Would you be okay with state or state-backed ownership?

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Our sweetest triumph for me- except for the treble in 1999- was when we beat Chelsea in 06-07 and i think we had a net spend of 5 million or something that season. You can beat these plastic clubs with good planning and the right investment and it does mean more when it happens that way (Remember that Mourinho song in 2007 and the atmosphere around the club, it was fecking electric).

Liverpool did it recently with the league win and the champions league win and were just two games away from a quadruple last season. It can be done without oil money and human rights abuses...you have to have a bloody good set up and manager though, and not be linked with the likes of Jordan Pickford ;)
 
Nickelodeon said:
Post the PSG owner’s links and statements, there’s no deniability of Jassim’s bid being a state-backed one. Without doing whataboutery with Ratcliffe or Glazers, are most of you okay with a) Having our name popped up every time Qatar does something shady and b) Literally being in the same boat with City and Newcastle.

We basically lose any ground on being able to question City, Chelsea or Newcastle on being oil, artificial or plastic clubs. Just because we want an owner who will spend like Fifa’s Career Mode.

It’s blowing my mind how fans are okay with this.
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Spot on.
Norman Brownbutter said:
No one is pretending that. For example, Adidas are a bunch of cnuts as well who play the "we love our LGBT friends" during pride month while taking Qatar money during the World Cup. There are no good guys in footballing conversation, only multiple levels of cnuts.

What I find disgusting is how quick people are to throw human rights under the bus, not because "everyone does it" but because they want to win a fecking trophy. Let that sink in, a fecking piece of tin is worth more to them than someone else getting the opportunity to live a life free from persecution. You want to be another city? Good for you, be another empty, soulless club where the wins mean nothing and the praise is bought and paid for on BT and talk sport. I'd rather we went down to be a mid table club than became another city. But thats just me. Im more than happy to take a fecking walk should we get taken over by the state. And stand outside, look at all the plastic fans who only care about winning at any cost and quietly shake my head. For years we have pointed at City and laughed, and now look how many are lining up to take the state owned cock just to be like them. fecking hypocrites.
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Also spot on.

If the only way for football clubs to succeed is to hope a nation state buys them, what's the point? Maybe its time for the Super League now after all. Let 16 state owned clubs battle it out spending billions and everyone else will just carry on.

FC United of Manchester/City of Liverpool and a few others might need to start building bigger grounds though.
 
Enigma_87 said:
TBH, the easiest on the eye are the tech giants. Not that they are clean by any means, but compared to others they don't come with the other baggage.

They have the funds and means to take control, but there seems to be no interest shown so far (if we don't consider Musk which was bullshit) and their expertise in running football club seems to be questionable at best too.


Which is my point. There isn't a single billionaire that is clean and able to buy United. Let's not pretend that it's only the East countries that abuse human rights.
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Except that using a smartphone and wearing clothes are things that you actually need to get by with how the world is designed today, so its outside most people's control. Therefore, comparing people using phones designed in China and wearing clothes (necessities) to not being fine with United being owned by slimy billionaires (United winning trophies is neither a necessity one needs to get by in life, no matter how attached you are to the club) is preposterous. Of course people will exercise the moral judgments in situations that are more within their control.
 
I am resolutely opposed to Qatari ownership as the country is an autocratic regime, but am also opposed to state ownership from a liberal country.

We need to face up to it.

The Glazers will this week announce Qatar's state bid as their preference, and we will become that state's property. We will exist to give them good PR for their autocratic regime and, as they'll own us outright, we will never be free of them.

I, for one, will do the right thing and sever all ties with the club. I will not be allowing my children to follow the franchise (this is what we will become), either.
 
Seveneric said:
Except that using a smartphone and wearing clothes are things that you actually need to get by with how the world is designed today, so its outside most people's control. Therefore, comparing people using phones designed in China and wearing clothes (necessities) to not being fine with United being owned by slimy billionaires (United winning trophies is neither a necessity one needs to get by in life, no matter how attached you are to the club) is preposterous. Of course people will exercise the moral judgments in situations that are more within their control.
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I’m sure you can find plenty of excuses and pin it to religion like people have been doing it for thousands of years.

whoever takes control of United will be a slimy billionaire. SJR, included. So unless someone comes with clean dossier for me this is not a stick to beat the Qataris with.

from my knowledge Glazers are better in that aspect than either of the bidders, do you want them to continue own United?
 
I'm totally against any state backed bid.
We can't let the club turn out like City, PSG or Newcastle.
 
GazTheLegend said:
This is a hill I will absolutely die on if you want to go that way, all you need to do is look up the life and death of Boris Berezovsky if you feel like dirtying yourself with the vagaries of Russian Realpolitik. I do not think such people are fit and proper for running football clubs, and incidents such as these are commonplace with state figures and entities. Although I understand why you'd not wish to speak against them, after all we'd not want to be cut into pieces in a hotel, then sent down limb by limb to a waiting car like people associated with the owners of some football clubs have done.
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I was thinking of the forum and the probable consequences on the site.
 
I'm against it but I'd find it incredibly difficult to stop supporting us after 40+years I have to be honest.
 
I’m against it, and would rather all clubs be banned from state ownership and better protected by the UK Government. I completely understand people that do want them, however. City are able to spend billions and win everything whilst broadcasters are largely positive about them and look the other way in regards to ownership. They even buy into their low ‘net spend’ despite the billions spent buying the original players and giving double contracts. I can understand wanting the same success for us.
 
Dan_F said:
Hate to break it to you but PSG have never won a treble in a far easier league. Qatar coming in doesn’t guarantee anything.
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PSG were nobody and became the biggest team in the Ligue 1. They have become utterly dominant in the French championship and have reached a CL final. Qatar coming does not guarantee anything, but its a much safer bet than an owner who did nothing with a team in that very far easier league.
 
Water Melon said:
PSG were nobody and became the biggest team in the Ligue 1. They have become utterly dominant in the French championship and have reached a CL final. Qatar coming does not guarantee anything, but its a much safer bet than an owner who did nothing with a team in that very far easier league.
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PSG had been mis managed for years but regularly attracted big players. Imagine Arsenal being the only team in London, they’d be fecking massive.

I can’t be bothered to continually get into this argument, but Qatar didn’t have to deal with FFP. Without cheating, Ineos cannot do what Qatar did with PSG and pump in a billion for transfers.
 
Norman Brownbutter said:
No one is pretending that. For example, Adidas are a bunch of cnuts as well who play the "we love our LGBT friends" during pride month while taking Qatar money during the World Cup. There are no good guys in footballing conversation, only multiple levels of cnuts.

What I find disgusting is how quick people are to throw human rights under the bus, not because "everyone does it" but because they want to win a fecking trophy. Let that sink in, a fecking piece of tin is worth more to them than someone else getting the opportunity to live a life free from persecution. You want to be another city? Good for you, be another empty, soulless club where the wins mean nothing and the praise is bought and paid for on BT and talk sport. I'd rather we went down to be a mid table club than became another city. But thats just me. Im more than happy to take a fecking walk should we get taken over by the state. And stand outside, look at all the plastic fans who only care about winning at any cost and quietly shake my head. For years we have pointed at City and laughed, and now look how many are lining up to take the state owned cock just to be like them. fecking hypocrites.
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Nicely worded, reflects my feelings perfectly. If we drop down the table while other teams are bought by ME countries I will happily keep supporting MU. When we win something it will actually bring true joy, unlike those plastic fecks cheering yesterday.
 
Enigma_87 said:
from my knowledge Glazers are better in that aspect than either of the bidders, do you want them to continue own United?
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I personally would - they’re not accused of 6500 deaths of migrant workers, just accused of being greedy and shit.

It would mean i could support the club albeit having a bad owner (but lets also be real we’ve been doing quite OK under them this year (finally))
 
Irwin99 said:
Our sweetest triumph for me- except for the treble in 1999- was when we beat Chelsea in 06-07 and i think we had a net spend of 5 million or something that season. You can beat these plastic clubs with good planning and the right investment and it does mean more when it happens that way (Remember that Mourinho song in 2007 and the atmosphere around the club, it was fecking electric).

Liverpool did it recently with the league win and the champions league win and were just two games away from a quadruple last season. It can be done without oil money and human rights abuses...you have to have a bloody good set up and manager though, and not be linked with the likes of Jordan Pickford ;)
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We were buzzing and the Hollow, hollow, hollow song was fantastic. I also dont understand some/many people in manchester seemingly willing to say goodbye to those roots and go for a full sale with Qatar. Makes no sense to me.
 
MarylandMUFan said:
For those that will stop their support for United, what will you do? I have been supporting them since 1984 and just don't know how to stop supporting them while still enjoying English football. It's so freaking sad to me.
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Aaahhh... there is always netball. Dont you worry about them! But just in case, why dont we compile a list of those who want out so that we can help them in their time of need?

Who have you got so far?
 
Nope because the game is gone. At this point what fecking difference would us being taken over by Qatar and cheating our way to titles make. Nobody would give us extra praise if we did it “the right way”. And nobody would care if we cheated (see our cnut neighbours)

the biggest cheats in the modem game won a treble and all season long every single pundit on every single broadcast salivated them, spoke about how they did things the right way. Our own fecking former captain talks about how city built themselves up and regenerated Manchester. barely a fecking sniffle about the fact they’d cheated for years. If Man City were a cock they’d have been blown about 100,000 times this season. Yet their insufferable lunatic of a manager will still come out crying about how nobody gives them any credit.

Nobody has any morales in football, at all. Refs openly cheat week in week out and the same fecking refs turn up week in week out.
Anthony Taylor is the most corrupt bastard of a ref you’ll ever see yet this fecker gets the biggest games on the European and world stage, as in what the actual feck. I saw this guy managing a champions league semi final and I could not believe my eyes.

You’ve got clubs in London who can’t win a trophy to save their lives charging their fans fortunes for season tickets and then turning around and refusing to pay emergency services properly to work at their games and keep those same fans safe.

You’ve got sky, bt and Amazon bending over every football fan in the country and then crying to law enforcement that some people streamed their games despite raking in record subscribers.

then you’ve got uefa and fifa who within ten years time will have presumably expanded the cl and wc to 600 teams and they’d probably be handing out 60,000 pound fines to some random club from Italy or Spain for their fans all turning up to a game dressed as nazis.
You’ve got teams spending 120 million on a guy who’s played 20 career games and 80 million on a TikTok player.
It also doesn’t help that half the players who play for man United are unlikeable fecking idiots either.

Through this whole season the only genuine great story that actually made me go “that’s football” was Luton getting promoted. Honestly I don’t care if we get taken over and cheat our way to success.
 
Ludens the Red said:
Nope because the game is gone. At this point what fecking difference would us being taken over by Qatar and cheating our way to titles make. Nobody would give us extra praise if we did it “the right way”. And nobody would care if we cheated (see our cnut neighbours)

the biggest cheats in the modem game won a treble and all season long every single pundit on every single broadcast salivated them, spoke about how they did things the right way. Our own fecking former captain talks about how city built themselves up and regenerated Manchester. barely a fecking sniffle about the fact they’d cheated for years. If Man City were a cock they’d have been blown about 100,000 times this season. Yet their insufferable lunatic of a manager will still come out crying about how nobody gives them any credit.

Nobody has any morales in football, at all. Refs openly cheat week in week out and the same fecking refs turn up week in week out.
Anthony Taylor is the most corrupt bastard of a ref you’ll ever see yet this fecker gets the biggest games on the European and world stage, as in what the actual feck. I saw this guy managing a champions league semi final and I could not believe my eyes.

You’ve got clubs in London who can’t win a trophy to save their lives charging their fans fortunes for season tickets and then turning around and refusing to pay emergency services properly to work at their games and keep those same fans safe.

You’ve got sky, bt and Amazon bending over every football fan in the country and then crying to law enforcement that some people streamed their games despite raking in record subscribers.

then you’ve got uefa and fifa who within ten years time will have presumably expanded the cl and wc to 600 teams and they’d probably be handing out 60,000 pound fines to some random club from Italy or Spain for their fans all turning up to a game dressed as nazis.
You’ve got teams spending 120 million on a guy who’s played 20 career games and 80 million on a TikTok player.
It also doesn’t help that half the players who play for man United are unlikeable fecking idiots either.

Through this whole season the only genuine great story that actually made me go “that’s football” was Luton getting promoted. Honestly I don’t care if we get taken over and cheat our way to success.
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The 'game' was 'gone' the moment the PL was established. Players getting paid initially 10k/week then 40k/week then 100k/week. 300k/week. Or a 20y.o on 200k/week ala Saka.

The 'game' has been out of touch or out of sync with society in general for a couple of decades now. So how can something that has been so out of touch with society be used as some gauge of morality --- when nurses and doctors are struggling to get paid what they are actually worth to society?

It's just personal projection and stop pretending it's some last bastion of morality.
 
sglowrider said:
The 'game' was 'gone' the moment the PL was established. Players getting paid initially 10k/week then 40k/week then 100k/week. 300k/week. Or a 20y.o on 200k/week ala Saka.

The 'game' has been out of touch or out of sync with society in general for a couple of decades now. So how can something that has been so out of touch with society be used as some gauge of morality --- when nurses and doctors are struggling to get paid what they are actually worth to society?

It's just personal projection and stop pretending it's some last bastion of morality.
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There is a difference between corporate and individual greed, which has been going on since the beginning of sports and being owned by a state that is morally reprehensible.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Like he said, nothing is black and white, but one thing can be significantly worse than another. Jim Ratcliffe is probably not squeaky clean, and Ineos has no doubt had questionable business practices in the past, but he is for damn sure better than the alternative.

Qatar killed literally thousands of migrant workers through appalling conditions after having taking their passports so they couldn't leave. Qatar quite obviously bribed their way to get their little pet World Cup project. Qatar punishes homosexuality with prison for up to three years. Qatar punishes infidelity from women with prison sentences as well.

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want the club associated with that country.
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Millions of overseas “fans” and lots of plastic ones down here where I am will proudly wear a Qatar emblazoned United shirt
 
You have to say looking at the reactions of United fans online, sportwashing sure does work. We should set up a Whataboutery Champions League, we'd be in with chance of winning something again.
 
sglowrider said:
The 'game' was 'gone' the moment the PL was established. Players getting paid initially 10k/week then 40k/week then 100k/week. 300k/week. Or a 20y.o on 200k/week ala Saka.

The 'game' has been out of touch or out of sync with society in general for a couple of decades now. So how can something that has been so out of touch with society be used as some gauge of morality --- when nurses and doctors are struggling to get paid what they are actually worth to society?

It's just personal projection and stop pretending it's some last bastion of morality.
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I have never understood this argument for you it's a problem that players on whom the whole spectacle of football is dependent get their share of the spoils so to speak and in the same argument you try to create false equivalency by Bringing plight of nurses and doctors . You do realise there must be plenty of footballers who struggle to make decent living outside of of top leagues .
 
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sglowrider said:
The 'game' was 'gone' the moment the PL was established. Players getting paid initially 10k/week then 40k/week then 100k/week. 300k/week. Or a 20y.o on 200k/week ala Saka.

The 'game' has been out of touch or out of sync with society in general for a couple of decades now. So how can something that has been so out of touch with society be used as some gauge of morality --- when nurses and doctors are struggling to get paid what they are actually worth to society?

It's just personal projection and stop pretending it's some last bastion of morality.
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I wonder what % of football players manage to win over 100k per week. Also what % of doctors.
I'm sure the top 1% of doctors and nurses who work at the biggest clinics around the World don't struggle.
We also have to bare in mind that no matter how good a doctor is, there isn't any audience interested in spectating his work. NBA players are better paid than footballers in Europe, so it's just about what people are interested in.
 
gajender said:
I have never understood this argument for you it's a problem that players on whom the whole spectacle of football is dependent get their share of the spoils so to speak and in the same argument you try to create false equivalency by Bringing plight of nurses and doctors . You do realise there must be plenty of footballers who struggle to make decent living outside of of top leagues .
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Its called moral equivalence.
 
quadrant said:
You have to say looking at the reactions of United fans online, sportwashing sure does work. We should set up a Whataboutery Champions League, we'd be in with chance of winning something again.
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Of course it works which is why these states are so interested in buying football clubs.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
I wonder what % of football players manage to win over 100k per week. Also what % of doctors.
I'm sure the top 1% of doctors and nurses who work at the biggest clinics around the World don't struggle.
We also have to bare in mind that no matter how good a doctor is, there isn't any audience interested in spectating his work. NBA players are better paid than footballers in Europe, so it's just about what people are interested in.
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I agree ... its economics but doesn't mean that economics is morally correct. The bigger picture is that if people want to tag simplistic moral arguments into this whole takeover discussion then we can apply it to all sorts of areas. Its a pointless discussion really.

The discussion of morality isnt like some line item discussion where you generate binary answers. Its a more 360 discussion.
 
State ownership has killed the game. But hey, who gives a feck. It’s all good when we’re celebrating the City fairytale so what difference does United joining the club make.
 
No. If Qatar won the WC bid by (allegedly) corruption and devious tactics it would be naive to think they'd go about their business honestly at United and even the slightest doubt of that will tarnish any success we achieve under their ownership. Will I be able to push all that aside and still support United? Probably, but it won't feel like the same club I've supported for the past three decades. Being an oppressive regime's plaything for the sake of a shiny new stadium and some galactico signings is repulsive.
 
sglowrider said:
The 'game' was 'gone' the moment the PL was established. Players getting paid initially 10k/week then 40k/week then 100k/week. 300k/week. Or a 20y.o on 200k/week ala Saka.

The 'game' has been out of touch or out of sync with society in general for a couple of decades now. So how can something that has been so out of touch with society be used as some gauge of morality --- when nurses and doctors are struggling to get paid what they are actually worth to society?

It's just personal projection and stop pretending it's some last bastion of morality.
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As a few people have already said in response. Neither here nor there really talking about wages and then bringing in doctors and nurses . Footballer wages are not something I take issue with anyway. You get people on daft wages in the public and private sector too. Ultimately like others have said you’re talking a small amount of footballers actually earning within those remits.
I’m not pretending anything, but feel free to keep pretending football now is as it was when the PL began. The PL being formed didn’t cause this. The PL was formed 30 years ago. Stop trying to paint a false narrative. It’s quite clear over the last few years things have taken a significant nose dive in so many areas of the game and it’s kinda crazy to pretend otherwise.

I’ll give a few examples, five years ago I would have been able to watch the majority of Premier League, La Liga, serie a, ligue 1 and Bundesliga matches by subscribing to two platforms. In order to do that now I’d need about ten. That’s not happened over 30 years it’s happened over less than five.
In the last five years we’ve seen expansion to the club World Cup, the champions league (pending) the World Cup, an additional nations league and an additional European competition. Again nothing like this has happened over such a short period dating back thirty years.
 
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Irwin99 said:
Our sweetest triumph for me- except for the treble in 1999- was when we beat Chelsea in 06-07 and i think we had a net spend of 5 million or something that season. You can beat these plastic clubs with good planning and the right investment and it does mean more when it happens that way (Remember that Mourinho song in 2007 and the atmosphere around the club, it was fecking electric).

Liverpool did it recently with the league win and the champions league win and were just two games away from a quadruple last season. It can be done without oil money and human rights abuses...you have to have a bloody good set up and manager though, and not be linked with the likes of Jordan Pickford ;)
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Liverpool built a great team. Almost a once in a lifetime team. Everything came together. They managed to get a top manager and nearly every player bought was bang on. But at the end of the day won the league once in last few years. In fact over the last ten years only Leicester did it once. Liverpool once and then the other team was Chelsea - another team funded by a corrupt barbaric country.

So to compete with City you would have to do even better than the scousers did. But its even worse because now there is Newcastle. And will it stop there? How many other teams will Saudi/ Quatar take over? If its not United it will be someone else.

The idea that United can win without Oil money is far fetched. Maybe we could get it once. But over the next 10 years it will be City/City/Newcastle/City/Newcastle/ Other Saudi team etc.

So the question is. Join the corruption and have oil money and win stuff or fall away and be a fallen giant like AC Milan
 
UpWithRivers said:
Liverpool built a great team. Almost a once in a lifetime team. Everything came together. They managed to get a top manager and nearly every player bought was bang on. But at the end of the day won the league once in last few years. In fact over the last ten years only Leicester did it once. Liverpool once and then the other team was Chelsea - another team funded by a corrupt barbaric country.

So to compete with City you would have to do even better than the scousers did. But its even worse because now there is Newcastle. And will it stop there? How many other teams will Saudi/ Quatar take over? If its not United it will be someone else.

The idea that United can win without Oil money is far fetched. Maybe we could get it once. But over the next 10 years it will be City/City/Newcastle/City/Newcastle/ Other Saudi team etc.

So the question is. Join the corruption and have oil money and win stuff or fall away and be a fallen giant like AC Milan
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Oh no, does that mean we’ll only reach the champions league semi. They also won the league a year ago :lol:

Absolute rubbish to suggest we can’t compete without oil money. There’s one team with oil money that everyone struggles to compete with and that’s Pep’s team. They will not continue this dominance without him.
 
MarylandMUFan said:
For those that will stop their support for United, what will you do? I have been supporting them since 1984 and just don't know how to stop supporting them while still enjoying English football. It's so freaking sad to me.
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To be honest, I'm not sure. I'm absolutely dreading, dreading the day we become the plaything of a foreign states investment arm. I'll have so many conflicting emotions abot the soul and direction of the club.

I cannot cold turkey stop supporting United since it's such a big part of my life, but I will definitely have much less investment/support of it. My yearly pilgrimage to Old Trafford cancelled probably. And I'll be watching a lot more local, lower league football. Really been enjoying just going to a local small club and seeing a bunch of small teams with half timers giving it their all.
Probably watch more rugby of both codes too.
 
Dan_F said:
Oh no, does that mean we’ll only reach the champions league semi. They also won the league a year ago :lol:

Absolute rubbish to suggest we can’t compete without oil money. There’s one team with oil money that everyone struggles to compete with and that’s Pep’s team. They will not continue this dominance without him.
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what does this mean?
 
Dan_F said:
Oh no, does that mean we’ll only reach the champions league semi. They also won the league a year ago :lol:

Absolute rubbish to suggest we can’t compete without oil money. There’s one team with oil money that everyone struggles to compete with and that’s Pep’s team. They will not continue this dominance without him.
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We can compete with oil money, agreed. If well run, Newcastle wouldn't get ahead of us.

We cannot compete with City artificially inflating commercial revenue through fabricated sponsorship payments; paying more than double their declared salaries through complex offshore tax evasions in the UAE for fabricated consultancy work; obstructing UEFA and PL investigations for over 5 years into these activities.

On a level playing field, we could compete. However, City with oil money plus financial doping, money laundering and corruption, plus a top five manager in football. Unlikely to match them unless we also accept our club being used as a sports washing PR vehicle for atrocities, such as 80,000 dead Yemeni children.
 
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UpWithRivers said:
what does this mean?
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You used AC Milan as an example, and they reached a champions league semi and won the league a year ago.

We’re not some poor little club, we’re the biggest club in the richest league in the world. No oil money is not the reason we’ve been playing Europa league football every other season.
 
Even aside from moral concerns, people seem to ignore that Qatar have done a terrible job with PSG considering their resources. They’ve lost a few Ligue 1s, despite having an obscene advantage financially, unlike any other ‘top’ league in Europe where the least paid senior player is still paid more than Marseille’s best paid player.

They’ve had some of the best players in the world and have made one CL final in over 10 years, which included a very easy draw and one leg matches through Covid. Their average CL performance has to be to lose to the first decent team they play, usually in meek circumstances.
 
Ludens the Red said:
As a few people have already said in response. Neither here nor there really talking about wages and then bringing in doctors and nurses . Footballer wages are not something I take issue with anyway. You get people on daft wages in the public and private sector too. Ultimately like others have said you’re talking a small amount of footballers actually earning within those remits.
I’m not pretending anything, but feel free to keep pretending football now is as it was when the PL began. The PL being formed didn’t cause this. The PL was formed 30 years ago. Stop trying to paint a false narrative. It’s quite clear over the last few years things have taken a significant nose dive in so many areas of the game and it’s kinda crazy to pretend otherwise.

I’ll give a few examples, five years ago I would have been able to watch the majority of Premier League, La Liga, serie a, ligue 1 and Bundesliga matches by subscribing to two platforms. In order to do that now I’d need about ten. That’s not happened over 30 years it’s happened over less than five.
In the last five years we’ve seen expansion to the club World Cup, the champions league (pending) the World Cup, an additional nations league and an additional European competition. Again nothing like this has happened over such a short period dating back thirty years.
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Mate... I was supporting United pre-PL. (My fav player was McQueen and Jordon.)

Trust me when you have history on your side you can see the entire cycle and not just some subscription price increase.
 
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