Neville but not Irwin seems bizarre. Not sure about Carrick - excellent player but perhaps just a level below. Yorke certainly was for several seasons but didn't seem like he sustained it. I didn't watch him but I imagine Bryan Robson should be on that list.
World Class players under Alex Ferguson
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Giggs was never world class for me. Pushing there and off course being our poster boy and idol at that time.
Evra wasna very good player.
I never had the chance to watch Irwin at his prime so I cant comment on that.
Yorke and Cole have a world class sesson but by themselves they're far from world class imo
Real Madrid wanted Evra. He was definitely world-class.
Yup.
he might have world class moments but doesn't mean he is a WC player.
need to define what's world class, if not every tom dick and harry is also world class players.
The thing is Fergie made world class players. Didn’t buy them.
Van Persie, though.
Carrick is nowhere near that list. Every single player bar Carrick walked into their national team. You can argue Cantona but that was purely disciplinary issues, Carrick was ability issues.
Ince under Fergie was world class if what is on your list is world class. He was a force of nature. The driving force of the team for 3/4 years.
Irwin deserves to be on the list although I feel he’s vastly overrated, he was very good for a long time. If Neville’s there Irwin must be. Evra too.
Hughes is also a shout. He was such a brilliant player.
Ince under Fergie was world class if what is on your list is world class. He was a force of nature. The driving force of the team for 3/4 years.
Irwin deserves to be on the list although I feel he’s vastly overrated, he was very good for a long time. If Neville’s there Irwin must be. Evra too.
Hughes is also a shout. He was such a brilliant player.
Schmeichel and VDS both World Class 'keepers.
Stam, Rio, Vidic, Irwin and Evra World Class defenders. Neville was very good but not top, top drawer. McGrath was a Worldie too, not sure how many would agree but he was an unbelievable defender and often forgotten about.
Robson, Keane, Scholes in centre mid. Carrick and Ince were like Neville, very good but not World Class. Beckham, Giggs, Ronaldo out wide.
RVN, Eric and Rooney up front. I loved Hughes but he falls just short of World Class for me. Yorke, Cole, Teddy, and Tevez the same.
Ultimately it depends on what your definition of world class is. Fergie said himself he only had 4 in his whole time at United, so clearly he had the highest of high standards.
Stam, Rio, Vidic, Irwin and Evra World Class defenders. Neville was very good but not top, top drawer. McGrath was a Worldie too, not sure how many would agree but he was an unbelievable defender and often forgotten about.
Robson, Keane, Scholes in centre mid. Carrick and Ince were like Neville, very good but not World Class. Beckham, Giggs, Ronaldo out wide.
RVN, Eric and Rooney up front. I loved Hughes but he falls just short of World Class for me. Yorke, Cole, Teddy, and Tevez the same.
Ultimately it depends on what your definition of world class is. Fergie said himself he only had 4 in his whole time at United, so clearly he had the highest of high standards.
There weren't actually that many. If you ask me, the only objectively world class players we had under Fergie (around 1994 onwards, I was too young to remember Robson, Ince and others at their peak) were Keane, Scholes, Becks, Stam, Rio, Edwin, RvN, Ronaldo and Rooney.
Young, Ballon d'Or winning Michael Owen was absolutely world class and he did play for us under Fergie. Does he count?
Well, was he ever the best player in his position even in the Premier League? As I said, even in his ultimate season, the season before we bought RVP, RVP was outperforming him for Arsenal. In the trio of him, Ronaldo and Tevez, Ronaldo was clearly superior, and there is an argument on who was better, Tevez or Rooney. Playing as a midfielder, he was never world class. He could ping a long ball well enough, but not at the level of Scholes for instance. He worked hard, but is that enough for a world class player? I think he had world class potential, but I would also argue that he may have wasted it a little - great player, but just lacking a little to ever be world class.
He was never top scorer in the Premier League - RVP, Ronaldo and Berbatov managed that, but he is high on assists and did contribute in the general play more than most. However, in terms of general play, he was always prone to purple patches. He was absolutely brilliant for a few months, then would fade away, hardly scoring and giving the ball away recklessly.
We all know roughly what constitute a world class, most of us here gave roughly the same answer.
For me it's being able to get into top 10 teams starting XI at their era
Overall I agree that Cole was better than yorke.but the 99 season for Yorke was better than anyone hint Cole produced for us. People often say Beckham could have won balon d'or that season but Yorke was criminally overlooked.
Some of these definitions are extremely broad and seems to interpret 'world class' as being the same as 'did well for us'
You're taking it to extremes here. At their very peak-
Schmeichel wasn't one of the best GKs in the world? Giggs as a left winger? Vidic? Evra?
Agree that players like Neville, Irwin, Cole, Yorke, Carrick.... while being great servants for us, weren't top-tier players.
Nobody cut from right and bust the shins of the first defender with the ball like him though. The regress was remarkable at the last few seasons.
Would you call Rashford as world class?
Obviously not.
Schmeichel's name escaped me, yeah, he's universally regarded as world class and I should have had his name on that list.
As for the rest of the greats, and this includes the likes of Cantona (though his impact for us was world class), Giggs and Vidic especially, without downplaying their contribution to our club judging purely as footballers I just don't think they ever belonged in the highest tier. In my book they were always a level below world class even at their respective peaks.
Goalkeepers:
Schmeichel
Van der Sar
Defenders:
Stam
Vidic
Ferdinand
Irwin
Midfielders:
Beckham
Scholes
Keane
Giggs
Forwards:
Ronaldo
Rooney
Cantona
Van Nistelrooy
Yorke (for one season)
Van Persie (for one season)
Schmeichel
Van der Sar
Defenders:
Stam
Vidic
Ferdinand
Irwin
Midfielders:
Beckham
Scholes
Keane
Giggs
Forwards:
Ronaldo
Rooney
Cantona
Van Nistelrooy
Yorke (for one season)
Van Persie (for one season)
The bolded ones.
pretty much. So long as utd legend/SAF said so or you did well for United in the league, you are world class. I've always felt the Caf was the place where World Class status gets watered down the most in football over any other sport but then I see it in British punditry also so maybe its a culture thing?
Maybe it's a United fan thing too. It's the same with youth prospects. As soon as a 9 year old proves be can kick a ball in a straight line there's the expectation we probably won't be buying a right back in the next few years so as not to block what's seen as his inevitable path into the first team
He has longevity on his side as he was a very consistent performer for over a decade but was never outstanding. Walker and Azpilecueta are/were better players.
For a good chunk of Sir Alex Ferguson’s time, the Premier League was behind some of the other big leagues financially.
I have to be slightly vague, as it was a while ago. But it, at one point, was challenging to get world-class players into the league.
Even around 99 we were still below other top European clubs financially. I remember when we wanted to buy Batistuta and just could not match his wages and Roy Keane’s new £50k a week contract (to stop him going to Juventus) being a big thing for the club.
I have to be slightly vague, as it was a while ago. But it, at one point, was challenging to get world-class players into the league.
Even around 99 we were still below other top European clubs financially. I remember when we wanted to buy Batistuta and just could not match his wages and Roy Keane’s new £50k a week contract (to stop him going to Juventus) being a big thing for the club.
Carrick would be one of the best midfielders at the moment and would easily get in every team in the world.
Aye, the wisdom of the national team manager is a good barometer for judging a player's ability. Roy Hodgson picked Lescott over Ferdinand in his Euro 2012 squad, so that confirms who was the better CB. Sven picked Gerrard and Lampard over Scholes in 2004, prompting Scholes to retire from international football at the age of 29. I guess that means he was finished as a player by then.
I didn't get to see a lot of 90s players in their prime so I'd say Keane, rio, Ronaldo, Rooney, vidic and evra. The two Dutch man van der sar are borderline, van nistelrooy was the second best striker in the league behind Henry but it was a big gap, and there were other strikers around Europe better as well. I'd say a definition of world class and not everyone will agree, is probably top 5 in the world in your given position. That's just generally though, obviously there can be periods of time where certain positions just happen to have loads of class players and even the top 10 in that position could be world class, or others like goalkeeper right now, where you might struggle to say there's more than 3 or 4 world class keepers
Guess you're in the minority here.
Seems like you're referencing a lot of his last years like RVP, him playing deeper in central midfield, etc.
Just because he played 2nd fiddle to another world class player like Ronaldo doesn't make him a worse player.
You don't become United and England's highest scorer without being class, in addition to not being an out and out striker.
But don't listen to me, just read the other comments.
YES!
While Carrick was indeed not world class as many have already said it here, England managers’ judgement was/is hardly the benchmark for player quality. England usually didn’t even rate Scholes highly and didn’t know how to use him.
When Spain was winning tournaments Xabi Alonso suggested Carrick as a midfield option for England but of course the managers didn’t listen.
As many have said Irwin, also Hughes, Kanchelkis, Bruce/Palister , Cole , Robson.
SAF didn’t have many superstars. But I think more players than we realise were WC or performed at a WC level.
SAF didn’t have many superstars. But I think more players than we realise were WC or performed at a WC level.
Doesn’t look like you had a chance to watch Evra in his prime either.
‘wasna very good player’
Imagine not saying Vidic was world class.
Twice FIFA Team of the Year, 3-time ESM team of the year, 4-time Premier League team of the year, twice Premier League player of the season (as CB no less). Voted best team of the first 20 years of the Premier League.
The majority isn’t always right. He was never top scorer in the league, not even as a striker. He was never the best player in the team. He was definitely not as good as Ronaldo. Great player but not world class.
Ferguson realises that the best players are forwards. He just has higher standards for world class than we do. Bit surprised he didn't name Rooney as well.
Your argument is somewhat contradictory given you added Scholes in your list. When was Scholes ever the best midfielder in the league over the course of a whole season? Rooney he probably had a season or two where he was closer to being the best player in the league than Scholes was.
Both were world class though.
No he wouldn’t get into the City side.