Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Bobcat]

No, “RedCafe” didn’t.

It definitely did.

If i may shoot in here. The expression really is "The buck stops here" or "The buck stops with the President" and was said by some american house politician regarding decisions having to be made during WW2. It was aimed at either FDR or Truman

Also, the expression really means passing on blame/responsibility to someone else. So if Ole had blamed Ed/the ref for something, he would be "passing the buck". Of course the manager carries the can, but its not some universal truth and no single person is responsible for everything

 

[arthurka]

What I am most concerned about regarding Ole is our lack of identity, in the games we have played this season we have played 3-5-2, 3-4-3, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 with 3 different variations (diamond, wingers and tightened up the central area close to 4-2-2-2). I am just afraid and have been for some while the he is always reacting to how the oppositions play instead of having others worrying with how we play.
Sadly I don´t see us changing this anytime soon and it won´t happen until we change managers. Plus his stubborn stance on DDG and others will be the end of him.

 

[justsomebloke]

What I am most concerned about regarding Ole is our lack of identity, in the games we have played this season we have played 3-5-2, 3-4-3, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 with 3 different variations (diamond, wingers and tightened up the central area close to 4-2-2-2). I am just afraid and have been for some while the he is always reacting to how the oppositions play instead of having others worrying with how we play.
Sadly I don´t see us changing this anytime soon and it won´t happen until we change managers. Plus his stubborn stance on DDG and others will be the end of him.

I'm not worried about him playing DDG, I think that's the right choice. But your first point is also my chief worry. We seemed late last season to have settled on 4231 and a certain way of implementing that. And that not only worked, it seemed a viable template for the future. I accept up to a point that there might be games where it's prudent to do something else, and you also have to consider that the transfer window left us with a squad that isn't well suited to that formation in terms of depth. But right now, there isn't any clarity either on what's our normal formation or how we are supposed to play. The other options used generally produces more control and security, but less offensive pressure. The second half against Southampton seemed to show, for the first time, that we can also generate serious offense with the 442 diamond, so maybe it's partly a transition issue. But I'm not convinced.

And OGS isn't helping matters with his approach to communication. He's just not explaining what he's doing and why, which is probably needlessly adding to the pressure on him.

 

[MU655]

Regarding out style that is basically what every team does. Parked busses are hard to deal with, thats why teams bother with it. I agree that we can get better at breaking them down, but imo every parked buss in history has been beaten by good attacking play or "individual brilliance" in some capacity, a clever pass that opens up space or a dribble that gives a player room to shoot

I'd say net spend is more relevant than simply spend, because the former takes into account that you lost a good player, while the latter does not.

Yeah, about those numbers, i looked at this site, they say they got it from tranfermarkt (like everyone else) but i looked at it again and something does not add up there with us. Did they not include Bruno?

I feel net spend is very limited in terms of judging a manager who has only held the position for a short period. But if they have held the position for a long enough time to oversee the majority of the team being purchased under them, I would understand its use. Any sale (profit/loss) in that case will be based on the signings that the manager made, not based on the previous one.

The net spend is greatly affected by the sale of Lukaku, who was signed under Mourinho. If you assume that all signings are made/wanted by the manager present, should it not be Mourinho who receives plaudits for signing a player who actually maintains most of his worth? Net spend can be too greatly impacted by the previous manager when it is such a short time.

Look at the team Mourinho inherited. Who was actually worth anything at the time? Martial, Rashford (Potentially, but not much as it was less than half a season), and De Gea. Other than that, there was nobody of great worth; the players he sold were not really worth much and the other options weren't much better. (Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Rooney, Carrick, Depay, Darmian, Keane, Blackett, Powell, Valdes, Januzaj, Varela, McNair).

You could argue that the choice to sell gives them the credit, but I don't think that true. If you take this argument, it would in some ways be criticising another manager for not selling. Mourinho could have sold De Gea for £60m and it would have made his net spend a whole lot better, but judging by his performances in 17/18, it would have been a bad decision. In the same way, Solskjaer has had the choice to sell Pogba for a hefty amount; no matter whether you are a fan or not

Also, another issue with this net spend is that wages are ignored. Surely, wages should be included to determine the true net spend? Our player wages this year are supposedly higher than ever, by almost £30m annually.

 

[arthurka]

I'm not worried about him playing DDG, I think that's the right choice. But your first point is also my chief worry. We seemed late last season to have settled on 4231 and a certain way of implementing that. And that not only worked, it seemed a viable template for the future. I accept up to a point that there might be games where it's prudent to do something else, and you also have to consider that the transfer window left us with a squad that isn't well suited to that formation in terms of depth. But right now, there isn't any clarity either on what's our normal formation or how we are supposed to play. The other options used generally produces more control and security, but less offensive pressure. The second half against Southampton seemed to show, for the first time, that we can also generate serious offense with the 442 diamond, so maybe it's partly a transition issue. But I'm not convinced.

And OGS isn't helping matters with his approach to communication. He's just not explaining what he's doing and why, which is probably needlessly adding to the pressure on him.

My problem with this is the lack of understanding and the lack of team chemistry that always occurs with teams that lack clear setup and a way to play. Plus the defense will never become any good if you are not settled in a system. You cannot drill into perfection 5-6 different systems and change between them every week. It's very odd and reeks of a man in trouble.

 

[AshRK]

If we don't get 6 points from the next two games then I will have no hope with him or the squad. I still don't think he is the man to take us forward but if we we somehow get 14 points from next 18 before we face Pool then we may end up having somewhat decent season. If not just finish this season and let him go. I don't trust thia board to be ruthless and sack him right away so please do the needful at the end of the season if we are not challenging for the title.

 

[justsomebloke]

If we don't get 6 points from the next two games then I will have no hope with him or the squad. I still don't think he is the man to take us forward but if we we somehow get 14 points from next 18 before we face Pool then we may end up having somewhat decent season. If not just finish this season and let him go. I don't trust thia board to be ruthless and sack him right away so please do the needful at the end of the season if we are not challenging for the title.

I don't think challenging for the title is a relevant point of reference this season. Our squad isn't good enough for that. If we do challenge for the title, then we are either totally overperforming, or the opposition is underperforming, or both. If we get 14 points in the next 6 games, we'll be heading for a lot better than "a somewhat decent season". And please, we are smack in the middle of things already right now. To talk as if you might as well just cancel the season unless things go really well in the next 5-6 games frankly shows that you're evaluating our current position far too negatively, in combination with having wildly exaggerated notions of what reasonable expectations mean.

 

[AshRK]

I don't think challenging for the title is a relevant point of reference this season. Our squad isn't good enough for that. If we do challenge for the title, then we are either totally overperforming, or the opposition is underperforming, or both. If we get 14 points in the next 6 games, we'll be heading for a lot better than "a somewhat decent season". And please, we are smack in the middle of things already right now. To talk as if you might as well just cancel the season unless things go really well in the next 5-6 games frankly shows that you're evaluating our current position far too negatively, in combination with having wildly exaggerated notions of what reasonable expectations mean.

Context of this season matters. This is not a season where the league winners will end up with 97 points. I can easily see a winner ending up with 85 odd points so we can definitely challenge. Moreover if a team like spurs can end up challenging this season , why not us.

I have backed Ole a lot and still hope he is the man to take us to the top again but the fact that we couldn't even get 1 point against PSG and RBL to progress hurts. I want to see progress from last season. If come april we are again 5th or 6th and chasing the 4th position, well for me that is not progress.

 

[Lentwood]

Context of this season matters. This is not a season where the league winners will end up with 97 points. I can easily see a winner ending up with 85 odd points so we can definitely challenge.

We need to stop going on about “points” as if it’s something different from league position.

The team with the most points will win the league and whether that’s 60/70/80/90 or 100pts really has no bearing for me.

I’m just sick of reading that “we achieved 3rd because everybody else got record low points” - it’s one of the daftest sticks to beat Ole with I’ve seen

 

[AshRK]

We need to stop going on about “points” as if it’s something different from league position.

The team with the most points will win the league and whether that’s 60/70/80/90 or 100pts really has no bearing for me.

I’m just sick of reading that “we achieved 3rd because everybody else got record low points” - it’s one of the daftest sticks to beat Ole with I’ve seen

You got me wrong there. I said keeping the context of the season we can definitely challenge for the title. I don't mind winning the title with 65 points if so be it. But we need to have progress. If come april we are again just fighting for top 4 then I don't know how much we can grow under this manager.

 

[Bilbo]

I don't think challenging for the title is a relevant point of reference this season. Our squad isn't good enough for that. If we do challenge for the title, then we are either totally overperforming, or the opposition is underperforming, or both. If we get 14 points in the next 6 games, we'll be heading for a lot better than "a somewhat decent season". And please, we are smack in the middle of things already right now. To talk as if you might as well just cancel the season unless things go really well in the next 5-6 games frankly shows that you're evaluating our current position far too negatively, in combination with having wildly exaggerated notions of what reasonable expectations mean.

Yes there is certainly an element of always moving goalposts amongst many, which is where the 'this is Oles first real test' joke originated. Last season it was 'get top 4 and he gets the next season'. He did that. Now its 'we need to be in the challenging'. We are doing that.

14 points from the next 6 would effectively give us 27 out of the last 33 - 8 wins and 3 draws. That would be an outstanding run of form in these circumstances, and if we managed to achieve that we would probably be top of the league. The good thing is that its actually achievable.....

Sheff Utd (A)
Leeds (H)
Leicester (A)
Wolves (H)
Villa (H)
Fulham (A)

.....but its a game every few days so no doubt there are going to be some surprising results around the league over this period. One interesting point that caught my eye is that our two toughest games here (Leicester & Wolves) both come directly after they have just played Tottenham. That could play in our favour.

 

[Bilbo]

You got me wrong there. I said keeping the context of the season we can definitely challenge for the title. I don't mind winning the title with 65 points if so be it. But we need to have progress. If come april we are again just fighting for top 4 then I don't know how much we can grow under this manager.

To be in a position where we are not fighting for top 4 in April we'd need to be, in theory, at least 6 and as much as 10 points ahead of 5th. That's quite unlikely. Even with a 6 point cushion we wouldn't be comfortable. I suspect that there will be a relatively small points gap between 1st and 5th for most of this season.

 

[justsomebloke]

Context of this season matters. This is not a season where the league winners will end up with 97 points. I can easily see a winner ending up with 85 odd points so we can definitely challenge. Moreover if a team like spurs can end up challenging this season , why not us.

I have backed Ole a lot and still hope he is the man to take us to the top again but the fact that we couldn't even get 1 point against PSG and RBL to progress hurts. I want to see progress from last season. If come april we are again 5th or 6th and chasing the 4th position, well for me that is not progress.

Yes, that's what I was referring to when I wrote "if the opposition is underperforming". They have so far, but that may or may not continue to be the case. If everybody else continues being as inconsistent as they've been so far, then we certainly will have a chance.

But that's something different from having that as a baseline expectation for the season. In practice, if you're expecting a "title challenge" or a "top 4 finish", what you're asking for is a number of points that are in a certain range, because nobody can know before a season ends what it will actually take to win or finish top 4 - and also, that is as much up to how other teams are doing as to how your team is performing. Expect a title challenge, and what you're asking is for is something like 90 points. Expect top 4, and what you're asking for is something like 70 points.

About 75-80 points is where I think the expectation for this team should be - an improvement of 10-15 points over last season, which considering we were rubbish until February and went undefeated from there onwards, would not be an outlandish expectation. That's unlikely to be enough to win the league even this year, but it's enough that we'd be in that fight if things continue as they are. And in a normal season, it'd significantly shorten the gap to the top. Currently, we're on pace for 69. Which is not great, but also not bad, and close enough that it won't take that much to get to 75-80. Win the next two, and we're at 76.

There was a nice piece on ESPN about how absurd this season is. Liverpool and Tottenham's 25 points are the lowest points total a league leader's had after 12 games in PL history. Simultaneously, the distance from the top to 10th place is the smallest it's ever been in PL history - and that's not even considering that the 8th, 9th, and 10th place teams all have a game in hand (or two, in Villa's case). TOT/LIV project to get 79 points - 20 fewer than Liverpool last year, and even 2 fewer than Leicester when they won the PL in 2016. It's nuts.

 

[Bobcat]

After two years I can safely say Ole has two plans:
1) Counterattack any team who plays on the front foot.
2) Rely on individual brilliance to tackle teams playing on the backfoot.
I don't see him changing his fundamental philosophy and

I feel net spend is very limited in terms of judging a manager who has only held the position for a short period. But if they have held the position for a long enough time to oversee the majority of the team being purchased under them, I would understand its use. Any sale (profit/loss) in that case will be based on the signings that the manager made, not based on the previous one.

The net spend is greatly affected by the sale of Lukaku, who was signed under Mourinho. If you assume that all signings are made/wanted by the manager present, should it not be Mourinho who receives plaudits for signing a player who actually maintains most of his worth? Net spend can be too greatly impacted by the previous manager when it is such a short time.

Look at the team Mourinho inherited. Who was actually worth anything at the time? Martial, Rashford (Potentially, but not much as it was less than half a season), and De Gea. Other than that, there was nobody of great worth; the players he sold were not really worth much and the other options weren't much better. (Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Rooney, Carrick, Depay, Darmian, Keane, Blackett, Powell, Valdes, Januzaj, Varela, McNair).

You could argue that the choice to sell gives them the credit, but I don't think that true. If you take this argument, it would in some ways be criticising another manager for not selling. Mourinho could have sold De Gea for £60m and it would have made his net spend a whole lot better, but judging by his performances in 17/18, it would have been a bad decision. In the same way, Solskjaer has had the choice to sell Pogba for a hefty amount; no matter whether you are a fan or not

Also, another issue with this net spend is that wages are ignored. Surely, wages should be included to determine the true net spend? Our player wages this year are supposedly higher than ever, by almost £30m annually.

Well considering spending constantly gets mentioned when managers are evaluated, net spend is the best metric to use, but i never said it was perfect.

Managers dont handle finances, wages or contracts so all that becomes irrelevant really when discussing them

 

[OrcaFat]

Yes, that's what I was referring to when I wrote "if the opposition is underperforming". They have so far, but that may or may not continue to be the case. If everybody else continues being as inconsistent as they've been so far, then we certainly will have a chance.

But that's something different from having that as a baseline expectation for the season. In practice, if you're expecting a "title challenge" or a "top 4 finish", what you're asking for is a number of points that are in a certain range, because nobody can know before a season ends what it will actually take to win or finish top 4 - and also, that is as much up to how other teams are doing as to how your team is performing. Expect a title challenge, and what you're asking is for is something like 90 points. Expect top 4, and what you're asking for is something like 70 points.

About 75-80 points is where I think the expectation for this team should be - an improvement of 10-15 points over last season, which considering we were rubbish until February and went undefeated from there onwards, would not be an outlandish expectation. That's unlikely to be enough to win the league even this year, but it's enough that we'd be in that fight if things continue as they are. And in a normal season, it'd significantly shorten the gap to the top. Currently, we're on pace for 69. Which is not great, but also not bad, and close enough that it won't take that much to get to 75-80. Win the next two, and we're at 76.

There was a nice piece on ESPN about how absurd this season is. Liverpool and Tottenham's 25 points are the lowest points total a league leader's had after 12 games in PL history. Simultaneously, the distance from the top to 10th place is the smallest it's ever been in PL history - and that's not even considering that the 8th, 9th, and 10th place teams all have a game in hand (or two, in Villa's case). TOT/LIV project to get 79 points - 20 fewer than Liverpool last year, and even 2 fewer than Leicester when they won the PL in 2016. It's nuts.

Good post.

70-75 pts would be good progress for us. If we’re not completely out of the title race by March that will get us pumped up for a proper challenge next year.

 

[Lentwood]

You got me wrong there. I said keeping the context of the season we can definitely challenge for the title. I don't mind winning the title with 65 points if so be it. But we need to have progress. If come april we are again just fighting for top 4 then I don't know how much we can grow under this manager.

Yeah wasn’t really aimed at you I’ve seen loads of posters criticising Ole and saying “worst PL season ever” which is nonsense really because our points total is only relevant to the other teams’ points totals - hence a “league” format!

Even though I’m Ole in I have also got my doubts about his ability to win trophies but I’ll judge him on that once I think we have the squad to do it. I think we’re all in agreement there where definitely two, potentially four, teams that had better squads than us - so in my eyes finishing 3rd was a very good effort.

For those saying “we’re the new Arsenal” I totally disagree - Arsenal cemented top four and the whole argument related to their ambitions to kick on. We have yet to cement top four post-SAF, in fact I don’t think we have qualified two seasons running yet! Let’s stabilise as an established top four team before we start moaning about being “the new Arsenal” because not so long ago we’ve finished 7th and 6th! Let’s not forget those days!

 

[united for life]

Have to be honest, don’t quite like the sound bites after the City game. Seems like we are happy that we didn’t get outplayed. That is not the reaction that a Manchester United manager should ever have irrespective of where we are in the table. We should always demand the absolute best and be disappointed every time we drop points. That is the only way we progress to the next level. Coaches, players have to demand perfection from each other.

Its easy to forget that at Man united, Top 4 is not good enough. It can be a stepping milestone like it was last year but it cannot be an end in itself. This season should be about how we progress to become a title challenger. If we are again aiming for Top 4 then we are losing sight of what Man United represents.

I agree that a top 4 finish should not be an aim, but for us, last year was a year of consolidation. Getting the basics right. In general, we did well. Finished third, reached far in cups (not an ambition, but an indication that we are going in the right direction). This year is important to maintain what was done last year. For the last 7 years, we have been so inconsistent, I can not really say we've been a top 4 team (I'm not even going to talk about how far we've been from being title contenders). There was a season where we finished second, a couple we finished sixth, another fifth. We've even finished seventh once upon a time. I see this season as a season where we need to focus on cementing our position as a top 4 team. Sounds odd to be a season expectation for us, but I truly believe we need to set realistic expectations to avoid being let down and most importantly to avoid this disturbing trend of sacking managers every other season. It's fine, we are rebuilding. I personally would've hoped for a better summer in terms of signings. Nonetheless, we have a good squad in general; a squad that can achieve top 4. A top 4 finish would be good this year. Despite the fact that no team stood out so far this year, I still think we are not as good as Liverpool (writing this hurts!!!), Chelsea and City.

 

[Greck]

When did consecutive top 4 finishes with no trophy become a progress metric? Don't know what targets the board gave Ole for the league and the cups but surely that can't be all

 

[RedTiger]

Tuanzebe is 21

He's 23. Same as Rashy, James, TFM, Henderson, AWB and VDB. We've got a nice balance of ages in the squad which I'm very happy about. I do find it funny that Mctominay is older than all of them by a year and that Jones is only a year older than Maguire.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Making top 4 this season will be very tough. Doubt we do it tbh.

If he lasts that long and we don't make it hopefully that is the end of this silly experiment.

 

[wolvored]

The season will pan out depending on whether Bruno can stay fit or not. Wthout him we drop off a lot. This showed when he started on the bench against West Ham. The difference was night and day when he came on.

 

[Leftback99]

Making top 4 this season will be very tough. Doubt we do it tbh.

If he lasts that long and we don't make it hopefully that is the end of this silly experiment.

It will be tough whoever we have in charge.

 

[Hugh Jass]

What worries me is what i have been saying for a while and what G Neville basically said. We rely on individual moments or individual brilliance to score. We are not collectively break down teams.

It was what i was hoping for when we hired Ole. That he would coach us how to attack as a unit from defence to the strikers.

 

[laughtersassassin]

It will be tough whoever we have in charge.

True. But for a manager being here two years not making it isn't acceptable

 

[Leftback99]

True. But for a manager being hear two years not making it isn't acceptable

Our average position for the last 7 years is 5th.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

So this is what we've turned into, the same question every year, can we make top 4. Hard to believe it's a Manchester United forum.

 

[Tom Cato]

True. But for a manager being here two years not making it isn't acceptable

We're ahead of schedule since last season, what is the problem here? We're in all cups, results from past season have improved. We're out of the CL but that's more of a big dissapointment than anything.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

So this is what we've turned into, the same question every year, can we make top 4. Hard to believe it's a Manchester United forum.

I do wonder when it will end. Let's say we get another underwhelming transfer window again (most likely scenario) and we still have the likes of Chelsea Liverpool and City with a better squad than us, are the expectations still going to be just top 4? Then what about next two seasons with another transfer window but Chelsea and City have a better squad than us still. Just top 4 again?

We are all waiting for a transfer window that will transform our squad's strength to be greater than or equal the best teams and then we can expect a title win. We've been waiting for how many years now?

 

[laughtersassassin]

Our average position for the last 7 years is 5th.

And that's not good enough

 

[laughtersassassin]

We're ahead of schedule since last season, what is the problem here? We're in all cups, results from past season have improved. We're out of the CL but that's more of a big dissapointment than anything.

I love how you just brush off being out of the CL. The way we went out showed extreme negligence. It's a big negative and cannot be ignored.

We also have an issue of conceeding first almost every game that needs to be sorted.

 

[justsomebloke]

True. But for a manager being here two years not making it isn't acceptable

"Not making it"? Well, that depends on what you expect. For my part, I expected him to spend at least a year being worse than we'd been before he took over, and then gradually build up a contender over years 2 and 3. I would have been disappointed if the club proceeded on any other basis, because it was obvious that this was what was required if we wanted to become a top team again. What he inherited, you couldn't patchwork into a contender. Building a team takes time. And I'd much, much, much rather have team that can compete for titles many years ahead in 1-2 seasons, than one that can maybe get to second right now. The squad is not there yet.

If your expectation is that any manager needs to win within two years or he's out, you want something that is bad for the club. The whole entitlement thing is just ridiculous. "We're United, and not winning isn't acceptable to me, and if you don't give me what I want, you should be kicked out". Pfft. Being United doesn't mean anything, unless it means something that you continuously recreate again and again. To do that, you need a team capable of doing it. If we make bad decisions, we'll lose, same as anyone else. And we've had a decade of bad decisions. If you want it fixed, have some patience, because there isn't a quick fix. And no, two years is not a long time.

 

[laughtersassassin]

"Not making it"? Well, that depends on what you expect. For my part, I expected him to spend at least a year being worse than we'd been before he took over, and then gradually build up a contender over years 2 and 3. I would have been disappointed if the club proceeded on any other basis, because it was obvious that this was what was required if we wanted to become a top team again. What he inherited, you couldn't patchwork into a contender. Building a team takes time. And I'd much, much, much rather have team that can compete for titles many years ahead in 1-2 seasons, than one that can maybe get to second right now. The squad is not there yet.

If your expectation is that any manager needs to win within two years or he's out, you want something that is bad for the club. The whole entitlement thing is just ridiculous. "We're United, and not winning isn't acceptable to me, and if you don't give me what I want, you should be kicked out". Pfft. Being United doesn't mean anything, unless it means something that you continuously recreate again and again. To do that, you need a team capable of doing it. If we make bad decisions, we'll lose, same as anyone else. And we've had a decade of bad decisions. If you want it fixed, have some patience, because there isn't a quick fix. And no, two years is not a long time.

What are you on about?

My comments where on top 4. Not making it refers to that.

If we where not to make top 4 it cannot be tolerated. Unless we are moving the goalpost for an ex player and that would be a stupid thing to do.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Our average position for the last 7 years is 5th.

Hence why managers are losing their jobs.

Chelsea’s average position is 4th, but Frank will be out on his arse for that finish after his spending.

Chelsea have gone through more managers than us, and have 2 league titles to show for it.
They have rewarded a 10th placed finish with the sack and a league title the following season, and Mourinho followed up a 3rd place finish with a title, and still got sacked the following season, resulting in that title I mentioned earlier.
Cause “standards”.

Only reason Frank made it through last year was the transfer ban, he won’t get away with it this season as Chelsea/Roman have those standards.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Our average position for the last 7 years is 5th.

So what? Does that mean we shouldn’t have sacked Atkinson (a manager with much more on his CV than Molde and Cardiff relegation)? We have been average because we have appointed mediocre, past it or ill-suited managers.

 

[Hellboy]

So what? Does that mean we shouldn’t have sacked Atkinson (a manager with much more on his CV than Molde and Cardiff relegation)? We have been average because we have appointed mediocre, past it or ill-suited managers.

100 %

We all wanted it to work but he's not good enough plain and simple !

 

[FatherWolff]

100 %

We all wanted it to work but he's not good enough plain and simple !

Thats the spirit boys! With teams loosing points left and right, let’s go on with this mentality. Will be a festive season with games coming thick and thin

 

[Zen86]

First no one forced you to reply on me if you think I'm talking out of my arse, the ignore option is always available, so joke is on you, really. If you think someone inventing things out of his mind why are you talking to him ?

Second yes whenever we opened our mouth about the squad, Woodward or team last few years the response was always "the buck stops with the manager". Feel free to refresh your memories and revisit old threads if you want. This is what happened and what I have seen myself. Not my problem if you want to believe that everyone were attacking Woodward as fiercely as they're now.

If you think the Caf unanimously agreed on anything in the last 7 years, then you’ve got a very selective memory.

As for your first comment, yes I think I’ll do just that.

 

[Leftback99]

Hence why managers are losing their jobs.

Chelsea’s average position is 4th, but Frank will be out on his arse for that finish after his spending.

Chelsea have gone through more managers than us, and have 2 league titles to show for it.
They have rewarded a 10th placed finish with the sack and a league title the following season, and Mourinho followed up a 3rd place finish with a title, and still got sacked the following season, resulting in that title I mentioned earlier.
Cause “standards”.

Only reason Frank made it through last year was the transfer ban, he won’t get away with it this season as Chelsea/Roman have those standards.

Too right they sacked a manager who had 15 points from his first 16 games with a title winning squad.

 

[Rightnr]

Thats the spirit boys! With teams loosing points left and right, let’s go on with this mentality. Will be a festive season with games coming thick and thin

What is this even supposed to mean. This post is of the same quality as our tactics.

 

[VP89]

Great opportunity to pick up some points over rivals for Thursday, but if we play shit I'd be wary of blaming Ole as much now. Just look at how everyone else is playing, it's tough to avoid pointing at relative circumstance here.