Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[AC1689]

Sorry can someone please tell me the last time they looked at the Premier League table and we were 15th?!

Some people say we’re as bad today as we have been for the last 6 years post SAF, but we have NEVER languished in 15th place even in the worst days of LVG and Mourinho.

How can anyone look at the PL table and not feel utter biliousness?!

 

[dove]

Surely the last thing that comes together during a long-term plan is what happens on the first-team pitch.

That's why it's called a "long-term" plan.

Yep, this is exactly the reason Ole still has supporters. You just simply ignore what happens on the pitch and have a blind faith it will magically start to work in year 5 or so. Ole shouldn't have made a top 100 managers list to take over after Jose was sacked but here we are, fecking 15th with no signs of us winning games.

 

[Roboc7]

Surely the last thing that comes together during a long-term plan is what happens on the first-team pitch.

That's why it's called a "long-term" plan.

Very naiive there, a huge part of the plan should include an identity and way of playing or at least one is suitable. Ole doesn’t have that, could give him ten years and won’t make a difference.

 

[Eric7C]

Yep, this is exactly the reason Ole still has supporters. You just simply ignore what happens on the pitch and have a blind faith it will magically start to work in year 5 or so. Ole shouldn't have made a top 100 managers list to take over after Jose was sacked but here we are, fecking 15th with no signs of us winning games.

It's really remarkable when you put it that way.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Every "long term plan" has it's review points and milestone checks. If you have three year plan, you don't just review at the end of that three years and do nothing in between. That's just ridiculous.

 

[::sonny::]

He doesn't blame the club for the no transfer activity

He doesn't ask players

Happy to play with youngsters

So he will stay forever till the calamity glazer family are here

He is convenient for the club: loved by the fans, doesn't ask nothing= more money for them= happy glazer

 

[SteveJ]

Every "long term plan" has it's review points and milestone checks. If you have three year plan, you don't just review at the end of that three years and do nothing in between.

Viewed cynically, it's a convenient way of excusing poor results along the way.

 

[Litch]

Injuries haven't helped but we all knew a couple of injuries and we would be in trouble. Ole has the choice to buy players and choose not to. I get maybe players that you wanted wasn't available but isnt that the same for every manager? Also I don't know why Utd seem to queue waiting for the transfer window to open, and then start to work out what they want were other teams seem to be able to secure signings, announce them before the window opens.

 

[Eric7C]

Every "long term plan" has it's review points and milestone checks. If you have three year plan, you don't just review at the end of that three years and do nothing in between. That's just ridiculous.

You're a good Chairman.

 

[Litch]

Every "long term plan" has it's review points and milestone checks. If you have three year plan, you don't just review at the end of that three years and do nothing in between. That's just ridiculous.

Long terms plans are great if others aren't planning too. Do you think Liverpool, city et al are just gonna wait for us to catch up?

 

[dove]

Every "long term plan" has it's review points and milestone checks. If you have three year plan, you don't just review at the end of that three years and do nothing in between. That's just ridiculous.

Imagine signing a 3 year contract for a project and your employer doesn't care that 2 years and 364 days in your results are non existent or worse than they were when you started Because you know, you cannot evaluate the project before.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Imagine signing a 3 year contract for a project and your employer doesn't care that 2 years and 364 days in your results are non existent or worse than they were when you started Because you know, you cannot evaluate the project before.

Exactly. If we're going to apply OGS's tenure in real world employment terms, he was doing such a great job on a 6 month fixed term contract, that he got a permanent contract early but now he's failing the probation period that comes with permanent contracts.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Imagine signing a 3 year contract for a project and your employer doesn't care that 2 years and 364 days in your results are non existent or worse than they were when you started Because you know, you cannot evaluate the project before.

Exactly. It's just spin to excuse shite results and performances and a time-buying exercise. 'Please keep renewing your season tickets under this bizarre belief that in 3yrs time, things will be good again'.

 

[Kemizee]

Would you rather sign a shit slightly better player or wait for a proper United quality title winning side type player?

If you just want to be a top 4 club long term make top 4 signings and decisions.

Long term we want success and that takes planning and time. Look at Pep and Klopp. Did they walk in and win right away able to implement their philosophy perfectly? No! Pep was criticised in his first season at City with people saying you can’t win the PL with his brand of football and he already had a great squad just not HIS squad.

It’s not batshit insane to view this season in the context of what has happened before. I fear people are viewing this season in isolation too much.

Oh please!! Not this again. From the first month, you could see the imprint of their unique coaching style. That very much is undeniable. They didn't need a year for that to be recognised.

Pep was criticised for not winning the league in his first season cos he came in as a top, top coach and not for not having a discernible style of play.

Finally get your butt off Ole's arse. We are heading no where with an inept manager like him.

 

[In Rainbows]

Just because Klopp and Pep didn't win in their first season, doesn't mean they didn't have their sides looking like the usual Klopp and Pep sides. People need to stop rewriting history with that nonsense. People aren't just criticizing Ole for results, but because he hasn't been able to get United to play anything other than tumescent football.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Just because Klopp and Pep didn't win in their first season, doesn't mean they didn't have their sides looking like the usual Klopp and Pep sides. People need to stop rewriting history with that nonsense. People aren't just criticizing Ole for results, but because he hasn't been able to get United to play anything other than tumescent football.

With injuries to the squads only creative outlets...

Take the two best players out of Liverpool and they suffer.

I think he’s been unlucky rather than bad and as for clear ideas when fully fit we saw what can happen.

 

[Sandikan]

With injuries to the squads only creative outlets...

Take the two best players out of Liverpool and they suffer.

I think he’s been unlucky rather than bad and as for clear ideas when fully fit we saw what can happen.

He has been unlucky with injuries, but when you basically leave next to nothing under the starting 11, you're always going to come a cropper.

Everyone feared going into a season with 2 main strikers, one of whom has to play as a winger was utter madness.

We didn't think it'd only take about 3 games to show that though.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Every "long term plan" has it's review points and milestone checks. If you have three year plan, you don't just review at the end of that three years and do nothing in between. That's just ridiculous.

What makes you think there aren't any review points? Some just choose to ignore most of them with the hope that things will improve in the future. This can happen when the "project" and the "role" of the supervisor are being treated not for what they are but as some strange fetishes. United could be in the 20th place on the PL table, Woodward might sell Pogba and replace him with Longstaff and Rice, other teams will be miles ahead of us and you will still get many people talking about the "United way", the young and hungry players and the right culture.

It's the same with the manager. First, they fantasize about the new Ferguson who will stay here for the next 20 years and reshape the club in his own image and then the role becomes more important than the actual person in charge. What's the manager's job? Win matches and make his team look better than the sum of its parts, right? Not at United, apparently. Here you can be a constant failure but it's alright as long as you do things a certain way. All you need is time because, eventually, the "role" itself will do the job for you. And so you willfully choose to ignore all the negative review points, you find all plausible excuses and you just wait.

Just go to any other forum and ask this simple question: Come next May, who would you choose to become your manager, Solskjaer or Allegri? See what you'll come up with. Here they'll tell you that "although Allegri may be the better manager, Solskjaer is better suited to get us forward" Because he gets what the club is all about. The other one is better only at winning football matches. So feck him.

 

[b82REZ]

With injuries to the squads only creative outlets...

Take the two best players out of Liverpool and they suffer.

I think he’s been unlucky rather than bad and as for clear ideas when fully fit we saw what can happen.

That's why you need a plan B and C.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like he has a plan A either.

We've had injury crisis' for years now, we've also never been so far from the top 4 during those periods.

The injuries are just a convenient excuse for Ole and his supporters. If our season falls apart because two wildly inconsistent players are injured we a truly fecked.

 

[Ballist1x]

He has been unlucky with injuries, but when you basically leave next to nothing under the starting 11, you're always going to come a cropper.

Everyone feared going into a season with 2 main strikers, one of whom has to play as a winger was utter madness.

We didn't think it'd only take about 3 games to show that though.

At the end of last season we were at to field a good strength squad and still lost so many matches...

 

[hobbers]

People forget the rot started when pretty much everyone was fit, around the Wolves matches. Not to mention the other aspect which is that our fitness issues started 1 month into Ole's reign. Derailing our purple patch when Martial, Lingard and Rashford all picked up muscle injuries at around the same time.

Fast forward to March and the wheels have well and truly come off. Not many defined injuries but the dire performances are excused as a squad showing the hallmarks of burnout and lack of overall fitness. "So just give me a summer to prepare them and we'll be okay"

Fast forward again and a few weeks into the season we have Martial Lingard and Rashford all with seemingly chronic muscle issues (coincidence or a shit archaic approach to fitness?). Shaw literally broken in half and Pogba skiving off to keep from being associated with Ole's shite brand of football.

 

[Tel074]

Trust me you are heading to NO Destination. That's how shit and futile this journey is

Thankfully ive more patience than yourself and most of the others on here . If Ole this time next year hasn't improved us massively then maybe it will be time to find someone else but I'm pretty sure whoever gets the job after him will find a club in a lot better state than when he came to the club

 

[redIndianDevil]

Our fans are batshit insane.

I constantly see people saying of course we won't score we don't have the players to create and score goals. I agree.

But those people neglect the fact that by Oles own admission he chose to not strengthen both midfield and attack.

So therefore our inability to create is entirely on him.

Some are, I've had it with the "support the manager at any cost", "he deserves two more windows", "Sir Alex had four years", "manager needs his own playing 11" brigades. They are all blind and completely idiotic.

 

[hobbers]

Some are, I've had it with the "support the manager at any cost", "he deserves two more windows", "Sir Alex had four years", "manager needs his own playing 11" brigades. They are all blind and completely idiotic.

The worst of the lot - "We tried two experienced and proven managers and (even though they both won us titles) they ultimately didnt work out, so therefore we must only go for absolute nobodies who no other top club would even entertain putting on their coaching staff, let alone hiring as manager."

 

[BenitoSTARR]

That's why you need a plan B and C.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like he has a plan A either.

We've had injury crisis' for years now, we've also never been so far from the top 4 during those periods.

The injuries are just a convenient excuse for Ole and his supporters. If our season falls apart because two wildly inconsistent players are injured we a truly fecked.

You can only have those plans if you can get the players in too. I’d rather not have an unmotivated Lukaku and shit Sanchez.

The thing is we are truly fecked and I think people believe that because I think Ole should stay I’m optimistic but it’s not it’s based on reality of our situation. We are not a top 4 squad for quality but we are on our way in terms of recruitment.

He has been unlucky with injuries, but when you basically leave next to nothing under the starting 11, you're always going to come a cropper.

Everyone feared going into a season with 2 main strikers, one of whom has to play as a winger was utter madness.

We didn't think it'd only take about 3 games to show that though.

What was the alternative to this? Keep Lukaku who wanted out?

Some are, I've had it with the "support the manager at any cost", "he deserves two more windows", "Sir Alex had four years", "manager needs his own playing 11" brigades. They are all blind and completely idiotic.

What I can see which others clearly can’t is that the club is currently shit. We’ve been shit for years and now suddenly people are blaming the latest manager rather than looking at the real problem with is the recruitment of shit.

What I’m fed up of is people blaming a manger time and time again. Mourinho was blamed despite working minor miracles to get us to second and now Ole is being blamed for the sins of the father.

Why can people not accept that actually it is going to take us 3 years like Liverpool etc to actually challenge for something seriously and that to do that requires us to recruit very carefully and we’ve just been unlucky with injuries.

What is blind and idiotic is to say that blame lies with Ole for a situation that is beyond anyone’s control.

You take any club in the PL bar City and remove their two best players for nearly two months and see how they cope. Now bear in mind our squad is way off a top squad because we have a lot of players learning their trade or just plain ol shit shows who we can’t sell as we can’t buy enough in one window.

That’s not Ole’s fault it’s the fault of whoever has been making transfer choices in the 5 years prior as well.

Sir Alex used to plan for 5 year cycles and look how we did he never looked just at one season expect his last where he brought in the leagues best striker and low and behold when you buy world class players you get world class results.

We can’t buy world class anymore they want Real Madrid, Barcelona or Juventus etc and so we can buy best of any PL club bar Spurs, City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal but for inflated fees.

If we keep chopping and changing it’s just going to continue to stifle our success so we have two options.

Sack Ole but get a DOF.
Keep Ole to over see the transition then upgrade manager.

I don’t think Ole will win us the PL but I trust him to find the right players for the club above all else.

 

[b82REZ]

You can only have those plans if you can get the players in too. I’d rather not have an unmotivated Lukaku and shit Sanchez.

The thing is we are truly fecked and I think people believe that because I think Ole should stay I’m optimistic but it’s not it’s based on reality of our situation. We are not a top 4 squad for quality but we are on our way in terms of recruitment.


What was the alternative to this? Keep Lukaku who wanted out?


What I can see which others clearly can’t is that the club is currently shit. We’ve been shit for years and now suddenly people are blaming the latest manager rather than looking at the real problem with is the recruitment of shit.

What I’m fed up of is people blaming a manger time and time again. Mourinho was blamed despite working minor miracles to get us to second and now Ole is being blamed for the sins of the father.

Why can people not accept that actually it is going to take us 3 years like Liverpool etc to actually challenge for something seriously and that to do that requires us to recruit very carefully and we’ve just been unlucky with injuries.

What is blind and idiotic is to say that blame lies with Ole for a situation that is beyond anyone’s control.

You take any club in the PL bar City and remove their two best players for nearly two months and see how they cope. Now bear in mind our squad is way off a top squad because we have a lot of players learning their trade or just plain ol shit shows who we can’t sell as we can’t buy enough in one window.

That’s not Ole’s fault it’s the fault of whoever has been making transfer choices in the 5 years prior as well.

Sir Alex used to plan for 5 year cycles and look how we did he never looked just at one season expect his last where he brought in the leagues best striker and low and behold when you buy world class players you get world class results.

We can’t buy world class anymore they want Real Madrid, Barcelona or Juventus etc and so we can buy best of any PL club bar Spurs, City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal but for inflated fees.

If we keep chopping and changing it’s just going to continue to stifle our success so we have two options.

Sack Ole but get a DOF.
Keep Ole to over see the transition then upgrade manager.

I don’t think Ole will win us the PL but I trust him to find the right players for the club above all else.

Lukaku may not have been happy not being first choice but he would have gotten games and in a Euros year should have performed adequately. We've kept plenty of unhappy players over the years. What's the excuse for not offloading Pogba this summer?

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Lukaku may not have been happy not being first choice but he would have gotten games and in a Euros year should have performed adequately. We've kept plenty of unhappy players over the years. What's the excuse for not offloading Pogba this summer?

Because Pogba is literally one of our two world class players and selling him would remove any quality playmaking from our midfield. Replacing him this summer would have been a monumental task when we are trying to rebuild. Also from the clubs perspective commercially our biggest asset can’t be sold now. Lukaku didn’t have that appeal.

I guess Pogba is good enough to keep even if unhappy and has been professional which is rarely the case for United player's when they want out.

 

[b82REZ]

Because Pogba is literally one of our two world class players and selling him would remove any quality playmaking from our midfield. Replacing him this summer would have been a monumental task when we are trying to rebuild. Also from the clubs perspective commercially our biggest asset can’t be sold now. Lukaku didn’t have that appeal.

I guess Pogba is good enough to keep even if unhappy and has been professional which is rarely the case for United player's when they want out.

I'd counter that with, Lukaku was our only reliable goalscorer and a it's a monumental task trying to replace that. You can't justify selling one player by saying they're unhappy while ignoring the most vocal unhappy player we have. Pogba has regularly publically voiced his desire to leave whereas Lukaku didn't make any public calls to be sold. Also I don't feel Pogba is our best player. He's wildly inconsistent and believes he's better than he actually is.

As a manager Ole should have made Lukaku feel wanted, even if he wasn't in his main plan. The decision to sell him looks sillier each match we struggle to test the opposition keeper.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I'd counter that with, Lukaku was our only reliable goalscorer and a it's a monumental task trying to replace that. You can't justify selling one player by saying they're unhappy while ignoring the most vocal unhappy player we have. Pogba has regularly publically voiced his desire to leave whereas Lukaku didn't make any public calls to be sold. Also I don't feel Pogba is our best player. He's wildly inconsistent and believes he's better than he actually is.

As a manager Ole should have made Lukaku feel wanted, even if he wasn't in his main plan. The decision to sell him looks sillier each match we struggle to test the opposition keeper.

Can I just go on record by saying I didn’t want Lukaku sold btw for the same reasons as you outline (you can check the transfer thread) but my mind changed when Inter came calling. Lukaku didn’t behave professionally.

Who is our most creative player then?

Lukaku was not going to play second fiddle hence his move no manager would’ve stopped that in a Euro season.

 

[432JuanMata]

If we don’t win tomorrow he has to be sacked, we can go 7/8th with a win but doesn’t take away from the fact that the top 4 are running off on us. If we lose I expect him gone by Monday morning

 

[b82REZ]

Can I just go on record by saying I didn’t want Lukaku sold btw for the same reasons as you outline (you can check the transfer thread) but my mind changed when Inter came calling. Lukaku didn’t behave professionally.

Who is our most creative player then?

Lukaku was not going to play second fiddle hence his move no manager would’ve stopped that in a Euro season.

Pogba probably is our most creative player I've never said otherwise, that doesn't make him our best player. He is often overrun by supposedly inferior players and his output in terms of his "creativity" is intermittent at best. If he was as good as many on here or his marketing team would have you believe he would drag us through games a lot more when we are struggling. The reality is he's the first one to go missing when the going gets tough. He was suspended for arguably the biggest game under Ole and we didn't seem to miss him then.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Pogba probably is our most creative player I've never said otherwise, that doesn't make him our best player. He is often overrun by supposedly inferior players and his output in terms of his "creativity" is intermittent at best. If he was as good as many on here or his marketing team would have you believe he would drag us through games a lot more when we are struggling. The reality is he's the first one to go missing when the going gets tough. He was suspended for arguably the biggest game under Ole and we didn't seem to miss him then.

Hes vital to our play as without him we lack creativity and that is exactly what is needed when facing a block of 11 men behind the ball. Take him out and we have no other creative spark.

He gets overran when not supported. He is consistently statistically one of the best creative CM in world football and of course relying on one CM for all of that is going to sometimes fail which is why he needs support!

The reason we do well in these big games is because they actually play to our current squads strengths. We are shit at breaking down a low defensive block. We don’t shift the ball quick enough in the offensive third to create chances through the lines. However if any team tries to come at us we are very good defensively and now we actually have pace upfront (when fit) with James, Rashford and Martial so any decent ball forward and we have half a chance due to sheer athleticism.

Analyse our squad and we are a textbook counter attacking side on paper. But people want results and that doesn’t work against the low block we face. Teams have already sussed out our lack of creative players and no if they target Pogba it’s goodnight Vienna which is why he has been forced deeper to get him space and time on the ball.

 

[b82REZ]

Hes vital to our play as without him we lack creativity and that is exactly what is needed when facing a block of 11 men behind the ball. Take him out and we have no other creative spark.

He gets overran when not supported. He is consistently statistically one of the best creative CM in world football and of course relying on one CM for all of that is going to sometimes fail which is why he needs support!

The reason we do well in these big games is because they actually play to our current squads strengths. We are shit at breaking down a low defensive block. We don’t shift the ball quick enough in the offensive third to create chances through the lines. However if any team tries to come at us we are very good defensively and now we actually have pace upfront (when fit) with James, Rashford and Martial so any decent ball forward and we have half a chance due to sheer athleticism.

Analyse our squad and we are a textbook counter attacking side on paper. But people want results and that doesn’t work against the low block we face. Teams have already sussed out our lack of creative players and no if they target Pogba it’s goodnight Vienna which is why he has been forced deeper to get him space and time on the ball.

All the excuses here are just more evidence that Ole is not tactically good enough for this job. Setting up United to be a counter attacking team when he knows full well that 95% of teams will park the bus is negligence. The fact that we are so utterly reliable on one player is a terrible excuse as well. Last season was probably Pogba's best season in a United shirt as an individual, he amassed a grand total of 9 assists in the league. For comparison Ryan Fraser had 14 assists in the league for Bournemouth so Pogba is not "statistically one the best CM in world football". The best CMs and AMs in the world make it seem like no one can get near them and have all the time in the world on the ball, Pogba regularly gets his pocket pinched as he just idles around in midfield.

Our players should be coached in how to break down teams that sit deep. It's schoolboy stuff like, switching play to drag the opposition around that even newly promoted teams attempt, yet we seem completely devoid of ideas once we meet a stubborn defence. Relying on a notoriously inconsistent player like Pogba to be the catalyst for our creativity causes its own issues, not least giving some supporters the injuries excuse for our current plight.

 

[RussellWilson]

I'd take Blanc as a caretaker before making a permanent appointment in the summer. Preferably Poch.

 

[VJ1762]

We really are paying 7.5 million euros for a Norwegian PE teacher. Sometimes, I wish we were like Real Madrid and be proactive.

 

[Castia]

The results don’t really phase me, I wasn’t expecting too much this season. It’s fair to say we had to step back (gut the squad) to move forward.

But I wasn’t expecting it to be this bad. Flirting with the relegation zone and looking absolutely clueless on the pitch? come off it.

I’d be all for waiting it out but there’s nothing to suggest we can improve this run goes back into last season. Sorry but you can create a style of play and a philosophy no matter who the personnel, the players don’t even look coached, they looked tired 3 games in and now they look dead on their feet.

Meh.

 

[Chicharo]

I have and realised he is really heading nowhere. He is a terrible manager. Appaling to say the least. Blanc would be my interim choice. I used to watch PSG under him and he at least knows what basic tactics mean in football.

I am from Serbia. I went to JNA and cheered for United, I saw them play, I saw Partizan which is a low middle table club of European football, a little bit lower than Zvezda. Sure, we mixed some cards, but the truth is that our strongest 11 (whoever they are) are not better than this. No manager could do better than this. Maybe a bit, but not where we want to be
We gave fecking Moyes more time, and now we should sack Ole. I do not believe you people

 

[mav_9me]

This would be only reason to support him. But for me he hasn't done a good job of playing youngsters. What he has done is only really given Mctominay a lot of gametime, some to Greenwood and Tuanzebe. Feel those 2, along with Gomes should have gotten more. Happier with Williams and Garner getting gametime now. If we lose with these guys it's easier to take rather than same old shite with Young /Rojo/Perreira/Mata.

 

[Foxbatt]

Same old used car sales man talk from Ole. When are we going to realise the truth that he is all talk?

 

[Sky1981]

Thankfully ive more patience than yourself and most of the others on here . If Ole this time next year hasn't improved us massively then maybe it will be time to find someone else but I'm pretty sure whoever gets the job after him will find a club in a lot better state than when he came to the club

Alot better state?

How the hell would a relegated battler team a better state?