We need 6 or 7 new starters, and I wouldn't be sad to see most of them leave.
Would you prefer taking slow approach in transfer window or an massive overhaul of our squad?
- Thread starter deafepl
- Start date
So it should take us 3 years to bring in 6 players. Don't think the fans will hold out for that, mate. We need 4/5 players in this window alone. CB, RB, 2 Midfielders and a Winger, and we need to keep building from this.
Big changes, can lead to success but it takes time and money, lots of money.
Chelsea in Abramovich first summer at the club, they bought in around 11 first team/squad players costing around £140m, the following summer they spent a similar amount on 8 or so players. 20 players for around £300m, with countless departing. Fast forward to 18/19 they bought in just 4 players (including Higuain/loan fee) that cost £180m. In today’s market a overhaul like the summers of 03/04 isn’t feasible, especially under frugal owners, who don’t like spending their own money. How much would 9 first team players cost this summer?
For City and the Sheikhs, it took them huge investment and 6 years to deliver the PL title. In Peps first summer, there wasn’t a massive overhaul, it wasn’t until the following summer where there was substantial squad departures.
As for Liverpool, Klopp has been slowly changing the playing squad since Rodgers over the past 4 seasons. It didn’t happen overnight. And in that time, we’ve won more silverware.
Most of us would prefer a massive cull, there’s probably 12 players most of us would get rid of. 4/5 in this summer, with maybe 6/8 outs, not including Pogba, DDG would be great start.
5 in - 8 out - promote youth. Then get rid of some others next summer.
No more than 5 out, and 3+1 in
The +1 a rough diamond like Sid James or whatever he's called from Swansea, nothing ventured, nothing gained
The +1 a rough diamond like Sid James or whatever he's called from Swansea, nothing ventured, nothing gained
Agree. But it won't work out if those other players aren't shipped out though - the squad has players like Rojo who came on for a match and treated like a novelty because he's been so far from first-team action. He could have been sent off twice in 20 minutes.
Almost everyone can see we need a big clear out.
3 released: Mata, Herrera, Valencia
5 sold: Bailly, Rojo, Darmian, Matic, Pereira
1 swapped: Lukaku
1 loaned out: Sanchez
Make a decision on contract rebels: DDG, Rashford
Make a decision on le sulks: Martial, Pogba
Bench toothless lions: Young, Jones, Smalling, Shaw, Lingard, Rashford
Sign: 1RB, 1LB, 2CBs, 1RW, 1ST, 1DM, 1CM
Massive overhaul indeed.
3 released: Mata, Herrera, Valencia
5 sold: Bailly, Rojo, Darmian, Matic, Pereira
1 swapped: Lukaku
1 loaned out: Sanchez
Make a decision on contract rebels: DDG, Rashford
Make a decision on le sulks: Martial, Pogba
Bench toothless lions: Young, Jones, Smalling, Shaw, Lingard, Rashford
Sign: 1RB, 1LB, 2CBs, 1RW, 1ST, 1DM, 1CM
Massive overhaul indeed.
Dream scenario. Not going to happen though. Not with this board. Not with this club. Step by step is the plan. Step by step heading towards mediocrity.
Not enough. 3 first teamers aren't enough for this shitty squad.
Sadly, you are absolutely right!
Since we've been recruiting so sensibly and well thought-out over the last few years and already have a solid squad, we can do with a gradual evolution of the squad.
Is what I would ideally be able to say.
Bring on the massive overhaul!
Is what I would ideally be able to say.
Bring on the massive overhaul!
The squad is deficient of talent AND attitude. Complacency had crept in and risk infecting any new players we might bring in. Thus I'd say we should emulate SAF when he found such situation himself. Between 1988 and 1989 he bought 11 players at a time when squads were way smaller then they are now. Not every player signed will make it and that's fine. The aim here is to show to players that United has standards that needs to be kept. Deviate from that and you risk to be kicked out. The time of us being some sort of retirement home for players or a hospital for injury prone ones is over.
I'd say
a- get rid of any player who had been under performing for quite some time, whose not good enough, who hasn't done anything of note at United, who lack attitude or whose too old to do well (Young, Valencia, Darmian, Jones, Bailly, Rojo, Lingard, Martial, Mata, Fred, Sanchez and Lukaku).
b- give DDG, Herrera and Pogba the chance to commit themselves to the club. If not kick them out as well.
c- Promote youths, Chong, Tuanzebe, Periera, Greenwood etc
d- add 7-8 players. As said, they don't necessarily need to be big names. The likes of Bruno Fernandes, Ndidi, Meunier, Fraser, Brooks, Zaniolo, Bergwijn, Tonali etc would do fine. We need people who give actually has the talent and the hunger to succeed
I'd say
a- get rid of any player who had been under performing for quite some time, whose not good enough, who hasn't done anything of note at United, who lack attitude or whose too old to do well (Young, Valencia, Darmian, Jones, Bailly, Rojo, Lingard, Martial, Mata, Fred, Sanchez and Lukaku).
b- give DDG, Herrera and Pogba the chance to commit themselves to the club. If not kick them out as well.
c- Promote youths, Chong, Tuanzebe, Periera, Greenwood etc
d- add 7-8 players. As said, they don't necessarily need to be big names. The likes of Bruno Fernandes, Ndidi, Meunier, Fraser, Brooks, Zaniolo, Bergwijn, Tonali etc would do fine. We need people who give actually has the talent and the hunger to succeed
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This shitty squad won away to PSG, Juventus, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham.
Wolves won against Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool and us. They also drew against Shitty. Does that make them good enough to win the EPL title?
Wow what an incredible achievement. Worthy of an award. Manchester United 2018/2019: we won against PSG (fluked it more like), Juve (see PSG), the worst Chelsea side in a long time, Arsenal (never done that before), AND (you won't belive it) Tottenham.
Are you on a WUM or are you serious. Deluded bunch on here.
There's no guarantee of success either way, 1/ we embark on the slow overhaul-adding 3-4 players each season while putting up with the dross we already have here, DDG and Pogba don't hang around and we stagnate for years.
2/ we gamble on a huge overhaul, it either works (and why would'nt it if we get the right players) or it fails but at least we see the back of the players either not good enough, or those who don't want to be here.
One way or another I think most would agree we need a big clear out, I'd rather lose with the kids, than lose with our overpaid prima donnas.
2/ we gamble on a huge overhaul, it either works (and why would'nt it if we get the right players) or it fails but at least we see the back of the players either not good enough, or those who don't want to be here.
One way or another I think most would agree we need a big clear out, I'd rather lose with the kids, than lose with our overpaid prima donnas.
The responses to this are amazing. I'm not sure how many people who have posted on this thread watched the video, but if they did, it's very clear they learned nothing.
Fans have been demanding a "big overhaul" and "big transfer windows" every season since Ferguson left. Where has it got us? Almost exactly the same place we were at the end of the Moyes season.
Rebuilding a squad takes time. As the video points out, trying to spend excessively and having constant turnover does not allow for sustained success, and often doesn't even guarantee success in the short term. We need to take the time to sign the RIGHT players, not whoever is available at any given transfer window (see Sanchez, Di Maria, Ibrahimovic, Schweinsteiger et al). There's no point dumping the players we have now, regardless of how bad their attitude is, if we can't replace them with young and/or hungry players who can change the culture in the dressing room, fit the manager's plan, and be part of a project that can grow organically. Short term thinking has what's got us into this mess, and attitudes like the below:
will not get us out of it.
Fans have been demanding a "big overhaul" and "big transfer windows" every season since Ferguson left. Where has it got us? Almost exactly the same place we were at the end of the Moyes season.
Rebuilding a squad takes time. As the video points out, trying to spend excessively and having constant turnover does not allow for sustained success, and often doesn't even guarantee success in the short term. We need to take the time to sign the RIGHT players, not whoever is available at any given transfer window (see Sanchez, Di Maria, Ibrahimovic, Schweinsteiger et al). There's no point dumping the players we have now, regardless of how bad their attitude is, if we can't replace them with young and/or hungry players who can change the culture in the dressing room, fit the manager's plan, and be part of a project that can grow organically. Short term thinking has what's got us into this mess, and attitudes like the below:
will not get us out of it.
Either way we need to add some leaders on the pitch
Well if you don't think it's an achievement for 'this shitty' squad to win a must win match in Turin, win in Paris against all odds with a seriously depleted 'shitty' squad, and win at Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham(not sure if the news has reached Austria yet but all three have qualified for a European final in the last few days)with said 'shitty' squad I just can't help you, not sure anybody can.
You enjoy the rest of your day Codfather
We have all discussed a lot about the players that we want to sell. But I think we have another problem which is our top players wanting to leave.
Herrera has left. De Gea might be on the move. Pogba wants to go to Madrid. Lukaku is eyeing a move to Italy. Even Rashford is on his last year of contract and might throw a fuss.
How are we going to handle this? If it was upto me, I'll sell everyone who wants a move and rebuild fresh. But that might be a bit extreme for Ole and can lead to too much uncertainty. It will be interesting to see how we resolve this situation.
Herrera has left. De Gea might be on the move. Pogba wants to go to Madrid. Lukaku is eyeing a move to Italy. Even Rashford is on his last year of contract and might throw a fuss.
How are we going to handle this? If it was upto me, I'll sell everyone who wants a move and rebuild fresh. But that might be a bit extreme for Ole and can lead to too much uncertainty. It will be interesting to see how we resolve this situation.
We need a massive overhaul for at least two years in a row. That's how big the job is, it simply can't be done in one go
This squad needs to be gutted
This squad needs to be gutted
I agree short term thinking is the problem at the club. However this summer I feel is different. I’ve never been one of the ‘massive overhaul’ brigade. You are right every summer fans clamour for this. This summer I am going to be one of those fans. I’ve lost faith in this squad. It now needs a clear out and fresh faces.
We need 6 this window as players are leaving/out of contract and improvement on certain positions.
CB
RB
2 x CM (Now Herrera is leaving)
RW
CF
Summer 2020
4 new players as some contracts are up. By that time your hoping youth boys have had a good bit of experience from the season that they are settled we will need to replace the out of contract lads.
CB
RB
2 x CM (Now Herrera is leaving)
RW
CF
Summer 2020
4 new players as some contracts are up. By that time your hoping youth boys have had a good bit of experience from the season that they are settled we will need to replace the out of contract lads.
I haven't watched the video but I'd argue 3-4 in this summer is hardly any different to the summers under LVG or Mourinho
Why cant we in theory let 8+ go in the summer and bring 8 in? (Maybe the video answers this) but to me letting Bailly, Darmian, Rojo, Herrera, Mata, Sanchez, Lukaku, Martial and Pogba go and bringing in replacements shouldn't be complicated to do (especially if some of the replacements are call ups from the under 23's/players who have been on loan)
Would I prefer a slow approach. Well I don't think we will have much choice to be honest. I would prefer it if I knew we would fix the serious problems. I think it might however be a slow approach more to incompetence,(if the method of dealing with transfer doesn't change) than planning.
Massive overhaul. I can't bear to look at most of our players.
A massive overhaul just wouldn’t work. There’d be the pressure to perform that players like Pogba, Sanchez, Martial are experiencing but for most of our squad, and no doubt they’d be on big money too. Fill the gaps with the right players and let the others prove themselves / bring through youth.
My ideal window would be 1 Van Dijk type signing, 1 Matic upgrade, a well rounded right back, a world class right winger that works hard, and ideally a striker to replace Lukaku. Maybe one more centre mid and a player like James who probably wouldn’t start straight away.
My ideal window would be 1 Van Dijk type signing, 1 Matic upgrade, a well rounded right back, a world class right winger that works hard, and ideally a striker to replace Lukaku. Maybe one more centre mid and a player like James who probably wouldn’t start straight away.
So just seven then?
Big overhaul , theres too much rubbish been here too long already, get rid of as many of them as possible, as quickly as possible.
Massive overhaul. Others won't stop spending and improving like we did back in 2009. We will be mediocre forever if he don't have a ruthless approach.
I think its down to ole now to show he can be ruthless. He’s not the players friends, it’s him or them ultimately.
If he doesn’t get this right .. he loses is job sooner or later.. it’s time to take control now and do whatever needs to be done. Look at fergie, always so ruthless when it came to getting rid of players and replacing them. We cannot slip any further down the pecking order, so yes it needs to be fairly drastic or nothing is going to change. Rinse and repeat is all that will happen!! Over to ole to show his metal!!
If he doesn’t get this right .. he loses is job sooner or later.. it’s time to take control now and do whatever needs to be done. Look at fergie, always so ruthless when it came to getting rid of players and replacing them. We cannot slip any further down the pecking order, so yes it needs to be fairly drastic or nothing is going to change. Rinse and repeat is all that will happen!! Over to ole to show his metal!!
I want the lot gone, you could throw a team of random mid table cloggers together who can do what this lot do for about a quarter of the wages.
We can build from that then.
We can build from that then.
More outs than ins.
Darmian
Sanchez
Valencia
Herrera
Mata
Rojo
The above, at a minimum should all be listed under the "outs" column.
Lukaku and de Gea will be contextual. Both can also leave though.
Garner, Gomes, Greenwood and Chong can all come up. Tuanzebe and Henderson can also be a part of the first team set up next year.
Beyond that, I don't know too much in terms of players I would spend money on. Happy with the Swansea winger as a starting point however.
Darmian
Sanchez
Valencia
Herrera
Mata
Rojo
The above, at a minimum should all be listed under the "outs" column.
Lukaku and de Gea will be contextual. Both can also leave though.
Garner, Gomes, Greenwood and Chong can all come up. Tuanzebe and Henderson can also be a part of the first team set up next year.
Beyond that, I don't know too much in terms of players I would spend money on. Happy with the Swansea winger as a starting point however.
Theres no reason that chucking 8 players who are either dog shit or play like dog shit because they want to leave and replacing them with average players who turn up every week would be worse than just doing one or two at a time.
The problem with our squad is the overall quality, is garbage, we have some truly terrible players, and they need kicking out to just to simply improve the overall quality of the team.
Bringing in 2 or 3 decent players into a team of shit houses like ours is going to have no effect what so ever, there needs to a massive cull.
Massive overhaul. All the deadwood needs clearing out in one go.
5 really. How’s that a complete overhaul? Most clubs do around that each summer unless they feel they don’t need to or they’re broke. 7 would be absolutely ideal but it’s not a complete overhaul.
A complete overhaul to me is what Fulham did last summer (failed catastrophically).
We could do with a complete overhaul though. I really don't like many of them.
Of course it's not an achievement. How could anyone seriously claim that? We got 6th for heaven's sake. Tottenham lost to the likes of Bournemouth and West Ham as well. Some rosy results can't hide the fact that we are absolute shambels.
We are starting the likes of Lingard and Young, players that wouldn't be fit to play in top team's reserves. And what has Austria to do with that? Honestly, the guys let in on this forum the last couple of years. Shocking stuff.
Minimum of 6 incoming players as far as I'm concerned.
Like others have said, we currently look like a disjointed team so it's not as if a massive overhaul will upset the balance.
It's time to pull it apart from the higher management chain down, all the way through to the players.
Like others have said, we currently look like a disjointed team so it's not as if a massive overhaul will upset the balance.
It's time to pull it apart from the higher management chain down, all the way through to the players.
Only 3 first team players left at the end of the 94/95 season.
Hughes looked set to leave in the previous January, as United signed Andy Cole, however Cantona subsequently got his ban. He was also early thirties. Both Ince and Kanchelskis had fallen out with SAF. It wasn’t a big overhaul.
The ‘class of 92’ were already well integrated in the first team squad, Giggs already had 2 PL winner medals, Scholes played 17 games in the 94/95 season, Nicky Butt made 35 first team appearances in the same season. Beckham has been around the squad since 92. People make out as if they all debuted in the first game of the 95/96 season.
Promote youth of course, but they need to be slowly integrated, plus it’s far easier to bring through youth into a winning side, full of leaders and big characters which were a hallmark of those SAF teams but those you named aren’t ready to be playing week in and week out, they’re probably all 2-4 years away from being regulars if they fulfil their early potential.
