Buying talented, young players is not in United's identity? No matter what the cost? Rooney & Ferdinand are two others that spring to mind, albeit playing in different positions and Ferdinand being older.
Would you rather sign Shaw for £30m or...
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Buying talented, young players is not in United's identity? No matter what the cost? Rooney & Ferdinand are two others that spring to mind, albeit playing in different positions and Ferdinand being older.
It's not specifically Luke Shaw, but the idea that we shouldn't care about value's, something that is heavily discussed since the Moyes era. To pay 30 million pounds for a LB, who are have less worth, just like goalkeepers mostly, while their are plenty good options like Morena, Rodriguez, Blind, even that Swansea LB is very good is just not smart. He has had his first full season and has done well, but to already pay 30 million is just ridiculous imo.
Nor is signing young English players. Wait...
I'm not suggesting we do a City, PSG or whatever. But we need to replace quality with quality, and you don't get that unless you spend a bit.
Ah, ok
Annoys me when people are afraid to invest in exceptional young talents. Shaw has already proven himself a complete player at left-back at the age of 18. Invest in him and help him develop even further, and we have a huge asset for the club for quite some time.
I am 100% certain the same people frightened to sign Shaw are those who bemoaned our signing of de Gea, calling him unproven, a huge gamble, a crucial error. Perhaps there could have been an alternative who would have slotted in slightly more seamlessly, but there is no one who could have brought us more satisfaction in helping develop his considerable talents even further and we now have perhaps the finest goalkeeper in world football at only 23 years old.
I will always wish for our club to sign talented youngsters. Shaw is the perfect acquisition, already proven, but we can help him develop even further. I hate when people wish us to sign ready-made stars who might give us 2 or 3 years of service before succumbing to age and decline.
I am 100% certain the same people frightened to sign Shaw are those who bemoaned our signing of de Gea, calling him unproven, a huge gamble, a crucial error. Perhaps there could have been an alternative who would have slotted in slightly more seamlessly, but there is no one who could have brought us more satisfaction in helping develop his considerable talents even further and we now have perhaps the finest goalkeeper in world football at only 23 years old.
I will always wish for our club to sign talented youngsters. Shaw is the perfect acquisition, already proven, but we can help him develop even further. I hate when people wish us to sign ready-made stars who might give us 2 or 3 years of service before succumbing to age and decline.
Ah I misunderstood your stance. I thought you meant we shouldn't spend big at all rather than just being cautious over Shaw. Yeah its a fair point, he's unproven and its a huge investment. I'm all for getting a top player in for half the fee of Shaw of course but the focus should always be on quality, not cost cutting.
You said spending a bit, but paying 30 million pounds for a LB who have less worth, he has had his first full season is a bit ridiculous imo. There are plenty options, we don't want to end up like last summer. Focus on a player and forget the rest (Thiago, Fabregas) while their were plenty fish in the ocean.
Shaw is the best option available. We should do whatever it takes to sign him if Southampton will not sell than move to other targets.
I would go for Shaw. He is a brilliant young player with the potential to get even better.
And we also will need to spend next year as well. I can't see us spending 100m net now and then 50-60m next year.
Shaw would be a very serious investment and i think it would mean that in other areas we will be force to spent less. Maybe it won't stop second major transfer, but we need more than two players.
From little I have seen from Rodriguez, he looks better than Shaw (although a couple of years older) so I think that I would have preferred him instead of Shaw (especially considering that mst likely he would cost around 10m less).
For the question Shaw or Blind, BMI and Vermalen I would go with Shaw mainly because I haven't watched that much Blind and BMI to know how good they are, while Vermalen would cost cheap either way and we can get him regardless.
For the question Shaw or Blind, BMI and Vermalen I would go with Shaw mainly because I haven't watched that much Blind and BMI to know how good they are, while Vermalen would cost cheap either way and we can get him regardless.
He's not currently worth 30m pounds, no. But 30m (If that, i think it will be nearer to 25-27m, and partly based on appearances, honours etc.) is an investment not just in him but in the future of the side. We're paying for a few things, English tax is unfortunately one of them but he's one of the countries leading talents. We're also seeing to it that we secure the LB spot for what may be 10+ years. That's where the fee comes from.
Or we could go with a budget option like Blind, who is arguably not as good, doesn't have the same potential, is older, and takes up an increasingly precious foreign spot in the squad. I'm not suggesting we abandon looking for value in the market. Look at Vidal, Gundogan etc. If we can scout the next one of those, or even another Hernandez then happy days. Until then, we shouldn't be afraid to invest big money in potentially world class youth. I'm sure many similar discussions have been held on here before with regard to Ferdinand and Rooney all those years ago.
I'd buy both Shaw and Blind, so long as the money's right. They would both improve our squad and play very different roles.
The thing you have to realise is that Blind is playing as a wing-back for Holland which, arguably, isn't his strongest position, yet he's playing incredibly well, as witnessed by his performance against Spain, in Van Gaal's system. He'll be the steal of the summer at the sort of price Ajax will expect for him. That said, his value will go up if he continues to play so well for Holland.
Shaw's done well in the league and I am quite certain he's going to be a very good player with time, but people get ahead of themselves about young English players. Let's put this in perspective. Baines was lightyears behind Blind tactically, both in defense and going forward, in his performance against Italy, yet few are calling for Shaw to replace Baines in the England team (although I think it's probably time he did). Either way, Van Gaal won't buy into any hype. He'll sign the players he knows will perform well with his tactics in mind. Blind might be more of a priority for him than Shaw based on what I've seen.
The thing you have to realise is that Blind is playing as a wing-back for Holland which, arguably, isn't his strongest position, yet he's playing incredibly well, as witnessed by his performance against Spain, in Van Gaal's system. He'll be the steal of the summer at the sort of price Ajax will expect for him. That said, his value will go up if he continues to play so well for Holland.
Shaw's done well in the league and I am quite certain he's going to be a very good player with time, but people get ahead of themselves about young English players. Let's put this in perspective. Baines was lightyears behind Blind tactically, both in defense and going forward, in his performance against Italy, yet few are calling for Shaw to replace Baines in the England team (although I think it's probably time he did). Either way, Van Gaal won't buy into any hype. He'll sign the players he knows will perform well with his tactics in mind. Blind might be more of a priority for him than Shaw based on what I've seen.
Yeah I have heard of the English tax xD, but their are also other options who are maybe better. Investment also brings risks, we have seen that, maybe Jones will be wrongly used money, maybe Zaha will be, except for 1,5 seasons Nani also was, Ando. I don't think it will be right to build our team by taking too many risks, Rodriguez, Moreno, Bernat they are all very good options.
Every transfer carries risk. While Shaw is PL proven, the others you mentioned are not.
Shaw for sure. We have enough average/squad players.
That's true, but to risk 30 million for an 18 year old boy is different from risking 15 million for a really proven Bundesliga LB. But we also shouldn't overrate Shaw, he is good but not world class yet, especially his going forward is named often but he doesn't get productivity out of it. 1 assist and 0 goals this season, defensively he is solid but not he still causes too many fouls, Rodriguez, Moreno are better at the moment, Blind also.
I have no logical footballing explanation for this, but I'd be disappointed if we didn't get Shaw now and he ended up at Chelsea.
Shaw is better defensively than the three mentioned. And how is Rodriguez proven and Shaw isn't.
I don't think anyone is expecting Shaw to be world class at 18, but with LVG coming in and the squad undergoing an out with the old, in with the new style change, maybe he feels a young, English player is easier to mold, and better for the club than someone like Blind in their mid-twenties.
I guess you have to trust the club to get these things right.
Blind looks versatile and very good, Martins Indi looks a talent but a bit raw, and Vermaelen at 28 just isn't good enough.
I know this isn't really answering the question, but I'd rather spend big on Shaw and also bring in Blind to play primarily in midfield.
I know this isn't really answering the question, but I'd rather spend big on Shaw and also bring in Blind to play primarily in midfield.
Have you ever seen Rodriguez play? If you haven't go to good sites where they rate players and you will see, and youtube him. That won't give the perfect perception of him, but is a good indicator. He has been involved in 18 goals this season as a LB, attacking wise he is much further than Luke, defensively they are comparable.
I rate Rodriguez. I am just saying how does Rodriguez's two seasons in the Bundesliga count as proven and not Shaw's two seasons in the Premier League.
Well i think it should be balanced. It's okay to overpay for a top and proven player. But to pay that much money for talented but raw young one does seem overly risky.
Ofcourse we should, United have done very good transfers over the years but we have done also very bad signings since Ronaldo the only top top signings are De Gea, Mata and RVP, who was not really needed actually, because we had a confident and in form Roo, Welbz coming up and Hernandez? I think something is going wrong, the transfers Fellaini ( he can still prove himself), Zaha (same), Obertan, Valencia, Young, Jones (still has to prove himself), Diouf, Kagawa, Buttner, Bebe, Owen.
I'd prefer us to go dutch than to get Shaw as English players are vastly over rated and over priced.....If teams like Everton and Southampton are able to pick up players that are better than the players that we have got and who can take the premier league by storm at bargain prices such as Dejan Lovren, Morgan Schneiderlin, James McCarthy etc then I think LVG can spend very wisely this summer to make up for the costly Moyes comedy of last summer where we spent 30 Million on a central midfielder that made us weaker in midfield than we were before
Shaw would be awesome and i'd love us to get him but we cn get a player just as good as him elsewhere for a third of the price
Shaw would be awesome and i'd love us to get him but we cn get a player just as good as him elsewhere for a third of the price
Rodriguez has also shown lots international, and the level Rodriguez reached this season is of a much higher level that Shaw has reached yet, but that is not odd Shaw is just 18. I am not saying that Shaw isn't good and he isn't a great talent, but I have my doubts at this transfer and at the idea that value shouldn't matter.
I can only assume that the people who believe Shaw is worth £30 million are the same people who thought England played well against Italy.
Who cares what he is worth(whatever that means). He would be the best signing we could make at the LB position so we should try and sign him.
Shaw had like 1,5 seasons in PL, he became main LB closer to a middle of the season. While Rodriguez had 2,5 seasons with Wolfsburg. He also have some international experience. Yes it's easier to get into Swiss team, than England's one, but hey say that to two assists he made in WC match. I would seriously consider swapping him and Baines if it was possible.
So Shaw is the best LB in the world now? If he is not, why would he be the best signing? Because he is white, 18, has blonde hair and is Ingerlish?
Never said that and why did you bring up race? I am just saying out of all the LBs we could possibly sign he would be the best signing especially when you factor in age. I would love for the club to sign say Alaba but, that would be an impossible signing to make. Out of all the ones we possibly could make he would be the best one.
I can see us spending around that amount within 12 months. I also doubt there's a budget as such, not unlimited but room for manouvering. And yes we definitely need more than two players but if the club sees 30m as sensible for Shaw, then I doubt they'd spend that if it compromised other top targets.
Of course there's a fine line between the value argument, and developing young talent, but the bolded names are examples in my opinion of this value approach which has seen us fall behind.
Blind isn't good enough to be a first choice left back for us. However if the choice was Ricardo Rodriguez and Vermaelen for the price of 1 Luke Shaw, then I'd be tempered for Rodriguez and Verm. Rodriguez is more established than Shaw right now and would very likely be cheaper. This is only if Southampton are fecking about and rejecting 30m from us.
Fwiw, I think Shaw is all but done anyway. I've heard he wants the United move and the feeling around St Mary's is that it's inevitable.
Fwiw, I think Shaw is all but done anyway. I've heard he wants the United move and the feeling around St Mary's is that it's inevitable.
Shaw.
I couldnt care less if we spent 40m on him, we need a young talented left back, he's the best there is at his age.
Its not our job as fans to state how much players are worth or their value. Dont get me wrong i appreciate that the more money the club spend the more money eventually they will fleece out of us, but quite frankly there are much cleverer people than us making the money decisions about transfers and they have a lot more to lose than we do when they make a feck up...which they do/will.
Lets cut the bull, nobody here really cares about how much we spend on players or wether its their true 'value' or not. What people on here care about is spending lots on a dud and then having to defend our club to some cockney or scouse feckwit in the pub who takes the piss out of us for spunking 27m on fellaini et al. Thats what were all trying to avoid, but feck it lets just get the players we need and spend what we have to.
I couldnt care less if we spent 40m on him, we need a young talented left back, he's the best there is at his age.
Its not our job as fans to state how much players are worth or their value. Dont get me wrong i appreciate that the more money the club spend the more money eventually they will fleece out of us, but quite frankly there are much cleverer people than us making the money decisions about transfers and they have a lot more to lose than we do when they make a feck up...which they do/will.
Lets cut the bull, nobody here really cares about how much we spend on players or wether its their true 'value' or not. What people on here care about is spending lots on a dud and then having to defend our club to some cockney or scouse feckwit in the pub who takes the piss out of us for spunking 27m on fellaini et al. Thats what were all trying to avoid, but feck it lets just get the players we need and spend what we have to.
Talk about making stuff up. What has that got to do with anything? Where did he even claim such things? ?
I want Shaw, and if Woodward truly thinks that buying three cheaper options like Vermalen is going to do the job, than he is truly a fool. Woodward must buy top shelf players like Shaw, missing out on Fabregas was his first mistake, if we are to get back into the Champions League.
I 100% agree, but I do think BLind would be a cheap and easy additional purchase. He is far better than BUttner as a backup LB and can also play as a DM.