he scored a goal and gets in the way. but he's not in anyway shape or form good enough to be a united player and i'd sell him in this window if i could get a physical midf. who can pass it in return. he maybe in this side but he's not a cure. DFM paid over 40m for him in his managerial career to this point.
Would Fellaini improve under a new manager?
- Thread starter MZX7
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I actually think LVG rates him more than Herrera. Everyone keeps saying he's a good squad player but at the moment, and if he keeps on performing well, he'll be more than that.
He shouldn't be more than that though, which is the real point. If we had a midfield that was actually functioning at a title winning level then Fellaini would be no more than a very useful option off the bench. As is it appears we actually need him to start, which is a bit worrying in it's own way.
He clearly just thinks he can have more of an impact, for obvious reasons. Fellaini coming on can change things more dramatically than pretty much any other player in the squad, he's definitely a useful tool in the squad. Herrera is ideal when we're already dominating a game or playing a team which we intend to hassle and push high up the pitch. I do agree that it's hard to leave him out currently, but Herrera plays well pretty much whenever he plays also.
It's only worrying if you are one of those who probably doesn't even watch the match, but rather just sees the name 'Fellaini' and makes judgements based on their own opinion.
He could be playing like Messi and folk on here would still be saying he isn't good enough just because he is Fellaini.
this. only because we are winning with him doesn't mean he's good enough it means we've fallen that far. he's big and a bit of a handful but i'd prefer skill.
I'm not sure if he thinks he's better per-se but I definitely think he sees him as being more useful. For all the caf's scorn at Fellaini's apparent lack of technical ability he's better at keeping possession than Herrera, whilst also bringing height to set plays, being better defensively and chipping in with important goals. If I was LVG I'd be starting him every game on the right of a diamond, with Carrick behind and Di Maria on the left hand side.
I criticised him many times and wanted him sold. Glad he's proving me wrong now though. He's a horrible holding midfielder but he's really useful further forward.
No, it's worrying if you've watched Fellaini for longer than two years and are able to accurately judge his level of quality.
He was always better than last year suggested, people were wrong to write him off as being useless. However, anyone who thinks he is good enough to be a key player in a title winning squad is equally wrong.
He's a useful squad player. No more, no less. The fact that we might actually be dependent on him is a sign of a dysfunctional midfield.
Are you saying that the other midfielders are not good enough without Fellaini?
Based on your logic, most of the squad is also not good enough, as Fellaini has been one of our better/best players this season so far.
The only players who I think have consistently and definitely been better than Fellaini this season are De Gea, Carrick, Blind and Rooney (in my opinion - there are plenty who have been at a similar level but not 'better') therefore other than those four players, the rest should be merely squad players?
Maybe it's because he's the best midfielder we have at the moment? as difficult as it is for some to admit. He can win possession for us, score goals like the one on Sunday and is good at keeping the ball. I'm not sure I can say much of that for any other of our midfielders aside from Blind.
He's proven himself a good player to have in your squad this season, in my humble opinion. Happy he's proven me wrong, I've come round and like him now, the big oaf.
It's not that they're not good enough, it's more that they haven't gelled as a functioning unit for various reasons.
How is that my logic? I said I'm basing my judgement on more than the last two years, not this season alone.
So his performances at Everton when he destroyed our midfield and others on a regular basis?
Couldn't have put it better myself. Some people will never be convinced.
Fortunately I also saw quite a few of the performances where he looked distinctly average, so my opinion is a bit more balanced than that.
Again, I'm not saying he isn't a useful player, just not a starter for a title winning team. Nothing he did at Everton ever suggested he was that good. Unless you focus solely on his best games, that is.
The midfield that was shite right from 2009 onwards and got dominated by most teams?!
And even if we accepted what you said as fact - you also rule out the concept of him improving as a player? Better facilities, better manager etc
Perhaps, but still won the league etc
Yeah, he could improve. In fact he should improve given his age and the benefits you mentioned.
He'd have to improve an awful lot to step up to the level I'm on about though.
So we have a player who previously was one of the best players for a Europa League level team, has moved to United and - after a Shite first season for the entire club - is now outperforming our other midfielders (who incidentally, ARE regarded as 'good enough' by the majority) - but he (Fellaini) is still a 'long way off' being good enough for us, even if he improves.
To be honest it sounds more to me like (another) case of someone making up their mind about a player and refusing to budge on that position irrespective of their performance.
He's outperforming our other players at a time when they are playing way below the standard we expected of them. So, while it's nice that he's doing well, it's a big concern that none of the players who are actually better than him are able to match his level of performances. Unless you don't think we shouldn't expect the likes of Di Maria, Mata and Herrera to match Fellaini's level? That's my whole point, if they (as a unit) were doing what we expected them to then Fellaini wouldn't be so essential to our team atm.
I'm not refusing to change my opinion. I will accept that Fellaini is a top quality player when he starts performing like one consistently. Half a season where he's better than a seriously underperforming bunch isn't enough to convince me he'd be good enough to be a key player for the likes of Chelsea/City, for example. That's the level I'm talking about and it's only right to judge him on more than this relatively brief spell of form.
@sullydnl right - just as your are rating the other players on your perception of their 'expected' level of performance, you are rating Fellaini on his 'expected' level of performance - ie that he isn't good enough regardless of how he actually plays.
Do you think I'm wrong to expect Angel Di Maria to be better than Fellaini? Obviously I have different levels of expectation for them, I've seen them play to massively different levels before. It would be weird if I wasn't expecting different things from them.
The "he isn't good enough regardless of how he actually plays" point only works if he's actually playing beyond the level I expect him to. He isn't.
This is going nowhere. You are essentially saying that you expect the other players to be performing better, but that they are allegedly capable of playing at a higher level than Fellaini is allegedly capable of. The entire argument is based around your (and others) perceptions of players ability and potential. You dont think Fellaini is able to play at the required level, but that others are, so therefore Fellaini is not good enough. Their actual level of performance is not taken into account whatsoever.
The fact that our best run of games and performances this season coincided with Fellaini's run of games, the fact that our points per game with Fellaini starting is substantially higher than without... all the actual statistics and performances are meaningless. It goes back to what I said earlier - that even if Fellaini were playing like Messi, there would be people on here who wouldnt want him starting because he is Fellaini and therefore simply cant be good enough for a top club.
I think it's the hair. Some people just hate afros.
We know for sure that Mata and Di Maria are capable of being much better than Fellaini as we've seen them do it before! There's no "allegedly" about it, they're obviously better players! Why on earth would I just judge their ability on their current performances? That would make absolutely zero sense.
I am taking Fellaini's actual level of performance into account, he's playing at pretty much the level I expect from him (or thought he was capable of, at least).
I was under the impression our results started to improve when Carrick came back from injury. Could be wrong. Not into stats.
Di Maria has never played in the premier league before, and before last season he wouldnt have been worth anything like £60m.
Mata has been anonymous in probably 75% of games for us since he joined, I would say. We all know what he is capable of but at no point has he been able to deliver on a consistent basis for us - not even last season when he had his best form, was he playing at a level that merited a 'world class' status, for me.
Its fine to rate players potential, but if they do not deliver on it then there must come a point where the expectation is changed. Just because a player had a great season a few years ago, we shouldnt hold out for ever more that he will (or can) return to that level.
What it boils back down to is what (if any) place Fellaini deserves in the squad. As far as I am concerned, the level he has performed at this season is good enough for a top side, and this appears to be where we disagree. Our best run of form where we went unbeaten was with Fellaini in the side playing 90 minutes every game, we had the best results and performance and we were the leagues form team. Do better midfielders exist in world football? Of course. But if we are winning our games and playing well, surely that consistutes "good enough" (in the context of people saying that he is NOT "good enough")?
I wonder if Everton would do a swapsie with Coleman?
Carrick was also reintroduced to the team around the same time, correct. At no point have I tried to claim that Fellaini was single handedly responsible for our results, merely that he was an important component of those results and performances and that if we are playing well and producing good results, surely that constitutes the player(s) being "good enough".
There was a fake (I think) Phil McNulty twitter account saying that Everton wanted Fellaini on loan after their game tonight. Coleman for me should be pretty much our #1 transfer target at the moment so I would bite their arm off for a swap deal
Saw a few Everton fans saying at the start of the season that Fellaini wouldn't get in their team. This was when his career looked to be over here. Could do with his tenacity in the middle..
Yep, that's where we disagree alright. I don't think his performances this season would merit a starting place in a top side. He definitely wouldn't start in the Chelsea team and I don't see him starting in the City team either.
We certainly looked better when he was playing but in all honesty we weren't performing anything like title challengers then either.
I wonder if you are looking at Fellaini individually or at the team performances; would your opinion have been different if the strikers were banging in their chances and the defence was nice and tight?
Fellaini for me is good when he's played as the third man in midfield, but when we are playing two deeper players I question whether his range of passing is good enough.
He's certainly worth keeping in the squad, and has done well this season. He is improving and hopefully continues to do so. Done better than a lot of other higher reputation players have in our midfield.
He's certainly worth keeping in the squad, and has done well this season. He is improving and hopefully continues to do so. Done better than a lot of other higher reputation players have in our midfield.
It's certainly true that Fellaini wasn't the problem in those performances. In fact it would be unfair to expect him to look amazing when the rest of the team around him was struggling.
I really have no complaints about Fellaini's performances this season, he deserves credit for playing well and getting people back on side. I just don't think he's played so brilliantly that we couldn't reasonably expect our more talented players to be doing better than him. It's the fact that they're underperforming that bothers me, not anything that Fellaini is doing.
Anyway, we'll probably have to agree to disagree as I'm off to sleep.