can tell us to feck off and come back in the summer. This is a problem because Ole looks devoid of ideas and the players seem to be confused and on very low confidence. We can have catastrophic results, if we keep performing like this.

On the other hand, even if Ole gets the sack, the fundamental problems at United won't go away. Woodward will look for the next manager who will sell him a rebuilding plan which Ed himself will then sell to the Glazers and we will start all over again. With top-four being the only target while we keep paying the highest wages in the league. Let this sink in for a moment. We are paying such high wages for a squad that very few people believe can attain CL qualification.

I'm still on the fence about Ole. If he's determined to build a whole new team and be ruthless in his judgement of our players, all of them, then i would give him time. If he wanted to check how these players can handle the pressure of carrying the team on their shoulders, let him continue. Woodward isn't capable of doing it. But if it's all smokescreen and the plan is to simply ride the sentimentality train with Rashy, Tony, JLingz leading the line and with academy players being thrown in the deep-end plus the Brexit FC assembly, then he should go now and remain the true legend he is for us.

 

[The Boy]

Anybody. I'd take Allardyce. What he did in the transfer window is an utter disgrace and can never be forgiven.

This should be in the "are we in danger of relegation" thread! Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Wolff]

Djizuz fecking Christ! I’m sure I have a larger group of intelligent life in my ball sack than this place! You are as much use as fans as a handbrake on a cano.

 

[Smores]

My argument is we've sacked 3 managers in 7 years, if Ole were to go as well that would be 4 in 7 years. My argument is when do you stop? When do you stop chasing short term 'success' and stabilisation and try to build something long term?

Ole isn't the man who's going to deliver league titles but I dont see anyone suggesting anyone else who would either

Well you don't just stop because your fed up of change. You carry on trying to identify someone who looks capable of rebuilding.

No other club has this issue with sacking managers. Our longevity under Fergie created a false pride around consistency that our fans still cling on to but there's no pride to be taken backing a manager out of his depth. If he wants to stay he has to show signs to convince he's capable very quickly.

 

[dove]

2 very good managers, great tactics, but im thinking sometimes some of our players just are not good enough to implement tactics consistently too. As soon as the going gets tough they crumble. Just seem to abandon what they've been told.

That is exactly the reason I’m fully Ole out. I fully understand when the team is inconsistent, a brilliant match followed by a loss to some mid table team. You could argue that given enough time, we would be more consistent and I wouldn’t mind giving time. With Ole it’s different, we are consistently shite in pretty much every single match. I see absolutely no progress in our performances to say that he should be given more time. Not a single player improved since he took over as well, some of them got even worse.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Nah, not his fault the bed we've made for ourselves here. He's doing (probably) the best he can under such circumstances i.e. a depleted squad with no depth.

I'm hoping he steers us to the end-ish part of the season when we hire a proper permanent manager (e.g. Amadeus's son).

 

[JPRouve]

If we had a better/different manager than Ole, we could currently have a decent Alexis Sanchez, an improved Lukaku and Herrera. These players actively tried to leave the club, none of them have been pushed away. I'm not a fan of Lukaku and don't miss him but Klopp found a way to use underperfoming players like Firminho, Henderson and Sturridge, so it's not serious to claim that he wouldn't have done a better job if he was the one taking over in December 2018, because Ole is judged on the period from December 2018 to October 2019.

 

[AneRu]

Moyes never really showed that he could do much other than keep a team consistently hovering in upper mid table for a long period of time. Howe has taken a league two team and made them one of the PL's mainstays in five years. If you can't see the difference between that and Moyes then I don't know what to say.

He is definitely still a risk, no doubt, but he would be a risk worth taking. He's young, British, plays great football and has shown he's capable of continuously improving his side year on year. Can he make the step up to a bigger club or is this his limit? Well, I don't know, there's only one way to find out.

Howe has done well at Bournemouth but I think we need someone a bit more proven because the task at hand is immense. United need to rebuild but also be competitive during that period. An appointment like Howe could be a make or break appointment for the club as in if it goes wrong again the road back to the top will be almost impossible to embark on. Imo we need to do what Woodward had promised before he drove us head on into this disaster - bring in a DOF and allow him to make a root and branch assessment of the club as whole, appoint a caretaker and carefully select the next manager after considering things like the style of play, his ability to implement that style of play, ability to develop and improve player and that manager's temperament when things don't go his way (won't he do a Mourinho on us if Woodward pulls another of his antics and will he stick to his guns if we hit rough patch?).

 

[Kemizee]

This.

Bonus points for not using "wouldn't of" like most feckwits these days.

Hahhaahha. Redcafe! . Funny you.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Howe has done well at Bournemouth but I think we need someone a bit more proven because the task at hand is immense. United need to rebuild but also be competitive during that period. An appointment like Howe could be a make or break appointment for the club as in if it goes wrong again the road back to the top will be almost impossible to embark on. Imo we need to do what Woodward had promised before he drove us head on into this disaster - bring in a DOF and allow him to make a root and branch assessment of the club as whole, appoint a caretaker and carefully select the next manager after considering things like the style of play, his ability to implement that style of play, ability to develop and improve player and that manager's temperament when things don't go his way (won't he do a Mourinho on us if Woodward pulls another of his antics and will he stick to his guns if we hit rough patch?).

I don't disagree with any of that, though if we did get a DoF and a good structure in place before we signed someone like Howe we are immediately making it less of a risk and making things easier for them

 

[Strelok]

I don't think Ole is or would be the guy who can lead us back to glory - title challenger but he's the right guy for the moment, period.

He's not a top manager yet so the pressure or expectation on him is much lower compared to what the considered top managers would have if any of them comes here.

I see that as an advantage, a top manager with much more pressure and expectation on him will probably resort to quick fix or panic buy to save his ass. Which gonna be disaster for us in the long term - fact proven under Mou.

 

[Havak]

I said it before the season started and I'll stick to it. There were two options:

1) Sack Ole at the end of last season.
2) Keep Ole and do not sack him for at least one full season.

The former didn't happen, so the latter has to. There is no other discussion IMO, unless we end up battling relegation and there's no sign of improvement, but I don't think it'll go to that extreme.

I hate the word 'process' as much as everyone throwing around words like 'identity' and 'philosophy', but in this case they're true. My opinion on Ole is that he is the guy to get a squad together that wants to be here. He will improve our overall fitness levels. He will get us into a rhythm and routine. He will get the better of our younger players more involved. However, he won't win us trophies and take us to the next level. I don't see that as his job. I want him to create a platform for the next top manager, the next serial winner we hire. I just think that doing it right now and sacking Ole would be more of the same - we might get a little boost for a few months but the same problems will continue to arise until we gain some stability. We can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different results, it's insanity.

Ole to get at least the season and push forward his plans on which players need to get the boot next year, whether he continues his tenure beyond then or not. If we finish in the top six and look like we're playing better, then I think he should be given the second year as well. Anything lower than that, then there is serious discussion to have obviously.

 

[RAVred]

Its a lose lose situation at this point



He should've never been appointed. If we can get someone like Tuchel or Allegri, he can walk tomorrow

 

[DaniDan]

Keep. Sacking him won't change a thing. This is the worst United team we had over the last 30 years. No manager would get results with the lot.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

You have to be joking Apparently having a good competent manager wouldn’t improve our relegation form. Only our fans can think like that, unbelievable.

 

[red4ever 79]

Based on what? What possible credentials does Eddie Howe have? To me someone like Eddie Howe is another short term punt

Alegri and available right now

 

[ex and]

Ole is rapidly losing his iconic value, great footballer - unproven manager.
Criminally naive not to strengthen our fire power and creative midfield, even it was probably restricted by Woodward and Glazers.
We have not improved football wise since he was appointed permanent manager.
I saw my first match at OT in 1961. Pereira is one of the worst midfielders We’ve had so why pick him.

Unfortunately, until we get rid of his superiors it will not improve.

 

[Kemizee]

Any United fan that would have the club sack Ole should seriously feck off and support another club.

You can't be serious? Wanting a tactically deficient, underperforming manager to be sacked means one does not support the club? I have heard it all.

 

[charlenefan]

When you find the right manager, just like any other club does.

That's not true though is it. Arsenal kept Wenger around for what a further 14 years after their last league title? Poch has been at Spurs for 5 years and has no trophies to show for it. Mourinho wasn't even tolerated for 3 years here despite delivering trophies and UCL qualification.

You have 3 types of clubs in modern football, those who keep faith with their managers for a long period of time even if it doesn't result in any great success, those who constantly change managers and see no further progress and less than a handful that maintain real success despite the ever changing position in the dug out

 

[POF]

Until the club put some semblence of a structure in place they just cannot sack him. Get rid of Ole and then what? Appoint a manager who wants a centre back with pace, right back who can attack and a left footed left winger.

They might get £70m back from the £140m spent in the summer.

 

[GBBQ]

Ole is not the problem at Utd, more experienced managers have failed there too. The slow decay is very much the fault of the ownership.

The problem is the ownership's failings don't absolve Ole of his shortcomings. He might not be the main, or the biggest problem but have we honestly seen enough in his approach to management to suggest he is the right person to compete with Liverpool and City.

Its not ideal to be sacking a 4th manager in 7 years but I'm not convinced its in our best interest to persevere with a manager on such a bad run of results. Being unable to beat 2 relegated teams in Huddersfield and Cardiff when we still had a glimmer of hope for the top 4 at the end of last season. Losing to Crystal Palace (who had been without a win or a goal in the 2 games prior), drawing with Wolves (who are on a pretty poor run of form themselves) and being unable to find a winner against Southampton (who were down to 10 men for the final 20 minutes of the game) this season. Limping past the mighty Astana and only beating Rochdale on penalties in 2 cup competitions that other managers would use as potential job savers.

There is a lack of investment in the squad for sure but those fixtures should have been winnable even with the squad we have.

 

[VP89]

That's not true though is it. Arsenal kept Wenger around for what a further 14 years after their last league title? Poch has been at Spurs for 5 years and has no trophies to show for it. Mourinho wasn't even tolerated for 3 years here despite delivering trophies and UCL qualification.

You have 3 types of clubs in modern football, those who keep faith with their managers for a long period of time even if it doesn't result in any great success, those who constantly change managers and see no further progress and less than a handful that maintain real success despite the ever changing position in the dug out

Poch is an odd example. He's brought Spurs great success. Success for a club like Spurs wouldn't solely be recorded by silverware. He made them a consistent Champions League side, brought them to major finals and created a philosophy and structure can be maintained for the next manager. That's very successful.

Mourinho won a couple cups with us in 3 years, but failed to do what Poch has achieved.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

People are not being able to seperate Ole the player from Ole the manager.
If that was Moyes the poll would’ve looked very different, we’re frighteningly poor.

 

[Kemizee]

I don't don't know which is worse WUM or Troll, anyho

Okay, we sack Ole, the next Manager doesn't hit the ground running, what do we do, sack him at the end of the season if we miss out on T4, or don't qualify for the Champions League by winning the Europa League?

Seriously where does it end?

We've got a guy who knows the club inside and out, he's got most of the players onside(which is a serious positive), so why not see where we are at the end of the season then reevaluate then?

This meaningless nonsense again. Did Pep know City inside and out to become a success, what about Klopp at Liverpool or the other numerous managers who can do the basics and get their players punching above their weight? You are either a good manager or not. Dalglish knew Liverpool inside and out and still failed. Means absolutely feck all!

 

[Mainoldo]

I can’t believe the poll. We deserve mid table as a collective fan group.