Would you be happy with Morata, Fabinho, Lindelof and Perisic?

Would you be happy with Morata, Fabinho, Lindelof and Perisic?


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I still think we'd be sorely lacking a "special player" in attack and therefore probably finish a similar league position

Chelsea - Hazard
City - Jesus / Aguero / probably Dembele soon
Spurs - Kane / Eriksen / Alli
Liverpool - Coutinho (Mane?)
Arsenal - Sanchez

We don't have an attacker of this quality imo.
 
Why don't you give us your estimate of the goals we'll score after these signings? Easy to question others' estimates..

I don't think anyone is in a position to extrapolate goals when 2 players of our front 3 are likely to be new signings. Given the volatile form of Martial and Mkhitaryan, it makes it even harder. Pointless game, guessing who scores how many. It's only with the Zlatans, Lukakus or Costas etc where u can say yes surely 20 goals from this guy, regardless of which team he's in.
 
I honestly can't believe we aren't making a move for Diego Costa. Yes - he and Mou didn't have the best of times last season, but we are in desperate need of a class striker.

-He's won the league 3 times out of the last 4 seasons.
-Prime age.
-Knows the PL and can dominate the PL.
-Possibility of a swap deal in the future with Griez.
-Unwanted by current club (therefore his price will be cheaper).

We should be giving Chelsea £30m for this dude.

Matic I'm not a fan of. Perisic is a little underwhelming. Morata is a bit of a wildcard.

I think Lindelof will be great - Mou knows how to pick a defence.
 
Get rid of Perisic and add Matic (looking likely) and I'd say yes. We've added some good talent and depth to our team and if the rest of the players step up (like they didn't last season), I can easily see us challenging for the title.
 
Yes we lack consistent attacking threats but it's hyperbolic to claim we are worse than 6 other teams. If we hadn't sacrificed our later games we would have finished above Arsenal and potentially Liverpool.

This year will be true reflection with all of the top 6 playing in Europe. The lack of extra games really helped Chelsea and to a lesser extent Liverpool (even though they still nearly threw it away).

You'd expect our younger players to improve too so we can expect a better output from Martial and Rashford so that should alleviate a lot of our problems.

I also feel last season we were over reliant on Zlatan and the team became focused on playing through him. Without a guaranteed scorer you'd hope it'd encourage the other attackers to step up to the plate.



It hides nothing. Jose and the players all admitted they switched their focus as we progressed. They all stated a trophy is better than just getting top 4. It was clear we sacrificed league form from about April.

The sixth position from November to March was an anomaly. No one was dropping points. When the pressure started to build you saw Liverpool etc start dropping points. We didn't capitalise because we had shifted focus.

We will finish in the top 4 this season, as we should have this season. I have no concerns over Liverpool, the extra games will stretch them massively. Arsenal are has beens and will struggle while Wenger remains in charge. Spurs are good but they've struggled playing at Wembley so remains to be seen if they will be as consistent as the last couple of seasons. Chelsea and City are both obviously good, but I still have doubts over Pep and his style in the PL. He seems too stubborn to adapt and they struggled at times last season. I think City's transfer window is much more important than ours. Pep need a certain type of player to get his system to work, whereas I feel Jose is better at adapting to what he has at his disposal.
I think that's delusional and ignores the obvious issues we were struggling with throughout the season. No one was dropping points? Between November and March - when we were stubbornly set in sixth - Arsenal lost SIX league games. Liverpool lost four and drew four. Manchester City lost four league games during that period.

From March onwards, when it became clear that the Europa League would be our main target, our problems still didn't change. We kept dropping points at home against shite teams - Bournemouth, Swansea, West Brom - and we were toothless away from home against our rivals (City, Spurs, Arsenal).

Sixth very accurately reflects our performances throughout the season. The whole "we focused on the EL" argument would hold more water if we had been fantastic in the Europa League while struggling in the Premier League. But that wasn't the case: we scraped by in unconvincing fashion against mediocre sides who would have been mid-table at best in the Premier League (consider that against Celta Vigo and Anderlecht over 90 minutes we had three draws out of four). We just weren't very good last season and have to improve significantly to be better than sixth next season.
 
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yeah I agree with the main thrust of @b82REZ's point, that we should be looking for players we already have to improve, and that they can improve. But I do not agree with the idea that it is hyperbole to say we were the 6th best team in England. We were really disappointing last season and while I still have faith in a lot of the players at the club there is no point in rewriting history.
 
That's simply not true though is it? Perisic aside (as I've never seen him play so can't comment) are all improvements on current players in our squad.

The only argument could be Ibra is better than Morata, but Morata has age on his side and his goal scoring record is impressive.

Also let's be honest, we are much better than 6th and the table wasn't a true reflection of the teams quality. The last month or two of the season we prioritised the Europa League and sacrificed our league form for it.

Lindelof is, theoretically, an improvement over Rojo, but let's not forget that Rojo was class last season and Lindelof is new to the PL. Matic is potentially equal to Fellaini or Carrick after his recent seasons. he doesn't seem to tackle well anymore and that was a pretty big part of his game. Perisic I actually like, he's direct, fast and powerful and knows how to actually beat a man and aim a cross rather than put his head down and hope for the best (Lingard I'm looking at you). Morata is also a very good, potentially top class player but will be new to the league and won't score at the level of Zlatan.

We'll essentially be placing our hopes on the rest of our team stepping up to (a) replace Zlatan's goals tally, and (b) improve on that because our goals tally, even with Zlatan, was poor. if we assume that Morata won't adequately replace Zlatan's goal scoring then we're putting a LOT of stock in Perisic scoring from the left and the rest of our forwards suddenly remembering how to shoot. Our forward line will be no better than it was this past season when we couldn't score much of the time. Of the teams above us, who has a worse attack than us?

Midfield with matic added won't be drastically improved, if at all, unless he remembers how to tackle and play like he used to. If he can do that then yeah, he'd be handy for letting Pogba/herrera roam forward more but it's a big if. Defence will be marginally better at best with Valencia a year older and no improvement at LB.

I'd say that the teams who finished above us last season will remain better than us this season as most of them are looking to improve while we're struggling just to replace Zlatan.
 
Bit of a meh transfer window if its only those four really.

Morata - Good player but unproven in the Premier League. I have high hopes for him though.
Lindelof - He's young. A little bit of an extra since we have quite a few players who can play in central defence.
Perisic - Mehhhhh I'd just rather not sign him altogether. Same goes with Nemanja Matic.
Fabinho - Don't really trust players who do well in Ligue 1. He also needs another season or two to prove he isn't a one-season wonder.
 
We'll strugle to create much with this team. The burden would fall heavily on Pogba again. If Martial, Mikhitaryan, and Shaw step up then maybe. We are hard to beat and that's what Mourinho wants but we'll be mostly winning with 1-0s rather than 3-1s.

Bernardo Silva would have been perfect.
 
Nope, July 1st, same as every year, yet every year we get hysterical muppets complaining in mid June about lack of signings. We have one deal done, which is one more than a lot of other clubs.

If we're still chasing the majority of our targets in August then people have reason to be a bit concerned, but mid June is kneejerky BS.
Source? All info I've seen says otherwise
 
We already dominate most teams we play but we lack the sort of talent who can break down stubborn defences. None of these players will do that; especially not the 'kick and rush' winger Perisic.

Until we get that type of player; and seriously limit the playtime of average players like Lingard, Fellaini and Rashford, then we will struggle. Perisic is not the answer.
 
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It's far from inspiring. My main worry is we're going to be heavily reliant on Pogba to create. No truly world class attacker in our line up. Some have the potential to be, but going off last season Morata or Perisic not sure they improve us.
 
A couple of weeks has passed, so I'll ask again..

Does anyone think we'll have another new player before July 8? (When we go on tour)

Nothing seems imminent does it. And I think a lot will be disappointed if Lindelof is our only new player on tour
 
A couple of weeks has passed, so I'll ask again..

Does anyone think we'll have another new player before July 8? (When we go on tour)

Nothing seems imminent does it. And I think a lot will be disappointed if Lindelof is our only new player on tour
Do inter have a deadline when under FFP they need to bring some cash in... perhaps perisic if this deadline is befor the 8th - if not I can see most of our deals being late August as clubs hold out for the maximum money
 
A couple of weeks has passed, so I'll ask again..

Does anyone think we'll have another new player before July 8? (When we go on tour)

Nothing seems imminent does it. And I think a lot will be disappointed if Lindelof is our only new player on tour
It's getting a bit tight now, probably not unfortunately. Unless there is some movement over the weekend
 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/when-...ansfer-window-for-the-premier-league-6656610/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bi...ransfer-window-opens-closes-2017-12538208.amp

Appears the June date is for Scotland but they can't officially join until the 1st July when the window opens proper

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da.../summer-transfer-window-2017-key-10702102.amp

The transfer window has always opened on July 1st and closes on 31st August.
 
At the moment even signing those four looks unlikely. I'm not sure how a club as wealthy as us, and with a world class manager and CL football can struggle so much to buy players.
 
A couple of weeks has passed, so I'll ask again..

Does anyone think we'll have another new player before July 8? (When we go on tour)

Nothing seems imminent does it. And I think a lot will be disappointed if Lindelof is our only new player on tour
I think we'll get Morata soon enough. Possibly Matic too. Doubt it for anyone else though.
 
At the moment even signing those four looks unlikely. I'm not sure how a club as wealthy as us, and with a world class manager and CL football can struggle so much to buy players.
This summer transfer season is due to Mourinho's underwhelming picks, I feel.
 
http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/when-...ansfer-window-for-the-premier-league-6656610/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bi...ransfer-window-opens-closes-2017-12538208.amp

Appears the June date is for Scotland but they can't officially join until the 1st July when the window opens proper

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da.../summer-transfer-window-2017-key-10702102.amp

The transfer window has always opened on July 1st and closes on 31st August.
https://www.fifatms.com/itms/worldwide-transfer-windows-calendar/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window

Although, in England, the transfer window formally opens on 9 June, transfers between clubs in the same league can take place as soon as the last competitive fixtures for the season have been played. However, many transfers will not be completed until 1 July because many players' contracts expire on 30 June. International transfers into the English leagues (including the Premier League) cannot be made until the window has opened on 9 June

This is all somewhat besides the point anyhow, even if the official date was July 1, the point is you can do business before then and just register on that date, so the original point stands.
 
This. I'm pretty concerned with how this summer has gone. In previous roles Mourinho seemed to be extremely clinical in the transfer market, he identifies the weaknesses, sets targets and gets them done soon. I vaguely remember transfers like Fabregas, Matic and Costa all seemingly happening within a week or two of the window opening, but I might be mis-remembering.

Fabregas was signed in early June but Costa was signed halfway through July and Matic was signed during January.

Other signings for Mourinho at Chelsea:
Schurrle - end of June
Falcao (loan) - early July
van Ginkel - early July
Begovic - early July
Luis - mid July
Baba Rahman - mid August
Pedro - mid August
Kenedy - mid August
Willian - late August
Remy - end of August
Hector - deadline day September
Djilobodji - deadline day September
Salah - end of January
Zouma - deadline day in January
Cuadrado - deadline day in February

Mourinho here:

Bailly - 8th June
Lindelof - 14th June (announcement on agreement made on 10th)
Zlatan - 1st July
Mkhitaryan - 6th July
Pogba - 9th August

Ultimately we've been more efficient in getting the signings Mourinho has wanted early. Most signings at Chelsea were done in August or January.

Most of the signings during his time at Chelsea were flops while so far here all his signings have been alright at worst.
 
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It wouldn't bother me in the least how these players perform.
Lindelof could turn out to be the worst player in the world but we have 7 others CBs. I couldn't care less.
Perisic could be Memphis Depay mk II, but I'll be happy to see Martial play LF. So again I wouldn't give a damn.
Fabinho can be a disaster, but I'm happier playing Herrera at #6, so again I'm really not fussed. I like Herrera at #6, and I just don't care for an upgrade.
As for Morata, yes I see the need for an alternative to Rashford, but if Morata screws up I think Rashford could carry the mantle anyway. He was awesome against Chelsea and after Zlatan was injured against Anderlecht, Celta Vigo in both legs etc.
So bring them all in and I'll be happy even if they turn out to be utterly hopeless. It's not my money.
I would like to see a RF brought in, someone like Pulisic to cause some distraction on the right and not have to rely on Valencia to be the sole creative outlet on that side.
I would've liked Naby Keita to provide some explosive actions from deep and not have to rely on Pogba to be the attacking midfield dynamo all on his own.
What I want isn't happening but I'm still happy.
 
A couple of weeks has passed, so I'll ask again..

Does anyone think we'll have another new player before July 8? (When we go on tour)

Nothing seems imminent does it. And I think a lot will be disappointed if Lindelof is our only new player on tour
Jose said he wants all our business done by July 8th. If this is not the case, Ed will be in for a talking to.

I asked the same thing a couple of weeks ago and was told to "relax" so I guess we are just worrying unecessarily.
 
Jose said he wants all our business done by July 8th. If this is not the case, Ed will be in for a talking to.

I asked the same thing a couple of weeks ago and was told to "relax" so I guess we are just worrying unecessarily.
It annoys me when people are like "oh it's June, ages left"

But if they look closer, United (including Ed and the board) fly USA in just over a week. Then by the time they're back the Super cup will be days away. Then the league.

If United don't sign anyone else in the next week and a half, I don't see anyone coming until late August
 
Yes i would be happy for a three reasons. Regardless of the names mentioned i think they tick some important criteria.

1- they are all young players exept for Perisic which gives them potential and gives us high selling value.
2- they all have international experience
3- they all played for winning sides at some point in their career.

So this is a good starting point for any transfer.
 
Yes i would be happy for a three reasons. Regardless of the names mentioned i think they tick some important criteria.

1- they are all young players exept for Perisic which gives them potential and gives us high selling value.
2- they all have international experience
3- they all played for winning sides at some point in their career.

So this is a good starting point for any transfer.
Why does selling value matter? We've never been a selling club. And it's not like we need the money anyway.

I don't get fans who are obsessed with finding "wonder kids" who we can sell on for 80m and then moan when we go for an experienced player who's actually won things like Matic. "Oh he's 28, we'll never be able to sell him"... who cares? He's brought in to win us trophies. United can afford to buy players to simply win them trophies.

Look at RVP, bought for 25m to win us the league and then sold off for 4m. I think everyone would agree that he was an excellent signing. We even paid Nani to play for someone else ffs. United don't care about money. We're fortunate.
 
It annoys me when people are like "oh it's June, ages left"

But if they look closer, United (including Ed and the board) fly USA in just over a week. Then by the time they're back the Super cup will be days away. Then the league.

If United don't sign anyone else in the next week and a half, I don't see anyone coming until late August
Business can be done from the USA too, you know? We live in the 21st century.

Of course, it's not ideal for pre-season training, integration into the team etc. But the deals themselves can progress without problems. In any case, the Perisic affair will be over one way or another by June 30 (Inter's FFP deadline) and Matic can be eased into the team even later on since we have Carrick, Fellaini and Pereira for now.

Morata is the one which worries me as well, because we cannot afford a slow start from him. Either we overpay now or risk dropping points early on. With our resources, I'd go with the former any day.
 
It wouldn't bother me in the least how these players perform.
Lindelof could turn out to be the worst player in the world but we have 7 others CBs. I couldn't care less.
Perisic could be Memphis Depay mk II, but I'll be happy to see Martial play LF. So again I wouldn't give a damn.
Fabinho can be a disaster, but I'm happier playing Herrera at #6, so again I'm really not fussed. I like Herrera at #6, and I just don't care for an upgrade.
As for Morata, yes I see the need for an alternative to Rashford, but if Morata screws up I think Rashford could carry the mantle anyway. He was awesome against Chelsea and after Zlatan was injured against Anderlecht, Celta Vigo in both legs etc.
So bring them all in and I'll be happy even if they turn out to be utterly hopeless. It's not my money
.
I would like to see a RF brought in, someone like Pulisic to cause some distraction on the right and not have to rely on Valencia to be the sole creative outlet on that side.
I would've liked Naby Keita to provide some explosive actions from deep and not have to rely on Pogba to be the attacking midfield dynamo all on his own.
What I want isn't happening but I'm still happy.
I think people vastly underestimate how much better of a shooter and finisher Morata is then Rashford and even Martial. He's much more composed, experienced and reliable in front of goal...

He may have world class teammates but you need to finish well if you are going to rack up the goals he did in those minutes, he can have some screw ups (like zlatan had some sighters almost every game..) but overall I expect him to be a success. If he isnt in terms of goals, either Martial, Mkhitaryan and Pogba have amazing goal scoring seasons, or we are screwed and need a new forward by January. I do expect we will be fine, but I highly doubt it will be Rashford that boasts the highest goals tally for us already, i think its a season or two too early for that.

I'm hoping Rashford and Martial become consistent scorers over anything, netting 15 goals individually at the least. It's actually a low standard, at least for Martial, so heres hoping I'm not disappointed.




Also people act like Mkhitaryan isn't elite on his day... He just hasnt hit form here. He was bundesliga player of the season/year (w/e it was) last season. That means he was considered better than the likes of Lewandowski, Robben, Vidal, Tiago, etc...
 
I think people vastly underestimate how much better of a shooter and finisher Morata is then Rashford and even Martial. He's much more composed, experienced and reliable in front of goal...

He may have world class teammates but you need to finish well if you are going to rack up the goals he did in those minutes, he can have some screw ups (like zlatan had some sighters almost every game..) but overall I expect him to be a success. If he isnt in terms of goals, either Martial, Mkhitaryan and Pogba have amazing goal scoring seasons, or we are screwed and need a new forward by January. I do expect we will be fine, but I highly doubt it will be Rashford that boasts the highest goals tally for us already, i think its a season or two too early for that.

I'm hoping Rashford and Martial become consistent scorers over anything, netting 15 goals individually at the least. It's actually a low standard, at least for Martial, so heres hoping I'm not disappointed.




Also people act like Mkhitaryan isn't elite on his day... He just hasnt hit form here. He was bundesliga player of the season/year (w/e it was) last season. That means he was considered better than the likes of Lewandowski, Robben, Vidal, Tiago, etc...
I think Morata should do alright with us and we need an alternative anyway.
I think Mkhitaryan gives best value in a central role where he has space to skip past defenders and burst into the open with his pace. I don't think he offers the same degree of threat playing near the touch line with less space. The problem is it's hard for Pogba & Herrera to wrestle control in midfield and squeeze the ball forward for Mkhitaryan to run onto with consistency. A third midfielder with tenacity and stamina is needed in which case Mkhitaryan must be deployed as a second striker. I don't have a problem with this provided we can find the right CM to form a dominant trio.
But I was just meaning to say we should expect natural improvement from within and I should extend that to include Mkhitaryan.
 
This June has been underwhelming to say the least. After all the talk of Jose saying that Ed needs to finish the transfer work before Jose comes back from vacation (i.e pre season), we have had very little activity.

Most of the stuff in June has been paper talk. Here are my thoughts on the window so far:

1. Ronaldo: I don't think the Club was interested in getting drawn into that drama and did well to distance itself. Its all gone quiet now, hasn't it. (+1)
2. Lindelof: Closed in quick time and announced for pre-season (+1)
3. Persic: If we were in for him, the transfer should have been closed before it was out in the public (something similar to Vidic & Evra etc.) (-1)
4. Morata: There is no other way to do this one. RM wants money, United want to Morata without having to pay world record like fees for a bench player. Had to be played out in the papers and with Morata pushing for it. (neutral).
5. Fabinho: Haven't seen any serious links coming from United or renowned papers. Most of the stuff is in the Sun, etc. (never trust those). (neutral)
6. Matic: Looks like this one is happening. Getting one of the top CDMs from another title contender will be a big big plus (makes us stronger and makes them weaker). Still don't think this will happen though. (-1).

Overall, we have had a decent June. Ed has not been poor, and Jose has chosen some tough targets to add to his squad. It was always going to play out into August. If we can get a couple more signings in before pre-season (looking very unlikely), it will have been a brilliant effort by Ed.
 
Wrote this in the Sanchez thread but think it's also relevant here. It's why of only those four come in, I still can't see us challenging for the title or winning the league. Even with those players, I think we'll struggle to score goals. There are so many areas of the team that need attacking improvements. LB, RB, RW, LW and a more aggressive and attacking style. IMO, it's crucial, Pogba, Martial and Mkhitaryan have a storming season of we are to have a good season. If they're all in form, we will create tons of chances and hopefully take most of them.

Can see them scoring 100+ goals.
Their firepower is insane.
We all know how this will end.
Arsenal are going to sell him.
No way Kreonke allows him run down his contract.
What worries me is that, City last season scored more goals, created more chances and always looked more likely to score than us. Yet, they're still likely to sign more quality than us in attacking areas.
I have yet to see us like ked with one attacking player that imo makes us genuine title contenders.
We are already a team that struggle to score goals. I can't see Morata and Perisic pushing us that far up the table.
 
Wrote this in the Sanchez thread but think it's also relevant here. It's why of only those four come in, I still can't see us challenging for the title or winning the league. Even with those players, I think we'll struggle to score goals. There are so many areas of the team that need attacking improvements. LB, RB, RW, LW and a more aggressive and attacking style. IMO, it's crucial, Pogba, Martial and Mkhitaryan have a storming season of we are to have a good season. If they're all in form, we will create tons of chances and hopefully take most of them.
Aye, I'm not sure how we're going to close the gap to City Chelsea tbh. In fact so far it looks like the gap is going to widen. I'm trying not to be unnecessarily negative, but even the most optimistic supporter must admit it's a worry right now. Griezmann deciding to stay at Atletico is a major blow.
 
Aye, I'm not sure how we're going to close the gap to City Chelsea tbh. In fact so far it looks like the gap is going to widen. I'm trying not to be unnecessarily negative, but even the most optimistic supporter must admit it's a worry right now. Griezmann deciding to stay at Atletico is a major blow.
I think our only hope, considering our transfer targets, is that our current players will seriously up their game. Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rashford all have to improve massively if we want to have a good season. If the new signings are solid and reliable they can provide a platform for that. But they are not going to transform the team so a LOT depends on how much our players improve.
 
I still think we'd be sorely lacking a "special player" in attack and therefore probably finish a similar league position

Chelsea - Hazard
City - Jesus / Aguero / probably Dembele soon
Spurs - Kane / Eriksen / Alli
Liverpool - Coutinho (Mane?)
Arsenal - Sanchez

We don't have an attacker of this quality imo.

Oh gimme a break, don't you dare mention Eriksen as special without mentioning Paul Pogba! Eriksen is good and had a great output last season, but he is very much a set-piece specialist just like Gylfi Sigurdsson. He is also very good at bending crosses from the corner of the box - but that's it. Paul Pogba is eleven times thre more special player and he is going to dominate games much more often going forward. Pogba was pretty much man of the match in every other game and he clearly has goals and tons of assists on him.

United do lack a special attacking player like Sanchez and Hazard though, that is for certain! This is also a pitty, traditionally United always have the best and most exciting player in the league - Mourinho needs to buy a match-winner, someone who gets the fans off of their seats each game.
 
Business can be done from the USA too, you know? We live in the 21st century.
Name one player that we've signed while the squad was on a Summer tour.

There may be an example (probably a player who wouldn't have gone on tour anyway after a World Cup or Euros) but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Especially in a Summer with no major international tournaments

When we go on tour, I can almost promise you our transfer business will be put on hold until they're all back in England in August. Not to say they won't even keep contract or anything, but nothing major will happen while we're out there
 
Oh gimme a break, don't you dare mention Eriksen as special without mentioning Paul Pogba! Eriksen is good and had a great output last season, but he is very much a set-piece specialist just like Gylfi Sigurdsson. He is also very good at bending crosses from the corner of the box - but that's it. Paul Pogba is eleven times thre more special player and he is going to dominate games much more often going forward. Pogba was pretty much man of the match in every other game and he clearly has goals and tons of assists on him.

United do lack a special attacking player like Sanchez and Hazard though, that is for certain! This is also a pitty, traditionally United always have the best and most exciting player in the league - Mourinho needs to buy a match-winner, someone who gets the fans off of their seats each game.
Pogba is a great player, as is De Gea, but I was talking about players with attacking ability - Pogba got 5 goals and 4 assists in PL last season, Eriksen got 8 goals and 15 assists - there's no comparison there. And, last time I checked, goals directly or indirectly from set pieces count equally the same as other goals.
 
What a difference a day makes. Yesterday loads of "Definitely signing by the weekend" rumours. Today, everything is off and its all doom and gloom. I know that nobody really knows anything and I should wait til players are holding up the scarf, but without any footy to watch I keep falling for the "refresh refresh refresh" loop on newsnow etc :(