Wot, no transfers?

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it still has members of the squad that for the life of me i can't understand are still around
They still have contracts and other clubs aren't interested/can't afford them. Then in other cases, like Darmian, clubs simply aren't paying what United want. There's no need to offload a player and give other clubs a bargain if the player isn't a disruptive influence and has his uses.

if we hear any rumours its always constantly for players like Bale who we play transfer merry go round with every summer it feels and it gets us nowhere.
That's ecause those rumors get clicks on pages and therefor ad money. Transfer gossip is mostly just that, gossip. It's rarely accurate. Going to a psychic might yield better accuracy.

The fact is we don't know what the transfer strategy is. Money is certainly being limited somewhat. Spending big one year might mean less the next year or spending big 2 years might mean less the next two years depending on what the goals are. Personally I don't think the club is in horrible shape personel wise. I think we can generally agree with Mourinho's assessment before the summer on what the club needs and those places haven't been filled. Transfer are however complicated, clubs and agents know what kind of money they can expect. You also shouldn't just buy a player just because. Settling for a player won't solve anything. I think the club has settled too much in the past windows and I'd rather they'd stop doing that.
 
1. Timo Werner - £9mill to RB Leipzig
2. Julian Draxler - £35mill to PSG
3. James Rodriguez - £50-60mill - Loan with an option to buy to Bayern
4. Ruben Neves - £16mill to Wolves
5. Eric Bailly - £30mill
6. Paul Pogba - £89mill
7. Marcos Alonso - £20mill to Chelsea
8. Davinson Sanchez £4mill to Ajax
9. Thomas Meunier £5mill to PSG
10. Gelson Martins - Free to Atletico
11. Aleksandr Golovin - £27mill to Monaco

Whilst this list looks good because of how it's turned out, you could list all the players United has bought in Jose's time and at the moment they were bought, most believed they'd be addressing a problem area that needed addressing.

Ibrahimovic (New striker needed to take burden off Martial / Rashford)
Mkhitaryan (Coming off being bundesligas best player)
Bailly (Young exciting CB)
Pogba (Potential to be greatest CM of his generation)
Lukaku (Ibrahimovic injury)
Matic (Carrick old, DM needed)
Lindelof (Talented youngster)
Sanchez (Replaced a flop in Mkhi)
Fred (Creativity and drive for midfield)
Dalot (Exciting youngster, Valencia understudy)

So we've signed 10 players, in your list we would have only signed 1 more. It's just the varying degrees with which they have worked out. Personally, I'm not writing Lindelof off just yet, he had a great world cup and wouldn't be the first overseas player to take a year to settle. Besides him and Mkhi I don't feel you could call any of our transfers a flop.

We've got progressively better, it's just that City have done it quicker and a hell of a lot more excitingly. However, with Pereira coming back (and looking great) we could have a really young core to build around potentially.

DDG
Dalot* Bailly Lindelof (?) Shaw(?)
Pereira
Fred Pogba
Chong* Lukaku Rashford

Shaw and Lindelof are a question mark, as they would need to step up massively, however they have the potential to do so.

Chong and Dalot are started to show little to Jo first team action yet, they are truly just potential at the moment. However, you can clearly see our transfers haven't been terrible really and just making a list of ones that have worked out is always going to look a lot better.
 
It is high time we appoint a director of football, find an ideal guy for the post, envision the type of football we want to play and sign players accordingly, all the well run clubs don't let managers sign whoever they want, we got away because of SAF but three managers since SAF we should learn something from the transfer debacles since.
 
Do we actually have a transfer strategy? Anyone know what it is?
According to Andy Mitten:

Mourinho, Woody and the head of corporate developement(Certainly an expert on football in general, hence his job decription) creates a list of 3 players per position "we" want to strengthen. This happens around new year.
Based on the players on the list Woody and the head of C talks to agents and clubs around February regarding the availability of the players on said list. And based on this (i assume) tries to conduct the transfers as early as possible.

What players do they(Woody mainly target)? They always look for the best in the world in each position, but as these players rarely are available, they have to go down the list.
 
Some will argue oh well the players wouldn't be that cheap for us because 'Manchester United tax' on top, maybe we wouldn't have a chance against other clubs, but you can replace each player on that list with an equally priced like for like that arguably we should of been in for. Instead we're playing wingers as fullbacks, we seem to love square pegs in round holes and we're signing for positions we don't even need when we have gaping holes like at RW, it just makes absolutely no sense to me and surely i'm not the only one.

If signing players we don't need includes Sanchez and there is still a fair argument for that. I think its more that we had the opportunity to get a world class stand out talent in a swap for someone who wasn't quite fitting in.

And yes Sanchez maybe isn't fitting in as well, but he is a much greater talent, will have more value to sell if we so desired. He has the talent for others to follow. He is a natural winner.

If you mean our focus on CBs, just look at our high shots conceded. Our defense is weak and being made to look better by a very defensive approach.

Jose wants more reliability and steel so that the team can push forward. I'm not convinced Maguire is good enough to make such a difference, but he might at least bring some consistency.

Other then that I fail to see where we haven't needed a signing?

I think RB we are squeezing the last value out of Valencia and he is still a strong fit RB, he maybe just lacks a bit going forward which is ironic for a previous winger. Dalot will replace him hopefully over the course of this season, but maybe even one or two more years if Valencia stays as strong and fit.

Young has been on good enough form to get back in the England squad and Shaw was a big investment who had a big injury and still has plenty of years. If there is still faith there, which it seems there is we don't need to rush off and spend more money. Currently Young is giving enough to ensure even if we aren't great here we have potential and a decent base point for now with Young.

CM Jose has addressed years of weakness. Keeping Fellaini makes sense versus losing him for free. He offers variety, a lot of height when you need it and is generally a good disrupter. He'd cost at least £30m to us still so why throw that value away. Don't get me wrong I half wanted him to go, but longer term that money might be better spent on youth prospects or being able to spunk money on someone like Willian without it over jeopardizing long term value, although still doesn't make much sense, as both him and Fellaini would need replacing in the not too distant future so just kicks the can along as you say.
 
According to Andy Mitten:

Mourinho, Woody and the head of corporate developement(Certainly an expert on football in general, hence his job decription) creates a list of 3 players per position "we" want to strengthen. This happens around new year.
Based on the players on the list Woody and the head of C talks to agents and clubs around February regarding the availability of the players on said list. And based on this (i assume) tries to conduct the transfers as early as possible.

What players do they(Woody mainly target)? They always look for the best in the world in each position, but as these players rarely are available, they have to go down the list.
I really don't think the "as early as possible" thing is working out as one might hope! :lol:
 
Totally agree with your first few thoughts on Moyes and LVG, but have a differing opinion on the below.

we are supposedly targetting Maguire for £65mill, why, because he had a half decent World Cup?

Yes, supposedly we are targeting Maguire, but not because he's had a half decent World Cup. If that really was the case, you have to question why we're not in for any of the other cheaper centre-halves who fit the "decent world cup" profile instead. We're (allegedly) in for Maguire because he's a young premier league proven defender who has been the stand-out player for every team, in every league he's played. The World Cup was the cherry on top. I can't believe people are that outraged in an era where English potential like Michael Keane and John Stones go for 30 & 50 mill +.

1. Timo Werner - £9mill to RB Leipzig
2. Julian Draxler - £35mill to PSG
3. James Rodriguez - £50-60mill - Loan with an option to buy to Bayern
4. Ruben Neves - £16mill to Wolves
5. Eric Bailly - £30mill
6. Paul Pogba - £89mill
7. Marcos Alonso - £20mill to Chelsea
8. Davinson Sanchez £4mill to Ajax
9. Thomas Meunier £5mill to PSG
10. Gelson Martins - Free to Atletico
11. Aleksandr Golovin - £27mill to Monaco

would this list not have dramatically improved our entire squad from top to bottom.

It's easy to look at players retrospectively and question why we did or didn't go for them. However, as soon as your mind starts to wonder, ask yourself why United weren't the only one's who didn't?

Timo Werner moved in the Summer of Zlatan, and was also neglected by every other premier league team who bought in a forward over that period, including Jurgen Klopp. Spurs even spunked twice as much on Vincent Janssen! Julian Draxler moved when we had just picked up Mikhtaryan, whilst Ruben Neves went to a Championship team, and hasn't played a single minute in either an elite league or a competitive international competition.

Meanwhile Marcos Alonso moved to Chelsea whilst Luke Shaw was recovering from his leg break. I can only now imagine the type of hate Mourinho would have got should he have fecked off Luke Shaw as soon as he came in and replaced him with Alonso. Sidenote: Alonso is vastly overrated in my opinion, great peg on him, but loose defender. His flaws were even apparent in a tailor-made Conte set-up, so I'm very interested to see how he does in a Sarri team.

Davinson Sanchez was also ignored by all of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs ( as was Virgil Van Dijk,) only to be sold by Ajax to Spurs a year later for 42 mill. Whilst Southampton made a 62 million pound profit on Van Dijk.

Golovin is a total wildcard and in no way should we have gone for him considering we the plethora of midfield options we have at this point.

So if the alternative reality is one with Timo Werner, Julian Draxler and Ruben Neves, then I'm totally fine with our Romelu, Alexis Sanchez and Nemanja Matic.

Keep the faith my friend. I know Mourinho's mood has made this pre-season testing, but I think there are a few twists and turns this window yet, and we'll most certainly see both Darmian and Rojo joining Daley Blind out the door.
 
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The common denominator overall remains Woody, he doesn't reside in Mqnchester, he is a sponsorship guru, is tasked with keeping the Glazers balance sheet and profits in order.

Seems incongruous that a club of our size struggles with completing signings, as I have indicated, he really doesn't inspire confidence in a role where particularly this off season we have been shown how to do it by Citeh and Liverpool. Identify targets to improve the team, sensible negotiations and sign them. That doesnt happen without being close to the team and manager, it seems that needs were identified and because of a reluctance to move players on for a reduction of transfers get paid, the old balance sheet etc plays its part and we stall and stall, not a good conclusion for possibly the biggest club in the world.
 
Something I read on the caf recently - our transfer strategy (if you can call it that) is reactive instead of being proactive.
I also think that our board are trying to follow the business model of Arsenal in that so long as we're in the CL, they're not going to make vast investments in the squad in one window.
We'd perhaps see some big signing every other window but beyond that, they won't put a ton of cash on the table too try and buy out a squad like City or PSG.

Arsenal? Who was their Pogba signing? Of course not
 
You really have to wonder... If we had a proper strategy, we'd have tried to get all the players in before the WC. It is clear that Leicester holds all the cards now. Further, we should identify the players a little bit earlier in their career. We hardly buy top class talents anymore

Because Maguire was not a real target for Jose or the scouts. IMO, if he was even on the radar it was well down the order. If he was a true target, he'd have been rumoured at the beginning of the window. This is complete panic by woodward and the club. Panic got us fellaini on the deadline, this time it seems like the panic just occured a few days earlier. :lol:

Duncan Castles said on a podcast that Jose cannot understand wtf woodward has been doing since Fred, now we know. Dithering and panic. :nervous::nervous:
 
Totally agree with your first few thoughts on Moyes and LVG, but have a differing opinion on the below.

Yes, supposedly we are targeting Maguire, but not because he's had a half decent World Cup. If that really was the case, you have to question why we're not in for any of the other cheaper centre-halves who fit the "decent world cup" profile instead. We're (allegedly) in for Maguire because he's a young premier league proven defender who has been the stand-out player for every team, in every league he's played. The World Cup was the cherry on top. I can't believe people are that outraged in an era where English potential like Michael Keane and John Stones go for 30 & 50 mill +.

It's easy to look at players retrospectively and question why we did or didn't go for them. However, as soon as your mind starts to wonder, ask yourself why United weren't the only one's who didn't?

Timo Werner moved in the Summer of Zlatan, and was also neglected by every other premier league team who bought in a forward over that period, including Jurgen Klopp. Spurs even spunked twice as much on Vincent Janssen! Julian Draxler moved when we had just picked up Mikhtaryan, whilst Ruben Neves went to a Championship team, and hasn't played a single minute in either an elite league or a competitive international competition.

Meanwhile Marcos Alonso moved to Chelsea whilst Luke Shaw was recovering from his leg break. I can only now imagine the type of hate Mourinho would have got should he have fecked off Luke Shaw as soon as he came in and replaced him with Alonso. Sidenote: Alonso is vastly overrated in my opinion, great peg on him, but loose defender. His flaws were even apparent in a tailor-made Conte set-up, so I'm very interested to see how he does in a Sarri team.

Davinson Sanchez was also ignored by all of Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs ( as was Virgil Van Dijk,) only to be sold by Ajax to Spurs a year later for 42 mill. Whilst Southampton made a 62 million pound profit on Van Dijk.

Golovin is a total wildcard and in no way should we have gone for him considering we the plethora of midfield options we have at this point.

So if the alternative reality is one with Timo Werner, Julian Draxler and Ruben Neves, then I'm totally fine with our Romelu, Alexis Sanchez and Nemanja Matic.

Keep the faith my friend. I know Mourinho's mood has made this pre-season testing, but I think there are a few twists and turns this window yet, and we'll most certainly see both Darmian and Rojo joining Daley Blind out the door.

You shouldn’t be posting this sort of well measured, balanced and thoughtful post on here... this is one of the best posts I have seen in a while.

It’s easy to look at other teams’ successes in the transfer market, and to forget about their failures - which all teams have.

The other point I would make is that players need to develop to be at the standard we need them to be at - of the OPs lost above, Sanchez is the perfect example. I don’t think he’s good enough for Utd now, and that’s after a £42m transfer to Spurs! It’s similar with posters who argue that we should have picked up Maguire from Hull - but he wasn’t ready for us at that point.

This is not new, we did it with Carrick and Ferdinand for example, they were both on our radar when they went to Spurs and Leeds, but were not ready and needed time to develop at better teams than West Ham. So we paid more for them a couple of years later from Leeds and Spurs, when they were then ready to be Utd first team players, if we would have bought them from West Ham, potentiallly they would never have had the same impact for us, as they wouldn’t have played as much in those formative years.
 
I thought you’d go big this summer il be honest. Unless there’s a big 2 weeks ahead I think most will predict you outside the top 2, including on here.
 
Jones and Smalling have shown over many seasons they aren't consistent enough or good enough to start week in week out. Jones is injury prone and always has a mistake in him, lacks pace, clumsy, poor positioning.
Have you seen Jones get done by Hazard in the FA Cup Final? And then again by Hazard in the 3rd 4th place play off for England? Rojo is a crock too, not even worth mentioning him as if he'll pay more than a handful of games.
Neither Jones or Smalling can play the ball out too well from the back which is modern football. Or maybe not, Rio was incredible at doing it years ago. Either way they can't.
If anyone thinks they can be the basis for our defense week in week out next season I hope you weren't hoping for us to challenge for any competitions, because as they proved they aren't up to it against the best in the big games.

Coming back to my point, I'd like to see more of Lindelof. Made a couple of mistakes early on last year. But so did De Gea for his first season or two, didn't write him off.
Smalling and Jones have been doing that since we signed them and before.
In fact I remember when we signed Smalling from Fulham and he was labeled the next Rio and then I watched Fulham Villa and he got absolutely ripped apart by Gabby Agbonlahor and I realized it probably wasn't going to be.

I dont get this constant Smalling bashing. The guy has been first choice CB for SAF, Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and yet, according to this place, he is a walking accident.
 
Feck me! Maguire is okay but not willian ffs
Maguire is Ok and could get better, but it would have been even better if we had taken a punt on him when he was leaving Hull instead of getting fleeced now. We will take risks signing young foreign players and that they are all going to be the next best thing, but have stopped doing it with young British players. Then moan when they do start looking good and have to pay a premium price down the line.
 
I dont get this constant Smalling bashing. The guy has been first choice CB for SAF, Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and yet, according to this place, he is a walking accident.

Smalling might be an excellent defender who is rarely beaten for pace, strength or in the air but he turns his body a few degrees away from an aesthetically pleasing angle when he passes to a team mates. This means he is utter trash I'm afraid.
 
Also agree with the poster who said the big problem we have is our bench players are not good enough for the big teams, but on too high a wage to sell to lesser teams. Therefore it is a battle actually getting rid of them. At times you wonder in some cases it might be better just not renewing their contracts, but we do to protect our so-called investment and lo and behold give them even more money making it even harder to get rid of them. We have had the use out of them, surely it is just better to free up a squad place and get their wages off the bill?
 
I’m feeling fairly jaded where transfers are concerned in general given how little success we’ve had since Fergie left. It’s hard to get excited about them anymore, I’d rather see us promote youth.

If we’re going to sign players we need those who fit the managers plans rather than crow barring in the likes of Bale etc. on massive wages.
 
I really don't think the "as early as possible" thing is working out as one might hope! :lol:

Difference between agreement in principle between two clubs and a player, and signing a contract. Many transfers being presented in June/July were all but done some months earlier.

Summerwindow of 2016 and 2017 was fairly good. This season it seems the problem is the board not willing to provide the funds Mourinho wants to buy players, not Woody being a cretin in transfer dealings.
 
he really doesn't inspire confidence in a role where particularly this off season we have been shown how to do it by Citeh
Have we? Is this the same City who so far have signed a player they messed up signing in January who they pursued after they messed up signing Sanchez? Who they messed up on signing the previous summer. The same City who pursued Jorginho all summer only to watch him sign for Chelsea?
 
The bottom line is the club isn't a money pit, all the money the club does make doesn't all go into the transfer budget. Let's face it Mourinho has had a lot of money to spend since he's been here and how many of the deals have been a success? Not that many, I can appreciate that the club may not be prepared to give him large sums to spend this summer. The selling before we buy process does make sense.
 
Woodward can get deals over the line - he's proven that. He does need to stop wanting to go for big shiny players and actually try to understand that we need a functioning team and not just players who are good for marketing.

Having said that, I think the problem is what or who the manager wants, and what the board thinks is feasible. Like it or not, we need to watch our financial state. We need to survive after Jose fecks off in 6 months or a year. We cannot have him leave the team with expensive old players on huge salaries, who will need to be replaced in a fairly short time.

The fact remains that one of the areas that Jose wants to improve is our defence - yet the club has provided his targets since he's been here. It's not their fault that he either chose the wrong targets, or cannot get the best out of them. What should Woodward do in that case? Constantly help the manager clean up his mess by buying him new players? Why can't the manager apply his coaching skills - for which the club is paying him a hell of a lot of money - and get the current crop playing well?

Honestly, both are to blame to some extent. However, I'm going to side with Woodward here in this instance in light of Jose's rumoured targets who don't represent value for the amount of money their clubs want from us.
 
The bottom line is the club isn't a money pit, all the money the club does make doesn't all go into the transfer budget. Let's face it Mourinho has had a lot of money to spend since he's been here and how many of the deals have been a success? Not that many, I can appreciate that the club may not be prepared to give him large sums to spend this summer. The selling before we buy process does make sense.
Absolutely. We cannot be financially irresponsible. It's a painful reality for transfer muppets but if we want to continue seeing transfers in the future, then we need to be very careful about our spending, especially in light of the fact that we've spent a huge amount already.
 
I dont get this constant Smalling bashing. The guy has been first choice CB for SAF, Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and yet, according to this place, he is a walking accident.

I think Smalling is a good defender but I see him as a squad option/bench player, much like Wes Brown Jonny Evans and John O'shea were in the old days. He's capable of stepping in for injuries and suspensions and for squad rotation but I just don't think he should be a starter for us. Is he up there with the likes of Stam, Rio and Vidic?
The modern game is with centre halves who can play the ball out from the back, like it or not and he's not great at that.
 
I think our transfer strategy has been fine under mourinho. In Lukaku and Sanchez we have two of the leagues best in their positions. Same in Pogba and Matic. who knows with Fred.

At the back obviously is our biggest concern, but really because Bailly has got some injuries and Lindelof potentially is a poor purchase. I do think Mourinho probably thought Lindelof and Bailly would be a partnership but if Lindelof isn't working out what can you do.

Mhiki was a brilliant signing for the money paid, who knows why it didn't work out.
 
I think our transfer strategy has been fine under mourinho. In Lukaku and Sanchez we have two of the leagues best in their positions. Same in Pogba and Matic. who knows with Fred.

At the back obviously is our biggest concern, but really because Bailly has got some injuries and Lindelof potentially is a poor purchase. I do think Mourinho probably thought Lindelof and Bailly would be a partnership but if Lindelof isn't working out what can you do.

Mhiki was a brilliant signing for the money paid, who knows why it didn't work out.

Yeah. I think now or in the near future we need a RB LB and CB, All good enough to be starters for us. 3 players in and shipping out the likes of darmian, rojo and jones would dramatically change the face of our defense. I really think we need Lindelof and Shaw to come good that would really help us
 
I think Smalling is a good defender but I see him as a squad option/bench player, much like Wes Brown Jonny Evans and John O'shea were in the old days. He's capable of stepping in for injuries and suspensions and for squad rotation but I just don't think he should be a starter for us. Is he up there with the likes of Stam, Rio and Vidic?
The modern game is with centre halves who can play the ball out from the back, like it or not and he's not great at that.

Couldn't agree more. I dont think he is a top CB but defo during his time here he has proved to be a reliable player. How many goals has he cost us? Half of what Jones has for sure.
 
Couldn't agree more. I dont think he is a top CB but defo during his time here he has proved to be a reliable player. How many goals has he cost us? Half of what Jones has for sure.

I said in another post on here that I always feel Jones has a mistake in him. He's poor on the ball and and also poor defensively, his positioning is all over the place, got done positioning wise by hazard at the World Cup for Belgians second goal. What was that in the fa cup final as well? He should have been sent off as well as the penalty. He's the definition of dead wood
 
The common denominator overall remains Woody, he doesn't reside in Mqnchester, he is a sponsorship guru, is tasked with keeping the Glazers balance sheet and profits in order.

Seems incongruous that a club of our size struggles with completing signings, as I have indicated, he really doesn't inspire confidence in a role where particularly this off season we have been shown how to do it by Citeh and Liverpool. Identify targets to improve the team, sensible negotiations and sign them.

I’m sorry but absolutely not!

City have made on signing this summer and it’s taken three windows to land him. They also had a player apparently in the bag and lost him to Chelsea.

Liverpool signed a guy they couldn’t even bring in for a whole season, and failed in a January bid of an additional £10m to bring him in early. A player who they’d already bought. In January they had to pay an extra £15m for a player as hush money as they were being reported for tapping up. And that’s before we even talk about the Fekir debacle.

If United had been involved in even one of these incidents people would have lost the plot.

Honestly!
 
Arg why did my specific thread about transfer strategy get mushed in with this bollocks general discussion thread?
 


To the people that kept posting "look at the state of this thread" last week. Exhibit A though bloody Z. One more signing, likely magiure, and that's it.

100+ million spend on Fred and Maguire, no fix to LB or RW. HOORAY!!!:mad::rolleyes:
 
Yep, we will get Maguire and that's it imo. We will put all our money into him and sell Darmian and Rojo before Sep. Can't see anything else and Mourinho seems to have made peace with this.

Crap window for us tbh. Solved no issues at all. We had a promising start with Dalot and Fed and it looked like we will address our other options post WC but it turned ugly now. Don't understand the reason tbh.
 
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