Worst United I’ve Ever Seen

JoseM4 said:
Agreed. I’m getting tired of losing and am losing confidence in Amorim’s ability to turn things around.
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with the exception of Amad, would any of our wingers / forwards have an important role in any of the top 10 teams? Would they walk in the starting eleven of any of those teams? Would they move the needle?

Bruno is miles ahead of any other player, Ugarte is also significantly better than most in that space, but all in all our defensive unit isnt playing bad.
It's going forward we are really struggling, and it's very obvious the combo of wing backs, and forward simply isnt working.
We're all getting tired of loosing, but some of our forwards are so bad, we are paying them to play somewhere else. And this, i'm not putting on Ruben, it's our top of the class 'we can do things others only dream about' and '92m on Antony makes sense' group i'm annoyed with.

The season was a write off when ETH left. If we manage to win the FA Cup or do well in Europa we can probably be in a very good position next year.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Disagree

And you’re not taking into account how unbalanced the squad is

Ugarte, for example, might be decent on his own, and would be good for most other PL clubs, but there’s nobody to partner him at United where you’ll get the best out of him

Same as you’re never going to see the best of Mainoo or Garnacho while there’s nobody in the front 3 to compliment their talents
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Of course the squad is unbalanced - that can explain why we are far away from top-4 - but it does not explain why we are 20 points behind Forest. We have gone in the wrong direction with Amorim - and he cant put all that blame on everyone else. A great manager makes a team play better than the sum of its parts - Amorim hasn't done that yet.
 
Glorio said:
I'll say this - where teams are similar in level, a huge difference between them is usually the quality of the forwards. Back in the Fergie days, especially towards the end, we weren't playing everyone of the park, however, we usually had the best strike force, or at least one of the best around. This was even true but to a lesser extent during the best days of Ole's reign.

That did 2 things:
First, it kept teams honest while playing against us as they knew we'd ruthlessly punish any mistake. And so they were usually nervous when playing us.
Second, even in tight games, we normally walked away with the points because we had much better quality at both ends of the pitch than most opponents and took our chances better than other teams could manage. There were so many games where the opposition would feel hard done by because for all their endeavour, we'd quickly hit them with a couple of goals from nowhere and they'd just lose the will to fight.

This season in particular, we're usually at the other end of that equation :(
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It's not like repeating all things Fergie has done, even has ever done, will magically solve everything. Part of this taking close to 12 years now is because you can't simply repeat the same tricks and expect the same results.

Haaland isn't exactly keeping City on top at the moment. Perhaps you'll have a bigger shot at it as a counter based team with less quality in midfield but more in one or two up front, but nowadays it also says a lot that we basically need Licha to make his passes at his top level.

I do remember Fergie telling his players to see RvP's runs and they'll win, but unless you basically get Lamine... that's not the same safe bet it was... a long time ago now. And we do have Amad, while both Zirkzee and Hojlund are far from as bad as their current levels of confidence seem to suggest.
 
appleman said:
It's not like repeating all things Fergie has done, even has ever done, will magically solve everything. Part of this taking close to 12 years now is because you can't simply repeat the same tricks and expect the same results.

Haaland isn't exactly keeping City on top at the moment. Perhaps you'll have a bigger shot at it as a counter based team with less quality in midfield but more in one or two up front, but nowadays it also says a lot that we basically need Licha to make his passes at his top level.

I do remember Fergie telling his players to see RvP's runs and they'll win, but unless you basically get Lamine... that's not the same safe bet it was... a long time ago now. And we do have Amad, while both Zirkzee and Hojlund are far from as bad as their current levels of confidence seem to suggest.
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See Real Madrid and Liverpool the last few years. I'm not referring to one goal scorer, I'm talking about high quality attackers across the front. Even when their teams don't perform well, they still win games. It's massive weakness in this team.

Knowing what actually works (and it's not really rocket science) and replicating it is a great recipe for success. Having high quality attackers is not a trick, it's common sense.

In midfield between Ugarte, Mainoo, Bruno - that's not a bad midfield, I don't think. Apart from being light with Casemiro and Eriksen feeling the effects of age, player to player, it stacks up quite a bit when you compare it to other sides in the league. I'd say the same about the defence: Mazraoui, De Ligt, Maguire, Licha, Yoro, Dalot stack up against most defences in the league.

Now do the same with attackers. I genuinely reckon we're towards the bottom of the table in that measure!
 
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Watching the Madrid/City match yesterday, I got to pontificating on how many players Madrid have that if they were to come to United they'd immediately be the best player in the squad, and the answer is probably 10+ players, and that really puts into perspective how far we've fallen.
 
Well, what is the answer? Sack the new manager just like we`ve done since Sir Alex retired? United`s too deep in the nosedive to do that again as the solution. The long term solution is to look to the youth again but that`s going to take time and unfortunately Manchester United has turned into one of those once big now on the slide clubs that believe in the managerial merry go round when things go wrong.
 
Todd said:
Watching the Madrid/City match yesterday, I got to pontificating on how many players Madrid have that if they were to come to United they'd immediately be the best player in the squad, and the answer is probably 10+ players, and that really puts into perspective how far we've fallen.
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And after a few weeks we'd ruin them!
 
I became a Manchester United fan in the early 1990s when the club signed Peter Schmeichel and secured their first Premier League title under Sir Alex Ferguson. As a young football enthusiast, I was captivated by the magic of Old Trafford, the aura of the club, and the relentless spirit of the players. That era ignited a passion for United that has stayed with me ever since.
Growing up, I was fascinated by the stories of the Busby Babes—a group of incredibly talented and fearless young players nurtured by Sir Matt Busby, who tragically lost their lives in the Munich Air Disaster of 1958. That event could have shattered any club, but Manchester United rose from the ashes, embodying resilience and determination. This spirit culminated in the club's first European Cup triumph in 1968.

United’s identity has always been built on an attacking and entertaining style of play combined with a strong work ethic. It was a philosophy ingrained in the club from the youth academy to the senior team. It wasn't just about winning; it was about winning the United Way—with flair, courage, and hard work.
Fast forward to today, and it’s hard not to feel disillusioned as a fan. Despite spending hundreds of millions on transfers, the squad lacks the quality and cohesion we used to take pride in. The current manager, hailing from Portugal, appears to be trying to implement a tactical system that simply doesn’t suit the players at his disposal. The results? Frustrating inconsistency, underwhelming performances, and a lack of identity on the pitch.
Where is the United Way? The principles that once defined Manchester United feel like distant memories. The sense of unity, from the youth academy to the senior team and even the backroom staff, seems to have been replaced by a disconnected approach. It’s as if the soul of the club—the very ethos that used to be “written on the walls” of Old Trafford—is being lost.

As a lifelong fan, I hold onto hope that the club will rediscover its DNA. Manchester United is more than just a football club; it’s a legacy of resilience, attacking football, and unity. For us fans, the dream is not just to win—it’s to win the right way. The United Way.
And sadly, if you want to experience the United way, you can only do it on Youtube.

We’re in the process of replacing an entire squad that was bought extreme overpriced and built for a completely different system. We have FFP looming over us, and we can no longer attract the same pool of talent as we used to. If it turns out that Amorim isn’t the right man to take United back to the top of English football, we’ll once again be stuck with a squad built for a playing style that the next manager won’t implement. This could set us back another five years, and that would be a complete disaster.

The leadership keeps making mistake after mistake. Just when you think we’ve hit rock bottom, they manage to surprise us. They buy out Dan Ashworth, hire him, and sack him moments later. There are hundreds of examples of this lack of direction and the poor decision-making at United, which often seems driven by greedy agents and deals made behind the scenes with the leadership.
If you dig into the relationships between agents and United’s executives regarding recent transfers, there must be bribery involved. Deals like Højlund and Antony scream corruption. No sane person would approve such transfers without benefiting personally.

It’s five minutes to midnight for United. We MUST rediscover our DNA—The United Way, if anyone still remembers what that even is or understands what it means.
 
JoseM4 said:
Agreed. I’m getting tired of losing and am losing confidence in Amorim’s ability to turn things around.
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Already? Who do you think can come in and take United upwards in the short period of time you seem to require for United to start winning and winning well and looking capable of ascending the table and doing it consistently?

Louis Van Gaal, Jose Mourinho, Ollie and Ten Hag all won silverware and were sacked. United is marooned in mediocrity and is no nearer to the prospect of the title than it was under David Moyes. I don`t think there are coincidences here.
 
Yep, this is easily the worst we’ve ever been since I’ve been following in the 90’s. I can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel with Jim and the Glazers as owners either. I miss the days when we were the team everybody wanted to watch in the Champions League.
 
MUEricTheKing said:
I became a Manchester United fan in the early 1990s when the club signed Peter Schmeichel and secured their first Premier League title under Sir Alex Ferguson. As a young football enthusiast, I was captivated by the magic of Old Trafford, the aura of the club, and the relentless spirit of the players. That era ignited a passion for United that has stayed with me ever since.
Growing up, I was fascinated by the stories of the Busby Babes—a group of incredibly talented and fearless young players nurtured by Sir Matt Busby, who tragically lost their lives in the Munich Air Disaster of 1958. That event could have shattered any club, but Manchester United rose from the ashes, embodying resilience and determination. This spirit culminated in the club's first European Cup triumph in 1968.

United’s identity has always been built on an attacking and entertaining style of play combined with a strong work ethic. It was a philosophy ingrained in the club from the youth academy to the senior team. It wasn't just about winning; it was about winning the United Way—with flair, courage, and hard work.
Fast forward to today, and it’s hard not to feel disillusioned as a fan. Despite spending hundreds of millions on transfers, the squad lacks the quality and cohesion we used to take pride in. The current manager, hailing from Portugal, appears to be trying to implement a tactical system that simply doesn’t suit the players at his disposal. The results? Frustrating inconsistency, underwhelming performances, and a lack of identity on the pitch.
Where is the United Way? The principles that once defined Manchester United feel like distant memories. The sense of unity, from the youth academy to the senior team and even the backroom staff, seems to have been replaced by a disconnected approach. It’s as if the soul of the club—the very ethos that used to be “written on the walls” of Old Trafford—is being lost.

As a lifelong fan, I hold onto hope that the club will rediscover its DNA. Manchester United is more than just a football club; it’s a legacy of resilience, attacking football, and unity. For us fans, the dream is not just to win—it’s to win the right way. The United Way.
And sadly, if you want to experience the United way, you can only do it on Youtube.

We’re in the process of replacing an entire squad that was bought extreme overpriced and built for a completely different system. We have FFP looming over us, and we can no longer attract the same pool of talent as we used to. If it turns out that Amorim isn’t the right man to take United back to the top of English football, we’ll once again be stuck with a squad built for a playing style that the next manager won’t implement. This could set us back another five years, and that would be a complete disaster.

The leadership keeps making mistake after mistake. Just when you think we’ve hit rock bottom, they manage to surprise us. They buy out Dan Ashworth, hire him, and sack him moments later. There are hundreds of examples of this lack of direction and the poor decision-making at United, which often seems driven by greedy agents and deals made behind the scenes with the leadership.
If you dig into the relationships between agents and United’s executives regarding recent transfers, there must be bribery involved. Deals like Højlund and Antony scream corruption. No sane person would approve such transfers without benefiting personally.

It’s five minutes to midnight for United. We MUST rediscover our DNA—The United Way, if anyone still remembers what that even is or understands what it means.
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Alex Ferguson as he was then was brought in to instill discipline, a work ethic and a serious commitment to putting Manchester United back among the elites of English football. In Scotland his management of Aberdeen broke the monopoly of the Old Firm clubs of Celtic and Rangers.

His predecessor Big Ron Atkinson talked a good game, United were sometimes exciting to watch but there was a lack of seriousness about United`s definition of success under him. They didn`t win the old Premiership title and didn`t look like they were going to. There was a lax attitude to drinking before games and alcohol generally though that was also something that was more accepted among football clubs then.

Ferguson was given time by the board even though he had some sub standard results. He re-focused on developing young players and we saw the results with Beckham/the Nevilles/Scholes/Butt. Even though United was renowned for not splashing cash especially not on foreign players, those like Cantona, Berg, Ollie and Stam proved vital to United`s success under him. Roy Keane was the epitome of United`s will to win.

What distinguished Ferguson`s United was character and drive. As a sports journo once pointed out at a Premier League game of average importance, 5 minutes before the game finished Beckham and others were still playing as if their careers depended on it. The last European Cup winning team Ferguson built had players like Rio Ferdinand, one of the all time defensive greats in English football who could also have played midfield with his ball skills and was as much of a leader as Roy Keane but in a different way.

United have lost that. The teams assembled since Sir Alex left lack character though we`ve had youth players like Marcus Rashford and Jessie Lingard who did feel pride in playing for their own club and wanted badly to win despite the criticism flung their way. There`s been a leadership vacuum for the most part which players like Harry Maguire couldn`t fill although Ollie`s strategy of building a United that had a core of English players made the team look more like a team rather than a collection of players from all over the place.

And sacking Louis Van Gaal was wrong imo. I know plenty disagree but he won silverware, had brought a sense of purpose that was lackiing under David Moyes` perplexing regime - remember when David wanted the team to make was it 80 or 100 crosses a game? A lot of the moaning and whingeing about United under Van Gaal was to do with `boring football` but that could have changed if he`d been given the time.

Mourinho was brought in too late - should have come instead of Moyes - Ollie was a good temporary choice and should not have been made permanet so soon, had some bad tactical moments, could have been replaced and stayed on as assistant, then there was the temporary bloke whose name I forget who made some astute observations about what was going wrong with United but then went, then there was Ten Hag who again was assessed as being wrong for the club but not given enough time. Ruud Van N was a fantastic player for us like Ollie was but two weeks as caretaker manager is not enough to make a judgement on how he would have been over some months or a year.

And in all this players who had no sense of wanting really to play for United were recruited, too much money was given to players without the evidence that they deserved it, and the idea of gelling together and having a common club culture just fell by the wayside. And the same impatience that has seen a sack-happy approach is behind some of the poor decisions in recruitment. The new manager must be given time regardless of supporter whingeing about boredom or whatever - there will be no Manchester United revival for real without supporting the manager and giving them opportunities to get rid of mediocrity in its different forms.
 
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grahamo said:
We're a laughing stock. I'm sick of lesser teams coming to OT and winning then celebrating at the end like they've just won the world cup. It's completely unacceptable. How are those players OK with this?
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Barring Jonny Evans, how many of the current crop of players have any direct experience of teams being afraid to come to Old Trafford? They don't know any other version of the club except from stories and highlight reels.
 
We are one of the worst passing sides in the premier league in my opinion. We desperately need a Modric/Scholes style player in the middle of the park to dictate games and who is comfortable on the ball. Most teams that press us the players aren't good enough to deal with it. Watching that 50 passes before Arsenal scored against Man City just reminds me how bad our players are on the ball. Ugarte is decent in middle of the park but not good enough either to be starting week in week out for United. The likes of Declan Rice, Rodri, Gravenbach, Mcallister, Guimaraes, Caicedo are miles ahead of him, its not good enough to just be able to break up play, you need a lot more at a club like united.
Even looking Mcalllister and Robertson for Liverpool the fight they have in them is second to none, give 100% every match. Definitely the worst United I've ever seen.The strike force Ole had of Rashford Bruno Greenwood Cavani Sancho is miles ahead of where we are now.
 
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ryansgirl said:
Alex Ferguson as he was then was brought in to instill discipline, a work ethic and a serious commitment to putting Manchester United back among the elites of English football. In Scotland his management of Aberdeen broke the monopoly of the Old Firm clubs of Celtic and Rangers.

His predecessor Big Ron Atkinson talked a good game, United were sometimes exciting to watch but there was a lack of seriousness about United`s definition of success under him. They didn`t win the old Premiership title and didn`t look like they were going to. There was a lax attitude to drinking before games and alcohol generally though that was also something that was more accepted among football clubs then.

Ferguson was given time by the board even though he had some sub standard results. He re-focused on developing young players and we saw the results with Beckham/the Nevilles/Scholes/Butt. Even though United was renowned for not splashing cash especially not on foreign players, those like Cantona, Berg, Ollie and Stam proved vital to United`s success under him. Roy Keane was the epitome of United`s will to win.

What distinguished Ferguson`s United was character and drive. As a sports journo once pointed out at a Premier League game of average importance, 5 minutes before the game finished Beckham and others were still playing as if their careers depended on it. The last European Cup winning team Ferguson built had players like Rio Ferdinand, one of the all time defensive greats in English football who could also have played midfield with his ball skills and was as much of a leader as Roy Keane but in a different way.

United have lost that. The teams assembled since Sir Alex left lack character though we`ve had youth players like Marcus Rashford and Jessie Lingard who did feel pride in playing for their own club and wanted badly to win despite the criticism flung their way. There`s been a leadership vacuum for the most part which players like Harry Maguire couldn`t fill although Ollie`s strategy of building a United that had a core of English players made the team look more like a team rather than a collection of players from all over the place.

And sacking Louis Van Gaal was wrong imo. I know plenty disagree but he won silverware, had brought a sense of purpose that was lackiing under David Moyes` perplexing regime - remember when David wanted the team to make was it 80 or 100 crosses a game? A lot of the moaning and whingeing about United under Van Gaal was to do with `boring football` but that could have changed if he`d been given the time.

Mourinho was brought in too late - should have come instead of Moyes - Ollie was a good temporary choice and should not have been made permanet so soon, had some bad tactical moments, could have been replaced and stayed on as assistant, then there was the temporary bloke whose name I forget who made some astute observations about what was going wrong with United but then went, then there was Ten Hag who again was assessed as being wrong for the club but not given enough time. Ruud Van N was a fantastic player for us like Ollie was but two weeks as caretaker manager is not enough to make a judgement on how he would have been over some months or a year.

And in all this players who had no sense of wanting really to play for United were recruited, too much money was given to players without the evidence that they deserved it, and the idea of gelling together and having a common club culture just fell by the wayside. And the same impatience that has seen a sack-happy approach is behind some of the poor decisions in recruitment. The new manager must be given time regardless of supporter whingeing about boredom or whatever - there will be no Manchester United revival for real without supporting the manager and giving them opportunities to get rid of mediocrity in its different forms.
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Your analysis is spot on!
The only thing I would comment on, what indicates that Amorim is the right man to be given all the time it takes. I agree a manager needs to be almost unsackable for 5 years. But his filosofi has to align with the clubs dna. That’s where I’m concerned. And he hasn’t proven himself in the Premier League before.
I would rather give Thomas Frank, Thomas Tuchel, Nuno or Iraola 5 years than Amorim
 
Taking a somewhat contrary perspective, we're not as bad as our record indicates. But the record of wins and losses doesn't lie. But the margins between winning and losing the games we have lost is, for the most part not that great. But that incremental improvement we need to achieve is incredibly hard to achieve. A somewhat better keeper, an actual LB (LWB) and maybe we have one now, and an actual striker would have had us in the top 8. Top 8 is still an abomination, but a lot better than where we are now. But we are where we are now because of these glaring deficiencies which can be corrected and hopefully will be.
 
Don’t expect it to get better…. Amad out for season, Rasmussen can’t find net, mainoo out for a bit….dire straits….
 
I think the problem has always been with the Owners, pure rot for decades which has been papered over but is now beyond repair.
 
Agreed. I honestly don’t think it’ll change unless they finally sell the club or die. As long as they’re involved, we are an also ran.
 
It's sports, fellas. You're not always at the top of the mountain. If you want that, go support Madrid. Even the Yankees haven't won a ring since 2009.
 
With the latest injuries, and complete lack of squad depth, this is easily the weakest United squad in my 3.5 decades supporting the club. What makes it more galling is the amount of money spent on players who are either too old, absolute shite, always injured, or a combination of all three.

I'm not old enough to remember the 70s and 80s so I'll let older fans judge on that.

Over the last decade, Everton have skirted close to relegation a few times but honestly, our squad right now is not that much stronger than their's were. We might just about stay clear of relegation this season because Southampton, Leicester and Ipswich are so weak and too far behind, but if we f**k up the next transfer window and bring in more shite and crocks, don't delude yourselves into thinking we couldn't become the new Everton and get dragged into it.
 
MUEricTheKing said:
Your analysis is spot on!
The only thing I would comment on, what indicates that Amorim is the right man to be given all the time it takes. I agree a manager needs to be almost unsackable for 5 years. But his filosofi has to align with the clubs dna. That’s where I’m concerned. And he hasn’t proven himself in the Premier League before.
I would rather give Thomas Frank, Thomas Tuchel, Nuno or Iraola 5 years than Amorim
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Thanks, appreciate that. Some posters on here have always taken the mickey out of posters who write `essays` but as you know, sometimes to put across a perspective and give reasons for it takes longer.

I agree with your points on the manager reminding me that Amorim hasn`t managed in the Premier League - neither had Alex Ferguson, Louis Van Gaal and Ten Haag but those were different contexts and of course Van Gaal and Ten Haag were sacked despite delivering silverware. The alternative names you mentioned would seem to have better prospects of dealing with the instability at the club from the head down.

I disagreed with the Van Gaal sacking which led to so much more instability and it also played to the demand for exciting football a la the days under Sir Alex when we had the players capable of overcoming other teams` defensive formations including in Europe. Van Gaal was employed in the aftermath of a high level of success with the blip on the radar being David Moyes with his preoccupations like getting rid of chips eating and crossing the ball as many times as the players could in a match. Players who`d been mainstays of success were older and the team needed some re-building.

Louis VG I think would have re-established some level of United`s success but was not given the time because of some of his tactics and the whingeing of players who had become too used to a certain environment at the club and ways of doing things. I think the fans became spoiled by the mega success in the Ferguson era and I think Louis would have made the United team a more attacking one again given time.
 
redNATION said:
It’s going to have to be drastic, like selling most of the squad - Rashford, Hjolund, Zirkzee, Casemiro, Garnacho, Mount, Martinez, Onana, Dalot, Malacia.

From that, we need to buy essentially a first class 11, forget about back up or bench players for the moment. I think this is really the only way to turn the tide, the rot has gone on for too long and it needs to ripped up and started again.
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How do they plan on getting better players than the ones they are selling, but buying them at cheaper prices? When has that ever worked? How would that even work? Think clubs are just going to cut prices for us when they can sell to the next club for far more?

Our 30 full time scouts and 50 part time scouts are getting culled as we speak. Those guys thought some of these donkeys were the ticket, and now we are going to have about half the scouting manpower. It’s going to take a group of 5 or 6 wonderboys from the academy all stepping up at the same time.

But if Amorim can’t coach what were recently a top 10 side to be better than where we are, how does anyone think he’s going to take worse players and play better football?

We will sell our decent players then go buy Aldi versions of them who still can’t play Amorimball, he’ll get the sack, and we go round again.
 
It's pretty bad. This season will hopefully be the low point though. After a summer window and lots of time on training, next season we need to start seeing clear signs of progress.
 
Desert Eagle said:
It's pretty bad. This season will hopefully be the low point though. After a summer window and lots of time on training, next season we need to start seeing clear signs of progress.
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We have no funds to buy in the summer window unless we sell...
And no-one will buy overpaid non performing players so we are stuck.
 
We are still one of the biggest spenders in the league yet today, our starting 11 will probably have 3/4 good/decent PL standard players and the rest will be relegation standard.
If we were starting the season today, we would be among the favourites to go down.
Coupled with the worse timed manager appointment imaginable, we are deep in the shit.
I’d rather get relegated this season than drag it out all next season. Could force the Glazers to sell and we would at least be competitive in the Championship with a different manager.
 
Desert Eagle said:
It's pretty bad. This season will hopefully be the low point though. After a summer window and lots of time on training, next season we need to start seeing clear signs of progress.
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Lots of time on the plane and recovering from the jetlag and time difference.

Where are we going this summer to "train"?
 
Unam333 said:
Lots of time on the plane and recovering from the jetlag and time difference.

Where are we going this summer to "train"?
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They'll be flying private and travelling at most 3-4 days out of a couple months. I'd expect professional athletes to figure it out.
 
ryansgirl said:
Alex Ferguson as he was then was brought in to instill discipline, a work ethic and a serious commitment to putting Manchester United back among the elites of English football. In Scotland his management of Aberdeen broke the monopoly of the Old Firm clubs of Celtic and Rangers.

His predecessor Big Ron Atkinson talked a good game, United were sometimes exciting to watch but there was a lack of seriousness about United`s definition of success under him. They didn`t win the old Premiership title and didn`t look like they were going to. There was a lax attitude to drinking before games and alcohol generally though that was also something that was more accepted among football clubs then.

Ferguson was given time by the board even though he had some sub standard results. He re-focused on developing young players and we saw the results with Beckham/the Nevilles/Scholes/Butt. Even though United was renowned for not splashing cash especially not on foreign players, those like Cantona, Berg, Ollie and Stam proved vital to United`s success under him. Roy Keane was the epitome of United`s will to win.

What distinguished Ferguson`s United was character and drive. As a sports journo once pointed out at a Premier League game of average importance, 5 minutes before the game finished Beckham and others were still playing as if their careers depended on it. The last European Cup winning team Ferguson built had players like Rio Ferdinand, one of the all time defensive greats in English football who could also have played midfield with his ball skills and was as much of a leader as Roy Keane but in a different way.

United have lost that. The teams assembled since Sir Alex left lack character though we`ve had youth players like Marcus Rashford and Jessie Lingard who did feel pride in playing for their own club and wanted badly to win despite the criticism flung their way. There`s been a leadership vacuum for the most part which players like Harry Maguire couldn`t fill although Ollie`s strategy of building a United that had a core of English players made the team look more like a team rather than a collection of players from all over the place.

And sacking Louis Van Gaal was wrong imo. I know plenty disagree but he won silverware, had brought a sense of purpose that was lackiing under David Moyes` perplexing regime - remember when David wanted the team to make was it 80 or 100 crosses a game? A lot of the moaning and whingeing about United under Van Gaal was to do with `boring football` but that could have changed if he`d been given the time.

Mourinho was brought in too late - should have come instead of Moyes - Ollie was a good temporary choice and should not have been made permanet so soon, had some bad tactical moments, could have been replaced and stayed on as assistant, then there was the temporary bloke whose name I forget who made some astute observations about what was going wrong with United but then went, then there was Ten Hag who again was assessed as being wrong for the club but not given enough time. Ruud Van N was a fantastic player for us like Ollie was but two weeks as caretaker manager is not enough to make a judgement on how he would have been over some months or a year.

And in all this players who had no sense of wanting really to play for United were recruited, too much money was given to players without the evidence that they deserved it, and the idea of gelling together and having a common club culture just fell by the wayside. And the same impatience that has seen a sack-happy approach is behind some of the poor decisions in recruitment. The new manager must be given time regardless of supporter whingeing about boredom or whatever - there will be no Manchester United revival for real without supporting the manager and giving them opportunities to get rid of mediocrity in its different forms.
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Park Life!
 
soapythecat said:
We are still one of the biggest spenders in the league yet today, our starting 11 will probably have 3/4 good/decent PL standard players and the rest will be relegation standard.
If we were starting the season today, we would be among the favourites to go down.
Coupled with the worse timed manager appointment imaginable, we are deep in the shit.
I’d rather get relegated this season than drag it out all next season. Could force the Glazers to sell and we would at least be competitive in the Championship with a different manager.
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Soapy, I hate to break it to you but we would get our asses kicked in the championship, if we continue to play as we are. All of our decent players must have emergency exits built into their contracts. The loss of TV money, sponsorship deals being called off, and missing out on Europe would put a massive crimp into our rebuilding plans, and might just send us into a death spiral.
 
It’s been a whirlpool of team destruction since the Glazers took the control using Utd as their tool to fund the purchase, installing hooray Henry’s to run the club, prepared to sign players for social media likes and pay outrageous wages to prove how big they were ( not the club).

Finally the necessary sh*tstorm has arrived , saved a little by individual performances and now one of the better young managers has to stem the tide from bad and lengthy overpaid signings in the most competitive league in the world. Not an easy task while Woodward and the Glazers sit back and count their money, and SJR has to commence big difference making cuts to get financial stability into the joint and try to meet the specific requirements to enable some spending to improve the team.

How did th EPL allow that takeover to occur, they were simply blindsided by Woodward and his merchant bank cronies, and saw the basically richest , self funded club in the world screwed over by a coterie of American shopping mall owners. Now they are be8ng outmanoeuvred by Middle East oil funded owners who have deep enough pockets to take them on.

Basically a lot of fans are still there but are switching off until things start to turn around, it’s a bit depressing at the moment.
 
There are no repairs available to our present predicament until the hierarchy are removed from their lofty positions. That means the Glazers and INEOS have to go and ASAP. The Glazers only care about lining their pockets whilst Ratcliffe thinks running a football club is akin to running a Chemical Company. I stopped attending Utd matches the moment the Glazers moved in and I was disappointed when INEOS won the battle with the Saudi Prince which left us with two problems at once. The greedy, couldn’t care less Americans, and the incompetent INEOS band, who are running around saving pennies sacking staff when we need billions to put this right. You could make an excellent comedy of this whole shambles if it were not so serious!
Sadly, I can see no end to the situation as both these parties are arrogant in their stance and there is no way of changing the situation until they all die off. Unfortunately I will probably go before that happens but I cannot see a way out of our predicament other than constant protest from the fans and even action and disruption caused by them. Now that would get me out and about OT again.
 
So now we're praising Moyes for the Everton revival and criticising Amorim for United's travails.

Do we want to just employ a relegation battle specialist like Big Sam or Sean Dyche just to stay in the PL?

Or do you want the 'open heart surgery' that Ragnick spoke of? The thing with open heart surgery is - things can go catastrophically wrong if it isn't successful. It's a high risk operation. I'm with Amorim no matter how painful it gets or how long it takes. Perfectly willing to stomach a few bad seasons, as long as the guy is cutting the cancer out from the club.
 
The scariest part is yet to come I think.

I'm not saying it'll happen, but I can imagine in years to come people asking the question "how on earth did United get relegated in 2025?"

I mean, we're currently an incredibly poor side, with huge defensive issues, no midfield to speak of, and no threat up front.

We've been scoring precious few goals, and have made the decision mid-season to move on two of our only attacking options without replacing them. Naturally Amad (literally our only attacking threat) is out for the season.

This feels like the 'perfect storm' to drag us at least into a relegation scrap, and with the players we currently have, would you bet on us in such a scrap?
 
I still don't think even this team can get themselves relegated bad and all as they are , luckily there are at least 3 or 4 teams that are far worse than even us.

But if by some chance we were to get pulled into a realistic relegation battle I can't think of any group of players that I would least like to have my hopes on , mentality midgets is too mild a description.
 
This is all part of the plan.

Run it all into the ground, let it rot.

Allow the media to pile on a daily helping of misery, with no riposte.

Why?

So INEOS can come in with a low ball offer for the club.

The 5bn that Qatar offered is a pipe dream now.
 
We lack a critical mass of world class players in the 23-30 year old range and have further handicapped a team struggling to make and put away chances by adopting a system with one fewer attacker and one more defender.
 
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