Okay, so I got his price wrong. I was saying it from memory anyway. But in any case, you keep riding that high horse home.
Would Fellaini improve under a new manager?
- Thread starter MZX7
- Start date
Okay, so I got his price wrong. I was saying it from memory anyway. But in any case, you keep riding that high horse home.
So many negatives and the team was so poor last season, its hard to make a true assessment of him or what he is or isn't capable of. I cant think in the last 10 years there was a worst time to sign for Man Utd than last year. Its hardly like he had Scholes, Ince, Keane or Robbo next to him in midfield either. He was also out with a back and then wrist injury, so was out for long periods of the season which wouldn't have helped.
Think he's better than most give him credit for on form, not a player you want to play against every week. Will be interesting LVG assessment of him.
Regarding him playing well against the big teams, who did aside from DDG?
Think he's better than most give him credit for on form, not a player you want to play against every week. Will be interesting LVG assessment of him.
Regarding him playing well against the big teams, who did aside from DDG?
Good post, you've taken in to account everything. Unfortunately the Caf likes to deal in extremes. No middle ground whatsoever.
I can see him massively improve under Big Sam
I think Young is a perfectly good squad player.
For me there has been a major overshoot with Young. People talk about him like he is the worst player we ever had, he just isnt.
The problem is we spent too much on him, and signed him at a time when we were crying out to strengthen the first team, instead we bought a backup winger who was no improvement on what we had. That was always my objection to him. It wasnt he was rubbish per se, it was just a disappointing signing to make - and an overpriced one at that.
But he is a decent squad player to have, given he is quite versatile in the attacking positions.
For me there has been a major overshoot with Young. People talk about him like he is the worst player we ever had, he just isnt.
The problem is we spent too much on him, and signed him at a time when we were crying out to strengthen the first team, instead we bought a backup winger who was no improvement on what we had. That was always my objection to him. It wasnt he was rubbish per se, it was just a disappointing signing to make - and an overpriced one at that.
But he is a decent squad player to have, given he is quite versatile in the attacking positions.
What in the feck do you base this on?
His bullshit first season here. He's clearly out of his depth and overawed by the big stage.
I doubt it. Although in a Belgium shirt, he looks pretty good.
This is meaningless bullshit, bordering on dime-story psychology.
Fellaini might not be good enough to be in United`first XI, but it`s not because of astrology or whatever the feck many of you seem to be on about.
Astrology? My my what are you high on tonight pal? We don't need to read the stars to know that waste of space belongs at a lesser club.
Pick whatever pseudo-scientific bullshit you like.
The point is, Fellaini has massive flaws in his game that might prevent him from being good enough to start at United, but there`s no evidence whatsoever that he`s ``overawed`` or ``feeling the pressure.`` It`s a bizarre claim.
There's a strong possibility he is. We can only speculate on why he hasn't performed as expected. You act like its never happened to people before, fazed by the occasion and failing to deliver. Its far from a bizaare claim. Loosen the feck up you're taking this ' need evidence' and 'scientific' approach way too fecking seriously.
You write as if none of the games were televised and we`re just guessing. He played enough for it to be clear that:
(1) He struggled to mark opposing players in midfield (Schweinsteiger`s goal which turned the Munich tie)
(2) He is likely to pick up a red card at any time (Should have been off well before he was actually red carded against Citeh)
(3) His passing is nothing special and is lacking in creativity, but not outright disqualifying for a CM.
(4) He`s a good option at the back post on set-pieces and open play (Wilson`s debut goal)
and I`m sure multiple other things that are actually real and not just made up.
Sorry if I get annoyed, but I can`t stand the idea that players fail because they`re mentally weak or hiding when there is no evidence of it. It`s the flipside of Liverpool fans and their insane glorification of players.
Van Gaal will either decide Fellaini can be a solid box to box CM like he is for Everton, despite his weaknesses, or he`ll sell him and use the money on a more technically gifted player. But it won`t be because Fellaini suddenly gets rattled by playing at home for 70K fans instead of 40K or there`s more reporters at our press conferences.
So I take it you don't believe in the notion of 'confidence' players like Nani or Torres for instance? Im not arguing for Fellaini anyways. I hope LVG gets rid.
I believe in it theoretically, but without proof, I think it makes more sense to look at things like loss of pace and injury troubles in those cases.
Torres for one, looks pretty confident to me, most of the time I see him play. He takes people on and looks to score, he just doesn't have the pace to get in behind and his finishing has dropped off to become average.
Contrary to the popular believe that CL goal was actually Carrick's fault. Tracking a man that he had two defenders to give a shout to in an overload situation where his tracking run made it 5 on 3. (He has always had huge problems tracking runners in situations like this.) Central midfielders as experienced as him need to give a shout and return to the centre but instead he is ball watching and then marking nothing at all tot he left of the centre of the area. No advanced players should be charged with returning that far and then blamed for goals for not getting back when we actually had overload options in the box caused by one man needlessly tracking a player that two defenders can cover and not returning to pick up BS with an age. I mean be just turns in a circle and watches the ball go over and be headed down to him. Some might say Jones needs to do better picking him up there as well. You can't attach blame to Fellaini for not getting back when it's a 6 on 5 situation in favour of the defenders. You can't blame any player that isn't part of the defending 6 to come back that far.. Unless maybe it's Rooney.
At least it shows he's willing to be combative and actually offer some form of pressing game with tackling. When the other players around you can identify that you can close space correctly and actually compete for the ball then it gives them the confidence to read your ability to do so and play around that when defending. Part of this will just take time. (Not really sure why he should have been off early against City.. But anyway, I cant remember him being sent off off the top of my head.) So if we get rid we get rid but we can at least work on that in the meantime if he stays and it's something defensively that he does well enough to build on. Part of the way we clashed last season was the fact that Moyes style in terms of trying to make Carrick a 'defensive' holding player and not a 'screening' player was the fact that Carrick doesn't press and tackle. He marks space and allows runners to penetrate on and off the ball and without the partner in a 'deep two' being lightning quick and tireless and pressing properly then it was completely pointless and destroyed every combination we had. MC-TC, MC-MF, MC-DF, MC-Ando. There is certainly little bits of that to fix up but I think the actual defensive game that would be preferrable to move forward with would involve Fellaini more-so than Carrick (maybe even Fletch).
His passing is fine. Especially in closed spaces and pass and move passages. His control is good enough but it's not as though every midfield player has to be Paul Scholes in attack and Roy Keane in defense to have something to work with.
I think this 'shit on a stick' methodology bleeds over into far to many aspects of why people see a use for him. Okay he's tall and can bring the ball down with head or chest at a decent level but the mere mention of it on here instantly makes the majority think that it is the only way to use him. There are other area's of his game that this opinion is shadowing.
Last edited:
I think this is a key point. He was carrying an injury for the first half of it too. He should get one more chance. We spent decent money on him, we shouldn't cut our losses so quickly.
How many times have we done the joke about Fellainis new manager being Sam Allardyce ?
I might be being a bit harsh on Fellaini, but he showed this lack of urgency in closing down players in dangerous positions all season, I thought.
No idea how you blame Carrick there. He plays the situation well, marking a man until the CB picks him up, then covering a dangerous area. Seems like it would be typical for the other CM to look to cover the middle when his partner is dragged wide.
This is great, how good is my memory that I remember it nearly exactly how it happens. Good vid showing how bad Carrick's ball watching has gotten.
How funny is it that Carrick and Vidic's ball watching movements are almost identical. Carrick when the ball comes in really needs to get across the area out to the unmarked man. There is no way it's anyone fault trying to track back in that situation. I mean he legitimately creates a 2 on 1 marking situation by mistakenly tracking a runner and then doesn't get back across to be the heads up defender. In no way could you blame anyone behind that runner for not tracking back.
I think you have that completely wrong. Carrick is tracking #7 and just before the ball is crossed you see Carrick take a look to check where #7 is. Carricks initial defensive running line is with #7, he tracks him into the box, the guy who scores is not Carricks responsibility because he is already tracking someone. Also Carricks body position is facing towards his own goal as he tracks his man, what should have happeend is either 1 of the 2 spare central defenders who are facing in the direction which enables them to see the entire situation either make a call or shut down the space that the goal scorer is running in to. On top of that I think Fellaini lost the scorer when tracking back. Fellaini is the closest player to the scorer. Thats not Carricks fault
Yes, that is the error. He should be letting his defender deal with that player once the ball is delivered high he should be getting back into that central area ASAP. Of course the Jones is probably equally liable but it's Carrick's defensive zone. If he's moved out of it to track a runner then he's made an error. Especially so when he's created a 2v1 marking situation. Essentially double manning a player in that area is a no-no. A shout to Vidic and then some awareness of his defensive zone is all that was needed there and he had plenty of time to do it. Especially with the double hop skip essentially standing alone marking nobody, while ball watching. Even when the goal went in he's making absolutely no movement to return to cover his zone or get to the ball. It's not the responsibility of the player tracking back from up field to return to be the heads up defender in that situation.
Fellaini didn't lose the scorer. He made a long run back into the box from a long way up the field. It's not his responsibility to cover over a potential (and if he's playing the situation correctly) a heads up defender. It's the heads up defenders responsibility. Probably as much liability is to be placed on Jones also.
edit: Goal side, is probably better referred to than 'heads up defender'.
Whether Fellaini can improve or not under a new manager is entirely up to him, some players can listen, adapt and improve under the right guidance, that happens all the time in football so it's silly to flat out say it won't happen, moyes didn't have anything new to add to him really, you can't say the same about van gaal.
The way his version of midfield operated was completely wrong for all of the other players at the club and then Fellaini stuck smack bang in there playing his box to box role. It's a wonder why he struggled.
I am sure he can do better than last season but the truth is he wouldn’t get in the starting 11 at any of the sides who finished above us apart from possibly Everton but with the way they evolved under Martinez I don’t think he would be guaranteed a place week in week out there either. If our aim is to get back to winning titles and challenging for the Champions League then we can’t afford to have Fellaini in our starting 11 on a regular basis, he should be 4th or 5th choice which would mean he will get very few games and it would be better for everyone involved if he was moved on.
I don`t see why Carrick should abandon the near post area? He`s the only spare man on that side of the pitch, which is where the ball is. He`s also blocking the lane to let Lahm just play the ball into a Munich player with his back to goal.
Yea, but Fellaini has an added tag of being an Everton doesn't remind people of Moyes 'cos he
First of all, one cannot compare Fellaini with Mata. Mata is a really gifted talent.
And of course I agree about everything that you have said about Fellaini's performances for Manchester United so far. That is the reason the title of the thread reads "Will Fellaini improve...."
And let us not kid ourselves into believing that any player (except De Gea) has been at his best this past season. No one. Not even Mata. Look at what Kagawa was reduced to. And how Cleverley's performances dropped. So every player whether it be classy ones like Mata or mediocre ones like Cleverly had their abilities reduced to a certain degree under Moyes.
The reason why Fellaini is wrapped with Moyes is because he reminds our fans of the dreadful managerial appointment from Everton and the dreadful summer where we wanted Fabregas but ended up with an overpriced Fellaini. Really that wasn't Fellaini's fault. Any player in a mid to bottom table team would love to be a part of a big club.
Yes, maybe Fellaini isn't as gifted as some of our "target" midfield signings but I want to see him and a bunch of other players improving their game under Van Gaal.
After all, as long as they don the red devil's jersey, they are our players.
He's the extra man in a 4 on 2. It's not his area, he should be moving back into his zone to cover face up players. A quick shout and a glance back would see that there is a man coming in off the knockdown and he doesn't get back in time. He's just not that type of player to close and hose and get's caught out ball watching a lot. One of the goals late in the season where he just stands there and watches the guy ghost in and stick it in the net without reacting.
Last edited:
He isn't a CM.
Thought I'll bump up this thread that I had started a few months back. I think today's performance validates my claim...he has improved...and it is so good to see him come through after he had been written off before he had even started
but like somebody said, he will never be a player that should be first choice in the league and certainly not in Europe. He is ideal for games likes today and next week, where a physical presence is needed...but he is certainly improving and showing to be a good squad player.
If the bench strength is on-par with the best teams in the world, no player bar a few should be first choice because like our team every other team has a game plan. To outwit or match tacticians like Mourinho, you need tacticians like LvG.
The team should be picked based on the strengths and weaknesses of other teams and based on what we have in our side.
LvG got his tactics spot on today and picked Fellaini for a reason and to do a job and by most standards that was definitely a job well done.
Credit where it's due lads.
Everyone has their own thread while people still look for excuses to move fellaini out. He is not worth 30 million, yet he is going to be a very useful player. We cannot play everygame beautifully which leads to games like Leicester. Fellaini was immense today until about the 75 min mark today. Well done.
Had a good chance to score as well. It wouldn't have surprised me if he had rifled that in. Growing in confidence.
Serious MOTM contender yesterday, stifled Fabregas to almost nought and helped us shift the ball forward.
A growing influence indeed and in tight games where you need something a bit out of the ordinary his presence certainly offers that.
A growing influence indeed and in tight games where you need something a bit out of the ordinary his presence certainly offers that.
Cesc Played? He's invisible last night
Remember the last time one of our midfield players shat on Cesc?
Anderson, I'm talking about Anderson. Remember the last time one of our midfield players shat on Cesc?
I'm serious though, not a football tactics expert, but he really make cesc disappear last night.
I guess it's too early, let's see if Fellaini can keep this up, one good game doesn't make a player.
And Anderson was once a highly rated youngster who was bought as a long term replacement to Paul Scholes, obviously it didn't work out as planned due to injuries and a poor professional attitude on his part. For a man who most, including myself, would have given away for a song he did well last night and there is no reason for him not to build on it and forge himself a successful career, of sorts, here.Remember the last time one of our midfield players shat on Cesc?
I think he will benefit from LVG's management because he sounds like a man who is clear on what he wants from a player. Obviously it's early days and he has it all to do but let's not take away his best performance for us because some shite, overweight and under-motivated Brazilian couldn't build on his early performances.